Shiia keserwan, Myth or Reality

Indie

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This argument has been made many times over the years, on this forum, and it should be debunked once and for all.

Keserwan is originally Shiite. They are reclaiming back what was once theirs before you and your Mamluk cousins came and expelled the Metwalis out of their ancestral lands.


Shame on you! You're worse than Yazid ibn Muawiya.

we were in kersrewan 600 years before mohamad was even born.

Nope! The Maronite church was founded in the 5th century, but Maronites didn't start migrating to Keserwan until the 18th century, when Mamluks expelled the local Shiite population to make room for Maronites.

Mohamed was born around 570 AD. (peace be upon his lovely soul)

I challenge you to name one church in Keserwan that dates back to earlier than the 18th century.

Actually Khazen began migrating to Keserwen in the 16th century.

St. Anthony of Padua Church in Ballouneh was built in the 17th century.

Virgin Mary Church also in the 17th.

i really dont have time to explain to you christians, maronites, same thing


maronites doidnt come by parachute, we just converted the other christians there


a hint


deir mar MAROUN in batroun which is a stone throw from keserwan is 7th century old.


islam has zero claim on lebanon

its christians first and centuries the ghouzat came and took over by force

"Towards the end of the 13th century the Mamelukes of Egypt began to gain the upper hand in the eastern Mediterranean. The crusaders in retreat found refuge among the Maronites in Lebanon. While the Franks tried to hold the line there, they were defeated by the Sultan’s troops. In 1267 upper Lebanon was destroyed. Many captives were beheaded, trees were cut and the churches were destroyed. From 1289 to 1291 the whole of the Lebanese coast fell to the invaders. The once flourishing cities of the Mediterranean went up in flames as the Moslems took their vengeance on the Christians. According to the Historian Theodore of Hama, even in Kisrawan, not a monastery, church or fort was saved from destruction.


Aspects of Maronite History (Part Three) – Eparchy of Saint Maron of Brooklyn

you can add the mamlouk,s ottomans, same results



كذبة الدولتين الاموية والعباسية دولتان حكمتا 600 سنة تعاقب عليهما 51 خليفة...لم يتركا...قصرا ولا مسجدا ولا حماما ولا شارعا ولا قلعة ولا معسكرا ولا جسرا ولا نفقا ولا اي اثر مادي مطلقا حسنا...زرت اثار البابليين والسومريين والاشوريين والفرس واليونانيين والرومان والجرمان والانكليز والاسكندنافيين والافارقة والمصريين والسوريين والمايا وكلها اما اثار ظاهرة او مدفونة تدل على يد صانعها وهي اقدم بالاف السنين اين الحضارة الاسلامية او حضارة الامويين والعباسيين؟ قصر الامارة في الكوفة كان قلعة رومانية...الجامع الاموي كنيسة...الملوية برج مراقبة روماني...جامع الحجية صوفيا او ايا صوفيا كنيسة نفترض يد التخريب طالت مباني الدنيا اين مباني الدين التي لايجرؤ احد على هدمها مثل المساجد

ان الدولة الاموية والعباسية هما معسكران لاغير مثل داعش ودولته فبعد الف سنة تقرا الناس عن الدولة الاسلامية في العراق والشام

You're talking of Kisrawan/Keserwan...was it a MARONITE homeland in the beginning to start with? Was it not after the Turkish jihad and the fatwas of Ibn Taymiyyah that wiped out the Shia from the north-western half of Lebanon? Tripoli, today the largest Sunni city in Lebanon, was once a Shia city. It was transformed by the Sunni caliphate terrorism against minorities.
All Lebanon was Christian and Syria for the fact. What you talking about? Do you think Lebanon's history started with Sunni and Shiite, and whom expulsed whom from certain area few centuries ago?
You still talking about this shit? Grow up there are many things that we are facing more important than one area. Go and see why immigration rates amongst the shias are the highest eventhough you have HA and the corrupt Berri.
He's secular but wants Shiites dominance. Go figure out twisted logic
Same as manifesto bro. Kelloun heike. They tell you ne7na secular and we want a secular state and all they talk about is shia keserwen, shia zahle and shia jbeil. Its all bullshit and just a power grab. The christians of the land better be aware of whats happening.
The Shia have no history of expelling anyone in Lebanon. The Shia presence itself in Lebanon is completely based on converts and immigration.

