Shiia keserwan, Myth or Reality

Jorje

Jorje

Legendary Member
No i am an adept of the Ordo Hereticus tasked with protecting the forum from itself by purging any form of heresy.


There is no greater enemy to the Forum than the man who acts against it
So if we make a comment that this thread is about sectarianism rather than actual history, then it's off topic?
 
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  • !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    really? in the last decade there was some decent although shy Christian presence in iraq and syria, now that is practically gone, we are the last bastillion alongside with the qopts in egypt. so you can rest assured the Christians in the levant have done everything except grow and prosper. if things keep going in this direction there won't be any Christians left in the region within a few decades from now.
    In Lebanon the percentage of christians in increasing. Even if you look at the christian vote it was like 42%. I have no fear for the christians in leb.
    The copts eventhough they get attacked day in and day out 95% stay in the ME. 15 mil in egypt, 500K in sudan snd a 1 mil outside. Strong community.

    The christians of syria and iraq bore a big brunt due to them being rats to the regime. The 1.4 mil christians in iraq and 2.5 mil in syria. Out if the 1.4 in Iraq about 400K stay
    Tayeb fe 1 mil divided by Lebanon, Jordan, Syria. The war in both countries are affecting muslims also in these countries. You just dont see it as much as there is a muslim majority.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    In Lebanon the percentage of christians in increasing. Even if you look at the christian vote it was like 42%. I have no fear for the christians in leb.
    The copts eventhough they get attacked day in and day out 95% stay in the ME. 15 mil in egypt, 500K in sudan snd a 1 mil outside. Strong community.

    The christians of syria and iraq bore a big brunt due to them being rats to the regime. The 1.4 mil christians in iraq and 2.5 mil in syria. Out if the 1.4 in Iraq about 400K stay
    Tayeb fe 1 mil divided by Lebanon, Jordan, Syria. The war in both countries are affecting muslims also in these countries. You just dont see it as much as there is a muslim majority.
    you should not think as such. aslan it is not just a matter of numbers. one should not also find any solace in the decreasing numbers of muslems due to war. Christians are not living up to the role which was intended of them. they became secluded and isolated across the arab world, satisfied that they could perform what little parts of their liturgy they are allowed in public. most of the Christians have become as arid as their desert neighbors and lost their grip on the essence. the situation they find themselves in today is in part due to that. as long as the majority of our people identify as Christians by name, the future will continue to be bleak, for us and for everyone else around us. so it doesn't really matter if they were 1 million in iraq or 10 million if they do nothing but go to church and comeback home without passing the good news along.

    they need to work on a long term strategy, and more importantly they need to relearn the roots of their faith again to assume their full potential and become the beacon of light this region so desperately needs.
     
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    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    you should not think as such. aslan it is not just a matter of numbers. one should not also find any solace in the decreasing numbers of muslems due to war. Christians are not living up to the role which was intended of them. they became secluded and isolated across the arab world, satisfied that they could perform what little parts of their liturgy they are allowed in public. most of the Christians have become as arid as their desert neighbors and lost their grip on the essence. the situation they find themselves in today is in part due to that. as long as the majority of our people identify as Christians by name, the future will continue to be bleak, for us and for everyone else around us. so it doesn't really matter if they were 1 million in iraq or 10 million if they do nothing but go to church and comeback home without passing the good news along.

    they need to work on a long term strategy, and more importantly they need to relearn the roots of their faith again to assume their full potential and become the beacon of light this region so desperately needs.

    You think the situation in the ME is a normal one? People are scared buddy. They have familes etc and you have terrorists and militias all over the place. It is not a normal situation. They are not playing their role and neither is the church.
     
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    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    So if we make a comment that this thread is about sectarianism rather than actual history, then it's off topic?
    Unless you’re pointing out a certain post and expressing an argument then yes.
     
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Well-Known Member
    The topic of this thread is a perfect example of why religion needs to be outlawed in Lebanon. If you can't agree, put up keserwan on auction so that it can neither belong to the Christians nor the Shia. Maybe it can be transformed into a chinatown or little Italy...
     
    NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Legendary Member
    I believe this thread title should be" Christians only Lebanon Myth or Reality", it would be more national and not limited to Keserwan only.
    Then we can discuss if at certain time of History Lebanon was inhabited by Christians only or it is a myth.
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    The topic of this thread is a perfect example of why religion needs to be outlawed in Lebanon. If you can't agree, put up keserwan on auction so that it can neither belong to the Christians nor the Shia. Maybe it can be transformed into a chinatown or little Italy...
    Your sense of humor should be outlawed.
    Holy cow.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    they need to work on a long term strategy, and more importantly they need to relearn the roots of their faith again to assume their full potential and become the beacon of light this region so desperately needs.
    Can you elaborate even more? You put forth fantastic ideas.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Can you elaborate even more? You put forth fantastic ideas.
    it is not my ideas i am putting forth, but rather this is what is inline with our history and with the spirit of Christianity. it is only when people carry the light towards the other that their and that of the other changes for the better, what we have been entrusted with as Christians is not exclusively ours, but it is to be spread where it is the most needed, the only reason why Christianity was on the decline in the region is because Christians have chosen a secluded and isolated life style instead of carrying the message to their muslim brethren. the arab world is so thirsty for spirituality that it is practically begging for the gospel to be brought forward.. thousands upon thousands of testimonies have one thing in common, people are all in tears and crying when they describe how they made that first realization and embraced Christ.

