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Suicide

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Suicide (Latin sui caedere, to kill oneself) is the willful act of taking one's own life. A suicide can also refer to the individual who has killed themself. Suicide may be caused by psychological factors such as the difficulty of coping with depression or other mental disorders. It may also stem from social and cultural pressures. Nearly a million people worldwide commit suicide annually. While completed suicides are higher in men, women have higher rates for suicide attempts. Elderly males have the highest suicide rate, although rates for young adults have been increasing in recent years.

Views toward suicide have varied in history and society. Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism generally condemn suicide as a dishonorable act and some countries have made it a crime to attempt to kill oneself. In some cultures committing suicide may be accepted under some circumstances, such as Japanese committing seppuku for honor, Islamic suicide attacks, or the self-immolation of Buddhist monks as a form of protest.

[FIELDSET="Questions"]What's your opinion about this act?

Did you want to do it?

Do you "excuse" or "understand" who did it or you condemn him/her?

If you know someone who suicided, could you tell us what were his/her reasons?

How do you see the suicide of a poet or a painter?[/FIELDSET]

[FIELDSET="الشعراء المنتحرون"]
العابرون في المنام

جمانة حداد

مئةٌ وخمسون شاعراً. مئةٌ وخمسون شاعراً انتحروا في القرن العشرين. مئةٌ وخمسون صرخوا (أو همسوا): ’كفى!‘، وسبقونا الى الضفّة الأخرى. على رؤوس أصابعهم عبروا، كي لا يوقظوا خوفهم فينتبه ويحول. على رؤوس أصابعم، لأنّ الحزن خفيفٌ هو الحزن الخفيف.

نعم. مئةٌ وخمسون، في القرن العشرين، انتحروا. مئةٌ وخمسون شاعراً وشاعرةً، من ثمانية وأربعين بلداً، من جهات الأرض الأربع، احتقروا، بعشرين لغة مختلفة، وباثنتي عشرة طريقة مختلفة، هذه الحياة "الانتحارية". مئةٌ وخمسون بطلاً وبطلةً ازدروا العروش كلها، الباطلة منها وغير الباطلة، وارتموا في الهاوية. (جبنٌ؟ شجاعةٌ؟ لا يهمّ. ارتموا).


ترى هل كان يهوذا أول منتحرٍ في تاريخ العالم الحديث؟ لستُ أدري. لكنه بالتأكيد أوّل منتحرٍ قرأتُ عنه في كتب الدين على مقاعد المدرسة، وأحببتُه. أحببتُ رومنطيقيته الخاسرة، وفروسيته المؤجلة، لكن المتجلية. أحببته معلَّقاً بأناقةٍ ونبلٍ على تلك الشجرة، وأحببتُ، على العشب تحته، نقودَ خيانته تلمع كرسالة وداع. أحببتُه رغم أن المعلّمات كنّ يقلن لنا بنبرةٍ تشبه الحقد كثيراً (لكنها ليست الحقد تماماً): "هذا رجلٌ غادرٌ، وقد نال ما يستحقّ". أجل أحببتُه. (جبانٌ؟ شجاعٌ؟ لا يهمّ. أحببتُه). ولو أُعطي لي، بسحر ساحرٍ، أن أغيّر قدره والتاريخ، لما غيّرتُ شيئاً. لقلتُ له: خنْ وانتحر من جديد يا يهوذا. خنْ وانتحر من جديد، والى ما لا نهاية.

عندما بدأ الشعراء المنتحرون ينادونني ويلفتون انتباهي تدريجاً، كان واضحاً بالنسبة إليَّ، ومنذ اللحظة الأولى، أنهم النماذج "العصرية" لهذا الـ"يهوذا": كيف لا، وكلّ واحد منهم "خائنٌ" على طريقته؟ كيف لا، وكل واحد منهم باع روحه لقاء "ثلاثين من فضّةٍ" ما؟ منهم من خان الحبّ ومنهم من خان الشعر. منهم من خان الجسد، ومنهم المنطق. لائحة خياناتهم أطول من أن ترد هنا، لكنهم جميعاً، جميعاً بلا استثناء، خانوا الحياة في المرتبة الأولى: "مَنْ لا يعرف ما هي الحياة، أنّى له أن يعرف الموت؟"، يسأل كونفوشيوس. أتراهم خانوا الحياة، وخانوا أنفسهم، كي "يعرفوا"؟

