Elections Sabaa new party electoral program

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Staff member
#81
Lebanon ranks better than other Middle Eastern countries, in this regard, but 30% is not "few voices."

Living in or hanging out in Beirut, we tend to forget that not everyone in Lebanon is like our buddies from the hipster pub down the street.
I know, yet, poverty factors have always lurked like a black shadow over the outside regions, making people in desperation hope for anything else that can change their current state.

I can assure you if you polled those people during the era of pan-arabism, they'd all have shouted in one voice falyassqot wa7ad min fo2, or during the PLO, they'd be first to volunteer as fida2iyeen, or during the communisms happy days, they'd all be red comrades.
 
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  • lebanese1

    Legendary Member
    #82
    I read this article today and thought it was a nice change of the usual warmongering news, but I think it perfectly illustrates the post above!

    Lebanese judge orders 3 Muslims to memorize Quran verses hailing Mary, Jesus

    These individuals insulted Christians and Christianity and instead of sentencing them to jail, which was within her powers, the judge sentenced them to read their own quraan and get educated on their own religious teachings! When you get to know the other you suddenly find them less scary!
    On the other hand, civil war was at the door because Berri was labeled like he truly is!
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #84
    I know, yet, poverty factors have always lurked like a black shadow over the outside regions, making people in desperation hope for anything else that can change their current state.

    I can assure you if you polled those people during the era of pan-arabism, they'd all have shouted in one voice falyassqot wa7ad min fo2, or during the PLO, they'd be first to volunteer as fida2iyeen, or during the communisms happy days, they'd all be red comrades.
    Well ok...that explains things, but that doesn't remove the danger for Christians. At any point in time, Muslims can turn on the switch (for whatever reason) and decide that they want Sharia or whatever.

    And as was already stated, being non-religious doesn't mean people are less sectarian. Many non-practicing Muslims would very happily use demographic warfare to benefit their community and run the state according to their interests.
     

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #85
    Well ok...that explains things, but that doesn't remove the danger for Christians. At any point in time, Muslims can turn on the switch (for whatever reason) and decide that they want Sharia or whatever.

    And as was already stated, being non-religious doesn't mean people are less sectarian. Many non-practicing Muslims would very happily use demographic warfare to benefit their community and run the state according to their interests.
    Hence my reservation in the "who knows what comes in 20, 30 years..."
    I'm not sure that a majority of our lebanese muslims are for sharia neither. But who knows what happens in 20, 30 years.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #86
    @My Moria Moon

    Just look at Turkey. Supposedly secular for a century...to the point that they banned the hijab from public institutions...and look at them now. Someone turns on the switch and, instantly, Islamists appear.
     
    #88
    Even those who don't want shari3a like Berri are calling for secularism not because they believe in it but because they think that it can be a tool for them to grab more power for themselves as a result of the increasingly unbalanced demographics.
    This applies more to HA than Berri. Berri's call for secularism is a buff as he stands to lose.
     

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    #89
    This applies more to HA than Berri. Berri's call for secularism is a buff as he stands to lose.
    That is quite true imo! I believe his representation in the Shiite community pales in comparison to hezbullah and the only reason he's still relevant is because hezbullah doesn't want a repeat of the Amal hezbullah clashes of the past.
     

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #91
    @My Moria Moon

    Just look at Turkey. Supposedly secular for a century...to the point that they banned the hijab from public institutions...and look at them now. Someone turns on the switch and, instantly, Islamists appear.
    That's why I keep mentioning that Lebanon is a very unique country in this regard. Turkey is a sunni country, actually by its very design.
    Lebanon has the advantage of initially being mainly a little land for the christians of the near region. It is a lot harder to make it like another Iraq, Syria or Turkey for them christians, the christians in here all too rooted and not so encircled as others are. They can always easily ask nicely to detach, as a last resort; well I'd say preferably inside an own enclave in a federation. I'm sure the druze will happily follow suit.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #92
    That's why I keep mentioning that Lebanon is a very unique country in this regard. Turkey is a sunni country, actually by its ve
    Lebanon has the advantage of initially being mainly a little land for the christians of the near region. It is a lot harder to make it like another Iraq, Syria or Turkey for them christians, the christians in here all too rooted and not so encircled as others are. They can always easily ask nicely to detach, as a last resort; well I'd say preferably inside an own enclave in a federation. I'm sure the druze will happily follow suit.
    Yes...this is true. Unless Christians and other minorities get exterminated like in Turkey.
     
    #93
    That is quite true imo! I believe his representation in the Shiite community pales in comparison to hezbullah and the only reason he's still relevant is because hezbullah doesn't want a repeat of the Amal hezbullah clashes of the past.
    Berri knows his base are pro secularism and knows that he will be a divisive factor in anything he joins. So by claiming to support secularism, he gets his real goal of sabotaging it.
     

    My Moria Moon

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #95
    Yes...this is true. Unless Christians and other minorities get exterminated like in Turkey.
    But this is also why, unlike in Turkey, they cannot be exterminated in Lebanon by external forces ( only their own selves). This is part of the country's uniqueness I keep mentioning. ;)
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    #96
    But this is also why, unlike in Turkey, they cannot be exterminated in Lebanon by external forces ( only their own selves). This is part of the country's uniqueness I keep mentioning. ;)
    Had daesh / nusra managed to infiltrate Lebanon, how sure are you that their Lebanese sympathizers wouldn't have joined their ranks and turned their weapons on the rest of us?
     

    freelebanonn

    Legendary Member
    #99
    Will they also have candidates in metn (and the rest of Lebanon for that matter) or just Beirut?
    I dont know yet. I hope they do even though i dont think they a have a chance outside achrafieh , them or any other moujtama3 madani for the matter. The reason is the average hassel in all districts except achrafieh is around 14k. In achrafieh its 6.5k .
     
    Secularism is doing just fine in historically Christian countries.

    I'm not willing to experiment with secularism in a country with a majority of Muslims, 30% of whom want sharia law.

    Utopias are one thing, reality is another.
    Turkey, Azerbaijan, Kazahstan, and other Central Asia post-Soviet States are 90% Majorities and are secular states.
    Also Albania, Kosovo, and Bosnia and Herzegovina are Muslim-majority secular democracies countries, and they are doing fine.

    30% of Muslims would mean about 10%-15% overall population, a very low rate.
     

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