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Elections Sabaa new party electoral program

Nasser

Well-Known Member
#61
So I might have missed it, but what the f*** is their position on key issues? Like weapons, militias, abolishing secterian political system?
Everything I've came across regarding 7 was just purely empty talk in the air with no clear statements.
For me these are key issues if I am ever to vote for somebody.
 
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  • My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #62
    We need to know where this party came from, how it was formed, who is backing and financing them...

    Yesterday, I hadn't heard of them, today I see a professional video ad promoting them. They've obviously been planning for a while.

    We also need to know what their program is and how they plan to tackle sectarian issues. They can't just offer empty "secularism" slogans with no safeguards for Christians, while the whole Middle East is being emptied of its Christian population.

    Without the above, I can neither support them nor not support them. Too many unanswered questions as of yet.

    Irrespective of who's behind them, they sound perfect. Nice presentation. I hope they get many followers.

    Give me any movement that looks new, sounds good, is peaceful and engaging new young faces able to orderly place two consecutive words of common sense without breaking the elbow of their tongue, and I am for it. Be the devil himself behind it.

    Sick of the same old depressing energies circling around my life, from sunrise to sunset and from the craddle to the grave, under different shapes and forms but with the same silly grand titels of beiks and sheikhs followed by their more depressing surnames.

    I don't care who's behind this movement. Because the current party politics and topography can't get any worse, that's a mathematical impossibility. Which means anything goes, Even if it might take them 50 years to get to achieve something, their mere presence gives hope that something still lives among the mummies in that big graveyard they call lebanese politics.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #63
    Irrespective of who's behind them, they sound perfect. Nice presentation. I hope they get many followers.

    Give me any movement that looks new, sounds good, is peaceful and engaging new young faces able to orderly place two consecutive words of common sense without breaking the elbow of their tongue, and I am for it. Be the devil himself behind it.

    Sick of the same old depressing energies circling around my life, from sunrise to sunset and from the craddle to the grave, under different shapes and forms but with the same silly grand titels of beiks and sheikhs followed by their more depressing surnames.

    I don't care who's behind this movement. Because the current party politics and topography can't get any worse, that's a mathematical impossibility. Which means anything goes, Even if it might take them 50 years to get to achieve something, their mere presence gives hope that something still lives among the mummies in that big graveyard they call lebanese politics.
    I would like to share your enthousiasm. Unfortunately, my observation of politics, as well as my personal experiences, have taught me the importance of looking out for wolves under sheep's clothing.

    Not saying this is the case here. We just don't have enough information to know.

    However, I do share your general disgust with Lebanese (and regional) politics.
     
    #65
    I would like to share your enthousiasm. Unfortunately, my observation of politics, as well as my personal experiences, have taught me the importance of looking out for wolves under sheep's clothing.

    Not saying this is the case here. We just don't have enough information to know.

    However, I do share your general disgust with Lebanese (and regional) politics.
    We already have multiple wolfs ruling this country, there is nothing to lose in voting for a well organized secular movement as long they are not alt-religious or alt-nationalist freaks. If there are indeed wolfs in sheep's cloths, so you'll be voting for the lesser of two multiple evils. A crook better than a sectarian crook.

    However, there is Charbel Nahas who is the best undisputed alternative for sectarian parties.
    The only safeguard for Christians' future is Secularism, supremacy of all civil laws & institutions over any religious authority. All of the troubles, corruption, civil war, debt, and again all problems Lebanon have is because of the almost century old sectarian regime ...
     

    Red Phoenix

    Legendary Member
    #66
    Irrespective of who's behind them, they sound perfect. Nice presentation. I hope they get many followers.

    Give me any movement that looks new, sounds good, is peaceful and engaging new young faces able to orderly place two consecutive words of common sense without breaking the elbow of their tongue, and I am for it. Be the devil himself behind it.

    Sick of the same old depressing energies circling around my life, from sunrise to sunset and from the craddle to the grave, under different shapes and forms but with the same silly grand titels of beiks and sheikhs followed by their more depressing surnames.

    I don't care who's behind this movement. Because the current party politics and topography can't get any worse, that's a mathematical impossibility. Which means anything goes, Even if it might take them 50 years to get to achieve something, their mere presence gives hope that something still lives among the mummies in that big graveyard they call lebanese politics.
    A monkey is allowed to run & vote as long as it has the lebanese passport

    That is not the issue

    The issue is who are they if they want my vote

    What is their platform, manifesto, founders & elected leaders, even if they are just 10 ppl this is needed

    So far i read they dont have leadership

    Which is stupid

    Im not a fan of hippy marxist bs

    They need a leadership, elected too, or at the very least a list of founders & current administrators til elections happen

    Next who the f-ck is funding them

    Clearly they have big anonymous donors

    And last but not least their political manifesto

    Im dont vote for hippies, nazis, religious ppl, marxists & cultist feminists
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #67
    We already have multiple wolfs ruling this country, there is nothing to lose in voting for a well organized secular movement as long they are not alt-religious or alt-nationalist freaks. If there are indeed wolfs in sheep's cloths, so you'll be voting for the lesser of two multiple evils. A crook better than a sectarian crook.