هل كان يهوذا حقاً أول منتحرٍ في تاريخ العالم الحديث، وهل كانت سافو أول شاعرةٍ منتحرة، مثلما تفيد بعض المراجع التي أتيح لي الاطلاع عليها على مرّ الوقت؟ لا أعلم. لكني، من إيما بوفاري ابنة فلوبير الى آنا كارينينا شيطانة تولستوي، ومن وورثر غوته الى اوفيليا شكسبير، ومن أبطال الأدب الى أبطال التاريخ (كليوباترا، هنيبعل...)، ومن أبطال التاريخ الى أبطال الخشبة والشاشة (كورت كوبين، ماريلين، داليدا، رومي شنايدر، سعاد حسني...)، وقعتُ في حبّ المنتحرين، "مرضى" الحياة، المنتقمين منها ومن أنفسهم، مراراً وتكراراً، وسرق هؤلاء قلبي عاماً وراء عام، صفحةً وراء صفحة، حادثةً وراء حادثة، الى غير رجعة.


مئةٌ وخمسون شاعراً في القرن العشرين انتحروا، إذاً، ووجدتُهم.

متى بدأ ذلك؟ وكيف؟ ولماذا؟ أنا نفسي لا أعرف. بزغوا جميعاً ذات غفوةٍ: ألفونسينا، فلاديمير، أميليا، بول، سيلفيا، تشيزاري، دانييل، خليل، نيلغون، جان بيار، أليخاندرا، جون، صفيّة، أتيلا، ريتيكا، تيسير، بيدرو، قاسم، كارين...الخ: بزغوا وجاؤوني في المنام. جاؤوني وخطفوني وصعقوني. صعقوني ودوّخوني وافترسوني. إلى المقلب الآخر سحبتني أطيافهم وقالت: "حان ليلنا فاذهبي وتجهّزي. انهضي من رقادكِ وأنهضينا. قد تعبنا من حياتنا السريّة، ومللنا الهيمان في وادي الظلال. دحرجي الحجر وابعثينا".

متى بدأ ذلك؟ وكيف؟ ولماذا؟ لا أعرف، أقول. جلّ ما أعرفه هو أننا نحن الشعراء محاطون بأشباحٍ يخاطبوننا سرّاً. أشباحٌ من كل نوع ولون وطبيعة. أحياناً يتمسّك هولاء بأكمامنا، يشدّونها كأطفالٍ صغار أضاعوا أمهّاتهم في الزحمة، ويطلبون منّا إعادتهم الى البيت. أشباحي أنا، "أطفالي" أنا، طوال السنوات الأربع الماضية، كانوا هؤلاء المنتحرين، "شهداء" الشعر، ربما، وشهداء أنفسهم خصوصاً.

جاؤوني، إذاً، وخطفوني وصعقوني. عذّبوني ودوّخوني وافترسوني. "انهضي"، هتفوا معاً بصوتٍ مكهرِب، فنهضتُ وطاردتُهم، واحداً واحداً، وواحدةً واحدة. طاردتُ قصائدهم طفولتهم أرضهم ابتساماتهم أوجاعهم استيهاماتهم هواجسهم عذاباتهم جهنماتهم جروحهم المفتوحة وغرفهم المغلقة. طاردتُهم وعشتُهم. عشتُهم ومتُّهم. مئة وخمسين مرّةً عشتُ، ومئة وخمسين مرّةً متُّ. ومراراً وكم شعرتُ بأني أنبش قبورهم بيديَّ. لا تصدّقون؟ تعالوا وانظروا: لمّا يزل بعض ذاك التراب المطيَّب عالقاً تحت أظافري...

