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France Radicalism and Europe's relationship with islam(Macron - Erdogan, Nice and Vienna attacks)

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter


alcohol is haram.. so lets bomb the alcohol shops. takebeerrr
allah at that right moment when alko7oul is bombed


 

agnostic

Legendary Member
Yeah well next time, let the Orcs file a complaint against the person they're accusing of exposing nude or whatever's crime, instead of beheading him.

What I'm shocked of is the global reaction of muslim politicians and religious figures against France whereas what France is trying to do is to (i) safeguard its system and way of life and (ii) help its muslim nationals to be part of this system (by struggling against foreign interferences).

There are countries protesting against France that apply death penalty against people who decide to leave their muslim faith. Where building places of cult - whether Christian churches or any other religion - is forbidden or subject to a special permit. Where women are not even free to dress the way they want to. Etc. etc. etc.

We are having a deaf dialog. SHN made an appeasement speech and suggested solution to the current problem between France and the Muslims over the world. Also Sayyed Ali Khamenei asked questions. But France is ignoring them.

For the points enlisted above:

i. It is France's full right to do whatever it considers good for its system and way of life. But it is also the right of Moslem peoples to boycott France if they want, in particular when France makes an obsession to impede Moslem women from wearing veil or when France displays caricatures of the Prophet at the facade of public buildings or shows them to schoolchildren.

ii. France and Europe in general have problems with the Muslims there. It is the responsibility of the rulers of these countries to solve these problems. IMHO the authorities of France and Europe have never had the will to solve these problems that are a time bomb, becoming bigger day after day.

iii. Arab and Moslem countries being bad doesn't change anything to point i
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
this your chance Rafidi, she said enno 7erdani, you can go console her ;)

Dont worry much. She's already on my lap as I type this post. She says hi.

What does 7erdani mean? Sometimes you guys type words that make me wonder if it is the same language we speak.😄 Each village in Lebanon has it's own peculiar words and slang, it seems.
 

elias-aj

Legendary Member
We are having a deaf dialog. SHN made an appeasement speech and suggested solution to the current problem between France and the Muslims over the world. Also Sayyed Ali Khamenei asked questions. But France is ignoring them.

For the points enlisted above:

i. It is France's full right to do whatever it considers good for its system and way of life. But it is also the right of Moslem peoples to boycott France if they want, in particular when France makes an obsession to impede Moslem women from wearing veil or when France displays caricatures of the Prophet at the facade of public buildings or shows them to schoolchildren.

ii. France and Europe in general have problems with the Muslims there. It is the responsibility of the rulers of these countries to solve these problems. IMHO the authorities of France and Europe have never had the will to solve these problems that are a time bomb, becoming bigger day after day.

iii. Arab and Moslem countries being bad doesn't change anything to point i

It is indeed a deaf dialog.

In reality, there's no problem between France and its system, on the one side, and the people who happen to be muslims, on the other side.

1. The French legislation and the French courts of law and tribunals don't consider that making and displaying caricatures of the Prophet (or Jesus Christ or any Religion) is a crime, in principle. The principle is the freedom of speech, which includes the right to criticize and also to caricature, within the limits set by the French law.

What could be morally wrong for some people, is not necessarily unlawful. Being rude, crude, trashy is not a sufficient reason to justify a legal condemnation (unless when directly insulting people).

There's nothing any French politician can do against this, unless initiating a legislative (and even a constitutionnal) reform, that wouldn't be tolerated nor welcomed by anyone here.

2. When a magazine displays religious caricatures, it's not France displaying those caricatures, but the magazine. It is always possible to sue the magazine if ever the caricatures could be considered off-limits.

3. All women can dress the way they like in France. There are veiled women everywhere. There are restrictions only in state-owned institutions (public schools, public administrations...) or out of security reasons (ie to identify people).

4. If people are unhappy with France, and want to boycott French products, they're of course free to do it. What they're not free to do though is to threaten French people and approving the heinous acts that happened.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Dont worry much. She's already on my lap as I type this post. She says hi.

What does 7erdani mean? Sometimes you guys type words that make me wonder if it is the same language we speak.😄 Each village in Lebanon has it's own peculiar words and slang, it seems.

