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Real-estate troubles

Indie

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This risk is everywhere not only in Bsaba. However zoning is much better there and it will never be overpopulated like in Hadath or Ain L Remmane.
Have you been to Hazmieh lately? You feel in some streets that you got lost in Dahieh, noting that cost in Hazmieh is x3 the cost of Bsaba.

Moreover non Christians are not allowed to buy properties there. Which I find sectarian ( But out of Subject)
Yes I Know what Hazmieh is like. And I worry that more and more places will become the same.
 
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    freemind

    Well-Known Member
    Hi,

    Major line everybody is missing here, is that prices have not dropped, are not dropping and will not drop, there is no such thing as bubble effect. At this point in our economical history it is not feasible, the Central bank has the back of the real estate sector, and worst that can happen, demand will lessen, new projects will become lesser, and that's where it ends. Talk of a bubble burst is wishful thinking, why hasn't it happened since 2011? its known the sector has been witnessing the same recession, has anything changed since then? enlighten me.

    The only piece of news is that the Iskan is out of money, and this is no more than a mismanagement issue, that will eminently be solved as soon as the new government is formed, rest assured. Many politicians have shown certainty in that regards.

    Something to ponder on though, are real estate developers really able or not able to drop prices? if they are why have they not done so yet? If they have not because they already are at loss, we'll feel sorry for them. But if they are simply refusing because there indeed still exists some demand, and they are into some mafia-like agreement to keep the prices at top no matter what, then we'll have to cope with that, or look for another country to live in. Cause we've only seen La7m b3ajin. Then this story of land being costly reason why price of apartments will not drop is a fabrication, its a known fact that prices are interrelated you cannot separate demand for land from that of apartments, real estate is real estate, if land is becoming less then so will the space to build new apartments too.

    Truth is people have been living and accommodating, its in our nature to brag. A certain momentum that has built up for years brought us onto this situation in real estate, it has become very tough to own a house in Lebanon, face it. Someone that has taken a loan of 100K some years ago, is in-debit for the next 30 years, you cannot tell him his property has suddenly depreciated while its still on mortgage. You are talking of the vast majority of Lebanese here, as much as i would like such a scenario to take place, but this will cause mayhem, worse than when the Lira crashed in the 80's.

    If anyone has some crude assertion that i should expect a crash in prices, let me know, our debates in Lebanon have become for entertainment, there is a sense of in-vain people got used to. You know nothing is changing yet you are fine with it.
     
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    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    is Hazmieh that crowded?
    It pretty bad. You could be living in a pretty nice apartment, but your view is basically the neighboors across the street...


    They will show you pictures like this...


    But neither they or the municipality own the extra land, to keep it green. It will be built on by other speculators. So you end up with this...


    They don't leave any space between the buildings and the road, to plant anything...



    It's concrete piled on top of concrete. The buildings are very close to each other. And when you drive up or down the main road there, you can see how forests have disappeared to make way for buildings...






    Whatever spots of green are left will disappear soon, as more and more buildings go up...
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    It pretty bad. You could be living in a pretty nice apartment, but your view is basically the neighboors across the street...


    They will show you pictures like this...


    But neither they or the municipality own the extra land, to keep it green. It will be built on by other speculators. So you end up with this...


    They don't leave any space between the buildings and the road, to plant anything...



    It's concrete piled on top of concrete. The buildings are very close to each other. And when you drive up or down the main road there, you can see how forests have disappeared to make way for buildings...






    Whatever spots of green are left will disappear soon, as more and more buildings go up...
    l 3ama wlo. This is like a christian dahiye.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Also...there is no urbanism implemented whatsoever...nothing is done to make the roads and public spaces at least somewhat easthetically pleasing, or to offer people some public spaces to enjoy. If you're not in your house, your car, or in a business premise, there is not even a sidewalk for you to be on...





    The whole area is just an extention of Beirut...minus the convenience of being in the city proper...

     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    It pretty bad. You could be living in a pretty nice apartment, but your view is basically the neighboors across the street...


    They will show you pictures like this...


    But neither they or the municipality own the extra land, to keep it green. It will be built on by other speculators. So you end up with this...


    They don't leave any space between the buildings and the road, to plant anything...



    It's concrete piled on top of concrete. The buildings are very close to each other. And when you drive up or down the main road there, you can see how forests have disappeared to make way for buildings...






    Whatever spots of green are left will disappear soon, as more and more buildings go up...
    Haizmieh municipality is the most crooked nepotist thing in lebanon, b houtoulo wezek lal istiz bet asmar
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    l 3ama wlo. This is like a christian dahiye.
    Basically...

    And it's not an isolated case. Many Christian areas are like this now, or on the verge of it.

    The whole coast from Bourj Hammoud to Jounieh. All around the road from Antelias to Bikfaya. And some other areas as well.
     
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    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Haizmieh municipality is the most crooked nepotist thing in lebanon, b houtoulo wezek lal istiz bet asmar
    Unfortunately, they are not alone.

    If this doesn't stop, the green hills of Lebanon will be like the ones in Jordan.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    Basically...

    And it's not an isolate case. Many Christian areas are like this now, or on the verge of it.

    The whole coast from Bourj Hammoud to Jounieh. All around the road from Antelias to Bikfaya. And some other areas as well.
    Populated by whom? Where are they coming from? Christians from the North , South and the Bekaa?
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Populated by whom? Where are they coming from? Christians from the North , South and the Bekaa?
    Frankly, I have no idea. It could be, since most people only go to their village on the weekends or holidays.

