Should a neo-Phoenician language be introduced in Lebanon?

Dalzi

Dalzi

Legendary Member
Modern Standard Arabic (fos7a) is a dead language.
Also, Phoenician and Lebanese Arabic represent more our culture, fos7a represent the culture of the Khalijis.
Hebrew was a dead language, and used to only be used in liturgy, but the Jews, who are a people who respect their history, managed to revive it and give it a modern form.
Also, what good did the Arabic culture (which is foreign to the Levant) bring uis?
Classical Arabic is 'dead'? lol

Khlaijis represent nothing and they are representatives of nothing other than a pre-historic mentality that rejects everything related to knowledge and science. Without the Levant, there is no Arabism. The spoken Arabic dialect of the Levant is closest to classical Arabic than any other spoken Arabic in the world. The Levant knows how to take, preserve and develop.
 
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  • Yassine

    Yassine

    Member
    النسب إلى شرقي الجزيرة العربية- بلاد مكران

    أما سترابون (64ق.م ـ 19م)، الجغرافي الروماني، أشار إلى أن المقابر الموجودة في جزر البحرين تشابه مقابر الفنيقيين، وان سكان هذه الجزر يذكرون أن أسماء جزائرهم ومدنهم هي أسماء فينقية. وقال أيضاً إن في هذه المدن هياكل تشبه الهياكل الفينيقية. ومن الأدلة التي تدعم هذه النظرية، أسماء في شرق الجزيرة العربية تحمل نفس أسماء المدن التي أنشأها الفينيقيون على الساحل السوري. مثل (صور) على ساحل عُمان، و(جُبَيْل) وجزيرة أرواد (ارواد وهي الاسم القديم لجزيرة المحرّق في البحرين.[4] وجزيرة تاروت بالقطيف التي تقارب اسم مدينة بيروت بلبنان وقد عثر بتاروت والقطيف اثار فينيقية كثيرة.

    كما يذكر جان جاك بيريبى أن الفنيقيين انطلقوا من مكران إلى الساحل الشامي حيث بنوا مدنهم وأنشؤوا حضارتهم التي نشروها في البحر الأبيض المتوسط. وأما فرنسيس لزمان مؤلف "تاريخ الشرق القديم" فيرى انهم "سلكوا طريق القوافل من القطيف إلى وادي غطفان وجبل طويق في نجد. ثم مروا بالوشم والقصيم فالحناكية. ومنها ساروا في الطريق التي يسلكها الحجاج في كل سنة[5]. وقال أمين الريحاني: "ما أجمع عليه المؤرخون والآثريون أن الفنيقيين مثل العرب ساميون. بل أنهم عرب الأصل. نزحوا من الشواطئ العربية الشرقية على الخليج العربي، من القطيف ومن البحرين إلى سواحل البحر المتوسط في قديم الزمان"[6].

    وقد جاء في الجزء الثاني من لغة العرب "...والظاهر أنهم (أي الكنعانيين ـ الفينيقيين) من أصل عربي فقد نقلت التقاليد القديمة أنهم ظعنوا من الديار المجاورة للخليج العربي إلى سواحل البحر الأبيض المتوسط"[بحاجة لمصدر].

    وقال هنري راولینسون ان أصل الفنيقيين (الكنعانيين) من سكان البحرين والقطيف في الخليج العربي. ظعنوا من هناك إلى سواحل الشام منذ نحو خمسة آلاف سنة. وانهم عرب بأصولهم وان هناك مدناً فنيقية أسماؤها فنيقية مثل صور وجبيل وارواد.[7]


    scientific research have lead to the conclusion that lebanese are in fact the descendents of phoenicians, which means, we are not really arab. So my question is, since phoenician is our true identity, shouldn't we try to revive the phoenician language? That doesn't mean you should forget arabic, we can learn both language or create a mixed language reflection more adequatly our identity and our culture.
     
    shadow1

    shadow1

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Mon très cher Shadow,

    En vérité, vous me fendîtes tant le coeur qu'à la pensée d'être l'un des rares rescapés du flamboyant passé francophone de ma très chère et tendre mère patrie, aux côtés de mes tantes sises à Ashrafieh ou Reyfoun (que Dieu ait leur âme) voire de mes compatriotes parisianistes patentés (que François Hollande saisisse leurs portefeuilles, pauvre bougres), je décidai d'ouvrir une vieille bouteille de scotch, ce cognac du pauvre. Encore un verre et j'eus terminé ce si peu divin breuvage, dans le temps habituellement prescrit, sans avoir contemplé le désert francophone qui pourtant s'étend chaque jour un peu plus.
    I looked at it from a practical side. I had no intention or desire to break your heart and not in any implicit way to belittle the language that gave us Balzac and Proust, Hugo and Zola, Rousseau and voltaire. I wasn't even denigrating what I adimittedly believe is one of the major contributors to world civilisation in science and arts not to mention their superb haute couture, culinary charms, and yes yes these fabulous scents that make us desirable to others.

