• Before posting an article from a specific source, check this list here to see how much the Orange Room trust it. You can also vote/change your vote based on the source track record.

The Ella Tannous vs Dr. Issam Maalouf case

ForeverOrange

Well-Known Member
Do you think antibiotics early on and just out of fearing that opportunistic bacteria could profit from her weakened immune system could have saved her ??

I am now talking technical and not trying to know whose fault it is

Yes. Provided it is the right antibiotics. (There are tens of different antibiotics)
Iv antibiotics.
Not the oral augmentin that the dad was advocating on tv.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Yes. Provided it is the right antibiotics. (There are tens of different antibiotics)
Iv antibiotics.
Not the oral augmentin that the dad was advocating on tv.
As you might have noticed at no time I referred to the parents medical suggestions
Just asking out of curiosity and to know in case of similar thing happens with my kids.

Now I remember that one of my kids got 5 days of high fever when she was 3 years old.
The doctor didn't prescribe anything unusual and didn't ask for any special blood test !!!
We were somehow worried but never thought things might risk to go that nasty...

After seeing poor Ella's case, I will surely be asking the doctor to prescribe a full battery of tests
 

eLad

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
"الغرغرينا المتوازية" تؤدّي إلى بتر الأطراف حالة فُجائية من الصعب السيطرة عليها




نشرت "مايو كلينك" دراسة عن 12 حالة مرت على مدى 15 عاماً، شبيهة بحالة الطفلة ذات الاشهر الثمانية التي شغلت الرأي العام مضللاً من البعض.

تبين في نتائج الدراسة ان الاصابة بحالة "الغرغرينا المتوازية" سببت وفاة ثلاثة من الـ 12 حالة، وبتر عضو واحد او اكثر في 8 حالات من الناجين، 4 منهم احتاجوا الى بتر الاطراف الاربعة. واعتبر اطباء "مايو كلينك" ان هذه الحالة لا يمكن تفاديها على الرغم من وجود المرضى في غرف العناية الفائقة، فكيف لو ان المريضة كانت طفلة ونقلت من مستشفى في منطقة الى اخرى وامضت نحو 3 ساعات على الطريق في سيارة مدنية؟

ما هي "الغرغرينا المتوازية" وما الذي يسببها؟ وهل في الامكان تفاديها والحفاظ على الاطراف المصابة بها ام ان البتر ضروري للحفاظ على الحياة؟ هذه الاسئلة اجاب عنها الاختصاصي في جراحة الشرايين البروفسور جورج تابت، فقال أن "الغرغرينا" تعني موت الانسجة وهذا يحصل بعد مرور مرحلة نقص الاوكسيجين عنها، وهي تنتج عن نقص في التروية الدموية، جراء نشاف او جلطة او الاصابة بطلق ناري او انقباض في الشرايين، كما يحدث في بعض حالات الالتهاب.
وكل حالات الالتهاب من الممكن ان تسبب افرازات سامة مثل "الستريبتوليزين" الناتج عن التهاب "الستريبتوكوك"، وهذه الافرازات تبقى تعمل حتى بعد اعطاء المضادات الحيوية، ما يفسر بعض الاعراض الجانبية التي قد يعانيها المريض حتى بعد شفائه من المرض.

وأبرز هذه الاعراض الجانبية الاصابة بداء المفاصل او تضييق في صمام القلب الذي من الممكن ان يحدث حتى بعد الشفاء. هناك بعض الاشخاص المهيئين اصلا للاصابة بانقباض في الشعيرات الوريدية، مما يسهل حدوث انقطاع وصول الدم الى الاطراف.

وفي حالات اخرى يسبب الالتهاب هبوطاً في الضغط، فيدافع الجسم بتضييق في الشرايين الرفيعة، لدفع الدم من الاطراف الى الاعضاء الحيوية كالدماغ والكلى. وهناك بعض العلاجات التي تستخدم في الانعاش الطبي تعمل على زيادة هذا الانقباض مما يؤثر ايضا على وصول الدم الى الاطراف ويزيد تدفقه بالاعضاء الحيوية للمحافظة على حياة المريض. وفي حالات استثنائية ونادرة جدا، يكون الانقباض قوي لدرجة انه يمنع الدم منعا باتا من الوصول الى الاطراف مما يؤدي الى حدوث الغرغرينا اي موت الانسجة فيها، فيستوجب بترها قبل ان تتسبب بتسمم الجسم بكامله وبالتالي الوفاة.

والمشكلة في حالات الغرغرينا ان التشخيص يحصل بعد فوات الاوان، لذلك يجب ابقاء المصاب بتسمم جراء الالتهابات الحادة في العناية الفائقة للحفاظ على عدم انخفاض ضغط الدم، ومنع حصول الجفاف، والمراقبة عن كثب، لضبط حالته الصحية من خلال اعطائه عيارات الادوية اللازمة والمناسبة.
النهار
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
ELNashra

هل تعترف بأنك أخطأت في تشخيص وضع الطفلة ايلاّ طنوس؟
نعم أعترف بأنني أخطأت في تشخيص الوضع.