All of Lebanon was Christian at a point, and before that, it could have been all Jewish, and before that it could have been all pagan, going by chronology. But at the point it was ALL christian, it was not all Maronite. Min wein ejito?
You are the one who keep talking about Keserwen as if it is a lost Shiite land. I just want to make a remark that you seem to stop at one point in history to satisfy your lol secular Shiite mind.
Christians keno in Nabatiyeh before the shia took over badna our lands back.
No, I dont want Shia dominance. I want Lebanese dominance. But when Maronites, Christians or druze or sunni keep singing about their rights, where do I fall in personally as a Lebanese from the Shia sect and who identifies with secularism? At least within my sect they still see me as a "Shia son" or "brother". But towards fanatical and extremist sectarian Sunnis, Maronites and druze, what do they see a secular Shia as? They see him just as another Shi'a who should be gotten rid of.

So it doesn't pleases me at all when my government and parliament is a race among sectarian extremists and a competition on who gets the lion share. Such language is sick. And some are actually talking about numbers, when in fact the numbers are not in their favor. And they tall about coexistence and equal power sharing when it suits them. It is big time hypocrisy!

Similarly, you talk about sectarian politics all the time. When you're checkmated, you scream that how can a Shia preaching secularism or promoting a civil state where all citizens are equal be defending his sect. Neither secularism nor sectarianism can be promoted by me or should be promoted by anyone to target and weaken any Lebanese community or individual. It is that simple. Secularism should be promoted because sectarian politics has not only failed, but it has destroyed Lebanon and Lebanese society. To preserve Lebanon and all Lebanese, regardless of sect or religion, secularism is the only way to ensure all Lebanese are equal and free citizens in their country. It is a mechanism to promote a free, equal and just country for all Lebanese citizens, and not a tool to destroy or target any Lebanese or any religion.
It is lost Shia land if you want to consider other areas as "lost christian lands". We have to be fair. And by the way, in history, both the Christians and Shi'a have been victims of the sunni caliphate. In fact, the shia were victims more than the Christians. The shia weren't even recognized as a community. They lived underground and in dissimulation. So when you're preaching your victim hood mentality and begging for pity, others have bigger stories to tell too.
I thought you were different... You turned to be a sectarian as the Sunnis, Maronites and Druze.

So we know now that you speak as a sectarian, right?
[]
One question. Would you give up the MOF?
Keno w ba3don mawjooden. And they are living fairly and equally and in peace with their neighbors and no one will raise a finger against them in Nabatiyyeh.
As you like to understand things...its your choice.
Hey hey stop pitying yourself you fool. The vitimization has ended. You have stole and plagued our gov snd our state intistitutions since Taef. You as a community were the main people that benefitted in that period. B rabak shhhh!
Where did you see me preaching this or that? For some reason, it is fascinating to see a secular like you who keep mentioning Kesereen as a Shiite land
How many alcohol shops are there ??? How many still live there? 200???
You just said that you are playing the Maronites/Sunni/Druze sectarian card as a Shiite... Didn't you Mr. secular?
It isn't mine. I'm not related to Berri or Khalil. First, give it to me. And then ask me if I would give it up. I own nothing. I really don't understand how fanatical and stupid people can be. How they derive so much pleasure by the mere thought that someone from their sect controls a ministry or leadership position. Lol
Mano secular wala batikh. He wants the christians to be allies but under his control against the druze and the sunnis in the country. What a way to build a country.
Ive only been there once and i didnt count the alcohol shops. You may need to visit the place. Have you ever been there? Ive been there once.
Again would the shia community give up the MOF?
Khaye, i am willing to have a parliament that has no sect allotment with a fair division of electoral districts. Are you willing to have a senate with decentralization or even federalism??
I suggest you go there and have a look. Its a pile of junk bro.
No no... He is a secular athiest and communist. But somehow he keeps talking about Keserwen being a lost Shiite land in about every post lol
They have hate in their eyes against the christians. They cant handle that Keserwen which numbers 300K people is 95% christian. They need to suck it up.
Let's not generalize... But if Shiite seculars 3a ashkelo ya 3ein... than what did he leaves for the sectarian ones ?lol
Kelloun heike.
LOL. Here it is the Shia unveiled. You oppose the Zionist ideology of Jews rehabilitating to their lost land of Israel but yet you support the claim of Kesserwan being a Shia homeland even though most Shias haven't lived here for over 200 years! How come buddy?

