Should a neo-Phoenician language be introduced in Lebanon?

DLT

DLT

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
We are, that's a scientific fact. What new generation? Some throw words into the garbage while others know perfect Arabic. It's always been that way. Code switching is voluntary. Kella maye3a lol

Oh and for the record, if trying to kill the language is the aim that will never happen especially that it's the language of the Quran. Kids nowadays are learning what my generation didn't. It's common to find a parent who can't string a proper sentence with a kid who reads and writes. Out of frustration at his inability to comprehend the language he teaches his kid.
Scientifically Lebanese is the least least least similar to Arabic, and Arabic is already dying a slow and painful death :)
Today, everyone is interested in dialects no one cares about Arabic unless you wanna learn the Koran...
 
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  • Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    Scientifically Lebanese is the least least least similar to Arabic, and Arabic is already dying a slow and painful death :)
    Today, everyone is interested in dialects no one cares about Arabic unless you wanna learn the Koran...
    lol dakhilak enta wl scientific taba3ak :p
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    :p
    yalla let's create Lebanese with latin letters :p

    :p
    Nope. Arabic lettering is prettier than latin. I like to know and have both (and more if I had the time. I'd learn Chinese if I could).

    You asked who cares about Arabic. I care and most care and will always care. I identify as an Arab, am proud of it and will always be, and my idols are Arab figures. I will teach my kids Arabic and hope that they would excel in all languages they learn, and if they're going to use unnecessary code switching in speech ra7 yeklouha 2atle nshallah yetla3o menna taybeen. ziki miki ma fi.
     
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    DLT

    DLT

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Nope. Arabic lettering is prettier than latin. I like to know and have both (and more if I had the time. I'd learn Chinese if I could).

    You asked who cares about Arabic. I care and most care and will always care. I identify as an Arab, am proud of it and will always be, and my idols are Arab figures. I will teach my kids Arabic and hope that they would excel in all languages they learn, and if they're going to use unnecessary code switching in speech ra7 yeklouha 2atle nshallah yetla3o menna taybeen. ziki miki ma fi.
    Good for you and your kids ya Dalzi (bas bala al 3enef) :p
    But the rest of us we don't care about it as an everyday language, ya3neh it's a beautiful language for literature w hekeh but for an everyday language it's useless since we don't speak it and most Lebanese around the world doesn't write in ARABIC LETTERS. So, dalzi chou ra2yik, how do we represent the "AYN" sound with which LATIN letter aw 3andik gheir METHODE?
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Mon très cher Shadow,

    En vérité, vous me fendîtes tant le coeur qu'à la pensée d'être l'un des rares rescapés du flamboyant passé francophone de ma très chère et tendre mère patrie, aux côtés de mes tantes sises à Ashrafieh ou Reyfoun (que Dieu ait leur âme) voire de mes compatriotes parisianistes patentés (que François Hollande saisisse leurs portefeuilles, pauvre bougres), je décidai d'ouvrir une vieille bouteille de scotch, ce cognac du pauvre. Encore un verre et j'eus terminé ce si peu divin breuvage, dans le temps habituellement prescrit, sans avoir contemplé le désert francophone qui pourtant s'étend chaque jour un peu plus.

    Car vous le savez bien, le voile de la naïveté et de l'optimisme conjugué à la chappe de plomb alcoolisée faisant son oeuvre, je trouvai bien des mots français d'origine sémitique...horreur, phénicienne ! Europe ! Europe ! Ne se désignent-ils pas tous Européens ? Que ces anciens Francs, Wisigoths, Burgondes, Celtes, Ligures, Romains, Gaulois, et autres Grecs (anciens et nouveaux) se trouvent habiter un continent dont le nom fut donné par une princesse phénicienne, fille d'un roi de Tyr, selon la tradition de l'ancienne mythologie grecque...quelle heureuse providence ! Europe, ça a plus de gueule que flouse - encore un terme français, dérivant d'un terme arabe maghrébin et maltais, lui-même dérivant du phénicien...

    Et là j'en viens au sujet de notre ami Robin. Rien ne se perd, en vérité, et alors que les Libanais et autres peuples se définissant arabes croient parler l'arabe, ils ne font que perpetuer l'emploi de termes et de mots...phéniciens : Bayt, Ibn, Battn, Damm, Bena, 3amoud, 3adou, Ahel, Kaleb, Malak, etc. L'Arabe ne serait-il pas, finalement, une forme de néo-phénicien ? Ce qui devrait être introduit au Liban n'est pas tant un nouveau langage ou un nouvel alphabet, mais plutôt une conscience et c'est là un autre sujet.