    But in the case of Baabda / Hazmieh, there are also Shia living there.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    Frankly, I have no idea. It could be, since most people only go to their village on the weekends or holidays.

    But in the case of Baabda / Hazmieh, there are also Shia living there.
    That is another reason why the prices are so high in these areas. My cousin masalan from Tripoli he said to me why would I live in Tripoli and have a family there when the gov only does projects and invests in these areas in Beirut and Greater Beirut. Greater Beirut by itself has like 2.2 million people with alot of christians going into these areas where they are originally not from them. I remember on OTV they were saying about 2 years ago that Zouk masalan was like 75K people and the original inhabitants is only like 10K.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    Also...there is no urbanism implemented whatsoever...nothing is done to make the roads and public spaces at least somewhat easthetically pleasing, or to offer people some public spaces to enjoy. If you're not in your house, your car, or in a business premise, there is not even a sidewalk for you to be on...





    The whole area is just an extention of Beirut...minus the convenience of being in the city proper...

    Jesus christ!
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Walidos since you're am engineer I asked you two times to give me a complete cost and profit example with numbers like I did. I'm still waiting.

    And mazelak engineer you could've taken a loan and started a project and sold easily at half the market prices and made many other projects after? Ma lta2a Wala cherke as mhandess wahad bi lebnen yaamol hek?
    If you want to quote me please use the “@“ sign, I just saw your post by mistake.
    It doesn’t need a lot to understand the issues:
    1- price of land is ridiculously high if you want to buy, but consider a lot of the buildings were being developed on lands the developers owned...
    2- on top, you assumed in your example that on a 1000sqm land with 25/75 zoning you can build up 1000sqm, in most cases you can build more (area under the road does not go into the zoning calculation)
    3- the fully built up sqm costs anywhere between 500$ to 1000$ Depending on the quality of finishing, you don’t add miscellaneous, this is all in.
    4- the price per sqm of 1300$ is very low... they are selling older properties for that much or where less than premium quality is used.
    5- 300K$ Net profit for 1 project is by no means a small amount! It’s 30%! If you put 30% as a profit margin while bidding for projects, good luck winning anything...

    EDIT: Hayde if the project is selling for 1300$ per sqm!
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    Guys in leb just want to make big bucks and go. 1/3 profit is huge. This doesnt happen outside.
     
    opium

    opium

    Well-Known Member
    Populated by whom? Where are they coming from? Christians from the North , South and the Bekaa?
    It is mostly family expansion. And yes Christians are from everywhere in Lebanon. I am from the south, my mum from Chouf. My parents live in Baabda, now me and my brothers expanded to Beitchay, Bseba,Baabda. And there are many thousands like us.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    It is mostly family expansion. And yes Christians are from everywhere in Lebanon. I am from the south, my mum from Chouf. My parents live in Baabda, now me and my brothers expanded to Beitchay, Bseba,Baabda. And there are many thousands like us.
    That is why the population growth in some areas is enormous especially in Metn, Baabda and places like Jounieh.
     
    opium

    opium

    Well-Known Member
    Haizmieh municipality is the most crooked nepotist thing in lebanon, b houtoulo wezek lal istiz bet asmar
    This is one of the main reasons of the urbanism chaos.
    People who settle in a city, they should be able to vote in the municipality after 3 years.
    Many cities like Hazmieh, Mansourie and many others are controlled by families.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    This is one of the main reasons of the urbanism chaos.
    People who settle in a city, they should be able to vote in the municipality after 3 years.
    Many cities like Hazmieh, Mansourie and many others are controlled by families.
    This is true and I agree. But in a country like Lebanon, there is the sectarian demographic issue to worry about.
     
    oldschool

    oldschool

    Active Member
    If you want to quote me please use the “@“ sign, I just saw your post by mistake.
    It doesn’t need a lot to understand the issues:
    1- price of land is ridiculously high if you want to buy, but consider a lot of the buildings were being developed on lands the developers owned...
    You are making an error in logic here. Whether they already owned the land or not doesn't matter. If he had the land for free from his father he still factors it in with the market price. Why? Because he has to compare profit with the option of simply selling the land. Whatever profits he made by land going up were made by all Lebanese. And btw the prices jumped because they were low because of war and occupation. If we had stability now the prices wouldn't come down.

    2- on top, you assumed in your example that on a 1000sqm land with 25/75 zoning you can build up 1000sqm, in most cases you can build more (area under the road does not go into the zoning calculation)
    Sure that can be.

    3- the fully built up sqm costs anywhere between 500$ to 1000$ Depending on the quality of finishing, you don’t add miscellaneous, this is all in.
    I was quoting an exact project that I worked on so I separated construction from other costs.
    4- the price per sqm of 1300$ is very low... they are selling older properties for that much or where less than premium quality is used.
    In blat jbeil? No.

    5- 300K$ Net profit for 1 project is by no means a small amount! It’s 30%! If you put 30% as a profit margin while bidding for projects, good luck winning anything...

    EDIT: Hayde if the project is selling for 1300$ per sqm!
    The 30% is after 3-4 years. If you put your money in the bank in Lebanon for 3-4 years you made close enough to that without any effort and headache. When you bid for a project that u don't have to sell you make your money when it's done or during without any risk.

    When bank interests are so high the profits have to be bigger otherwise noone would invest in real estate or in anything except as a safety net.
     
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