Should the law punishing anyone who insults the president be abolished ?

Should the law punishing anyone who insults the president be abolished ?

  • Yes. It is against the freedom of speech and should be removed

    Votes: 15 83.3%
  • No. Nobody should dare insult the president

    Votes: 3 16.7%
  • I don't know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    18
JustLeb

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The recent issue concerning Marcel Ghanem and the guests who insulted the president on his show, triggered the discussion of the usefulness of a law that punishes anyone insulting the president.
Can this law be considered against the freedom of speech ?
The idea here is not to legalise the insults, especially against a public figure and in particular the president, but the neutrality of the state regarding a heated political debate.
Of course the president, like every citizen, has the right to file a lawsuit for defamation and appoint a lawyer to represent him in a court of law, but he does that in his personal capacity and not use the state resources.

There are no such laws in the western democratic countries or if they exist they are not enforced.
For example anyone can harshly criticise, even insult the French president without having any legal issues.
 
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  • JustLeb

    JustLeb

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    For those who did not see this video, you can see how President Sarkozy was received by the fishermen

     
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    JustLeb

    JustLeb

    Legendary Member
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    While in Lebanon there were several arrests in 2017 related to such law

    Lebanon: Activist Charged for Facebook Post Criticizing Politicians
    (Beirut) – A Lebanese activist was arrested on March 21, 2017, and faces charges over a Facebook post criticizing public officials, Human Rights Watch said today. The arrest and detention of the activist, Ahmad Amhaz, is incompatible with Lebanon’s human rights obligations. Lebanese authorities should immediately release him and stop bringing charges for criticizing public officials.

    Hanadi Gergès toujours détenue pour un post sur Facebook critiquant Aoun
    Hanadi Gergès, jeune Libanaise de 27 ans, a été arrêtée vendredi soir pour diffusion sur les réseaux sociaux des messages s'en prenant au chef de l'État Michel Aoun et au gouvernement. Elle n'est pas la première personne à être arrêtée pour avoir publié des messages jugés diffamatoires à l'égard de certains responsables. Selman Samaha, Bassel el-Amine, Ramzi Kadi, Ahmad Amhaz, et bien d'autres avaient eux aussi subi le même sort que Hanadi Gergès.
     
    mikeys71

    mikeys71

    Well-Known Member
    I voted yes it’s against freedom of speech, but who am I kidding ??? Freedom of speech comes packaged with democracy and that does not exist in Lebanon the farm. Maybe 100 years from now and we play catch-up with the third world we may be able to practice freedom of speech.
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    The recent issue concerning Marcel Ghanem and the guests who insulted the president on his show, triggered the discussion of the usefulness of a law that punishes anyone insulting the president.
    Can this law be considered against the freedom of speech ?
    The idea here is not to legalise the insults, especially against a public figure and in particular the president, but the neutrality of the state regarding a heated political debate.
    Of course the president, like every citizen, has the right to file a lawsuit for defamation and appoint a lawyer to represent him in a court of law, but he does that in his personal capacity and not use the state resources.

    There are no such laws in the western democratic countries or if they exist they are not enforced.
    For example anyone can harshly criticise, even insult the French president without having any legal issues.
    In the US you can say whatever you want about the President. You cannot however threaten the President, that is illegal.
     
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    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    @Abou Sandal fata7lak @JustLeb thread jdid ta tjewbo, weinak ya zalme :)
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The recent issue concerning Marcel Ghanem and the guests who insulted the president on his show, triggered the discussion of the usefulness of a law that punishes anyone insulting the president.
    Can this law be considered against the freedom of speech ?
    The idea here is not to legalise the insults, especially against a public figure and in particular the president, but the neutrality of the state regarding a heated political debate.
    Of course the president, like every citizen, has the right to file a lawsuit for defamation and appoint a lawyer to represent him in a court of law, but he does that in his personal capacity and not use the state resources.

    There are no such laws in the western democratic countries or if they exist they are not enforced.
    For example anyone can harshly criticise, even insult the French president without having any legal issues.
    defamation and slander are not categorized as free speech in Canada, also speech aimed at causing harm to members of the community do not fall within free speech.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
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    If you want us to vote, you should post the text of the law so that we may vote as informed voters.
     
    R

    Ralph N

    Well-Known Member
    Guys insulting is insult... its now allowed to a normal human being...
    No one should dare insult the President or Batrack or Moufi etc...

    But we can criticize.. we can give an honest and noble opinion about anyone at anytime...why the insult? is it a must in a democratic nation?..its not...
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
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    Actually, the Saudi journalist did not insult Aoun. He accused him of giving political cover to Hizbullah's operations outside Lebanese territory.
    This is what he said:
    عون لا يقل جرمًا عن حسن نصر الله، فهو من صمت عن عمليات حزب الله الإرهابية وعدوانه على المملكة، وقدم مصلحته الشخصية على مصلحة لبنان واستقراره بدعمه لميليشيات إرهابية.. عون شريك في الإرهاب وفي الحرب على المملكة

    Now I have to remind you that Hizbullah is considered a terrorist organization by the EU, USA, Australia, Canada, and most of the Arab world.
    So when Aoun stays mum on Hizbullah's actions in Yemen, he is indeed giving Hizbullah tacit approval to attack Saudi Arabia.

    When you're the head of state, you can't dissociate yourself from having a "terrorist" component within your government. As a president you're not only responsible for your actions, but for the actions of everyone under you.