عشتُ ومتُّ فعشتُ، لكني لن أروي حياتي وموتي ولا حياتي ها هنا. مَنْ يريد أن يعرفها، هذه الرواية، عليه أن يقرأ، قريباً، مجموعتي الشعرية الخامسة، "مرايا العابرات في المنام"، التي أحدس فيها شعرياً تجربتي مع اثنتي عشرة شاعرةً انتحرن باثنتي عشرة طريقة (هنّ للمناسبة الشاعرات اللواتي أفتتح بهنّ أبواب المدخل الى الأنطولوجيا).

في صوفيا عشتُ وفي واشنطن، في فيينا وفي بوينوس ايريس، في موسكو وأثينا ومكسيكو وهافانا، في بيروت وعمّان والقاهرة والجزائر، في ريو دي جينيرو عشتُ وفي ليما، في بروكسيل وفي برلين، في بيجينغ عشتُ وفي بودابست...

ومتُّ: بالرصاص متُّ بالحبل متُّ بالسكين متُّ بالحبوب متُّ بالمياه غرقاً متُّ تحت العجلات دهساً متُّ بالارتماء في الفراغ متُّ بالسمّ متُّ وبالكهرباء وبالغاز وبالمخدرات متُّ وباللهيب المفترس متُّ.

نابشةُ القبور أنا، قبور الشعراء المنتحرين.

مئةً وخمسين نعشاً فتحتُ، نعم،

والى مئةٍ وخمسين جهنّم نزلتُ.

مئةً وخمسين جثّةً أنعشتُ بماء الزهر،

ومئةً وخمسين شيطاناً روّضتُ.

مئةً وخمسين دمعةً رشفتُ

وبمئةٍ وخمسين ناراً احترقتُ.

مئةً وخمسين حكايةً حكيتُ،

ومئةً وخمسين مرّةً سألتُ، بحسرةٍ سألتُ، وقهراً، وعارفةً سألتُ:

لماذا ينتحر من ينتحر؟



•مقتطف من مقدّمةٍ طويلة لأنطولوجيا الشعراء المنتحرين في القرن العشرين ("سيجيء الموت وستكون له عيناك")، صادرة عن "دار النهار" و"الدار العربية للعلوم".

الاثنين 23 نيسان 2007
النهار​
[/FIELDSET]
 

Nayla

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
[[FIELDSET="Questions"]What's your opinion about this act?

Did you want to do it?

Do you "excuse" or "understand" who did it or you condemn him/her?

If you know someone who suicided, could you tell us what were his/her reasons?

How do you see the suicide of a poet or a painter?[/FIELDSET]
I'll never ever suicide
Neither condamn nor excuse, it's none of my business
The suicide of a poet or a painter doesn't differ of any other suicide: the despair could overcome anybody even a president or an artist
 

Faithful

Legendary Member
What's your opinion about this act?

For me Life is a gift that we must keep on it and protect it as much as we can and noone has the right to end it. I think that Suicide is a result of a depression. When a person's life become valueless, when he feels unloved, when he feels lonely, when he feel useless, when he feels uncapable to pass the bad times, when he always feel pain, when he can not accept living in a specific situation, when he lose faith and hope, and he cant find any person to help him, he will think of ending his life.

Did you want to do it?

No never because I always believe that my life is just a road to another better life. I know that i will face a lot problems and a lot of bad times that will make me hate my life sometimes but i will also face a lot of good things and a lot of joyful times so i will keep going to reach the end.

Do you "excuse" or "understand" who did it or you condemn him/her??

I don't have the right to judge them akid. Of course i understand them, because they don't know what they are doing. Those people are suffering, they need help and a lot of love to relive their joy in life and to rebuild their selfesteem and to have faith and hope again.

If you know someone who suicided, could you tell us what were his/her reasons???

I know 2 persons who suicided. One girl and one man.

The girl is dead now. She suicided with poison. She was in her 20s i think. No one knows why she suicided, but in the last months she was suffering of some imperfections in her face and she hated her situation, so i don't know if this was the reason.