A fun fact for you, the native population started converting to Christianity from Tyre to the North long before Islam set foot on our holy soil.
The Zionist is bringing in an imported population that even if traced to ten thousand years may have no ancestral link to Palestine. It is like allowing a Japanese Muslim settle in Makkah and giving him Saudi passport because he is practicing islam. Ashkenazi Jews are Caucasian converts into Judaism. They are Judaists.
thats the average muslim for you
secular when it suits them

thats the mentality

رسالة الرئيس بتعمل فتنة سنية -شيعية بس التوظيف بمجلس الخدمة المدنية باغلبية اسلامية طبيعي لان البلد علماني يا زلمي ما حدن بيخاف من فتنة مسيحية بهالبلد
#فتنة #مجلس_الخدمة_المدنية
 
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  • AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    @Indie, on what historical evidence are you basing your claim that this is a myth?
    This is well documented event by historians.
    Many Shiite families can tell you which village in Keserwan their ancestors came from.

    Throughout history, Lebanese Shiites have been the subject of both Sunni and Maronite persecution.

    Maronites haven't always been the innocent ones. Quite often they were the ones persecuting others. Let's not be blinded to this fact. Even Armenians have seen their share of fascist Maronite violence.

    Kataeb should be forced to pay war reparations for their ethnic cleansing crimes against Shiites during the civil war, and their party dissolved.
     
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    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Kataeb should be forced to pay war reparations for their ethnic cleansing crimes against Shiites, and their party dissolved.
    Scrap the last part. I forgot they're on their way to extinction. :lol::lol::lol:
     
    S

    Saj

    New Member
    This country is such a joke that its people get on the internet to debate where members of a sect were living 1000 years ago. Unbelievable... l 3alam weyn w nehna weyn.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I found this online. Whoever posted it mentions historian Anis Freiha, Father Lammens, and father Al Hattouni & his book The History of the Casa of Keserwan.

    "After the Mamluks destroyed Keserwan, driving its Maronite north and it Shiite population south and east, the Assaf Turkmen clan settled in the Zouks: Zouk Al Amariyeh (currently Amaret Chalhoub), Zouk Mosbeh, and Zouk Mikael to keep guard against the return of the original inhabitants. Each Zouk, or military base, contained 300 soldiers who moved monthly between each base. The base of Zouk, in Zouk Mosbeh, was in the Al Kharaeb or Khara'eb Al Moulook area that was situated in the place of the current Monastery of Christ the King. As for the housing of the soldiers' families, this was located in what is known today as Ha Al Saydeh (the Quarter of Our Lady).

    In Modern and Contemporary Times
    In the battle of Marj Dabek in 1516 that was crowned by the victory of the Ottomans over the Mamluks, the Assaf family sided with the Ottomans and Sultan Selim Khan I appointed them as walis (governors) over Keserwan.

    In that era, the Maronites began to return back or resettle, specifically from the region of Jbeil to live in Keserwan. Zouk Mosbeh received families from Haqel, Jaj, Ghalboon and other villages and in 1701 became one of the largest cities in Keserwan."
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    This country is such a joke that its people get on the internet to debate where members of a sect were living 1000 years ago. Unbelievable... l 3alam weyn w nehna weyn.
    Are we only meant to be discussing Haifa's latest music video? This forum is for history enthusiasts, too.

    There's a misconception that Maronites were persecuted by Muslims. This is only partially true. The truth is far more complex than that.
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    I found this online. Whoever posted it mentions historian Anis Freiha, Father Lammens, and father Al Hattouni & his book The History of the Casa of Keserwan.

    "After the Mamluks destroyed Keserwan, driving its Maronite north and it Shiite population south and east, the Assaf Turkmen clan settled in the Zouks: Zouk Al Amariyeh (currently Amaret Chalhoub), Zouk Mosbeh, and Zouk Mikael to keep guard against the return of the original inhabitants. Each Zouk, or military base, contained 300 soldiers who moved monthly between each base. The base of Zouk, in Zouk Mosbeh, was in the Al Kharaeb or Khara'eb Al Moulook area that was situated in the place of the current Monastery of Christ the King. As for the housing of the soldiers' families, this was located in what is known today as Ha Al Saydeh (the Quarter of Our Lady).