    Mais j'en reviens au français et à votre jugement vite expédié. Je suis triste que vous ayez capitulé face à cette langue de vipère trop facilement répandue par cette bien perfide Albion, à cause d'une table, d'une chaise, d'un ordinateur ou d'un stylo. N'eut été pour ces richesses, combien de misérables n'auraient pas lu Victor Hugo ? Combien de peuplades, soumises aux coutumes et règles d'anciens régimes, ne se seraient développées en civilisations grâce au Code Napoléon - certes et je vous le concède, empalé sur la baïonette de chaque grognard de l'Armée impériale. Et combien de malheureux optimistes n'auraient pas finalement décider de cultiver leur jardin, suivant en cela l'exemple de Candide ?
    Can you please translate to Phoenician ?

    Thanks
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    Good for you and your kids ya Dalzi (bas bala al 3enef) :p
    But the rest of us we don't care about it as an everyday language, ya3neh it's a beautiful language for literature w hekeh but for an everyday language it's useless since we don't speak it and most Lebanese around the world doesn't write in ARABIC LETTERS. So, dalzi chou ra2yik, how do we represent the "AYN" sound with which LATIN letter aw 3andik gheir METHODE?
    You speak English at home with your relatives in Lebanon? lol

    I don't bother myself with transliteration because I know the language, but many have already gone through the trouble of designing latin Arabic letters for religious educational purposes. You can check out this link for example: Quraan Transliteration
    Or this Transliteration of The Holy Quran in Roman Script with English and Arabic

    ... and there are many more ideas and methods.
     
    DLT

    DLT

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You speak English at home with your relatives in Lebanon? lol

    I don't bother myself with transliteration because I know the language, but many have already gone through the trouble of designing latin Arabic letters for religious educational purposes. You can check out this link for example: Quraan Transliteration
    Or this Transliteration of The Holy Quran in Roman Script with English and Arabic

    ... and there are many more ideas and methods.
    We speak Lebanese.
    We chat in latin letters
    and yes they used the IPA for the Quraan transliteration.
    Good for you if you don't need latin letters but some people do like to write/chat in their language properly.

    fa ezan ween el mechkle, kelna rebxanin w 'am njarreb nleeqe tariqa mecheen nektob heeke :D

    i: long i
    e: short i and the é sound too
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

    Legendary Member
    Well in this forum for example the trend is to write in english . (a foreign language and have nothing to do with us as lebanese ).
    Its ashaming that we havn't a standard language , and it is a huge issue , because language can unite a people and create its own identity ... I am not a linguistic expert (me myself i speak fluently 4 languages ) but i think there is lot of work to do to reshape our current language on a scientific basis and the language issue must be a concern for the lebanese state ..reshape mean cleaning ( the term used by linguistics ) and define its grammar and to promote litterature and culture , and that have effect on brodcast companies ( radio , televisions , journals , magazines ) and hopefully we can finally get a decent music after a decade of trash music . :D ( hopefully ) and most important. Is to translate all scientific books to a common language .. Since most of people study in french or english ..and that have a big importance ..... The matter is which language is : we stick to arabic ? We pick the french ? Or lately we are mostly oriented to english ( for no valid reason ) .. Or to invent a lebanese proper laguage with latin based alphabet ? I dunno and a tip from a language expert would be useful ... But i still agree that that issue is for the utmost matter ...and all that must be done in lebanon and lebanese immigrants must have no influence on it since the pluritongues of lebanese made of lebanese dialect a cocktail of foreign words ..
    It would be beautiful studying the old phenician language ( as they do in europe by stydying latin and old greek ) , or assyrian ( let it be a course by choice ) ... But we must not forget that for political reason ( without any historical logic) we became by constitution an arab country .. Changing the term "ذو وجه عربي" ... And seems that no one objected it and all are ok with..imagine that i happen to hear some peoples from lebanese forces eloging the arabism (....) since their new alliace with saudi :D.. With lot of we arabs and arab identity ( mainly ouwet working in khaleej ). :D . ( like herbeye they change their colours ) ...
     
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    DLT

    DLT

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    I feel like Oroomers should together create a standard Lebanese language and start using it in the Oroom.
     
    Dalzi

    Dalzi

    Legendary Member
    We speak Lebanese.
    We chat in latin letters
    and yes they used the IPA for the Quraan transliteration.
    Good for you if you don't need latin letters but some people do like to write/chat in their language properly.

    fa ezan ween el mechkle, kelna rebxanin w 'am njarreb nleeqe tariqa mecheen nektob heeke :D

    i: long i
    e: short i and the é sound too
    So you speak Arabic not English with teta.