عند هذين السؤال والجواب تنهار كل عراضات المرجلة النقابية والكلام الكبير والانفعالي والتهويلي الذي شهدته نقابة الأطباء، وتسقط محاولات أخذ القضية الى مكان آخر واعتماد استراتيجية ان أفضل طريقة للدفاع هي الهجوم، كما محاولة الهروب الى الأمام من خلال التصويب على الاعلام لأحداث دخان يُغطي الخطأ الطبي الجسيم الذي وقع.


لكن الدكتور عصام معلوف، وبعيدا من انفعالات النقابة أعاد تصويب الأمور من خلال الإعتراف الذي قدَّمه:
التحقيق معه أمتد على مدى ثماني ساعات، من الاولى بعد الظهر حتى التاسعة مساء في حضور ضابط المباحث الجنائية ومحامي نقابة الاطباء من آل الأسطا.
لم يترك المحقق سؤالاً الا وسأله، الى ان وصل السؤال المفتاح:
هل تعترف بأنك أخطأت بتشخيص وضع ايلا طنوس؟
القنبلة نعم أعترف بأنني اخطأت.

ماذا تريد نقابة الاطباء بعد هذا الاعتراف؟ الطبيب عصام معلوف الذي كانت له جرأة الاعتراف، وبأنه لم يتابع وضع الطفلة ايلاّ طنوس عن كثب، وبأنه طلب فحص الدم لكنه لم يُجر زرعاً لهذا الفحص، ولو فعل لكان عرف الفيروس وأعطى فوراً المضاد المطلوب.
اما المفاجأة الثانية المدوية فهي ان الطبيب معلوف، وبعد انتهاء التحقيق، تقدَّم من الضابط وقال له:


أشكرك حضرة الضابط على انكم اوقفتموني وانكم عاملتموني بكل احترام وتهذيب وبالتالي فقد ارتاح ضميري.

بالتأكيد اطلعت النقابة على هذه التفاصيل، فكيف تصرفت؟
فبدلاً من ان تواكب التحقيقات وتُحيي موقف القضاء وجرأة الطبيب الذي ادلى باعترافاته، راحت تهول بعظائم الأمور ومئة طبيب متواجد في القاعة راحوا يمننون الناس بأنهم يطببوهم؟ انه آخر الزمان، فهل الاطباء يطببون مجانا؟ كم منهم راكم الثروات من جراء مهنته؟ أين الضريبة التي يدفعونها على ارباحهم الطائلة؟ لماذا دائما يجب ان يكونوا كإمرأة قيصر فوق الشبهات؟ اذا كان هؤلاء المئة يطببون مجاناً فليتوقفوا لكنهم سيكونون أول الخاسرين لأنها مهنتهم ويتقاضون منها الأجور الباهظة، فهل يضحكون على الناس حين يهولون بوقف الطبابة؟

أليس لديهم من الحكمة ما يكفي ليعمدوا الى التروِّي بدل الإنفعال؟ اليس لديهم ما يكفي من العقلاء ليحسبوا حساب ما يتفوهون به؟
ان خطأ إرتكبه طبيب، وكل ما قام الاعلام به هو انه أضاء على الخبر، فهل هذه جريمة؟ هل الجريمة في الاضاءة على خطأ طبي أو في محاولة التغطية على هذا الخطأ؟ هل الاعلام هو الذي تسبب ببتر يدي ورجلي ايلا طنوس؟ ايهما اجدى لنقابة الاطباء؟ ان تهاجم الاعلام او ان تتداعى لتأخذ على عاتقها تأمين كلفة معالجة الطفلة ايلا؟ كما فعل واجبه مشكورا وزير الصحة وائل ابو فاعور الذي طلب من مجلس الوزراء رصد 150 مليون ليرة لتطبيب ايلا طنوس في الخارج. بإمكان نقابة الاطباء، ان تعلن انها ستتكفل بكلفة علاج أضعاف أضعاف هذا المبلغ للمعاونة على زرع أطراف إصطناعية لايلا طنوس الطفلة الضحية البريئة، فبهذه الطريقة تكون قد كفرت عن خطأ طبي ارتكب بحقها.