Aywa, awya... RAfidi is on fire :D

how are able to speak with her if you don't know her language ???
she said ... هيدا حرية تعتير، ويسمحولنا نِحرد!
7erdani, ye3ni ze3lani
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Aywa, awya... RAfidi is on fire :D

how are able to speak with her if you don't know her language ???
she said ... هيدا حرية تعتير، ويسمحولنا نِحرد!
7erdani, ye3ni ze3lani
أخذي على خاطرها
plutot no?
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Well, I don’t think the American public in general would be okay with lecturers showing images of nude peoples to underage children.

Now that I care, I’m just using their own logic against them.

"showing images of nude peoples to underage children" - is that what we are discussing?
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Aywa, awya... RAfidi is on fire :D

how are able to speak with her if you don't know her language ???
she said ... هيدا حرية تعتير، ويسمحولنا نِحرد!
7erdani, ye3ni ze3lani

Oh! I didnt realize you referring to her use of the word "n7arred". The way you twisted n7arred to 7erdani was confusing.

When you typed 7erdani, Assaad Hardan came to my mind 🤦‍♂️
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Oh, I didn’t I invent the teacher showing images of nude individuals to underage children. That actually happened.

Maybe (and this should be looked into in it's own right), but was this subject of our discussion or you just dragged it in desperate attempt to make your point stick.
 

HalaMadrid

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
Your questions are based on either the assumption or implication that we support the beheadings or violence in France or we are justifying it. We are not. I am not. SHN did not either. So no one is justifying anything here. The only ones justifying anything are people like you who deem rudeness and hate speech as freedom of speech.
My questions are not based on the implication or assumption that you're supporting the beheadings. They are based on the explicit justifications that you're making. "I condemn and abhor the beheadings, but..." is a justification. Full stop. That doesn't mean I think you support them, that means I think you're saying "elli bi de2 el beb byisma3 el jaweb" that's justifying.
I see no reason why you must disrespect my beliefs and try to draw distinction between what I I sacred and I identify I with and my person as a Muslim. When you disrespect my beliefs, you are holding me in contempt. My identity becomes the target. If I were a Jew, France would have arrested the perpetrators for antisemitism. Just like so many have been arrested in France for expressing themselves and labelled antisemites.
Again, you're personalizing it and making it so that cartoons that are out there in the world are a personal attack on you. There is a distinction between someone ridiculing YOU and someone ridiculing an idea.
Dieudonné M'bala, a comedian was given a jail sentence for antisemitism. No one cared about his right to free speech then.
Yeah, I think this is dumb too. There are ways to change that that happen to not involve more restrictions on speech and justifying violence. This also was countered by MANY examples of public caricaturing of Jewish beliefs that were posted here just a few pages ago.
So many historical facts are contested. Muslims believe Jesus was not crucified. Is France going to pass a law banning the questioning of the so called crucifixion? Of course, France will not. I don't question the fact that Jews suffered due to fascism. But if you dare question the 6 million figure, you have committed a crime. Is that what freedom of speech is to you? By the way, you have inflated the figure to 12 million. That may either be antitseimitsm or pro Jewish Extra!!! What if I believe and can prove that 5,999,999 Jews were killed and not exactly 6 million?

Why dont you give the holocaust the same treatment you want to give Muslims? You say there is a distinction between questioning an idea and hate speech. Why is questioning an idea (the holocaust) forbidden and regarded as hate speech in this case?
Millions of non-Jews were also killed by the Nazis. See why Europe needs to have laws about this so that people who grew up in Europe know basic historical facts about the systemic and purposeful extermination of millions on their soil 80 years ago and those aren't completely obfuscated? The Holocaust isn't an "idea" lol. See how you're conflating things?
So why cant you do the same for Muslims? You cant deny Muslims are disrespected in the West or that there is Islamophobia.
Of course you can't deny that *Muslims* are discriminated against in the west, but *Islam* can't be discriminated against. A woman being harassed or ridiculed on a bus for wearing hijab in which her safety and bodily integrity is compromised or a man being constantly sent for "secondary screening" in airports based on his name, is extremely different from a magazine cartoon.
And by the same, I very much believe religious symbols should be banned on public or govt places. You can have them on your body. But not on govt buildings or in public schools and the likes.
Yes, agree with this.
 
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