    I never have time to chat, but when I message I use Arabic with speakers of Arabic and English with others.

    Where did the slap button go?
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

    Legendary Member
    So you speak Arabic not English with teta.

    I never have time to chat, but when I message I use Arabic with speakers of Arabic and English with others.

    Where did the slap button go?
    so do u consdider spoken lebanese a proper arabic ?
     
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    DLT

    DLT

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    So you speak Arabic not English with teta.

    I never have time to chat, but when I message I use Arabic with speakers of Arabic and English with others.

    Where did the slap button go?
    yes dalzi we speak lebanese.
    and not only chatting, I mean posting in forums too... :rolleyes:

    Wouldn't it be nice to chat/post in Lebanese with latin letters?
    Let's face it rarely do people chat/post in Lebanese with arabic letters.


    Slap button, eh? So you want to use violence against me because I am a man?
    @Indie
     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    You were told? That's scientifically inaccurate. The Levant, has out of some bizzare evolutionary process (Mother language and education have a big role), preserved the polished version. They are the best at everything they do!
    I am certainly not referring to a dekanji that told me, rather a linguist specializing in Semitic languages. I said I was told to put it in the right context as I am not one to falsely claim otherwise. Wa iqtada el tawdi7.

    The main premise of my statement is that Arabic in the Levant mixed with the older local language to become the spoken Levantine Arabic we all use. Same thing happened in Iraq, Egypt and North Africa. Supporting this premise is the research mentioned in this thread. You can also dig further in the reference section of Wikipedia Levantine Arabic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Based on the latter, the Arabian peninsula would be the place where the original Arabic did not mix with anything, thus logically (or scientifically if you prefer) the spoken language of that area would be the closest to the original form.
    Kids who learn the classic understand the news, Arabs teach their kids the classic and that's why they understand, while we don't (or didn't cz it's changed now). My relatives (adults) don't understand the news too lol They have Quran in Latin the losers :D Have you seen those books?
    That actually pretty much supports what I said, which is that spoken Levantine diverged enough from the original Arabic to the point that Levantine speakers would not understand the classic without learning it formally.
    Halla2 you want to preserve the classic, or whether the classic learned by the Lebanese is the closest to the original, that's a whole other story.
     
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    F

    feng

    New Member
    Sorry for reviving this thread. But at least I'm not reviving a 3000 year old language.

    Anyway I just want to add something which most people seem to miss.
    If you think that we are phoenicians, let me suggest that you start with yourself by learning the Phoenician language and the culture. If you like it then maybe we will follow and you can teach us.

    Regarding the language once you get past the the different alphabet which is slightly annoying (understatement), you will see that it is amazing the number of similarities between Phoenician language and Arabic.

    Maybe you will be disappointed and you will come back here screaming about how Arabs stole our language.

    Also the funniest reply here is the one suggesting that we all go back to speaking some prehistoric African language because that is where human beings originated from.

    Nice discussion.
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    Sorry for reviving this thread. But at least I'm not reviving a 3000 year old language.

    Anyway I just want to add something which most people seem to miss.
    If you think that we are phoenicians, let me suggest that you start with yourself by learning the Phoenician language and the culture. If you like it then maybe we will follow and you can teach us.

    Regarding the language once you get past the the different alphabet which is slightly annoying (understatement), you will see that it is amazing the number of similarities between Phoenician language and Arabic.

    Maybe you will be disappointed and you will come back here screaming about how Arabs stole our language.

    Also the funniest reply here is the one suggesting that we all go back to speaking some prehistoric African language because that is where human beings originated from.

    Nice discussion.
    Arabic is closely connected to Aramaic, and a bit to Hebrew.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    Sorry for reviving this thread. But at least I'm not reviving a 3000 year old language.
    The language has already been revived. Phoenician = Biblical Hebrew. Modern Hebrew is almost identical to Biblical Hebrew, only a bit more Aramaic-influenced. The language never completely disappeared, it was preserved by Jewish rabbis for over two thousand years until it was completely revived last century. It's kinda like the Copt language, the Copt population no longer speak it but the priests still know it.. it's just waiting to be revived.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    They have many similarities but not "almost identical" at all.
    How come? Far closer to each other than Modern and Ancient Greek, for example. They had to adopt Aramaic and even Arabic loanwords for modern words that didn't exist in ancient Hebrew when they were reviving the language since it was essentially used only liturgically, but aside from that the language is basically the same

    True Palestinian is a professional linguistic and speaks Hebrew and could explain this very detailedly, a shame he was unfairly banned.
     
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