ثم ان الاخطاء لا يجوز ان تمرّ بعد اليوم من أي نوع كانت، لا الاخطاء الطبية ولا الاخطاء القانونية ولا الاخطاء في حق الاعلام الذي يجب ان يتوقف عن كونه مكسر عصا.
الى كلّ المتحاملين على الاعلام نقول:
حين بدأ وزير الصحة وائل ابو فاعور حملته على الفساد قال كلمته الشهيرة شريكي في هذه الحملة هو الاعلام، فمن دونه لا استطيع فعل شيء، وفعلا فقد استطاع الاعلام اسقاط كل الحمايات التي كانت تحمي الفاسدين والمواد الغذائية الفاسدة. من دون الاعلام كيف كانت لحملة محاربة الفساد ان تنجح؟ ألم يكن الاعلام يدعى لمواكبة اعمال الدهم؟ ألم يدع للكشف عن اهراءات القمح غير المطابقة؟ ألم يدع لدهم مستودعات السكر في طرابلس؟ ماذا عن المسالخ والمسامك غير المطابقة؟ لولا الاعلام من كان يجرؤ على كشفها أو بدء معالجتها؟
ثم اذا كانت هذه هي رسالة الاعلام، فلماذا يجب على هذه الرسالة ان تتوقف عند ابواب بعض المستشفيات والعيادات ونقابة الاطباء، فهل هذه قلاع لا يجوز طرق ابوابها؟

ان كل هذه المؤسسات لا تساوي اطراف ايلا طنوس، ولا تساوي دمعة أمها ولا قهر أبيها، فيا ايها المتحاملون اليس لديكم فلذات اكباد؟ الا تشعرون مع ايلا ومع والديها؟ فقد سلم والدا ايلا ابنتهما الى طبيب وها هي الآن من دون يدين ورجلين وحيناً مع عاهة دائمة.
الاعلام سيتابع رسالته، والقضاء سيتابع دوره، اما المتحاملون فليتحملوا من الآن فصاعدا، ولن يقوى احد على عدم احقاق الحق للناس.
حسنا اعترف الطبيب الجريء بخطأه واراح بذلك ضميره أمام الله والطفلة ايلا.
 
Last edited:

eLad

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
ELNashra

هل تعترف بأنك أخطأت في تشخيص وضع الطفلة ايلاّ طنوس؟
نعم أعترف بأنني أخطأت في تشخيص الوضع.

عند هذين السؤال والجواب تنهار كل عراضات المرجلة النقابية والكلام الكبير والانفعالي والتهويلي الذي شهدته نقابة الأطباء، وتسقط محاولات أخذ القضية الى مكان آخر واعتماد استراتيجية ان أفضل طريقة للدفاع هي الهجوم، كما محاولة الهروب الى الأمام من خلال التصويب على الاعلام لأحداث دخان يُغطي الخطأ الطبي الجسيم الذي وقع.


لكن الدكتور عصام معلوف، وبعيدا من انفعالات النقابة أعاد تصويب الأمور من خلال الإعتراف الذي قدَّمه:
التحقيق معه أمتد على مدى ثماني ساعات، من الاولى بعد الظهر حتى التاسعة مساء في حضور ضابط المباحث الجنائية ومحامي نقابة الاطباء من آل الأسطا.
لم يترك المحقق سؤالاً الا وسأله، الى ان وصل السؤال المفتاح:
هل تعترف بأنك أخطأت بتشخيص وضع ايلا طنوس؟
القنبلة نعم أعترف بأنني اخطأت.

ماذا تريد نقابة الاطباء بعد هذا الاعتراف؟ الطبيب عصام معلوف الذي كانت له جرأة الاعتراف، وبأنه لم يتابع وضع الطفلة ايلاّ طنوس عن كثب، وبأنه طلب فحص الدم لكنه لم يُجر زرعاً لهذا الفحص، ولو فعل لكان عرف الفيروس وأعطى فوراً المضاد المطلوب.
اما المفاجأة الثانية المدوية فهي ان الطبيب معلوف، وبعد انتهاء التحقيق، تقدَّم من الضابط وقال له:


أشكرك حضرة الضابط على انكم اوقفتموني وانكم عاملتموني بكل احترام وتهذيب وبالتالي فقد ارتاح ضميري.

بالتأكيد اطلعت النقابة على هذه التفاصيل، فكيف تصرفت؟
فبدلاً من ان تواكب التحقيقات وتُحيي موقف القضاء وجرأة الطبيب الذي ادلى باعترافاته، راحت تهول بعظائم الأمور ومئة طبيب متواجد في القاعة راحوا يمننون الناس بأنهم يطببوهم؟ انه آخر الزمان، فهل الاطباء يطببون مجانا؟ كم منهم راكم الثروات من جراء مهنته؟ أين الضريبة التي يدفعونها على ارباحهم الطائلة؟ لماذا دائما يجب ان يكونوا كإمرأة قيصر فوق الشبهات؟ اذا كان هؤلاء المئة يطببون مجاناً فليتوقفوا لكنهم سيكونون أول الخاسرين لأنها مهنتهم ويتقاضون منها الأجور الباهظة، فهل يضحكون على الناس حين يهولون بوقف الطبابة؟