The man was in his 30s, he didn't succeed, even if he shoot himsef with a gun in his head thru his neck the first time and he repeated the same act twice. Oh my God.
He spent months in the hospital, He has a lot of problems in his mouth, he has no teeth anymore w sa2if 7al2o killo ra7. After a lot of operations in his whole face, now he is doing fine, but he's still uncapable to see in one eye and he still has scars in his face. But also i don't know the reason of his suicide, but i think something related to his health.


How do you see the suicide of a poet or a painter?
Same as any other person
 

shadow1

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What's your opinion about this act?
I dont condone it but suicide is a very destructive act first on the one who undertakes it and second on those left behind to cope with a million questions and "If only"s "What If"s. To a family where one of its members ahs done it it's like radiation whose effects linger for so many years and cause a spiritual death to many who left behind.

Did you want to do it?
During and after the war in Lebanon i thought about it so much. Not because my own situation was any more terrible than those who were around me but perhaps because my ability to face the difficulties was weaker than others. It was like an option that was always there but never to be taken. Younger peaople can romanticise the idea to a level where they become fascinated by the efffects they create in their minds of it much like watching a moving story on television without fully appreciating the gravity of its reality.

Do you "excuse" or "understand" who did it or you condemn him/her?
I understand them and I condemn them for not giving themselves a chance and for shutting themselves out to the idea that everything changes. It takes a lot of courage to commit suicide and it made me wonder if someone has so much strength to do it why cant they re-channel the strength towards thinking that there is so much in this world to love and cherish.

If you know someone who suicided, could you tell us what were his/her reasons?
Picture it, I was 21 eyars old, walking at night with a friend during those breaks in the civil war. This friend suddenly decided to call his brother in America and since his brother lived with Americans he ask me to speak with the people because of the language. When i asked for the brother they told me he had killed himself a couple of days earlier and connections with lebanon were horrible at the time. It turned out the brother killed himself because the American government had decided to deport him back to lebanon because he was there illegally and he was frightened to go back to a country in a state of war. Ironic, yes but such was the truth.

How do you see the suicide of a poet or a painter?
Like anyone else. In fact I would find it harder to accept, as poets and painters are people with imagination. It's now at this age way beyond me to see that someone with an inbuilt capacity to enjoy beauty couldnt find a way out of this except by a theatrical act, assuming that is the reason they are doing it. i.e. for the hell of it.
 

Dalzi

Legendary Member
الإنتحار ضعف إيمان
Despair is weakness. If you have faith, you have patience, and everything that happens to you in life becomes trivial; there are always people out there that are going through much worse of circumstances than you are. Stick to a proper life style, "think before you leap", and save yourself as well as others the trouble of having to go through such a dreadful experience. (If it’s a physical disease, it’s a different story).

Painters and poets are crazy (I’m not though :D)... They detach themselves from reality and dwell in their own imaginative worlds. They only notice when it’s too late that their "ideal" can never be "real", but it's in that figment of their imagination where they find themselves and nothing but death can end the shocking realization that it’s not and will never be but a mere illusion.

To be honest, I've never felt sorry for those who have committed suicide unless the cause is a "physical" disease that has affected their mentality. I would never kill myself even if the entire world vanishes leaving me behind.
 

Stella

New Member
I would never kill myself even if the entire world vanishes leaving me behind.

I like this spirit:D

A suicide of a famous person is always considered differently than the everyday people, as they are famous in their lives they are famous in their death as well. In addition the self-destructive image just raises their popularity even more, the ever scandalous they are the better:p

My family has a history of depression too, as the primary reason of suicide, we had one too, the brother of my grandma.
But no wonder, after Hungarians being infamous for their suicidal rate, and anyone knows here the hungarian song Gloomy Sunday (1935), which triggered a series of suicides worldwide?
 