    Considering that more than half of the English words come directly from French as a result of the Norman conquest in the battle of Hastings is a testament to the great cointribution French made to English. Imagine taking these words out and what do you have left? A language bereft of any ability to express anything save for the most rudimentary of thoughts and emotions.

    If I could only close my eyes, and transport myself through time and space to a cottage in Reyfoun. To the south East you have the majesty of Sanine and from the foothills of the mountain all the way to Antelias a strectch of chaotic buildings looking like a future slum. Hills and valleys, once of majestic beauty, " Jamais pays de plaine, quelque beau qu'il fût, ne parut tel à mes yeux. Il me faut des torrents, des rochers, des sapins, des bois noirs, des montagnes, des chemins raboteux à monter et à descendre, des précipices à mes côtés, qui me fassent bien peur". Just picture it, with your aunts sitting around discussing les Confessions or la Condition Humaine with eyes on those commas for one misplaced or overlooked could alter a whole meaning and all these academic endeavours in St Joseph Aintoura would've been in vain. There is a charming piquancy to the whole ambience: well mannered, impeccable grace, a strict and punctilious adherence to every article in the book of etiquettes. Quite befitting a petite bourgeoisie with all the delicate demands of a life steeped in traditions and stuctures, in habits and patterns and unmistakingly proud.

    A voice rings out, the East Asian maid comes out of her room and a shot of Cognac ordered for the honoured guest with his parisian wife being made to feel so welcome amongst a group of people well versed in the Napoleonic code known as just the civil code. Yes it has done those poor souls a great deal but was superceded by countless laws from countless civilisations.

    No need for you to take offence or to consider my posting as even a smither of an insult but this was the past. Nowadays we say LOL not PDS. We could embrace the future or wallow in the sentimentality of a past knowing that its most appropriate place is in museums and not in minds.

    As for your phoenecian words that infiltraded the arabic language I am not one with any authority on the subject and much less knowledge than I would like to admit but yes I do agree Ce qui devrait être introduit au Liban n'est pas tant un nouveau langage ou un nouvel alphabet, mais plutôt une conscience et c'est là un autre sujet.

    P.S good try at your passe simple and subjonctif but I still hate them.
     
    Chris306

    Chris306

    Member
    so you want the Lebanese to adopt a language that does not exist (arabo-phoenician) to replace Arabic, the language used in all News Channels, newspapers, articles,..etc?

    this whole phoenician obsession is something people get over when they are 12.
    While in Lebanon, I read The Daily Star or L'Orient-Le Jour.
     
    Reynold

    Reynold

    Member
    While in Lebanon, I read The Daily Star or L'Orient-Le Jour.
    you're too cool for Arabic. Arabic is demode :tongue:

    ever heard the expression
    طربوش جدك بعدو معلق ع التينة

    on another note, I met a Lebanese guy the other day who when asked what ethnicity he was answered "Phoenician American"
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

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    Orange Room Supporter
    you're too cool for Arabic. Arabic is demode :tongue:

    ever heard the expression
    طربوش جدك بعدو معلق ع التينة

    on another note, I met a Lebanese guy the other day who when asked what ethnicity he was answered "Phoenician American"
    Arabic is hard to read, especially for us living in non-Arabophone countries.
     
    Chris306

    Chris306

    Member
    you're too cool for Arabic. Arabic is demode :tongue:

    ever heard the expression
    طربوش جدك بعدو معلق ع التينة

    on another note, I met a Lebanese guy the other day who when asked what ethnicity he was answered "Phoenician American"
    I am not too cool for Arabic, it is not my language.

    My first language is English and my ethnicity is Lebanese.

    If Arabic were my primary language, I wouldn't be ashamed to say so - but it's not, so it has no value to me.
     
    Reynold

    Reynold

    Member
    I am not too cool for Arabic, it is not my language.

    My first language is English and my ethnicity is Lebanese.

    If Arabic were my primary language, I wouldn't be ashamed to say so - but it's not, so it has no value to me.
    well, there are more people who's primary language is Armenian or Kurdish than English in Lebanon than English.

    I use English with my parents and siblings at home and Arabic with the outside world, but I'm not a typical example and neither are you. We're just a little westernized.
     
    Chris306

    Chris306

    Member
    well, there are more people who's primary language is Armenian or Kurdish than English in Lebanon than English.

    I use English with my parents and siblings at home and Arabic with the outside world, but I'm not a typical example and neither are you. We're just a little westernized.
    Well then why do some refer to themselves as Arabs?