    However, there is Charbel Nahas who is the best undisputed alternative for sectarian parties.
    The only safeguard for Christians' future is Secularism, supremacy of all civil laws & institutions over any religious authority. All of the troubles, corruption, civil war, debt, and again all problems Lebanon have is because of the almost century old sectarian regime ...
    There is no such thing as secularism in Lebanon. The only safeguard for Christians is to keep 50% of the political power, or to partition.
     

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #68
    A monkey is allowed to run & vote as long as it has the lebanese passport

    That is not the issue

    The issue is who are they if they want my vote

    What is their platform, manifesto, founders & elected leaders, even if they are just 10 ppl this is needed

    So far i read they dont have leadership

    Which is stupid

    Im not a fan of hippy marxist bs

    They need a leadership, elected too, or at the very least a list of founders & current administrators til elections happen

    Next who the f-ck is funding them

    Clearly they have big anonymous donors

    And last but not least their political manifesto

    Im dont vote for hippies, nazis, religious ppl, marxists & cultist feminists
    In this tarantella's hole for a country, good seeds of mawehib and initiatives have long ago stopped materializing naturally out of thin air. How could they, when the huge mountains of old elephants excrements cover every single square meter of the landscape.

    Every time you get someone stretch neck and start singing outside the nashez orchestra band, they are quickly labeled to be this and that or suspected for being an artificiell construction, payed by this or that crook.

    And this could well be the case. But do I really care, when the bottom of the bottom is already reached with what we have? Not the little least.
    To me, it suffices to hear those people talk in a language i've never heard any one of the usual equipment understand, let alone talk.

    Something old has got to give and something new has got to start. Keep saying not now, not them, not enough and what not and you'll never get to know anything else than the current psychedelic maelstrom of dumb wackos for parties and politicians, looping around throughout our lifecycles.

    Enno seriously, in their worst case scenario, what damage could those people cause that we've not already received from many ends and many times over?
    What about that little chance that they may be genuine and, at the end of the day, are sincere about what they want, which is what everyone else also want?
     

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #69
    There is no such thing as secularism in Lebanon. The only safeguard for Christians is to keep 50% of the political power, or to partition.
    For an ultimately last resort, yes. If they find a magical, and I mean truly magical, formula to make secularism practically work in such an already sectarianly plagued country, it should be their first choice. Else yes, some kind of working federalism is be the next best.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #70
    For an ultimately last resort, yes. If they find a magical, and I mean truly magical, formula to make secularism practically work in such an already sectarianly plagued country, it should be their first choice. Else yes, some kind of working federalism is be the next best.
    It won't happen because secularism and Islam cannot work together.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #72
    I'm not sure that a majority of our lebanese muslims are for sharia neither. But who knows what happens in 20, 30 years.
    gsi2-chp1-3.png


    That's bad enough...and, as you said...it could get worse in the future.

    When one looks at Muslim-majority countries + the doctrine and history of Islam, there is literally not a single reason that justifies taking any risks with it.
     
    #73
    There is no such thing as secularism in Lebanon. The only safeguard for Christians is to keep 50% of the political power, or to partition.
    How come? The current system is becoming more and more unreliable with the increasing number of non-religious and secular people, large portion of the population doesn't practice the "religion" they are assigned to.

    Christians doesn't have or need the 50% of the political power nor Muslims do, only politicians holding 100% of the power. What Lebanese people need is their basic human and constitutional rights and ability to live in state of law which the current Sectarian regime and political class doesn't provide.

    Sectarianism is only a weapon in their hands to keep the brainwashed. There is no political party in the Parliament which holds a long-term ideology, platform, workplan, or vision for the whole country, it's all about semi-divine crooks with empty slogans and personal business plans. For this reason they'll not give woman equal rights, they'll not legalize civil marriage, they'll not approve civil family laws.

    It won't happen because secularism and Islam cannot work together.
    Christianity doesn't work with secularism as well! The principle State Secularism is separation of state and the religion, where everyone can live equally under the law. Religious freaks can move somewhere else if they don't like it.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #75
    How come? The current system is becoming more and more unreliable with the increasing number of non-religious and secular people, large portion of the population doesn't practice the "religion" they are assigned to.

    Christians doesn't have or need the 50% of the political power nor Muslims do, only politicians holding 100% of the power. What Lebanese people need is their basic human and constitutional rights and ability to live in state of law which the current Sectarian regime and political class doesn't provide.

    Sectarianism is only a weapon in their hands to keep the brainwashed. There is no political party in the Parliament which holds a long-term ideology, platform, workplan, or vision for the whole country, it's all about semi-divine crooks with empty slogans and personal business plans. For this reason they'll not give woman equal rights, they'll not legalize civil marriage, they'll not approve civil family laws.



