The Attacks on (Mainly Female) Journalists During l 7irak/Sawra

leb-wi-noss

leb-wi-noss

Legendary Member
Do approved threads have to be justified each time ta 7adder 7ale next time? The purpose is stated above. I suppose I thought the harassment and maltreatment of women in media deserved deeper conversation than just video shares in an updates thread. Perhaps about the systemic/representational issues that turn some people into misogynistic ****s when they encounter a woman they disagree with. Like, I really don't think Samir Sfeir would've been screaming "3ohr" at a male reporter like a goddamn lunatic and I don't think the men gesturing at Rima Hamdan would've done that to a (straight) male reporter. And I think it'd be fun (yikes) to discuss it with other Lebanese on these here interwebs. But maybe I'm wrong and this really isn't the space for it. Who says it isn't women-friendly :)

Separately, I know this is less relevant for members who mostly use this site conversationally, but the oroom often pops up as a top hit in a google search when looking for really niche Lebanon-related things. So I thought a thread would be a helpful one-stop-shop for those of us who usually use this site as that kind of resource.
Is the maltreatment is male reporter ok? Why we are focusing on women? Maltreatment on any journalist while they are doing their job is not accepted.
Now we have to define what maltreatment is. I would say when people refuse to talk to a reporter because they don't like the tv channel, is not a maltreatment. When a reporter insist on making interviews and people start making noise around her and express their annoyance from her tv station is not a maltreatment. As long as there is no physical harassment, equipment destruction or violence there is not called maltreatment. It's perfectly legal for any protestor to refuse interviewing or being rude to a reporter especially if the tv station she/he works for is creating rumors, spreading lies, and making up stories about the revolution. Let alone that the reporter is provocative and tries to "تشتري المشكل" all the time.
Check the title of this video from OTV and see the content. It's like those YouTube videos that are attracting viewers by using a controversial video to get the most hits possible while its content has nothing to do with it.

 
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  • leb-wi-noss

    leb-wi-noss

    Legendary Member
    You should all go watch Joelle and how she dealt with Joe Maalouf in the Studio. She went and gave him a lecture cause she didn’t like what he said about Aoun. She goes crazy on any person who criticize her God. WTF! Who told her we live in a totalitarian system where we can’t mention the name of the president. If she dealt this way with Joe, imagine how she reacts with the average Joe.
     
    Nevermore

    Nevermore

    New Member
    You should all go watch Joelle and how she dealt with Joe Maalouf in the Studio. She went and gave him a lecture cause she didn’t like what he said about Aoun. She goes crazy on any person who criticize her God. WTF! Who told her we live in a totalitarian system where we can’t mention the name of the president. If she dealt this way with Joe, imagine how she reacts with the average Joe.
    I'm not convinced that you understand the topic of this thread.
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Is the maltreatment is male reporter ok?
    No. Is violence maltreatment of women reporters okay? Your post suggests maybe yes depending on their viewpoint.

    Why we are focusing on women?
    It's the focus I chose in the original post because it addresses both freedom of the press and women's rights. The intersection is important. And the fact that folks keep asking why we need to talk about it ironically shows that we probably need to talk about it. If others want to discuss attacks on journalists more generally, I'll gladly read THAT thread.

    Maltreatment on any journalist while they are doing their job is not accepted.
    Again, very much agree!

    Now we have to define what maltreatment is. I would say when people refuse to talk to a reporter because they don't like the tv channel, is not a maltreatment. When a reporter insist on making interviews and people start making noise around her and express their annoyance from her tv station is not a maltreatment.
    With this first part - that's right both under international standards and most national standards. This may be an annoyance, but is not either maltreatment or harassment.