Xena

Active Member
What's your opinion about this act?

i don't know, it depends! if it has a meaning then i'm not against it, but if it's only a way to escape problems then i despise people who commit that kind of suicide..
The samurai suicide (aka the Seppuku) in my opinion is a very noble and a very courageous act, since it's very painful!! there was 2 kinds of suicide, the Harakiri which consisted in cutting the abdomen, and the (sorry forgot the name) which consisted of letting another swordsman behead the samurai in one single not painful shot. the latter wasn't considered as an honorable death!.. i think the harakiri is very poetic, since not only it restores the samurai's lost honor, but it's also a proof of a very committed soul that truly beleives and abides by the Bushido ( the warrior's way) till the very end!! and i love and respect this mentality!

now a coward suicide attempt because one's life is too stressful to handle is just, in my opinion, an insult to the Seppuku!

but in general, i'm against it, since i believe that our existence has a meaning, and maybe when we erase ourselves (before our time) from the equation we bring a certain unbalance to the universe.

Did you want to do it?
no.. but probably because it's an immortal sin :biggrin: so i'm definitely not taking any risks for the after life! :p

Do you "excuse" or "understand" who did it or you condemn him/her?
i don't know... it depends!! if it's someone i love then i will never understand why!
If you know someone who suicided, could you tell us what were his/her reasons?

yes, i remember my friend's father committed suicide because he had financial problems or something... that is way too stupid and too selfish!

my mom's aunt committed suicide because she had a rather miserable life.. and honestly i don't blame her, but i blame her family for not helping her... she was a very beautiful woman but she was married to a monster, like every time one of their friends give her compliments about her good looking, he would beat the hell out of her when they get home! crazy man!
so one day she couldn't take it anymore, and so she burnt herself!!!
i mean for a woman to burn herself alive, she surely had a good reason for it! she was probably trying to burn her beauty!

How do you see the suicide of a poet or a painter?
i don't know! as i said it depends! usually artists have a different perception of life, so it depends on their perception of suicide!
 

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
الإنتحار ضعف إيمان

كثير من الناس ممّن ليسوا مؤمنين أو أنّهم بعيدون عن الدين والتديّن نراهم متمسّكين بالحياة، ويستقبلونَ أيامهم بلهفة وشوق إلى عيشها

من جهة ثانية، فإنّ تفجير أحدهم نفسه وسطَ مجموعة من الناس هو فعل انتحار، حتى ولو أُسبغَ عليه عناوين كثيرة وتبريرات، إلا أنه يبقى فعل انتحار، بمعنى أنّ هناك من اتخذَ قراراً بإنهاء حياته بيده. وإذا كان الشاعر ينتحر فيأخذ حياته فحسب، فإنّ الانتحاري لا يرضى إلا بأن يأخذ معه مجموعة من الناس، وفي الحالات الراهنة غالباً ما يكونون من المدنيين. وذلك يحصل، غالباً، بعناوين دينية من أناسٍ يدّعون يقينهم فيما يؤمنون

لا أدري لمَ تحاولين تديين كل شيء. لأني أريد تناول هذا الموضوع ببُعده الانساني، وأنتِ تحاولين تبسيط الأسباب إلى أقصاها بالقول إنّ المنتحر يعوزه إيمان زائد، في محاولة لأدلجة كل شيء مما يأخذ إلى مقاربة هذه الأمور بروح حديدية قاسية لا ترى البُعد الانساني في المسألة، بل جلّ ما تراه هو أنّ المنتحر ضعيف الايمان ومأواه جهنّم. وهذا منتهى القسوة في مقاربة ما جرى عليهم مما أسقطَ كل دوافعهم للاستمرار. هذه مقاربة تعزل المشاعر الانسانية لتحوّل أصحابها إلى قضاة لإطلاق الأحكام​
 

DL

Active Member
Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
that suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
I try to find a way to make
all our little joys relate
without that ever-present hate
but now I know that it's too late, and...



However, I choose to leave it and not take it... Suicide is definitely not painless... How about the scars that you leave behind and the pieces (emotional and pshychological) that your family and loved ones will need to collect after you decided to chicken out and leave?
 

fidelio

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
that suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
I try to find a way to make
all our little joys relate
without that ever-present hate
but now I know that it's too late, and...



