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Should the WESTERN countries fear the spread of Islam ?

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This thread is the sequel of the Terrorist attack at two mosques in Christchurch New Zealand in which decent and reasonable discussion should be carried, away from the fanaticism from any side. Actually it is highly appreciated that fanatics from all sides do not take part in this discussion.

Back to the topic now, it is no secret that the raise of the far right in many places in Europe reveals a growing discontent of the population regarding the immigration laws, and the spreading of Islam.
As a person living in France, on the surface you see the french people very tolerant and open minded, but at the individual level many times when they start to trust you enough they can easily show how uncomfortable they are regarding these issues (it happened with me many times).
This discomfort does not come form any religious (Christian) background, quite the opposite they don't care what the other believes in, actually so many are atheist and they don't give a sh*t about religion. However, what they find unacceptable is that someone else whether Christian, Muslim or Hindu... tries to change his way of life.
Increasingly they are seeing this within the muslim community, whether this is true or not, I am not in a position to judge. But there are few issues that made headlines in the past, the "croissant during Holly Ramadan" and the "no porc in the schools canteen" as well as the veil in public schools.
This is alienating a growing number of french people and the result is Marine Lepen in the 2nd round of the 2017 elections.

As said in the video shared by @The_FPMer in the other thread, unfortunately the real discussion is blocked by the politicians and the frustrations is mounting in all fronts.
One french guy once told me "de toute façon on ne peut plus rien dire", this is very unhealthy situation, which will lead more and more to frustration and to people making wrong decisions like supporting the far right or resorting to violence.

Cool headed and wise leaders from all communities should start the discussions themselves and defuse the situation.
It is legitimate for people to have fears, and the duty of leaders and politicians is to ease those fears through discussion.

Unfortunately we have reached a situation in which everyone says he is afraid of the other. Non muslims say they fear muslim and muslims say they fear non-muslims.
If people do not start talking to each other, the situation will only get worse.

What's your opinion?
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
Of course, and being from Lebanon you should know that. Lebanon is the prime example of what is going to happen in Europe if their attitude towards Muslim immigration doesn't change.
 

Viral

Active Member
This thread is the sequel of the Terrorist attack at two mosques in Christchurch New Zealand in which decent and reasonable discussion should be carried, away from the fanaticism from any side. Actually it is highly appreciated that fanatics from all sides do not take part in this discussion.

Back to the topic now, it is no secret that the raise of the far right in many places in Europe reveals a growing discontent of the population regarding the immigration laws, and the spreading of Islam.
As a person living in France, on the surface you see the french people very tolerant and open minded, but at the individual level many times when they start to trust you enough they can easily show how uncomfortable they are regarding these issues (it happened with me many times).
This discomfort does not come form any religious (Christian) background, quite the opposite they don't care what the other believes in, actually so many are atheist and they don't give a sh*t about religion. However, what they find unacceptable is that someone else whether Christian, Muslim or Hindu... tries to change his way of life.
Increasingly they are seeing this within the muslim community, whether this is true or not, I am not in a position to judge. But there are few issues that made headlines in the past, the "croissant during Holly Ramadan" and the "no porc in the schools canteen" as well as the veil in public schools.
This is alienating a growing number of french people and the result is Marine Lepen in the 2nd round of the 2017 elections.

As said in the video shared by @The_FPMer in the other thread, unfortunately the real discussion is blocked by the politicians and the frustrations is mounting in all fronts.
One french guy once told me "de toute façon on ne peut plus rien dire", this is very unhealthy situation, which will lead more and more to frustration and to people making wrong decisions like supporting the far right or resorting to violence.

Cool headed and wise leaders from all communities should start the discussions themselves and defuse the situation.
It is legitimate for people to have fears, and the duty of leaders and politicians is to ease those fears through discussion.

Unfortunately we have reached a situation in which everyone says he is afraid of the other. Non muslims say they fear muslim and muslims say they fear non-muslims.
If people do not start talking to each other, the situation will only get worse.

What's your opinion?

You'll find most of the answers in this thread.
Is Europe paying the price for America’s Project in the Middle East?

You guys have a rich wealth of resources on this forum. You better take advantage of it!
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
Don't be naive. It's not a Muslim issue per se.

Right Wing Nuts are scared of anyone with a different shade or color. That includes Asians, Africans, Latinos, Middle Easterners...etc. They are just as opposed to immigration from any of those places.