    1) My culture is not Arabic
    2) My language is not Arabic
    3) My blood is Lebanese

    Armenians in Lebanon are still Armenian, as Kurds also remain Kurds despite their Lebanese nationality!

    About the "little westernized" comment if I may add, put me around a bunch of Egyptians and I feel like an alien.

    I have, and always have had, more in common with Joe or Bob then Abu Moukhtar or Mohd Lofti Abdul Rahman, and it's not even close.
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Well then why do some refer to themselves as Arabs?

    1) My culture is not Arabic
    2) My language is not Arabic
    3) My blood is Lebanese

    Armenians in Lebanon are still Armenian, as Kurds also remain Kurds despite their Lebanese nationality!

    About the "little westernized" comment if I may add, put me around a bunch of Egyptians and I feel like an alien.

    I have, and always have had, more in common with Joe or Bob then Abu Moukhtar or Mohd Lofti Abdul Rahman, and it's not even close.
    What's the language you speak at home and what's the native language of your parents?

    My little bro started speaking French before Arabic, is he not an "Arab"?

    I used to feel like an lien when I was in Lebanon, but that doesn't make me a Westerner.
     
    Chris306

    Chris306

    Member
    What's the language you speak at home and what's the native language of your parents?

    My little bro started speaking French before Arabic, is he not an Arab?
    Well I grew up speaking English as I was raised in Canada, but my parents always spoke Arabic to my Grandparents.

    I don't know, is your Brother an Arab? Is Arab his culture, traditions, ethnicity? That is your guess. Many of us do not identify as Arabs.

    And for those of us who do not have Arabic as our primary or mother tongue, why should we goabouts referring to ourselves as such?

    ...each to their own.
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Well I grew up speaking English as I was raised in Canada, but my parents always spoke Arabic to my Grandparents.

    I don't know, is your Brother an Arab? Is Arab his culture, traditions, ethnicity? That is your guess. Many of us do not identify as Arabs.

    And for those of us who do not have Arabic as our primary or mother tongue, why should we goabouts referring to ourselves as such?

    ...each to their own.
    He shares the same culture as us, which is Arab culture.
    I don't like to classify myself as an Arab, but I feel like I have no choice, because that's how I'm defined and my parents consider themeselves Arab and share the Arabic culture (which I too share).
    So, you don't speak Arabic?
     
    Chris306

    Chris306

    Member
    He shares the same culture as us, which is Arab culture.
    I don't like to classify myself as an Arab, but I feel like I have no choice, because that's how I'm defined and my parents consider themeselves Arab and share the Arabic culture (which I too share).
    So, you don't speak Arabic?
    I speak enough to survive :)

    If you don't like to classify yourself as an Arab, then you shouldn't...

    If you feel you identity with these "people," then by all means.
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    How about having the lebanese language as official language? And use it in writing aswell i mean,
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    How about having the lebanese language as official language? And use it in writing aswell i mean,
    Yeah. Havinga formal version of the Lebanese dialect, that would be better for us. Brazil has it's own version of formal Portugueuse, Americans have their own version of formal English, why shouldn't we be able to do the same?
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Some already use Lebanese language as an official distinct language:

    http://www.lebaneselanguage.org/lll-system/lebanese-latin-letters/



    Can you now read this --This is from Said Akl's magazin "Lebnaan"?:




    ***

    There is also a book for children to teach Lebanese language.
    Lol, this is ridiculous. And why should the Latin alphabet be used? To make us more "modern"? Lol @ this being called a language. Clearly, writing Lebanese words with the Arabic script will show that it's just a variety of Arabic.
     
    Republican

    Republican

    Legendary Member
    (...) And why should the Latin alphabet be used? To make us more "modern"? (...)
    I think it is more of a political statement Robin; let's not forget that Saiid Akl was one of the pioneers of the Arab language and one of the early figures of Arabic poetry modernist movement in the 20th century.

    Saiid Akl radical approach and animosity to Arabism --and almost anything Arab-- was largely shaped during the Lebanese civil war.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    I think it is more of a political statement Robin; let's not forget that Saiid Akl was one of the pioneers of the Arab language and one of the early figures of Arabic poetry modernist movement in the 20th century.

    Saiid Akl radical approach and animosity to Arabism --and almost anything Arab-- was largely shaped during the Lebanese civil war.
    Don't you think it's mental to be 'Said Akl' and want to butcher Arabic like that, and have a hairstyle like that? Insanity is the parent of creativity, so maybe his craziness is excused.
     
    DLT

    DLT

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    Correct me If I am mistaken but doesn't Lebanese itself has Phoenician words? why do we speak not like we write? should Lebanese be recognized as a language and be differentiated from standard Arabic?
     
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