    Therefore, I don't think Ibrahim Al Merhi's comments fall under defamation or slander, but freedom of speech. There are those who consider Hizbullah a freedom fighter, and those who consider it a terrorist organization. Like the majority of the world, Al Merhi happens to belong to the latter.

    Aoun has the right to sue for libel if he believes he was wrongly accused. However, I think Marcel was only doing his job when he gave a platform to a different opinion.
     
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    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
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    Actually, the Saudi journalist did not insult Aoun. He accused him of giving political cover to Hizbullah's operations outside Lebanese territory.
    This is what he said:
    عون لا يقل جرمًا عن حسن نصر الله، فهو من صمت عن عمليات حزب الله الإرهابية وعدوانه على المملكة، وقدم مصلحته الشخصية على مصلحة لبنان واستقراره بدعمه لميليشيات إرهابية.. عون شريك في الإرهاب وفي الحرب على المملكة

    Now I have to remind you that Hizbullah is considered a terrorist organization by the EU, USA, Australia, Canada, and most of the Arab world.
    So when Aoun stays mum on Hizbullah's actions in Yemen, he is indeed giving Hizbullah tacit approval to attack Saudi Arabia.

    When you're the head of state, you can't dissociate yourself from having a "terrorist" component within your government. As a president you're not only responsible for your actions, but for the actions of everyone under you.

    Therefore, I don't think Ibrahim Al Merhi's comments fall under defamation or slander, but freedom of speech. There are those who consider Hizbullah a freedom fighter, and those who consider it a terrorist organization. Like the majority of the world, Al Merhi happens to belong to the latter.

    Aoun has the right to sue for libel if he believes he was wrongly accused. However, I think Marcel was only doing his job when he gave a platform to a different opinion.
    Clearly he is saying Aoun is a criminal and a supporter of terrorism. He also referred to Hezbollah as a terrorist group, when Lebanon does not categorize the group as terrorist. So, there is an issue in here as well. Now, he should provide evidence to this allegation against Aoun otherwise legally it does fall under a crime of defamation and slander.

    Finally, if Canada categorizes Hezbollah as a terrorist organization in Canada it does not mean Lebanon should consider them terrorists. This is not how the law works. The law is territorial.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

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    Clearly he is saying Aoun is a criminal and a supporter of terrorism. He also referred to Hezbollah as a terrorist group, when Lebanon does not categorize the group as terrorist. So, there is an issue in here as well. Now, he should provide evidence to this allegation against Aoun otherwise legally it does fall under a crime of defamation and slander.

    Finally, if Canada categorizes Hezbollah as a terrorist organization in Canada it does not mean Lebanon should consider them terrorists. This is not how the law works. The law is territorial.
    So what measures can be taken against Ibrahim El Merhi in this case?
    He's a Saudi Citizen who lives in Saudi. Saudi Arabia considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization. He did no wrong according to his country's law.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    there should be a good parenting court to which people are taken for such deviations from values, where they would be publicly spanked and lectured, after which they are sent directly to their rooms without supper.


    while there should be no laws against objectively assessing someone with the appropriate linguistic terms to objectively describe a given reality, people who insult just to insult and provoke are ethically depraved, and the general population does not need to suffer their insolence and verbal abuse.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

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    So what measures can be taken against Ibrahim El Merhi in this case?
    He's a Saudi Citizen who lives in Saudi. Saudi Arabia considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization. He did no wrong according to his country's law.
    Lebanon has no jurisdiction over the Saudi citizen. He did not violate the laws of Saudi Arabia. He was in Saudi Arabia. Lebanon has no jurisdiction over the subject matter as well.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

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    I voted "no", but I have some reservations. I think the proper answer should be "Nobody should dare insult the president or anyone for that matter."

    I'm against the use of derogatory language, in general. Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to call your neighbor an asshole or a ****head. Similarly, false accusations are very harmful, and should be considered as defamation if not backed by evidence.

    Just because someone is a public figure doesn't mean he loses the right to be treated with respect.

    Who agrees?
     
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    JustLeb

    JustLeb

    Legendary Member
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    Guys insulting is insult... its now allowed to a normal human being...
    No one should dare insult the President or Batrack or Moufi etc...

    But we can criticize.. we can give an honest and noble opinion about anyone at anytime...why the insult? is it a must in a democratic nation?..its not...
    I voted "no".

    I'm against the use of derogatory language, in general. Freedom of speech doesn't give you the right to call your neighbor an asshole or a ****head. Similarly, false accusations are very harmful, and should be considered as defamation if not backed by evidence.

    Just because someone is a public figure doesn't mean he loses the right to be treated with respect.

    Who agrees?

    I don't think anyone accept insults and this is not an invitation to people to insult anyone let alone the president.
    However if someone insults the president, does he deserve to go to jail ?
    Of course the president has the right to sue for defamation, but the main idea (I repeat) is that the state does not take part in this.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

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    Lebanon has no jurisdiction over the Saudi citizen. He did not violate the laws of Saudi Arabia. He was in Saudi Arabia. Lebanon has no jurisdiction over the subject matter as well.
    Which is why they're trying to sue Marcel Ghanem, instead. They're sending a political message.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

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    Aoun is guilty of defamation, too. He accused Saudi Arabia of kidnapping Hariri.

    Although it seemed like a plausible scenario at the time, Aoun had no clear-cut evidence that Hariri was being held against his will.
     
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