However, I choose to leave it and not take it... Suicide is definitely not painless... How about the scars that you leave behind and the pieces (emotional and pshychological) that your family and loved ones will need to collect after you decided to chicken out and leave?


the day they find my body
everybody will call everybody
phones will start to ring
conspiracies will start to swing
A MARTYR! they'll instinctively say
the media will follow th*** way
no investigation and no trial
it's Syria without any denial !
they're slaughtering us in our sleep!
they want us to be th*** sheep !!
Sanioura will call for a meeting
no time for any reading
UN tribunal must be approved !
any obstacle must be removed !
meanwhile i'm being buried
alone, doped but not worried
for in my grave there's no news
no TV, no PC to use
i'm forever deceised
i'm forever releived.
 

Dalzi

Legendary Member
كثير من الناس ممّن ليسوا مؤمنين أو أنّهم بعيدون عن الدين والتديّن نراهم متمسّكين بالحياة، ويستقبلونَ أيامهم بلهفة وشوق إلى عيشها​
Those people love life, we’re talking about those who don’t. You don’t have to have faith to love life, but you need faith to keep living if you happen to hate it.
من جهة ثانية، فإنّ تفجير أحدهم نفسه وسطَ مجموعة من الناس هو فعل انتحار، حتى ولو أُسبغَ عليه عناوين كثيرة وتبريرات، إلا أنه يبقى فعل انتحار، بمعنى أنّ هناك من اتخذَ قراراً بإنهاء حياته بيده. وإذا كان الشاعر ينتحر فيأخذ حياته فحسب، فإنّ الانتحاري لا يرضى إلا بأن يأخذ معه مجموعة من الناس، وفي الحالات الراهنة غالباً ما يكونون من المدنيين. وذلك يحصل، غالباً، بعناوين دينية من أناسٍ يدّعون يقينهم فيما يؤمنون
Suicide is suicide, but there are forms of sacrifices that are done because people are left with no other option. No difference between jumping in a war zone and fighting to death because you have to and between doing what you just said. Of course, it has its rules and it cannot be done like most people do it.
لا أدري لمَ تحاولين تديين كل شيء. لأني أريد تناول هذا الموضوع ببُعده الانساني، وأنتِ تحاولين تبسيط الأسباب إلى أقصاها بالقول إنّ المنتحر يعوزه إيمان زائد، في محاولة لأدلجة كل شيء مما يأخذ إلى مقاربة هذه الأمور بروح حديدية قاسية لا ترى البُعد الانساني في المسألة، بل جلّ ما تراه هو أنّ المنتحر ضعيف الايمان ومأواه جهنّم. وهذا منتهى القسوة في مقاربة ما جرى عليهم مما أسقطَ كل دوافعهم للاستمرار. هذه مقاربة تعزل المشاعر الانسانية لتحوّل أصحابها إلى قضاة لإطلاق الأحكام
What stops you from killing yourself? What gives you patience and strength? The neighbours or the psychiatrist? Haven’t you ever asked yourself why the suicidal rate is on the rise? You don’t need “iman za2ed”, you don’t have to be a religious freak; you just have to have patience and acceptance and this comes from faith. Always compare, look at the world, examine, think, and you’ll notice that you’re much better off than others. This is how you learn to accept hardships. There’s always a bright side to life no matter how difficult it gets. Did I ever mention that “ma2wahum jahhanam”? Who am I to judge? Only God knows what happens to a person, and as I said before there are certain mental conditions that are caused by illness. In these circumstances a person is a victim not a victimiser. But if I decide to end my life coz I don’t like it, then yes, I’m in deep trouble. Why would I kill myself in the most horrible painful way and hurt all those I leave behind when the place I’m moving on to is worse than where I actually am right now? Shou men ldalfe la ta7t lmezreb?

I can come out as a harsh person most of the time. It’s mainly because I believe in the power of the mind. Feelings are put aside and the mind controls (it's where feelings are formed in the first place). There is nothing that cannot be controlled; all it takes is patience and a touch of faith.

As I said before, nothing should make you end your life. It's a precious gift that should be appreciated.
 