أليس لديهم من الحكمة ما يكفي ليعمدوا الى التروِّي بدل الإنفعال؟ اليس لديهم ما يكفي من العقلاء ليحسبوا حساب ما يتفوهون به؟
ان خطأ إرتكبه طبيب، وكل ما قام الاعلام به هو انه أضاء على الخبر، فهل هذه جريمة؟ هل الجريمة في الاضاءة على خطأ طبي أو في محاولة التغطية على هذا الخطأ؟ هل الاعلام هو الذي تسبب ببتر يدي ورجلي ايلا طنوس؟ ايهما اجدى لنقابة الاطباء؟ ان تهاجم الاعلام او ان تتداعى لتأخذ على عاتقها تأمين كلفة معالجة الطفلة ايلا؟ كما فعل واجبه مشكورا وزير الصحة وائل ابو فاعور الذي طلب من مجلس الوزراء رصد 150 مليون ليرة لتطبيب ايلا طنوس في الخارج. بإمكان نقابة الاطباء، ان تعلن انها ستتكفل بكلفة علاج أضعاف أضعاف هذا المبلغ للمعاونة على زرع أطراف إصطناعية لايلا طنوس الطفلة الضحية البريئة، فبهذه الطريقة تكون قد كفرت عن خطأ طبي ارتكب بحقها.

ثم ان الاخطاء لا يجوز ان تمرّ بعد اليوم من أي نوع كانت، لا الاخطاء الطبية ولا الاخطاء القانونية ولا الاخطاء في حق الاعلام الذي يجب ان يتوقف عن كونه مكسر عصا.
الى كلّ المتحاملين على الاعلام نقول:
حين بدأ وزير الصحة وائل ابو فاعور حملته على الفساد قال كلمته الشهيرة شريكي في هذه الحملة هو الاعلام، فمن دونه لا استطيع فعل شيء، وفعلا فقد استطاع الاعلام اسقاط كل الحمايات التي كانت تحمي الفاسدين والمواد الغذائية الفاسدة. من دون الاعلام كيف كانت لحملة محاربة الفساد ان تنجح؟ ألم يكن الاعلام يدعى لمواكبة اعمال الدهم؟ ألم يدع للكشف عن اهراءات القمح غير المطابقة؟ ألم يدع لدهم مستودعات السكر في طرابلس؟ ماذا عن المسالخ والمسامك غير المطابقة؟ لولا الاعلام من كان يجرؤ على كشفها أو بدء معالجتها؟
ثم اذا كانت هذه هي رسالة الاعلام، فلماذا يجب على هذه الرسالة ان تتوقف عند ابواب بعض المستشفيات والعيادات ونقابة الاطباء، فهل هذه قلاع لا يجوز طرق ابوابها؟

ان كل هذه المؤسسات لا تساوي اطراف ايلا طنوس، ولا تساوي دمعة أمها ولا قهر أبيها، فيا ايها المتحاملون اليس لديكم فلذات اكباد؟ الا تشعرون مع ايلا ومع والديها؟ فقد سلم والدا ايلا ابنتهما الى طبيب وها هي الآن من دون يدين ورجلين وحيناً مع عاهة دائمة.
الاعلام سيتابع رسالته، والقضاء سيتابع دوره، اما المتحاملون فليتحملوا من الآن فصاعدا، ولن يقوى احد على عدم احقاق الحق للناس.
حسنا اعترف الطبيب الجريء بخطأه واراح بذلك ضميره أمام الله والطفلة ايلا.
What a load of crap!
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What a load of crap!

Well it is your right not to agree
but would you care to elaborate why is it crap ?
She claim that the doctor admitted making an error.

The question is now what does the law says when there is a medical error?
Does it allow the prosecutor to arrest the doctor ? For how long ?
What are the charges ? When does the trial starts ?
What are the possible compensations ???

Posting articles from here or there does not justify the "error" in case there is one.
Saying other kids died in the intensive care does not justify not giving Ella the right intensive care and hope for the best

Or do you want things to go as usual:
oops I made error, never mind I will pay more attention next time. Who's NEXT ????
 

Rock

Well-Known Member
You didnt get where the crap is?

it seems obvious from the article itself where the crap is...

First,
The investigation is not to be made public at all, ever!

Second,
He was being interrogated in medical matters with the only present people, his lawyer and an ISF officer! who of them understand what the doctor is talking about? will they know what is the correct diagnostic?

Third,
Yes he made a mistake in his diagnostic... would any other doctor in his place get the right diagnostic?
Let's say you go to your doctor with high fever... he would probably consider this a common flu and give you a few paracetamol pills and tell you to wait 3 to 5 days
But your flu doesnt go away after the 5 days so he was wrong about the first diagnostic and starts looking for some other causes...
If you had Ebola virus, you would have died on the 3rd day!

Medical error?