    In Modern and Contemporary Times
    In the battle of Marj Dabek in 1516 that was crowned by the victory of the Ottomans over the Mamluks, the Assaf family sided with the Ottomans and Sultan Selim Khan I appointed them as walis (governors) over Keserwan.

    In that era, the Maronites began to return back or resettle, specifically from the region of Jbeil to live in Keserwan. Zouk Mosbeh received families from Haqel, Jaj, Ghalboon and other villages and in 1701 became one of the largest cities in Keserwan."
    People don't do research by googling whatever fits their prejudices. "Someone posted this online", lol.

    Maybe you should actually grab a book and read before reaching conclusions, but you're too intellectually dishonest for that.

    In the mean time:

    It's a myth.

    That's all we need.
     
    Aoune32!

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    Keserwan was never under the shia. It had shia in it, yep. Same as it had christians in it. Most of the shia werent actualy from the area they came from the contant flow if immigration from the bekaa.
     
    S

    Saj

    New Member
    Are we only meant to be discussing Haifa's latest music video? This forum is for history enthusiasts, too.

    There's a misconception that Maronites were persecuted by Muslims. This is only partially true. The truth is far more complex than that.
    The point is this whole conversation is rooted in nativism. The implications of this conversation are to either piss off Shia by accusing them of being foreigners, or to piss off Maronites by inventing a “Shia should return to Keserwen” argument. There is not a good intention in this thread.

    Nobody is debating history in the interest of debating history. Someone on this website will find a way to make what happened centuries ago relevant today. That is my concern.

    But good luck. Maybe you will have a productive conversation.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    People don't do research by googling whatever fits their prejudices. "Someone posted this online", lol.

    Maybe you should actually grab a book and read before reaching conclusions, but you're too intellectually dishonest for that.

    In the mean time:

    It's a myth.

    That's all we need.
    This is the only information from a book I have found posted online, so far, on this topic. And it is far more than what you have provided.

    I'm not going to make copies of actual books, or type up their content, to post them here.

    And don't talk as if you research a topic, for months, before sharing your opinions as facts, on this forum. Your posts are some of the most misinformed jumble of nonsense anyone posts on here.
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    This is the only information from a book I have found posted online, so far, on this topic.

    I'm not going to make copies of actual books, or type up their content, to post them here.

    And don't talk as if you research a topic, for months, before sharing your opinions as facts, on this forum. Your posts are some of the most misinformed jumble of nonsense anyone posts on here.
    It doesn't matter. You reached your conclusion when you don't have a single credible source, except what "someone" posted online. In fact, you don't even need that. You have already written history in your own mind; facts, academic research.. be damned. NOTHING will convince you otherwise, because you're not intellectually honest or, frankly, intellectual, to start with.

    You reveal yourself all too easily. I mean at least be smart about it. LOL. You want to debunk a myth when you admit your ignorance on the subject.

    I did post an article in an other thread by Kamal Salibi, an actual authority on Lebanese history, who described how Ottomans and Maronites partnered to kick Shiites out of Keserwan.

    Anyway, /thread.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    It doesn't matter. You reached your conclusion when you don't have a single credible source, except what "someone" posted online. In fact, you don't even need that. You have already written history in your own mind; facts, academic research.. be damned. NOTHING will convince you otherwise, because you're not intellectually honest or, frankly, intellectual, to start with.

    You reveal yourself all too easily. I mean at least be smart about it. LOL. You want to debunk a myth when you admit your ignorance on the subject.

    I did post an article in an other thread by Kamal Salibi, an actual authority on Lebanese history, who described how Ottomans and Maronites partnered to kick Shiites out of Keserwan.

    Anyway, /thread.
    Take your own advice and provide a credible source claiming that Christians persecuted the Shia of Keserwan.

    You haven't provided a single source for anything, and you have the audacity to criticise mine for not being good enough?

    Everything I have read so far points to the Mamluks and the Ottomans, as responsible for persecuting the Shia. The Christians came to live in the area and bought lands from the Shia, and built schools and churches, but there is no mention of them persecuting anyone.

    As for your sick obsession with me, you should seriously think about where it's coming from, because it is way past the creepy level, at this point. Try to contribute something other than trolling and venom, for a change.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    The point is this whole conversation is rooted in nativism. The implications of this conversation are to either piss off Shia by accusing them of being foreigners, or to piss off Maronites by inventing a “Shia should return to Keserwen” argument. There is not a good intention in this thread.