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
دالزي

هناك إشكالية محورية نتحاور حولها وهي: "هل الانتحار نقص في الايمان؟". لكنكِ عوضاً عن الحفر فيها وزرع الأفكار التي تعمّق الحوار حولها وتنمّيه، دخلتِ في مونولوج أوصلَكِ إلى خطابِ الموعظة لـ"إقناعي" بالحياة، ومخاطبتي كما لو كنت داعياً إلى عسكها

في الواقع، إنّ هذا يأتي، غالباً، من أننا معتادون على عقلية الدعوة والتبشير لا النقد والتحليل. مَن يفتتح "ثريد" عن إشكالية لا يدلّ هذا أنه، بذلك، يريد التنظير لها والدفاع عنها

لذا، مع احترامي لطريقتك في التعبير بالمونولوج والحديث عن الجيران وما شابه، إلا أني أعتبر أنه لم يلامس جوهر الاشكال

أريد أن أعود إلى سبب الاختلاف معكِ: "هل الانتحار نقص في الايمان؟". في حالة الانتحاري الذي يفجّر نفسه فإنّ الدين يصبح سبباً للانتحار ودافعاً إليه. الايمان الذي تقصدينه هو الايمان الديني. ولذا، تعتبرين أنّ حلّ المشكلة يكون بكلّ بساطة في "كمية" أكبر من الايمان فلا ينقص ويبتعد الخطر

قد "يؤمن" الانسان بنفسه وقد "يؤمن" بالرسم أو الشِّعر وقد "يؤمن" بحبه لامرأة، وقد "يؤمن" بمهنته وسوى ذلك، فتكون تلك الأمور مما يعطيه أسباباً للاستمرار والمواجهة ضد اليأس والسقوط

لا أعزل أهمية الايمان الديني، لأني أعرف تأثيره خصوصاً أنّ لي تجربة فيه. يعطي الأمل الكبير بالتقدّم تحتَ نظرِ إلهٍ مقتدرٍ رحيم. لكن، من التبسيط القول إنّ سبب الانتحار هو أنّ أحدهم نقصَ منسوب إيمانه الديني

ولعلّ ذلك يأخذنا إلى الحديث عن مفهوم الحياة. فهل مَن قلبه قاسٍ وبارد كالضريح هو حيّ؟ والشاعر صاحب القلب المُرْهَف الذي انتحر وبقيَ قلبه وخياله وإبداعه في شِعره هو... مَيْت؟

فقد بحصل أنّ كثيرين من الناس، بإيمان ديني أو بدون إيمان، هم "أحياء" يسيرونَ على الطرقات ويأكلون الطعام ويذهبون ويجيئون، لكنهم أموات في دواخلهم

لا أدافع عن الانتحار بل عن الحياة. لكني أريد أن أعرف وأفهم ماذا جرى على هؤلاء، وكيفَ ولماذا ابتلعَ المنتحر وحشُ الغربة والعزلة واليأس​
 

Felix

Active Member
الإنتحار ضعف إيمان
Despair is weakness. If you have faith, you have patience, and everything that happens to you in life becomes trivial; there are always people out there that are going through much worse of circumstances than you are. Stick to a proper life style, "think before you leap", and save yourself as well as others the trouble of having to go through such a dreadful experience. (If it’s a physical disease, it’s a different story).

To be honest, I've never felt sorry for those who have committed suicide unless the cause is a "physical" disease that has affected their mentality. I would never kill myself even if the entire world vanishes leaving me behind.

I agree with u....i think suicide is an act of weakness with the irony being that pple who have suicidal tendency's think its strong and admirable to kill oneself, when really it is living that takes courage.

Im divided in my thoughts on this issue, on one hand pple who suicide annoy me, b/c they are self absorbed and consider their 'problems' the most dramatic problems in the entire universe, but on the other hand i think its sad that pple find themselves in a position where they feel the only answer or resolution is death.
Many young pple tend to have a romanticized view of death and don't usually consider the consequences of suicide... nor what their life may be like all maimed and brain dead because the attempt wasn't successful.
Hospitals are filled with pple who have survived suicide attempts and are dependent on others to care for them, another irony.

