Should Ziad Doueiri be arrested for visiting Israel?

Should Ziad Doueiri be arrested for visiting Israel?

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Muki

Muki

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The cause of the war is Zionists wanting to throw the Palestinians to the sea and take the land as theirs and they were partially successful... Spare us the UN partition hogwash, your audience here is far too informed for that.
The problem with your assertion, friend, is that if Zionists wanted to "throw the Palestinians to the sea", why did they agree to legalize (by giving citizenship to) those "Palestinians" Syrian Arabs that remained within the boundaries of the new state after Jews repelled the Arab invasion, emerged victorious, and declared their new state? Contrast to Abbas, who several years ago said he wants the new "Palestinian" state in the West Bank to be Judenrein.

Do not forget that in that war of aggression, Zionists were in the defensive and their plan was well-known -- to establish their own state. That means, if the Arabs failed in their war of aggression, as a consequence of that war a new Jewish state will emerge. They must have known all of this, of course, and decided that their best course of action to take was to launch a war. They failed and a new Jewish state emerged. The people who fled that war and who were outside the boundaries of the new state at the conclusion of the war became what you call "Palestinian refugees".

You and your "too informed" audience want to absolve the aggressors from responsibility for the consequences their actions have caused.

That's history, folks. You may not like it but you can't change it. What you can change is the present, and by that the future.

Israel will never accept any "Palestinian" refugee to return to Israel. If you're waiting for that to happen in order to sign peace with Israel, then you are not serious about pursuing peace. Hizbullah uses this excuse because they want to keep the raison d'être for their weapons, and because hating Jews sells unsurprisingly well with Islamist audience. What's your excuse?

The ceasefire will not last forever and soon it will be your cities being turned into rubble, which is a huge service to Hizbullah propaganda machine but nevertheless important for the security of Israel. Only a peace treaty will prevent that from happening -- not Hizbullah or a 1,000 terrorist organizations like it, not the Lebanese army, and certainly not a ceasefire.

You have historical precedent -- how many times did Israel attack Jordan or Egypt after the peace treaties? In face of this precedent, why are you willingly fooled by Hizbullah into believing Israel will commit acts of aggression against Lebanon when Lebanon signs a peace treaty with Israel and when Hizbullah hands all of its weapons to the Lebanese army?

Pardon the length of this post.
 
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  • CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    The problem with your assertion, friend, is that if Zionists wanted to "throw the Palestinians to the sea", why did they agree to legalize (by giving citizenship to) those "Palestinians" Syrian Arabs that remained within the boundaries of the new state after Jews repelled the Arab invasion, emerged victorious, and declared their new state? Contrast to Abbas, who several years ago said he wants the new "Palestinian" state in the West Bank to be Judenrein.

    Do not forget that in that war of aggression, Zionists were in the defensive and their plan was well-known -- to establish their own state. That means, if the Arabs failed in their war of aggression, as a consequence of that war a new Jewish state will emerge. They must have known all of this, of course, and decided that their best course of action to take was to launch a war. They failed and a new Jewish state emerged. The people who fled that war and who were outside the boundaries of the new state at the conclusion of the war became what you call "Palestinian refugees".

    You and your "too informed" audience want to absolve the aggressors from responsibility for the consequences their actions have caused.

    That's history, folks. You may not like it but you can't change it. What you can change is the present, and by that the future.

    Israel will never accept any Palestinian refugee to return to Israel. If you're waiting for that to happen in order to sign peace with Israel, then you are not serious about pursuing peace. Hizbullah uses this excuse because they want to keep the raison d'être for their weapons, and because hating Jews sells unsurprisingly well with Islamist audience. What's your excuse?

    The ceasefire will not last forever and soon it will be your cities being turned into rubble, which is a huge service to Hizbullah propaganda machine but nevertheless important for the security of Israel. Only a peace treaty will prevent that from happening -- not Hizbullah or a 1,000 terrorist organizations like it, not the Lebanese army, and certainly not a ceasefire.

    You have historical precedent -- how many times did Israel attack Jordan or Egypt after the peace treaties? In face of this precedent, why are you willingly fooled by Hizbullah into believing Israel will commit acts of aggression against Lebanon when Lebanon signs a peace treaty with Israel and when Hizbullah hands all of its weapons to the Lebanese army?

    Pardon the length of this post.
    Zionists attempted a land grab and succeeded. They also wanted the Palestinians off their grabbed land and partially succeeded. Save your propaganda for someone who can't find the Middle East on a map.