    Nobody is debating history in the interest of debating history. Someone on this website will find a way to make what happened centuries ago relevant today. That is my concern.

    But good luck. Maybe you will have a productive conversation.
    I was just pulling @Aoune32!'s leg when I said that. No one believes that the Shia should return to Keserwan. Not even Shiites, themselves.

    But I think it's important to highlight this specific fact given that Maronites boast about Mount Lebanon being their original Phoenician homeland and consider Muslims outsiders or not really "Lebanese".
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    Take your own advice and provide a credible source claiming that Christians persecuted the Shia of Keserwan.

    You haven't provided a single source for anything, and you have the audacity to criticise mine for not being good enough?

    Everything I have read so far points to the Mamluks and the Ottomans, as responsible for persecuting the Shia. The Christians came to live in the area and bought lands from the Shia, and built schools and churches, but there is no mention of them persecuting anyone.

    As for your sick obsession with me, you should seriously think about where it's coming from, because it is way past the creepy level, at this point. Try to contribute something other than trolling and venom, for a change.
    Why would I do that?

    I haven't claimed the Maronites persecuted Shiites in this thread.

    I merely pointed out your intellectual bankruptcy, as easy as wanting to "debunk a myth" when you admit you don't have access to a single source, besides what "someone" posted online. You decided it's a myth and then facts would write themselves obviously, LOL!! Ya3ni 3anjad, your intellectual level... shi ktir moukhif.

    Everything else I won't deign with a response cause it's what exposed bankrupts do.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    New Member
    I was just pulling @Aoune32!'s leg when I said that. No one believes that the Shia should return to Keserwan. Not even Shiites, themselves.
    That couldn't be further from the truth.

    But I think it's important to highlight this specific fact given that Maronites boast about Mount Lebanon being their original Phoenician homeland and consider Muslims outsiders or not really "Lebanese".

    Mount Lebanon is the original Phoenician homeland of Maronites? Kif rakkabta hayde? I'm Catholic and I don't consider Muslims as not Lebanese. But it is a fact that most of the native population in Lebanon converted to Christianity and not Islam. Islam isn't a Levantine religion, it's an Arab religion. And since we speak the language of the Arabs, and our country is designated as an Arabic country, then yes, most Christians would not be okay with that.
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    That couldn't be further from the truth.




    Mount Lebanon is the original Phoenician homeland of Maronites? Kif rakkabta hayde? I'm Catholic and I don't consider Muslims as not Lebanese. But it is a fact that most of the native population in Lebanon converted to Christianity and not Islam. Islam isn't a Levantine religion, it's an Arab religion. And since we speak the language of the Arabs, and our country is designated as an Arabic country, then yes, most Christians would not be okay with that.
    Well the Byzantine Empire persecuted all heretics, including pagans, and that's why the Middle East was Christian prior to the coming of the Arabs. So the whole "Christians are the original" bla bla.. is also a lot of nonsense.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Keserwan was never under the shia. It had shia in it, yep. Same as it had christians in it. Most of the shia werent actualy from the area they came from the contant flow if immigration from the bekaa.
    No the migration to Bekaa started after they were kicked out of Keserwan.

    Assaf dynasty

    The Assaf dynasty (also called Banu Assaf) were a Sunni Muslim and ethnic Turkmen dynasty of chieftains based in the Keserwan region of Mount Lebanon. They came to the aforementioned area in 1306 after being assigned by the Bahri Mamluks to guard the coastal region between Beirut and Jbeil and to check the power of the mostly Shia Muslim population at the time. During this period, they established their headquarters in Ghazir, which served as the Assafs' base throughout their rule.

    Under the leadership of Emir Assaf, they were confirmed as the rulers of Keserwan by Sultan Selim I following the Ottoman conquest in 1516. Emir Assaf died two years later and was succeeded by his son Hasan, who was in turn killed by his brother Qa'itbay. The latter ruled Keserwan until his death without children in 1523, after which he was succeeded by Hasan's son Mansur. Mansur had a long reign and was accorded by the Ottomans numerous districts in Mount Lebanon and its environs as tax farms.