    As long as there is no physical harassment, equipment destruction or violence there is not called maltreatment.
    This categorically wrong. Of course speech can be harassing. You're going to sit here and tell me that physical sexual gestures by a large group of men or screaming "3ohr" at a female is not harassment? And that the former is not, specifically, sexual harassment? That's ridiculous and wouldn't pass muster in any mujtama3 byi7erim 7alo. You don't need to get to physical destruction for it to be maltreatment, harassing, and borderline violent. What is happening to Dima Sadek right now is absolutely harassment and borderline violent. I don't give a s*** what she's said about Nasrallah, Bassil or anyone else. Sustained, repeated threats, surrounding someone, menacing or sexually explicit gestures, all of these are harassing and are not physical.

    It's perfectly legal for any protestor to refuse interviewing or being rude to a reporter
    Of course refusing an interview is legal and perfectly acceptable. Again, we have to be specific. As I said above, everyone has a right not to speak to the reporters. What they do not have the right to do is harass her.

    especially if the tv station she/he works for is creating rumors, spreading lies, and making up stories about the revolution. Let alone that the reporter is provocative and tries to "تشتري المشكل" all the time.
    This is utterly besides the point. The moment we start saying this is "provocative" or "propaganda" or that their reporting is questionable and therefore justify harassment and even violence against them on that basis, we're justifying the unjustifiable based on the viewpoint. Worse still, it's a slippery slope that allows violent targeting of journalists and media organizations of all kinds (think attacks on Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya in the past in Iraq or Israeli targeting of Palestinian journalists).

    You should all go watch Joelle and how she dealt with Joe Maalouf in the Studio. She went and gave him a lecture cause she didn’t like what he said about Aoun. She goes crazy on any person who criticize her God. WTF! Who told her we live in a totalitarian system where we can’t mention the name of the president. If she dealt this way with Joe, imagine how she reacts with the average Joe.
    If this month proves anything, it's that everyone in power has been criticized without any legal consequences and that's good. Whether Joe Maalouf and Joelle got in arguments over what's acceptable to say or not is not really the point here. I'm thankful Lebanon is a society where he can criticize the president and she can defend him and it's open for all the public to see and then everyone can go home at the end of the day. What I'm advocating above is for it to stay that way and for no journalist (but specifically women journalist) to fear doing her job, whether she does it poorly or not or whether the viewpoint of their particular outlet is awful or not. Whether an outlet is awful or not is the subject of another thread.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    I thought you guys are all about equality... what difference does it make if it’s an attack on a male or female reporter?

    Oh, I forgot, women are special beings....
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I thought you guys are all about equality... what difference does it make if it’s an attack on a male or female reporter?

    Oh, I forgot, women are special beings....

    US, peasants: women disproportionately face violence, particularly sexual in nature, when trying to do their jobs, and maybe we should address the structural issues that lead to that.

    You, galaxy brain: i thought you wanted equality though?
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    US, peasants: women disproportionately face violence, particularly sexual in nature, when trying to do their jobs, and maybe we should address the structural issues that lead to that.
    The OP is about TV reporters, and most TV reporters in Lebanon are female. You do the math....
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The OP is about TV reporters, and most TV reporters in Lebanon are female. You do the math....
    I know what's in the OP. And when the level of attacks against these female reporters is reduced to that against the few men, I'll start to worry about math. There's a difference between structural and sexualized violence and being caught in generalized violence.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    I know what's in the OP. And when the level of attacks against these female reporters is reduced to that against the few men,
    We’ll need some evidence to show that female reporters are attacked solely because of their gender.

    In this day and age of hyper-sensitivity where women rule, any sort of negative remark against a woman is considering “sexual assault.” You guys already put all the real men in prison...what more do you want?
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    How did you get every sentence in this factually wrong? How is that even possible? Sib shi jimleh we7deh bil ghalat even.

    We’ll need some evidence to show that female reporters are attacked solely because of their gender.
    No one said solely. I even said repeatedly that the motivation was largely their gender AND their perceived political views. Either way, if you're not convinced that gender was a (major) factor in how Rima Hamdan was gestured at repeatedly, there's no amount of evidence in the world that will convince you and I don't teach either journalism or gender and violence 101. You can hit up some classes at AUB for that. You may find them intellectually stimulating, even. People who think gender parity is good are not the evil feminazis of your imagination, but are thoughtful and working through both messaging and impacts.