    As for peace, any settlement that does not justly mend all the wrongs that happened as a consequence on both sides is a temporary one at best. To use your own words: Israel Lebanon will never accept any Palestinian refugee to return to Israel stay in Lebanon. If you're waiting for that to happen in order to sign peace with Israel Lebanon, then you are not serious about pursuing peace.
     
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    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I

    I never said Lebanon should recognize Israel, I said the boycott law should be revisited because the world has significantly changed since this law was drafted :) Big difference!
    How do you suggest that Lebanon abolish boycott laws with Israel without recognition of Israel as a state and as a trade partner?
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Zionists attempted a land grab and succeeded. They also wanted the Palestinians off their grabbed land and partially succeeded. Save your propaganda for someone who can't find the Middle East on a map.

    As for peace, any settlement that does not justly mend all the wrongs that happened as a consequence on both sides is a temporary one at best. To use your own words: Israel Lebanon will never accept any "Palestinian" refugee to return to Israel stay in Lebanon. If you're waiting for that to happen in order to sign peace with Israel Lebanon, then you are not serious about pursuing peace.
    Israel mended its side of wrong by naturalizing all Jewish refugees from 22(?) Arab countries. It's time the Arabs mended theirs.

    It is perhaps clever from you to use my own words, but unfortunately for you the Palestinians are already in Lebanon, along with a foreign-funded terrorist organization that is more powerful than the Lebanese government and Lebanese army. I'd say peace with Israel is a more pressing matter for you, before the face of Lebanon is changed forever. You'd really rather sacrifice your own country, just to spite Israel?

    Because, to Israel, Lebanon is just another Islamist shithole on its borders, with special dynamics eroding year after year. Peace will come one way or the other, eventually.
     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    Israel mended its side of wrong by naturalizing all Jewish refugees from 22(?) Arab countries. It's time the Arabs mended theirs.

    It is perhaps clever from you to use my own words, but unfortunately for you the Palestinians are already in Lebanon, along with a foreign-funded terrorist organization that is more powerful than the Lebanese government and Lebanese army. I'd say peace with Israel is a more pressing matter for you, before the face of Lebanon is changed forever. You'd really rather sacrifice your own country, just to spite Israel?

    Because, to Israel, Lebanon is just another Islamist shithole on its borders, with special dynamics eroding year after year. Peace will come one way or the other, eventually.
    It is quite evident that peace is more of a PR stunt for you than an actual goal. Luckily, that is not a position shared by a lot of Israelis.
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Walla Awyen Nabadon Asdiqa2 Isra2il...Leik Lesh Ma Bta3mloulkon Shi Rabita Tejma3kon Ta Netda77ak Shwayy...Walla Bass 3antariyet W Satlanet Men Wara El Shesheh...o_O
     
    O

    owsum

    Member
    I agree with you. For years I have always taken the Palestinian side, thinking Israel is the aggressor. But just look who the Palis voted for: "Hamas". It's understandable that Israel doesn't want to coexist with such dangerous and sick-minded people.

    Israel and Lebanon were created in the same way. Syria and Transjordania were partitioned into smaller states by the British mandate.
    If we are to accept an independent Lebanon, we have to accept an independent Israel.

    Arabs have waged four wars against Israel and lost them all. It's time Arabs accept the truth. Israel is not going anywhere. So we might as well make the best of the status quo, instead of being stuck forever in this cycle or violence.
     
    O

    owsum

    Member
    Stop with this victim mentality for god's sake. WE are responsible for our own problems and nobody else. YOU, like every Arab piece of cake like to blame others for your own problems. If you are interested in what initially lead these palestinians to come and reside here in the first place do yoursleves a favor and read some history, follow the timelines, and take a look at multiple sources, and if you have anything other than wooden brains you'd come to a much different conclusion.
     
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    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    @owsum Thanks for the repost, little grumpy fella.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Stop with this victim mentality for god's sake. WE are responsible for our own problems and nobody else. YOU, like every Arab piece of cake like to blame others for your own problems. If you are interested in what initially lead these palestinians to come and reside here in the first place do yoursleves a favor and read some history, take a look at multiple sources, and if you have anything other than wooden brains you'd come to a much different conclusion.
    I think Palestinians can stay in Lebanon, since Israel takes all Jews in Lebanon as citizens. These can stay with you guys.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    It is quite evident that peace is more of a PR stunt for you than an actual goal. Luckily, that is not a position shared by a lot of Israelis.
    Curious -- what line of thinking, after reading my posts, led you to that conclusion?
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I agree with you. For years I have always taken the Palestinian side, thinking Israel is the aggressor. But just look who the Palis voted for: "Hamas". It's understandable that Israel doesn't want to coexist with such dangerous and sick-minded people.