Well it is your right not to agree
but would you care to elaborate why is it crap ?
She claim that the doctor admitted making an error.

The question is now what does the law says when there is a medical error?
Does it allow the prosecutor to arrest the doctor ? For how long ?
What are the charges ? When does the trial starts ?
What are the possible compensations ???

Posting articles from here or there does not justify the "error" in case there is one.
Saying other kids died in the intensive care does not justify not giving Ella the right intensive care and hope for the best

Or do you want things to go as usual:
oops I made error, never mind I will pay more attention next time. Who's NEXT ????
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You didnt get where the crap is?

it seems obvious from the article itself where the crap is...

First,
The investigation is not to be made public at all, ever!

Second,
He was being interrogated in medical matters with the only present people, his lawyer and an ISF officer! who of them understand what the doctor is talking about? will they know what is the correct diagnostic?

Third,
Yes he made a mistake in his diagnostic... would any other doctor in his place get the right diagnostic?
Let's say you go to your doctor with high fever... he would probably consider this a common flu and give you a few paracetamol pills and tell you to wait 3 to 5 days
But your flu doesnt go away after the 5 days so he was wrong about the first diagnostic and starts looking for some other causes...
If you had Ebola virus, you would have died on the 3rd day!

Medical error?

Investigation is secret this is true but leaks have always existed. I don't think you minded Fares Khashan leaks about Hariri investigation at the time.
Plus she only reported one thing. I am sure you can forgive her for that.

As for the interrogation the LOP lawyer was present and we didn't know what they really talked about in case it was technical or procedural... So your assumption does not stand.

As for the medical error, it was clear after few days that the problem is not only flu.
Yet he failed to treat her appropriately.
If you bothered listened to what the LOP itself said in its report:
Khata2 akhla2i mema 7al douna e3ta2iha Al 3ilaj almounaseb.

As I said people might die in the intensive care but at least you have done what you can to save them. This is did not happen with Ella.

Finally instead of LOP barking in the street it would be better to handle this case with transparency and responsibility.

@ForeverOrange said he got sued for error and his insurance settled with the plaintiff for 1M$ . if this hadn't happen he would have faced court.
In Ella case LOP is refusing to admit the error before even discussing how to settle.
It is not the aim to jail the doctor but to bring justice to this girl whose life is ruined.
But since u are well in ur chair having all ur members you don't care about this innocent girl w btesfo2 nazariet. Do u see now where is the crap ???


PS as you can see the problem is not the doctor himself but the barking LOP
 
Last edited:

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
قاضي التحقيق في بيروت يرجئ استجواب الطبيب الموقوف عصام معلوف إلى الغد في موضوع الطفلة ايلا طنّوس (NBN)

Most probably he will be released on bail until the trial.
I repeat that the goal is not to jail the doctor but to give this girl justice. And of course on case of medical error, the appropriate compensation so she can be well treated
 

lebanese1

Legendary Member
20:15 محامي الدفاع عن الطبيب عصام معلوف للـ"او تي في": بحكم القانون يجب ان يترك الطبيب بعد 5 ايام من توقيفه وكل ما قيل عن لسان معلوف غير صحيح
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
20:15 محامي الدفاع عن الطبيب عصام معلوف للـ"او تي في": بحكم القانون يجب ان يترك الطبيب بعد 5 ايام من توقيفه وكل ما قيل عن لسان معلوف غير صحيح
So the prosecutor acted within the law. Why the fuss then created by LOP
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
I don't believe in dignity of anyone, starting from the Pope downwards.
Long gone are the days of doctors being gods (dakhilak 7akim...)
If there are grounds for prosecution he should be prosecuted.
Whether he should be jailed during trial or not ? this is a technical issue discussed between his lawyer, the prosecutor and the court.
Who is saying Doctors are Gods? Medicine and having pt's lives in your hands dictate that a physician be protected and have ease of mind to provide the best care possible. A doctor can't properly do his/her job if there are people watching his every action and monitoring every step he makes. Sometimes risky decisions have to be taken, and having a potential lawsuit on the back of your mind will make you think twice before proceeding to anything, potentially leading to harming the patient.

This is where I disagree with you, this is not a sacred profession.
Nothing should be beyond reach.
I don't know on what basis the prosecutor arrested him, probably he managed to consider the case as criminal investigation...But I am unable to determine the legal ground he was based on. Anyway the doctor has no doubt a lawyer and the LOP and most probably he will be released on bail until the trial.
It is a sacred profession whether you agree or not. You don't get decide on the matter with all due respect. Medicine is the noblest profession in human history, and doctors need be protected if to provide the best care possible for their patients.
And in the field of medicine, misdiagnosis does occur. If we are to explain to you the checks and balances in the field, you would reconsider your position. First, a differential diagnosis is made, and potential diagnosis excluded one by one, till at the end a proper diagnosis made. This can take from a few minutes to weeks, and it is common and perfectly acceptable in the medical community. Patients may deteriorate or have complications in the meantime, and this sometimes constitute one piece of the puzzle ultimately leading to a diagnosis. Other times, a simple physical exam will suffice to establish a diagnosis.
Medicine, in its history, was built on trial and error. That's how medicine managed to evolve and patient care improved. Many patients died on the operating table before many of the current surgical techniques were created. Would any of those surgeons been jailed for killing the patient, medicine might still be in the dark ages and not have evolved. This many sound inhuman, but Medicine evolves by mistakes and trial and error. A lot of physicians take risks when creating new treatment modalities or new surgical techniques. If they have to worry about lawsuits and jail for every misstep they take, say goodbye to new inventions and advance in care.

