Sumerian and Babylonian roots of Old Testament figures

NewLeb

NewLeb

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The word Adam itself is taken from a Sumerian context of a specific valley and king. The word Eve taken from a specific high priestess. And so we believe Sumerians created it. This is long to explain but found in the lecture.
What’s your point? What exactly did the Sumerians “create?” If their “Adam and Eve” do not refer to the first humans (as we know humanity today) who fell from the Garden, then it’s pointless to even refer to them.

Needless to say, the argument that the Furqan (called the Qur'an) is timeless and precedes those religions is laughable at best. All academic studies go back to the First God ever worshiped being The Mother Goddess of Nature and Agriculture. And not Yahweh. Proven with archealogical evidence from Sumeria and the Indus Valley. And so the Abrahamic (which is a false term as Abraham is taken from Abram) faiths are all wrong and the children of their historic emergence from Mesopotamian Polytheism.
This is retarded, because Allah is not Yahweh. The latter is a tribal Jewish god and deity, the former is Reality itself. Abraham worshipped Oneness; the Jews worship a particular tribal and racial god that they personally call Yahweh.
 
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    𓍝𓂀𓄃𓇼

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    What’s your point? What exactly did the Sumerians “create?” If their “Adam and Eve” do not refer to the first humans (as we know humanity today) who fell from the Garden, then it’s pointless to even refer to them.
    It points to First Sumerian King Adam and has the exact basic plot of the garden story. He's not the First Man though. Although Eve (who is not his wife but a high priestess) is created out of one of his ribs. So there's some nuance there. Judaism seems to have interpreted their myth from the carvings on the wall, but didn't capture or include the exact story.

    This is retarded, because Allah is not Yahweh. The latter is a tribal Jewish god and deity, the former is Reality itself. Abraham worshipped Oneness; the Jews worship a particular tribal and racial god that they personally call Yahweh.
    Abraham is Abram, the Bablyonian from Ur. There's no evidence suggesting he worshiped the Muslim God or solely One God (at best he was dedicated to one god like a Hindu dedicated to Shiva but accepted their whole chain / family). The oldest tablets he is mentioned in are polytheistic. Look at the 4000 years old Mari Tablets found in Mari Syria which mention him and mention the gods at his time. Example:

    "Speak thus to Zimri-Limking of Mari]: Thus (says) the apilumprophet [literally, "the answerer (of questions)"] of Shamash [the sun god]. Thus says Shamash, lord of the country: 'Please send immediately to me in Sippar, in order that prosperity continue [literally, "for life"], the throne intended for my splendid residence, as well as your daughter whom I already have re quested o!f you. . . . Now, as concerns Hammurabi, king of Kurda, he has spoken criminally against you. But when he attacks, you will be victorious; thereafter you are to relieve the land of its indebtedness. I grant you the whole land. When you take the city, you are to declare amnesty from debts."

    On Allah not being Yahweh, that's a long topic. Let's just say that most of the stories of Yahweh are mentioned in the Qur'an as stories of Allah.
     
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    NewLeb

    NewLeb

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    It points to First Sumerian King Adam and has the exact basic plot of the garden story. He's not the First Man though. Although Eve (who is not his wife but a high priestess) is created out of one of his ribs. So there's some nuance there. Judaism seems to have interpreted their myth from the carvings on the wall, but didn't capture or include the exact story.
    You are extrapolating theories based on nothing. Are you suggesting that the Sumerian myth is a complete fabrication, or the remnants of actual pre-history? If it’s the latter, then the Abrahamic religions simply correlate with this pre-historical information that ancient peoples (who came before Abraham) knew all along.

    Abraham is Abram, the Bablyonian from Ur. There's no evidence suggesting he worshiped the Muslim God or solely One God (at best he was dedicated to one god like a Hindu dedicated to Shiva but accepted their whole chain / family).
    There is no “Muslim god;” as Islam itself means submission. Ergo, Muslims submit to The Reality, as opposed to worshipping a god.

    The Abrahamic religions make it clear that Abraham worshipped the One God, so I’m not sure what exactly your trying to convey here.

    The oldest tablets he is mentioned in are polytheistic. Look at the 4000 years old Mari Tablets found in Mari Syria which mention him and mention the gods at his time. Example:

    "Speak thus to Zimri-Limking of Mari]: Thus (says) the apilumprophet [literally, "the answerer (of questions)"] of Shamash [the sun god]. Thus says Shamash, lord of the country: 'Please send immediately to me in Sippar, in order that prosperity continue [literally, "for life"], the throne intended for my splendid residence, as well as your daughter whom I already have re quested o!f you. . . . Now, as concerns Hammurabi, king of Kurda, he has spoken criminally against you. But when he attacks, you will be victorious; thereafter you are to relieve the land of its indebtedness. I grant you the whole land. When you take the city, you are to declare amnesty from debts."
    Once again, you are extrapolating theories based on pure conjecture: 1) We don’t exactly know if this is the Abraham of the Monotheistic religions (in fact, modern scholars have found no evidence of his existence to begin with) ; and 2) even if it was, all that the above shows is that polytheists injected their polytheistic notions into sacred history, the same why Christians corrupted the Oneness of God with their own polytheistic notions.