    Israel and Lebanon were created in the same way. Syria and Transjordania were partitioned into smaller states by the British mandate.
    If we are to accept an independent Lebanon, we have to accept an independent Israel.

    Arabs have waged four wars against Israel and lost them all. It's time Arabs accept the truth. Israel is not going anywhere. So we might as well make the best of the status quo, instead of being stuck forever in this cycle or violence.
    If you pursue peace with Israel, as a Lebanese, you will be labeled a traitor... even if you hate Israel. That is because Hizbullah is building a society of war (مجتمع حرب) to sustain their armed existence until they take over the state, and if you call for peace with Israel then you are a traitor to that project, even if peace greatly benefits the Lebanese state.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Walla Awyen Nabadon Asdiqa2 Isra2il...Leik Lesh Ma Bta3mloulkon Shi Rabita Tejma3kon Ta Netda77ak Shwayy...Walla Bass 3antariyet W Satlanet Men Wara El Shesheh...o_O
    Soon, perhaps ;).
     
    kmarthe

    kmarthe

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The parents were saying their children were still alive even as the DNA from the recovered bodies was being examined. They wanted their kids back dead or alive. They needed closure. Hala2 had they said all along that they consider their children martyrs and don't want to negotiate, then i would have agreed with you. You seem to forget that the parents used to block roads when their was talk of an imminent operation to liberate them. They even blocked roads at the request of ISIS and Nusra. In my opinion, they cornered everyone to get this deal done.
    I didn't forget anything of what the parents did and that is heart breaking! I simply asked if the parents are happy with letting ISIS terrorists escape on ACed bus (check my previous post). Look, Shaker Absi we let him escape despite the blood of 170+ soldiers, and this time we let hundreds of orcs get away and we are presenting the deal as a victory. Those fellows were cornered, besieged and under fire so definitely they would have confessed about the bodies location. Had they been on the winning side, then yes I would support striking a deal with them. I may not convince you and that is fine :) But HA has to be careful because they are committing many errors and on the long run it won't be granted that the support they have will remain as is, especially if they repeat the new mou3adala including the Syrian army who butchered 600 people from my hometown alone in the 80s. The Syrian army was an occupation army for a big fraction of the Lebanese people and I hope they remember that...

    So what, in your opinion, should have the army done in order to know the fate of the soldiers? Ktir hayyin el 7akeh.

    I'm one of Hizbullah's fiercest opponents, but I give them credit for this specific operation.

    I'm sure that if they had chosen not to negotiate with Isis, they would have been blamed for being reckless and putting the soldiers' life at stake.
    Ya 3eyneh we are talking about bones!! Again, a besieged looser who has to beg for his life would tell you where the remains are without you offer him the luxury of escaping... They should have taken the dawaesh hostages (without supplies nor food) until the remains location is revealed, and then let go their families while catching the culprits.

    Tonzir from behind the PC in Canada is easy! :)

    The job of the army is to liberate the land and not to die so that kam m2al3at get killed. This was achieved.

    Plus the army was encircling them from one side only, they were able to easily run away to Syria in the absence of coordination with HA and the Syrian army!
    Don't drift to the coordination with HA because the army has to coordinate with HA/Syrian army, this is not the point. You said that GMA and the army commander took this decision (btw why didn't the army negotiate directly and resorted to HA if it is really their decision?) and I told you how can GMA ask for the accountability of the politicians who were responsible while letting the real killers escape? There is no tonzir here because in any crime investigation people look for the killer before looking for the planner and accomplice. The purpose is not to kill kam m2al3at as you are saying, the purpose is to teach terrorists a lesson so they won't mess with the army anymore, bikaffe after Nahr el Bared, Abra and now that funny ending with the deal with ISIS.

    How do you suggest that Lebanon abolish boycott laws with Israel without recognition of Israel as a state and as a trade partner?
    Ya 3eyneh where did I say abolish, I said revisit and revise the law :) that means update the law to take into account the ease of travels and the globalization movement where no boundaries are existing anymore between countries.
     
    J

    joseph_lubnan

    Legendary Member
    Walla Awyen Nabadon Asdiqa2 Isra2il...Leik Lesh Ma Bta3mloulkon Shi Rabita Tejma3kon Ta Netda77ak Shwayy...Walla Bass 3antariyet W Satlanet Men Wara El Shesheh...o_O
    Why not negotiate a resolution of Lebanon's conflict with Israel, much like HA negotiated with IS IS and Nusra? Declare unilaterally that Sheba and kfarshooba are Lebanese and negotiate their return with Israel and get to a peace treaty that helps Lebanon move beyond this conflict. Peace can be contingent on returning the land above to Lebanon and the international community absorbing 80 percent of the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and Lebanon absorbing 20%, for example.