    and that carries with it plenty of social and ideological change which contributes to a better reality for all those involved, it will contribute a more understanding and more tolerant society, and it will decrease the level of tribalism with which we deal with each other.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    You think the situation in the ME is a normal one? People are scared buddy. They have familes etc and you have terrorists and militias all over the place. It is not a normal situation. They are not playing their role and neither is the church.
    well, i am not asking Christians not be scared, but i am simply reminding that to be Christian means that you should not be afraid, no? i understand the need to protect our families and our loved ones, but even if we address the subject on an ideological level, i think the better protection would be provided by putting a definitive end to the ideology that produces ISIS and its likes, or at least to weaken it, and when you possess the ideology that could do just that, it means you have the upper hand.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    well, i am not asking Christians not be scared, but i am simply reminding that to be Christian means that you should not be afraid, no? i understand the need to protect our families and our loved ones, but even if we address the subject on an ideological level, i think the better protection would be provided by putting a definitive end to the ideology that produces ISIS and its likes, or at least to weaken it, and when you possess the ideology that could do just that, it means you have the upper hand.
    The problem is that the christians of Syria and Iraq were dependent on the state. The copts had their own mini state and dont care about the state nor dependent on it. They are good survivors actually. The christians of Syria and Iraq are just whimps and just go with the flow.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    The problem is that the christians of Syria and Iraq were dependent on the state. The copts had their own mini state and dont care about the state nor dependent on it. They are good survivors actually. The christians of Syria and Iraq are just whimps and just go with the flow.
    7ake hayyin. It was almost impossible for the Christians to create a mini-state in Iraq given their small number and Iraq's big geography. In Syria, the Druzes model can be replicated but the Christians are not as centralized in one particular area and don't have the alliance that the Druzes have with other Druzes in neighboring such as Israel and Lebanon.
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    7ake hayyin. It was almost impossible for the Christians to create a mini-state in Iraq given their small number and Iraq's big geography. In Syria, the Druzes model can be replicated but the Christians are not as centralized in one particular area and don't have the alliance that the Druzes have with other Druzes in neighboring such as Israel and Lebanon.
    These are just excuses. What is the number of the druze in leb? syria? What is the number of christians in syria? Leb? The christians of syria iza kan badoun they could have been allied to the christian lebanese but they are slaves to the regime.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    LOLs I don't know why this thread reminded me of this song :rolleyes:


    حبوا بعضن

    بيقولوا الحب بيقتل الوقت
    وبيقولوا الوقت بيقتل الحب
    يا حبيبي تعا تا نروح
    قبل الوقت وقبل الحب

    بديت القصة تحت الشتي
    بأول شتي حبو بعضن
    وخلصت القصة بتاني شتي
    تحت الشتي تركوا بعضن

    حبو بعضن
    تركوا بعضن
    يا حبيبي شو نفع البكي
    شو إلو معنى بعد الحكي
    مازالا قصص كبيري
    وليالي سهر وغيري
    بتخلص بكلمي زغيري

    حبو بعضن ... تركوا بعضن
    وكانت القصة تحت الشتي
    بأول شتى حبو بعضن
    وخلصت القصة بتاني شتي
    تحت الشتي تركوا بعضن
    حبو بعضن ... تركوا بعضن


    كلمات: الأخوين رحباني
    ألحان: زياد رحباني
    مقام: نهوند
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    Yes, Keserwan was overwhelmingly Shiite. My ancestors were expelled to Northern Jbeil during 1569 from Keserwan. There is certainly no denying that the natives were Christians. So while all of Lebanese Muslims (and Druzes') ancestors were all Maronites who converted. We're all connected ;)
     
    Resign

    Resign

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yes, Keserwan was overwhelmingly Shiite. My ancestors were expelled to Northern Jbeil during 1569 from Keserwan. There is certainly no denying that the natives were Christians. So while all of Lebanese Muslims (and Druzes') ancestors were all Maronites who converted. We're all connected ;)
    But what about the shiites of Bekaa/south?
    Weren’t they from Yemen ?
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    But what about the shiites of Bekaa/south?
    Weren’t they from Yemen ?
    We already have genetic evidence that most (if not all) of Lebanese people regardless of religion are native. Most of these folk tales are myths, if not all actually. Suddenly every Shiite has become a tribesmen from Yemen.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    We already have genetic evidence that most (if not all) of Lebanese people regardless of religion are native. Most of these folk tales are myths, if not all actually. Suddenly every Shiite has become a tribesmen from Yemen.
    I have yemenite ancestry, am i a folk tale too?
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    I have yemenite ancestry, am i a folk tale too?
    I clearly said most of them. If you want to know then do a DNA test and see if you score any South Arabian admixture (i.e Yemeni-Omani) on a genetic calculator.
     
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