They are angry and scared to realize that their privilege in the world is diminishing and sooner rather than later your group identity will not mean much in the world economy.
 

Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Don't be naive. It's not a Muslim issue per se.

Right Wing Nuts are scared of anyone with a different shade or color. That includes Asians, Africans, Latinos, Middle Easterners...etc. They are just as opposed to immigration from any of those places.

They are angry and scared to realize that their privilege in the world is diminishing and sooner rather than later your group identity will not mean much in the world economy.
I agree. Two factors are being conflated
1) terrorism. Real issue and currently the most publicized is Islamic but it is by no way unique, as we saw with Pittsburgh, ChirstHurch, etc
2) the rejection of the gharib, which started in Kesserwan and now spread across the world. Religion is one but many factors of defining a “ghrib”. French people are worried about many things (most have nothing to do with the Ghrib) but it is easy to find a bouc émissaire when you have Le Pen and Poutine misinformation campaigns.
French want everyone to look, speak, eat, and drink like them. I get crap from my mother in law for not drinking wine at lunch! So if you have a media campaign combining “lawlessness in the banlieue”, bearded men, ISIS, veiled women, how do think the average “Jean Claude” will react. But substitute religion with colorful African traditions, Asian behavior, etc you would get the same
 
I think that France is a prime example of what would happen when Muslims become a strong minority.
France is the most secular country on earth; it put secularism ahead of liberal or individual rights, their muslim population is getting bigger and bigger; they put harsh anti islam laws; but I don't feel that they are doing anything to stop immigration.

I guess they love their north african minority...
 

Le منشار

New Member
 

Libnene Qu7

Super Ultra Senior Member
Orange Room Supporter
As long as Western nations keep protecting their liberal and democratic ideals, there is nothing to fear. Right wing nuts want you to feel scared that an Islamic tsunami is headed their way (when there simply sin't). And left wing nuts want to give up their own culture for the sake of political correctness and identity politics.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Don't be naive. It's not a Muslim issue per se.

Right Wing Nuts are scared of anyone with a different shade or color. That includes Asians, Africans, Latinos, Middle Easterners...etc. They are just as opposed to immigration from any of those places.

They are angry and scared to realize that their privilege in the world is diminishing and sooner rather than later your group identity will not mean much in the world economy.

Very good points.

Africans, Arabs, Asians are catching up. Asians and Africans are very learned immigrants in the west. And social status increasing becomes a matter of how learned you are and what you can contribute to society than where you're from, your religion or skin color. That is creating problems from the average white guy who has a superior complex.

Islam isn't the problem per se. For as long as Muslims are willing to be subservient and play to the unmerited interests of westerners, they won't have a problem. The alliance the west has with the barbaric al saud is an example. The west don't mind even supporting wahhabi terror groups to tackle govts that challenge their dictates in the region. The religion mess, vis a vis Wahhabi terror, is created to tarnish the image of Islam and increasingly demoralize Muslims and break the hold of the faithful Muslim, who opposes subservience and oppression. The west is using the Wahhabi terror and ideology in a double game. They align and ally with that ideology in many cases and then when the monsters get out of control, they blame Islam as a whole. It's all a game. Wahhabi terror has killer hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Shi'a. If Saudi wasnt their puppet, they could have used that as excuse to invade Saudi Arabia. But they turned a blind eye when Wahhabi terror kills Muslims. Then they make an issue out of it when it targets western cities to blackmail Muslims. They use this same terror to make their interests prevail and to spread chaos in the middle east. They even support despots for their interests.

We as Muslims and Arabs can defeat their imperialism and evil machinations by investing in education and science and technology. Get your children educated in the best western schools. Whatever makes then superior you will get hold of it through education. If truly they are against retrogression and they're so advanced and superior, they won't complain after all. At least humanity will improve. And make sure you educate your children in your eastern traditions and beliefs.
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
This thread is the sequel of the Terrorist attack at two mosques in Christchurch New Zealand in which decent and reasonable discussion should be carried, away from the fanaticism from any side. Actually it is highly appreciated that fanatics from all sides do not take part in this discussion.