As for the doctor being released on bail, you'd wish. The gynecologist arrested few years ago was held for a couple of months before he was found innocent and released. In Lebanon, the media is the judge and jury.

No one should be jailed if not guilty. But sometimes there are cases all over the world when police arrest suspects and investigate them then present them to a judge who decides whether to grant them bail or not. DSK was arrested and jailed for several days based on simple accusations from the hotel maid.
That does not apply to medicine and malpractice cases.

Clearly you are still missing the point...This is an example from a country where no one is above the law and no one is granted special treatment when a harm is done.

"Los Angeles prosecutors won't make a special exception for Dr. Conrad Murray, the physician accused of administering a lethal cocktail of painkillers and anesthetics to Michael Jackson, and want to charge the physician and hold him overnight just like any other accused perp, sources told ABC News.

Sources said the district attorney will file involuntary manslaughter charges against Murray on Monday.

Murray either can surrender unconditionally or he'll be arrested wherever the LAPD finds him. He'll then be sent to jail while he awaits bond and arraignment -- which may take a day -- and then he'll be released, assuming he makes bail."
Clearly it's you who is missing the point. This is a criminal case. What this Dr did was criminal. He administered narcotics outside the scope of medical indications.
Since you are so keen on mentioning the US medical field, in the US physicians are protected by having malpractice insurance costing them thousands of dollars per year. Whenever a malpractice case is opened, all sides are forced to sign no disclosure agreements, and usually the insurance company settles with the plaintiff if the physician was found at fault, and depending on the degree of the error and the gravity of the consequence. If no deal could be reached, it many reach the courts, but still the doctor is not jailed nor anyone allowed to disclose anything about the case nor even mentioning the doctor's or the patient's names.

Lebanese people need to realize that medical mistakes happen, are common, and will occur even with the best physician whether in US, Cuba or Switzerland. That's how this field works. The same disease can manifest differently in 2 individuals. One might get this symptom, the other might get another symptom. It's not always a clear cut issue of A+B=C so D cures C, far from it. Whenever a malpractice is suspected, a malpractice lawsuit is filed. Either it's solved amicably or it goes to a medical findings committee and disciplinary actions undertaken if the doctor found at fault. in all of this, the security forces have no role anywhere, except if a criminal behavior is suspected.

Moreover, between physicians themselves, medical errors are discussed on routine basis. M&M (Morbidity and Mortality) sessions occur once per week to once per month, and doctors from various disciplines meet and discuss what went wrong and how to avoid it next time. Sometimes, the doctor who made the mistake is crucified by his peers, other times it is used as means to improve patient care and detect the specific area of fault in the machine which led to the problem so it gets fixed.

Now can this witch-hunt be laid to rest?
 

neutral

Legendary Member
my 2 cents:
This case is not about Ella Tannous vs Dr Issam Maalouf. This case is not about what happened to the girl or whether the doctor misdiagnosed the patient or whether he was negligent.

This case has become about years and decades of impunity in cases of medical malpractice, negligence, and fraud... There is a witch hunt going on against the order of physicians and Dr. Issam Maalouf will end up being the victim of it.

I have utmost respect for a lot of doctors, however, I have my doubts on the experience, knowledge and credentials of a lot of doctors, especially some of the ones practicing in Lebanon. You have a lot of physicians that graduate from eastern European countries with questionable skills and knowledge.

We have a running joke here in the US: what do you call someone who graduated last in medical school? a doctor!

I hope this case ends up with some drastic changes to the practice of medicine in Lebanon. An improvement in the level of care at the hospitals will be beneficial to everyone.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am in the medical field in the US, so I know a thing or two about it.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Who is saying Doctors are Gods? Medicine and having pt's lives in your hands dictate that a physician be protected and have ease of mind to provide the best care possible. A doctor can't properly do his/her job if there are people watching his every action and monitoring every step he makes. Sometimes risky decisions have to be taken, and having a potential lawsuit on the back of your mind will make you think twice before proceeding to anything, potentially leading to harming the patient.
It is not a matter of monitoring but a matter of accountability. Every decision has a consequence. Fooling around today and the next day restart business as usual is not ethical nor does it bring credibility to the domain.