    In this day and age of hyper-sensitivity where women rule, any sort of negative remark against a woman is considering “sexual assault.”
    This is generalized bs that literally no one has ever said. It's what you hear in your own head when someone tells you that women face disproportionate assault/harassment/etc or when they say that sometimes words and gestures can rise to harassment (NO ONE HAS SAID WORDS OR GESTURES ARE ASSAULT).

    You guys already put all the real men in prison...what more do you want?
    Please provide evidence of "all the real men in prison" otherwise you're just making stuff up and living in your own world. Last I checked, a serial harasser got a prime spot on MTV to defend himself.

    And is being partly defended like this:
    And this is the kind of sentence that a person who killed his wife gets: Lebanese Man Sentenced To 9 Months In Prison For Beating And Torturing His Wife
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    No one said solely. I even said repeatedly that the motivation was largely their gender AND their perceived political views. Either way, if you're not convinced that gender was a (major) factor in how Rima Hamdan was gestured at repeatedly, there's no amount of evidence in the world that will convince you and I don't teach either journalism or gender and violence 101. You can hit up some classes at AUB for that. You may find them intellectually stimulating, even. People who think gender parity is good are not the evil feminazis of your imagination, but are thoughtful and working through both messaging and impacts.
    It may have been a factor, but so what? If I wanted to insult a fat person, I’ll call him fat. In the same vein, if I wanted to ridicule a woman, I’d do so by taking aim at her female attributes. Again, what’s the big deal here?

    AUB? The place is full of leftist nerds who believe anything their enlightened Western teachers tell them. I should know, since I graduated from there.

    This is generalized bs that literally no one has ever said. It's what you hear in your own head when someone tells you that women face disproportionate assault/harassment/etc or when they say that sometimes words and gestures can rise to harassment (NO ONE HAS SAID WORDS OR GESTURES ARE ASSAULT).
    Please provide evidence of "all the real men in prison" otherwise you're just making stuff up and living in your own world. Last I checked, a serial harasser got a prime spot on MTV to defend himself.
    Yes, people are usually given the chance to defend themselves....

    And is being partly defended like this:
    Oh cry me a river. These women dress all scantily, go to nightclubs, and complain about stupid crap. I assure you, if a girl put an ice cube in a man’s pants, the usual suspects would just laugh it off and congratulate her for being “independent.” But if a man does it- boy oh boy....

    And this is the kind of sentence that a person who killed his wife gets: Lebanese Man Sentenced To 9 Months In Prison For Beating And Torturing His Wife
    I’m not familiar with the nuances of this case, so I can’t comment on it.
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    It may have been a factor, but so what? If I wanted to insult a fat person, I’ll call him fat. In the same vein, if I wanted to ridicule a woman, I’d do so by taking aim at her female attributes. Again, what’s the big deal here?

    AUB? The place is full of leftist nerds who believe anything their enlightened Western teachers tell them. I should know, since I graduated from there.




    Yes, people are usually given the chance to defend themselves....



    Oh cry me a river. These women dress all scantily, go to nightclubs, and complain about stupid crap. I assure you, if a girl put an ice cube in a man’s pants, the usual suspects would just laugh it off and congratulate her for being “independent.” But if a man does it- boy oh boy....



    I’m not familiar with the nuances of this case, so I can’t comment on it.
    This is fruitless. I reply with facts and real examples and you provide stereotypes and generalizations. The critical analysis skills we each picked up from AUB couldn't possibly be more divergent. Anyway, you go ahead and enjoy ridiculing people for their physical attributes like many of your counterparts in the protests (reaffirming the original problem I pointed to).
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    This is fruitless. I reply with facts and real examples and you provide stereotypes and generalizations. The critical analysis skills we each picked up from AUB couldn't possibly be more divergent. Anyway, you go ahead and enjoy ridiculing people for their physical attributes like many of your counterparts in the protests (reaffirming the original problem I pointed to).
    Bet.
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
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