    From a pure Lebanese perspective I don't care that Lebanon suffers for the return of Palestinians to Palestine. So long that we solve the refugee problem, they can continue discussing the Palestinian issue for 100s of years after that if they wish. Lebanon is a small country, it needs to focus on its own well being.

    Btw it's ok for forumers to discuss issues related to Israel without you coming here with your accusations and veiled traitor labeling. Most people discussing here are more patriotic than you.
     
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    L

    lebanese1

    Legendary Member
    Don't drift to the coordination with HA because the army has to coordinate with HA/Syrian army, this is not the point. You said that GMA and the army commander took this decision (btw why didn't the army negotiate directly and resorted to HA if it is really their decision?) and I told you how can GMA ask for the accountability of the politicians who were responsible while letting the real killers escape? There is no tonzir here because in any crime investigation people look for the killer before looking for the planner and accomplice. The purpose is not to kill kam m2al3at as you are saying, the purpose is to teach terrorists a lesson so they won't mess with the army anymore, bikaffe after Nahr el Bared, Abra and now that funny ending with the deal with ISIS.
    .
    negotiations happened through HA because the approval of Syrian government was needed to deport the terrorists and the Lebanese army was not allowed to contact the Syrians for that matter.

    Same reason why continuing the battle without coordination with the other side was futile and would have costed the army losses for nothing while the majority of terrorists evade to Syria.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    I didn't forget anything of what the parents did and that is heart breaking! I simply asked if the parents are happy with letting ISIS terrorists escape on ACed bus (check my previous post). Look, Shaker Absi we let him escape despite the blood of 170+ soldiers, and this time we let hundreds of orcs get away and we are presenting the deal as a victory. Those fellows were cornered, besieged and under fire so definitely they would have confessed about the bodies location. Had they been on the winning side, then yes I would support striking a deal with them. I may not convince you and that is fine :) But HA has to be careful because they are committing many errors and on the long run it won't be granted that the support they have will remain as is, especially if they repeat the new mou3adala including the Syrian army who butchered 600 people from my hometown alone in the 80s. The Syrian army was an occupation army for a big fraction of the Lebanese people and I hope they remember that...



    Ya 3eyneh we are talking about bones!! Again, a besieged looser who has to beg for his life would tell you where the remains are without you offer him the luxury of escaping... They should have taken the dawaesh hostages (without supplies nor food) until the remains location is revealed, and then let go their families while catching the culprits.



    Don't drift to the coordination with HA because the army has to coordinate with HA/Syrian army, this is not the point. You said that GMA and the army commander took this decision (btw why didn't the army negotiate directly and resorted to HA if it is really their decision?) and I told you how can GMA ask for the accountability of the politicians who were responsible while letting the real killers escape? There is no tonzir here because in any crime investigation people look for the killer before looking for the planner and accomplice. The purpose is not to kill kam m2al3at as you are saying, the purpose is to teach terrorists a lesson so they won't mess with the army anymore, bikaffe after Nahr el Bared, Abra and now that funny ending with the deal with ISIS.



    Ya 3eyneh where did I say abolish, I said revisit and revise the law :) that means update the law to take into account the ease of travels and the globalization movement where no boundaries are existing anymore between countries.

    I'm not sure what this has to do with Doueiry.....
    But I never thought I would see the day where FPMers would criticise the parents of soldiers and would agree to a deal where the killers roam free.

    I remember the time when they used to go to the streets, asking to know what happened with the soldiers and civilians who disappeared during the civil war while asking for Assad to be put on trial for this crime.....even though Lebanon was on the looser side.

    Now that Lebanon was on the winning side, they still want the country to bend over.

    What a disgrace....
     
    Abou Sandal

    Abou Sandal

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Btw it's ok for forumers to discuss issues related to Israel without you coming here with your accusations and veiled traitor labeling. Most people discussing here are more patriotic than you.
    You would make a good secretary general of the رابطة أصدقاء إسرائيل . I would promote you should you decide to apply for the title :)
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Ya 3eyneh where did I say abolish, I said revisit and revise the law :) that means update the law to take into account the ease of travels and the globalization movement where no boundaries are existing anymore between countries.
    Abd you want to do all this without recognizing Israel and having peace
     
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