    Christianity doesn't work with secularism as well! The principle State Secularism is separation of state and the religion, where everyone can live equally under the law. Religious freaks can move somewhere else if they don't like it.
    Secularism is doing just fine in historically Christian countries.

    You can wish for "religious freaks" to move to space, but they're there and you have to deal with them.

    I'm not willing to experiment with secularism in a country with a majority of Muslims, 30% of whom want sharia law.

    Utopias are one thing, reality is another.
     

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #76
    gsi2-chp1-3.png


    That's bad enough...and, as you said...it could get worse in the future.

    When one looks at Muslim-majority countries + the doctrine and history of Islam, there is literally not a single reason that justifies taking any risks with it.
    In contrast to all the other examples, I still claim that Lebanon, demographically speaking, is a little different. I think the christians presence and political and cultural influence did play, and keeps playing, a positive role in making the country unique even in this respect. Post civil war, a Lebanese muslim generally speaking is actually less inclined to want to be identified as a typical sharia striving muslim, compared to many majority muslim countries. Few voices here and there are not the norm.

    Even with HA presenting itself as an Islamic movement following the wilayat al faqih in Iran, I tend to think many of its members and inside its leadership are not ideologically speaking ready to jump the whole distance onto a strict sharia ruled system. It'd be over the many Amals dead bodies in that case. Not to mention most sunnis and druze who are even less inclined to quit smoking arguileh or to walk in burqa.

    The daily squirmishes we hear about in politics are mainly mafia struggles with a sectarian overtune only because this is how the cards are already dealt and the political game is already set.

    I see no one asking for sharia and I'm sure not even HA would dare do so inside its own community. Thereof Lebanons cursed uniqueness in this regard.
     

    lebanese1

    Legendary Member
    #77
    Secularism is doing just fine in historically Christian countries.

    You can wish for "religious freaks" to move to space, but they're there and you have to deal with them.

    I'm not willing to experiment with secularism in a country with a majority of Muslims, 30% of whom want sharia law.

    Utopias are one thing, reality is another.
    Even those who don't want shari3a like Berri are calling for secularism not because they believe in it but because they think that it can be a tool for them to grab more power for themselves as a result of the increasingly unbalanced demographics.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #78
    In contrast to all the other examples, I still claim that Lebanon, demographically speaking, is a little different. I think the christians presence and political and cultural influence did play, and keeps playing, a positive role in making the country unique even in this respect. Post civil war, a Lebanese muslim generally speaking is actually less inclined to want to be identified as a typical sharia striving muslim, compared to many majority muslim countries. Few voices here and there are not the norm.

    Even with HA presenting itself as an Islamic movement following the wilayat al faqih in Iran, I tend to think many of its members and inside its leadership are not ideologically speaking ready to jump the whole distance onto a strict sharia ruled system. It's be over the many Amals dead bodies in that case. Not to mention most sunnis who are even less inclined to quit smoking arguileh or to walk in burqa.

    The daily squirmishes we hear about in politics are mainly mafia struggles with a sectarian overtune only because this is how the cards are already dealt and the political game is already set.

    I see no one asking for sharia and I'm sure not even HA would dare do so inside its own community. Thereof Lebanons cursed uniqueness in this regard.
    Lebanon ranks better than other Middle Eastern countries, in this regard, but 30% is not "few voices."

    Living in or hanging out in Beirut, we tend to forget that not everyone in Lebanon is like our buddies from the hipster pub down the street.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #79
    Even those who don't want shari3a like Berri are calling for secularism not because they believe in it but because they think that it can be a tool for them to grab more power for themselves as a result of the increasingly unbalanced demographics.
    Exactly.
     

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    #80
    In contrast to all the other examples, I still claim that Lebanon, demographically speaking, is a little different. I think the christians presence and political and cultural influence did play, and keeps playing, a positive role in making the country unique even in this respect. Post civil war, a Lebanese muslim generally speaking is actually less inclined to want to be identified as a typical sharia striving muslim, compared to many majority muslim countries. Few voices here and there are not the norm.

    Even with HA presenting itself as an Islamic movement following the wilayat al faqih in Iran, I tend to think many of its members and inside its leadership are not ideologically speaking ready to jump the whole distance onto a strict sharia ruled system. It'd be over the many Amals dead bodies in that case. Not to mention most sunnis and druze who are even less inclined to quit smoking arguileh or to walk in burqa.

    The daily squirmishes we hear about in politics are mainly mafia struggles with a sectarian overtune only because this is how the cards are already dealt and the political game is already set.

    I see no one asking for sharia and I'm sure not even HA would dare do so inside its own community. Thereof Lebanons cursed uniqueness in this regard.
    I read this article today and thought it was a nice change of the usual warmongering news, but I think it perfectly illustrates the post above!

    Lebanese judge orders 3 Muslims to memorize Quran verses hailing Mary, Jesus

    These individuals insulted Christians and Christianity and instead of sentencing them to jail, which was within her powers, the judge sentenced them to read their own quraan and get educated on their own religious teachings! When you get to know the other you suddenly find them less scary!