It is a sacred profession whether you agree or not.
I will not argue on this point it leads to nowhere

Medicine, in its history, was built on trial and error. That's how medicine managed to evolve and patient care improved. Many patients died on the operating table before many of the current surgical techniques were created.
This is when techniques/technology/knowledge are unknown to the doctors and not when procedures are already defined.

Clearly it's you who is missing the point. This is a criminal case. What this Dr did was criminal. He administered narcotics outside the scope of medical indications.
No you allow me. If you are now telling me what was it about, it is because of investigation that took place and not because of OP that is trying to cover up things.
I am here talking about the assessment of the Ministry of Health regarding the LOP report.
Investigation starts upon suspicions.
Apparently the prosecutor (not me) found a ground for suspicion.


Since you are so keen on mentioning the US medical field, in the US physicians are protected by having malpractice insurance costing them thousands of dollars per year. Whenever a malpractice case is opened, all sides are forced to sign no disclosure agreements, and usually the insurance company settles with the plaintiff if the physician was found at fault, and depending on the degree of the error and the gravity of the consequence. If no deal could be reached, it many reach the courts, but still the doctor is not jailed nor anyone allowed to disclose anything about the case nor even mentioning the doctor's or the patient's names.
It is unfortunate that you didn't read my previous posts about that and how I referred to @ForeverOrange speech.
Bottom line there is an accountability that the insurance cover through compensation.
As a Lebanese citizen I am waiting to see how this little girl will be compensated...
I repeat that the LOP is the one to be blamed because of the lack of transparency.
It is there incompetence at best or conspiracy at worse that lead to this situation.
Media only put a spot light to a case that has been trailing for months
If you don't want your sh*t to go public you need to act responsibly.

Lebanese people need to realize that medical mistakes happen, are common, and will occur even with the best physician whether in US, Cuba or Switzerland. That's how this field works. The same disease can manifest differently in 2 individuals. One might get this symptom, the other might get another symptom. It's not always a clear cut issue of A+B=C so D cures C, far from it. Whenever a malpractice is suspected, a malpractice lawsuit is filed. Either it's solved amicably or it goes to a medical findings committee and disciplinary actions undertaken if the doctor found at fault. in all of this,
Very fine, I agree 100%. still you didn't show me how this was being legally solved.

the security forces have no role anywhere, except if a criminal behavior is suspected.
The FSI didn't act alone but by orders of the prosecutor who might have suspected negligence that requires criminal investigation.



Still I don't understand the fuss caused by LOP over an issue that should be handled legally.
And threatening the society of stopping consultation:
HE WHO CONSULT FOR FREE LET HIM STOP w khalasna ba2a.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
my 2 cents:
This case is not about Ella Tannous vs Dr Issam Maalouf. This case is not about what happened to the girl or whether the doctor misdiagnosed the patient or whether he was negligent.

This case has become about years and decades of impunity in cases of medical malpractice, negligence, and fraud... There is a witch hunt going on against the order of physicians and Dr. Issam Maalouf will end up being the victim of it.

I have utmost respect for a lot of doctors, however, I have my doubts on the experience, knowledge and credentials of a lot of doctors, especially some of the ones practicing in Lebanon. You have a lot of physicians that graduate from eastern European countries with questionable skills and knowledge.

We have a running joke here in the US: what do you call someone who graduated last in medical school? a doctor!

I hope this case ends up with some drastic changes to the practice of medicine in Lebanon. An improvement in the level of care at the hospitals will be beneficial to everyone.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am in the medical field in the US, so I know a thing or two about it.

I totally agree on this analysis.
The reaction of the public opinion is fueled by the sentiment that it has been screwed for years without any accountability.
I know a Lebanese oncologist in Paris who once told me he received a person from Lebanon and used the term "mfaz3in fi". Probably he is bragging and exaggerating but for the public who hears that he gets a bad idea of what is going on there.
For this reason true accountability restores credibility in the system.

I never said Lebanese doctors are all bad. I said like every other place and group there are the good and bad elements.
I also said and still insist that the LOP has a MAFIA mindset
 

leb-wi-noss

Legendary Member
I was watching a couple of previously recorded episodes of 7aki Jeles on LBC today. Three topics where mentioned in these episodes one of them is the Ella Tannous case. The other one about a kid kicked out of school for not paying the tuitions and the case of the Ghabe Mayor/lawyer who caught on tape beating his wife in ABC parking.
What's bothering me most in the three cases is the way the accused responded to these accusations. In the rest of the world, most of the accused, in such cases, don't dare to go on TV to defend themselves, even when sometimes they are wrongly accused. Only in Lebanon, the accused even when he is caught on tape and surrounded with proofs, he has the nerves to go on public to threaten, bribe, accuse and divert subjects.
This is a disgusting culture where 90% of the country is sunk in corruption and lack of ethics. The political class is nothing but a reflection of the people of this country. And each group covers the dirt of those they support.