    He eliminated many of his Sunni rivals, and his local power relied on a Maronite Christian support base and his Maronite agents, namely members of the Hubaysh clan, who served as a check on the Shia Muslim sheikhs of Keserwan. At the peak of his power, Mansur's realm stretched from Beirut to Homs.

    @Indie interesting you mention the Assaf clan. Maronites formed an alliance with the Assafs to weaken Keserwan's mostly Shiite population.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I found this online. Whoever posted it mentions historian Anis Freiha, Father Lammens, and father Al Hattouni & his book The History of the Casa of Keserwan.

    "After the Mamluks destroyed Keserwan, driving its Maronite north and it Shiite population south and east, the Assaf Turkmen clan settled in the Zouks: Zouk Al Amariyeh (currently Amaret Chalhoub), Zouk Mosbeh, and Zouk Mikael to keep guard against the return of the original inhabitants. Each Zouk, or military base, contained 300 soldiers who moved monthly between each base. The base of Zouk, in Zouk Mosbeh, was in the Al Kharaeb or Khara'eb Al Moulook area that was situated in the place of the current Monastery of Christ the King. As for the housing of the soldiers' families, this was located in what is known today as Ha Al Saydeh (the Quarter of Our Lady).

    In Modern and Contemporary Times
    In the battle of Marj Dabek in 1516 that was crowned by the victory of the Ottomans over the Mamluks, the Assaf family sided with the Ottomans and Sultan Selim Khan I appointed them as walis (governors) over Keserwan.

    In that era, the Maronites began to return back or resettle, specifically from the region of Jbeil to live in Keserwan. Zouk Mosbeh received families from Haqel, Jaj, Ghalboon and other villages and in 1701 became one of the largest cities in Keserwan."
    For those interested, I believe the book mentioned by whoever posted this is: Historical Brief on Keserouan Province, by Mansour Tanous Al-Hattouni (Beirut, 1883).

    It's likely out of print, and why it is difficult to find it online, but it is referenced here: Ottoman Past and Today's Turkey
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    New Member
    No the migration to Bekaa started after they were kicked out of Keserwan.

    Assaf dynasty

    The Assaf dynasty (also called Banu Assaf) were a Sunni Muslim and ethnic Turkmen dynasty of chieftains based in the Keserwan region of Mount Lebanon. They came to the aforementioned area in 1306 after being assigned by the Bahri Mamluks to guard the coastal region between Beirut and Jbeil and to check the power of the mostly Shia Muslim population at the time. During this period, they established their headquarters in Ghazir, which served as the Assafs' base throughout their rule.

    Under the leadership of Emir Assaf, they were confirmed as the rulers of Keserwan by Sultan Selim I following the Ottoman conquest in 1516. Emir Assaf died two years later and was succeeded by his son Hasan, who was in turn killed by his brother Qa'itbay. The latter ruled Keserwan until his death without children in 1523, after which he was succeeded by Hasan's son Mansur. Mansur had a long reign and was accorded by the Ottomans numerous districts in Mount Lebanon and its environs as tax farms.

    He eliminated many of his Sunni rivals, and his local power relied on a Maronite Christian support base and his Maronite agents, namely members of the Hubaysh clan, who served as a check on the Shia Muslim sheikhs of Keserwan. At the peak of his power, Mansur's realm stretched from Beirut to Homs.

    @Indie interesting you mention the Assaf clan. Maronites formed an alliance with the Assafs to weaken Keserwan's mostly Shiite population.
    How will they weaken a population if the Maronites lived outside of Kesserwen?

    Ya albe Christians preceded Islam by 700 years. They existed in Lebanon long before Arabs marched to our lands. 500 years is recent history.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Why would I do that?

    I haven't claimed the Maronites persecuted Shiites in this thread.

    I merely pointed out your intellectual bankruptcy, as easy as wanting to "debunk a myth" when you admit you don't have access to a single source, besides what "someone" posted online. You decided it's a myth and then facts would write themselves obviously, LOL!! Ya3ni 3anjad, your intellectual level... shi ktir moukhif.

    Everything else I won't deign with a response cause it's what exposed bankrupts do.
    What a disgusting copout. You clearly have an issue with my claim, so take your own advice and prove my claim wrong. Because, no, I did no such thing as admit I don't have access to a single source. I said what I posted is the only source I could find ONLINE, so far. (Apart from wikipedia, that is).

    And yeah...don't address your years long history of harrassment. Creep.
     
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