    Allah not being Yahweh, that's a long topic. Let's just say that most of the stories of Yahweh are mentioned in the Qur'an as stories of Allah.
    That’s not the point. Yes, the God of the Jews and Muslims are the same in a contextual sense, but the Jews nevertheless take Him as a racial and tribal god of their own, while Allah is the Lord of all humanity, and has no special affinity towards any particular tribal or racial group.
     
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    𓍝𓂀𓄃𓇼

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    You are extrapolating theories based on nothing. Are you suggesting that the Sumerian myth is a complete fabrication, or the remnants of actual pre-history? If it’s the latter, then the Abrahamic religions simply correlate with this pre-historical information that ancient peoples (who came before Abraham) knew all along.
    Sumerian mythology is certainly fictional to a great extent. And the creation myth in Levantine religions too. As biological science has established evolution and other facts about our universe.

    There is no “Muslim god;” as Islam itself means submission. Ergo, Muslims submit to The Reality, as opposed to worshipping a god.

    The Abrahamic religions make it clear that Abraham worshipped the One God, so I’m not sure what exactly your trying to convey here.

    No evidence that he worshiped one God in archaeology.

    Once again, you are extrapolating theories based on pure conjecture: 1) We don’t exactly know if this is the Abraham of the Monotheistic religions (in fact, modern scholars have found no evidence of his existence to begin with) ; and 2) even if it was, all that the above shows is that polytheists injected their polytheistic notions into sacred history, the same why Christians corrupted the Oneness of God with their own polytheistic notions.



    That’s not the point. Yes, the God of the Jews and Muslims are the same in a contextual sense, but the Jews nevertheless take Him as a racial and tribal god of their own, while Allah is the Lord of all humanity, and has no special affinity towards any particular tribal or racial group.
    Modern Scholars have actually found a lot of evidence of his existence. Refer to Abraham and Archæology George A. Barton. He is certainly mentioned in the Mari Tablets in adjacency to biblical stories. And they excavated his hometown Ur.

    Problem with claiming "polytheists ruined the older traditions of monotheism" is the fact that there's no evidence of such monotheism prior to this polytheism. But many mountains of evidence to the contrary, showing that monotheism in a God of All / The Reality / The Supreme came from polytheism, which in turn came from the initial worship of the Mother Goddess of Agriculture, which came from the belief in some hidden magic in the Universe which was not ascribed to gods. That's the tree that's academically established.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

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    Sumerian mythology is certainly fictional to a great extent. And the creation myth in Levantine religions too. As biological science has established evolution and other facts about our universe.
    Except that you don’t really know whether it’s an absolute myth. What exactly has scientific evolution established that contradicts the creation myth? If you’re going to perceive the universe from a solely materialistic perspective, don’t expect to see anything but the physical.

    No evidence that he worshiped one God in archaeology.
    We don’t have a lot of evidence for a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean it discounts the possible existence of said things.

    Modern Scholars have actually found a lot of evidence of his existence. Refer to Abraham and Archæology George A. Barton. He is certainly mentioned in the Mari Tablets in adjacency to biblical stories. And they excavated his hometown Ur.
    The general modern and scientific community don’t know whether he truly existed. It is your interpretation (along with the scholars you mentioned) who believe he is the exact same person as mentioned in the aforementioned tablets. There’s really no way of truly knowing this until major archeological discoveries are made....

    Problem with claiming "polytheists ruined the older traditions of monotheism" is the fact that there's no evidence of such monotheism prior to this polytheism. But many mountains of evidence to the contrary, showing that monotheism in a God of All / The Reality / The Supreme came from polytheism, which in turn came from the initial worship of the Mother Goddess of Agriculture, which came from the belief in some hidden magic in the Universe which was not ascribed to gods. That's the tree that's academically established.
    Ah, but it does matter if Abraham did indeed worship and submit to One God. Anyway, there’s really no such thing as “evidence of monotheism” to begin with, as monotheism itself rejects notions of idolatry and acknowledging anything else but the real self. Ancient and pre-historical societies knew that this knowledge was already within them, for by knowing oneself, one knows the Divine. How those civilizations interpreted the various forces of the physical universe are a completely different matter.

    Indeed, it makes no difference what theory you gravitate towards in explaining how the universe works (whether it be science or the mother goddess). Ultimately, it doesn’t matter, as Truth is within man himself.
     
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    𓍝𓂀𓄃𓇼

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    Hmm, I doubt current monotheism was found in older societies... But no point going in circles... We'll see what archealogy brings to the table.
     
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