A friend's partner killed himself...stuck his neck on a train track (no accidental survival or coming back from that one) and the impact on her and his family was really intense....but if someone is set on doing it....theres not much anyone can do to help them...they need to let others, help them to help themselves.

Pple who express suicidal ideation need to get themselves some therapy
and artists are no different. Artists may think they are a martyr for apathy but in reality they are not.
As i said b4, it takes courage to live and face ones issues.
 

Renard

Active Member
I have a question to all of you guys, a little beyond the idea of this thread:

If someone committed suicide would you feel sorry for him or her, frown upon him or her, or understand why he or she did it? If you heard someone committed suicide what would be your overall opinion about the person? Not your opinion on "suicide" itself, but how you would view this person? I truly want to hear from you ...

As to me, what I feel towards suiciders, I think they had sank so low in their emotions that they just couldn't get back up, because they lost the two things called Strength & Hope in life. And there were no one to lift them or to give them this attachment to life they needed.

Would you grieve their loss or would you consider them unhuman or not having enough faith, or losers maybe (not to challenge life), etc..?

Please comment ...
 

Stella

New Member
I have a question to all of you guys, a little beyond the idea of this thread:

If someone committed suicide would you feel sorry for him or her, frown upon him or her, or understand why he or she did it? If you heard someone committed suicide what would be your overall opinion about the person? Not your opinion on "suicide" itself, but how you would view this person? I truly want to hear from you ...

In most cases suicide is weakness, bc facing the challenges and all the sufferings of life is what makes you strong. Dieing is easy, really, but to live, now thats something.
But as you put your question, every person is a different case, so maybe with a closer look we can understand them, but it is still weakness. Unless the mere suicide was actually a form of sacrifice for others, in that case it was the brave thing to do.
 

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Renard,

Jeanne Hébuterne is Modigliani's wife. She killed herself when the painter died. She couldn't accept life without him, so she threw herself out of the fifth-floor apartment window two days after Modigliani's death, killing herself and her unborn child.

I don't forgive her for the unborn child because he's an independent life if we can say and she doesn't have the right to decide on behalf of him, but I might "understand" her situation, because her love to Modigliani was, indeed, her "reason" to stay alive, she couldn't imagine a life without him, so she chose Suicide!
 

Renard

Active Member
Unless the mere suicide was actually a form of sacrifice for others, in that case it was the brave thing to do.


I find this interesting.

And I add to my previous thought the following: as advanced as we believe we are, we still are unable to understand the workings of the human mind.

Make it your business to be involved. Smile at a stranger unexpectedly... you never know you might just save someones life.
 

Renard

Active Member
Renard,

Jeanne Hébuterne is Modigliani's wife. She killed herself when the painter died. She couldn't accept life without him, so she threw herself out of the fifth-floor apartment window two days after Modigliani's death, killing herself and her unborn child.

I don't forgive her for the unborn child because he's an independent life if we can say and she doesn't have the right to decide on behalf of him, but I might "understand" her situation, because her love to him was, indeed, her "reason" to stay alive, she couldn't imagine a life without him, so she chose Suicide!

It's true. Suicide victims are called selfish because they took their own lives, leaving behind loved ones to suffer. But allow me to be the devil's advocate and to ask you the following (which is not my opinion anyway): isn't is selfish of people to expect them to stay here and suffer simply to spare someone else grief?
 

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
It's true. Suicide victims are called selfish because they took their own lives, leaving behind loved ones to suffer. But allow me to be the devil's advocate and to ask you the following (which is not my opinion anyway): isn't is selfish of people to expect them to stay here and suffer simply to spare someone else grief?

The question here: Is Suicide a right? I mean: can someone choose suicide as a free choice like we consider that any one of us has the right to choose his/her way of life for example?

In Jeanne's case, I think she could wait until her child's born, because it's his right to enter this life, after that she has the "right" to suicide? But she's a mother! If love is her reason to stay alive then how can she leave her children (she left a daughter too!!)?

No one has the right to make someone suffers to spare himself any grief, but her children are herself!!
 
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