TFEH!
 

ForeverOrange

Well-Known Member
I once asked a gulfer doctor why they referred the simplest of cases to the United States?
Can't qatar, whose late prime minister is capable of offering to buy four apartments facing central park in NY for $280 million (the deal didn't go through because the building community felt that with two wives and 15 kids, he would occupy the elevators too much), can't these gulfers build a hospital and stop sending their citizens abroad for the simplest of surgeries and care?

He told me that the reason why surgeons don't operate in Qatar, except on the simplest of cases, is out of fear of malpractice. Malpractice is considered a criminal act (the police interrogates you about the facts of the case) which could lead to life imprisonment at worst. "why should I perform any procedure on a patient with diabetes (diabetes increases the risk of post-op infection 5 fold)?"

I hope that the Maalouf imprisonment for an outcome that is not unusual in this case (see the mayo clinic series shared earlier by Elad) isn't going to have Lebanese doctors shy away from operating and treating risky patients by telling family members: "he's old. let him be, he can't tolerate surgery", relating to a patient who would have benefited from a procedure, albeit risky.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I once asked a gulfer doctor why they referred the simplest of cases to the United States?
Can't qatar, whose late prime minister is capable of offering to buy four apartments facing central park in NY for $280 million (the deal didn't go through because the building community felt that with two wives and 15 kids, he would occupy the elevators too much), can't these gulfers build a hospital and stop sending their citizens abroad for the simplest of surgeries and care?

He told me that the reason why surgeons don't operate in Qatar, except on the simplest of cases, is out of fear of malpractice. Malpractice is considered a criminal act (the police interrogates you about the facts of the case) which could lead to life imprisonment at worst. "why should I perform any procedure on a patient with diabetes (diabetes increases the risk of post-op infection 5 fold)?"

I hope that the Maalouf imprisonment for an outcome that is not unusual in this case (see the mayo clinic series shared earlier by Elad) isn't going to have Lebanese doctors shy away from operating and treating risky patients by telling family members: "he's old. let him be, he can't tolerate surgery", relating to a patient who would have benefited from a procedure, albeit risky.


I guess you are deeply mistaken.
The case is not about assessing risk. Doctors tell their patients about the risk they are facing and get their agreement on any risky operation...Actually I feel silly telling that because you are a doctor. In here patients know what they are up to.

You said many of your patients die. It might be very normal in case you are an Oncologist or on any other specialty that deal with lethal diseases.

The case of Ella is completely different.
The parents and the ministry of health noticed tampering in the list of events in the report of LOP. This is the whole story I guess. Anyone will start suspecting a cover up.
This is where everything started...(at least in what I understood after going through the events again)

This is completely different from telling the patient there is 30% of risk in this surgery...

PS. since I replied to @vegojimbo in the case of Michael Jackson doctor. I want to be sure you read my reply. You are able to tell me this is a criminal case, only because there were an investigation by the police...I didn't see any demonstrations against the authorities because they started this investigation
 
Last edited:

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter


* مقدمة نشرة أخبار "الجديد"

لم يعد لايلا طنوس اطراف يتنازعون عليها لكنهم فعلوا وشدوا ابنة الاشهر الثمانية من يديها المبتورتين وقدميها الباحثتين عن قدمين، خسرت ايلا نصف جسدها باهمال طبي وحلت عليها لعنة التجاذب اللبناني فشطرت قضيتها بين قضاء تسلم الملف ونقابة أطباء تدافع عن الطبيب المعالج ورأي عام يمثله الاعلام الذي حوكم اليوم على باب النقابة وأهدر حبره من نقيب اطباء مبتور الاطراف المنطقية.

الدكتور انطوان بستاني وفي اعتصام للجسم الطبي حاضر طويلا في تعيين أصول المهنة الصحفية عوضا من الانصراف الى أصول مهنته الطبية التي كانت تحتم عليه كتابة تقرير غير متعدد الهويات ولا يحمل أي تمييع ينصف ايلا بكلمة حق لن تعوض عليها ما ضاع منها لكنها حكما ستكون عبرة لغيره من الاطباء المهملين وكم من حالات شبيهة وبعضها مات من دون مرض وفي أخطاء غرف العمليات، الطبيب كغيره من الناس يهمل يخطأ وفي أغلب الاحيان ينجح غير انه ليس خارج الحساب وثوبه الابيض لن ينسي الاهل الثياب السود التي ارتدوها على ابنائهم لسبب غير مقدر.

ايلا التي ستكبر غدا بلا لعب مع الطفولة لن تحاسب بنفسها طبيبها فحسب وانما نقابة على رأسها رجل بتر قلبه ولم يذكرها بكلمة عطف.
 
Top