Back to the topic now, it is no secret that the raise of the far right in many places in Europe reveals a growing discontent of the population regarding the immigration laws, and the spreading of Islam.
As a person living in France, on the surface you see the french people very tolerant and open minded, but at the individual level many times when they start to trust you enough they can easily show how uncomfortable they are regarding these issues (it happened with me many times).
This discomfort does not come form any religious (Christian) background, quite the opposite they don't care what the other believes in, actually so many are atheist and they don't give a sh*t about religion. However, what they find unacceptable is that someone else whether Christian, Muslim or Hindu... tries to change his way of life.
Increasingly they are seeing this within the muslim community, whether this is true or not, I am not in a position to judge. But there are few issues that made headlines in the past, the "croissant during Holly Ramadan" and the "no porc in the schools canteen" as well as the veil in public schools.
This is alienating a growing number of french people and the result is Marine Lepen in the 2nd round of the 2017 elections.

As said in the video shared by @The_FPMer in the other thread, unfortunately the real discussion is blocked by the politicians and the frustrations is mounting in all fronts.
One french guy once told me "de toute façon on ne peut plus rien dire", this is very unhealthy situation, which will lead more and more to frustration and to people making wrong decisions like supporting the far right or resorting to violence.

Cool headed and wise leaders from all communities should start the discussions themselves and defuse the situation.
It is legitimate for people to have fears, and the duty of leaders and politicians is to ease those fears through discussion.

Unfortunately we have reached a situation in which everyone says he is afraid of the other. Non muslims say they fear muslim and muslims say they fear non-muslims.
If people do not start talking to each other, the situation will only get worse.

What's your opinion?

Here a few questions that we can discuss within the context of this thread:

1. Should the west control and limit muslim immigration due to spreading fanaticism, radicalization and terrorism in many countries and regions where muslim immigrants come from, and the concern that the same culture could be imported to their shores?
2. Should the west be concerned about aspect of radical islamic culture morphing the fabric of their societies, and do they have a right to manage that within their own countries? Is that racism, or bigoted or intolerant, or can it be acceptable as self-determination.
3. Can citizens in western countries have an open and free discussion about such issues without self-righteous leftist fascists trying to claim some fantasy moral high ground to shut any reasonable conversation down?
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
@JustLeb Should western countries fear the spread of Islam?
I do not think this is the right question to ask in my opinion. I posted 3 questions above that are likely better to tackle this topic through.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member

And I don't blame him at all.

And I hope he wins. And I hope he carries out his plan. It will only expose the ball-less leaders we have in the Arab, and Muslim worlds and in Africa. Let him expel immigrants from Africa and the Middle East.

Then let Middle Eastern and African states expel all Italians. Its very simple. These animals won't be barking if the leaders in the Muslim and Arab worlds and in Africa are up to the challenge to carry out a tit for tat expulsion.
 

Le منشار

New Member
And I don't blame him at all.

And I hope he wins. And I hope he carries out his plan. It will only expose the ball-less leaders we have in the Arab, and Muslim worlds and in Africa. Let him expel immigrants from Africa and the Middle East.

Then let Middle Eastern and African states expel all Italians. Its very simple. These animals won't be barking if the leaders in the Muslim and Arab worlds and in Africa are up to the challenge to carry out a tit for tat expulsion.
he is asking to KILL Muslims not EXPEL THEM !!
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
Don't be naive. It's not a Muslim issue per se.

Right Wing Nuts are scared of anyone with a different shade or color. That includes Asians, Africans, Latinos, Middle Easterners...etc. They are just as opposed to immigration from any of those places.

They are angry and scared to realize that their privilege in the world is diminishing and sooner rather than later your group identity will not mean much in the world economy.


Europeans are no more racist than Arabs or Middle Easterners who literally treat South Asians and Africans as slaves. You don't see Westerners complaining about Buddhist or Hindu immigration, except for some lunatic white nationalists.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Here a few questions that we can discuss within the context of this thread:

1. Should the west control and limit muslim immigration due to spreading fanaticism, radicalization and terrorism in many countries and regions where muslim immigrants come from, and the concern that the same culture could be imported to their shores?
2. Should the west be concerned about aspect of radical islamic culture morphing the fabric of their societies, and do they have a right to manage that within their own countries? Is that racism, or bigoted or intolerant, or can it be acceptable as self-determination.
3. Can citizens in western countries have an open and free discussion about such issues without self-righteous leftist fascists trying to claim some fantasy moral high ground to shut any reasonable conversation down?

Well let's put it simple. European expect that the immigrants get integrated, but there is little to effort to help them do that.
On the other side immigrants do not put enough efforts to integrate.
While the most talked about are the muslims but the reality covers all type of immigrants.
for example when Holland brought 50 iraqi christian families to help them escape DAESH there were many outcry from the far right, especially LePen.
 
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