The Exploits, Excesses and Hysteria of the Black Hearted Ziad

AtheistForYeezus

AtheistForYeezus

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Reverting to M14 talking points now? Hal 2add m2azzme ma3ak? Use the 'bajema' story in your next post. :lol:
This just proves that the accusations against Bassil are not unwarranted and that every M8 supporter deeps down admits that FPM's handling of the energy portfolio was a disaster.
The MoU is just a facade so that both parties can leverage each other's political strength.

Want to know what the average FPMer or HA supporter thinks? Wait for the next fiery statement.
 
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  • Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    You’re really all over the board here. Can you summarize in a couple of sentences what your pickle with what he said is? Maybe a brief list would do.
    On my end, I don’t see what an HA supporter should get all up in arms about. An Amal supporter for sure, enno henneh bala daff byer2so...
    This sentence that Mr Black Heart uttered pissed me off:

    "You cant have your people hungry while you carry a gun to fight a foreign enemy".

    Whatever is intended by that and in whatever context becomes irrelevant. He is implying we surrender because we are passing through sting economic times. And we wint surrender. His words will strengthen our resolve to defend the resistance and stand by it in the face of foreign blackmail.

    He should point out in history when did billionaires in suits ever led wars of liberation against external enemies or invaders. A very dumb thing to say at a critical period we are passing through.
     
    Genius

    Genius

    Legendary Member
    He was hinting that Lebanon has to succumb to IMF's conditions because we have no other choice.
    His statement "we have to choose between starvation or HA weapons" is a tacit acceptance of the status quo.

    FPM will choose the economy over HA weapons.
    You are optimistic with their choices.
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Through the parliament.

    1. Drop legal immunity MPs and state officials have
    2. Lift banking secrecy.
    3. Make obligatory asset declaration before and after political or state election/appontment.
    4. Pass a law to have judges appointed, selected or elected by a judiciary body and not appointed by politicians (the FPM itself may not like or agree to this).

    If these laws dont pass in parliament, suspend your participation. That is how to fight corruption and everyone, including myself will cheer for you and join your fight and struggle. Join the protests or the opposition. That is how you fight corruption. You cant be crying about Berri obstructing you in parliament and frustrating your efforts while you are bedfellows in the same corrupt system, parliament and govt.

    FPM cannot eat its cake and have it. You cant take a blurry position if you are serious about fighting corruption. You want to share all the privileges of governance and be in govt and in parliament and hold posts while you expect another party to sacrifice for your demands. That is cynical.

    If you are serious about fighting corruption, get those four items presented in parliament. And if they dont pass into law, resign from parliament and join the opposition on the streets and watch me and everyone join you. You cant be an opposition within the govt.
    I'm not talking about FPM gripes with Berri. I'm asking you because your argument is circular. "Pass laws, prosecute people, present evidence, but also don't touch Berri." And I agree with you on the latter, I think it's naive for FPMers to keep saying HA should address Berri. They can't and won't, for reasons you've pointed to in the past. I'm just pointing out that by the same measure, you can't keep telling FPMers (or posters on this forum lol) that they should pass laws knowing full well that there is no mechanism by which to do that.

    "Resign and we'll join you" is empty and you and I both know it.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Please explain what you think is hypocritical in the situation. I am sincerely interested in the explanation. Please don't revert to personal attack
    You are bedfellows with Berri. You have even elected him for speaker. Walaw. He shut parliament for two years to get Aoun elected. This is how Lebanon works. You are not alone in the country and no one side has it all to itself to impose it's own will. It has always been a divided country. So all those who are banking that tight economic times would pressure Hezballah are just shooting themselves on the foot and punishing their own supporters in Lebanon. Hezballah will continue to subsist like nothing is happening, even though they may show concern for the wellbeing of the country as a whole. However, they will never surrender.

    Besides, if Berri and his friends obstruct the passing of those four items I started above to fight corruption, you can resign from parliament. The hypocrisy kicks in when you eat your cake and want to have it.
     
    mike89

    mike89

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Through the parliament.

    1. Drop legal immunity MPs and state officials have
    2. Lift banking secrecy.
    3. Make obligatory asset declaration before and after political or state election/appontment.
    4. Pass a law to have judges appointed, selected or elected by a judiciary body and not appointed by politicians (the FPM itself may not like or agree to this).

    If these laws dont pass in parliament, suspend your participation. That is how to fight corruption and everyone, including myself will cheer for you and join your fight and struggle. Join the protests or the opposition. That is how you fight corruption. You cant be crying about Berri obstructing you in parliament and frustrating your efforts while you are bedfellows in the same corrupt system, parliament and govt.

    FPM cannot eat its cake and have it. You cant take a blurry position if you are serious about fighting corruption. You want to share all the privileges of governance and be in govt and in parliament and hold posts while you expect another party to sacrifice for your demands. That is cynical.

    If you are serious about fighting corruption, get those four items presented in parliament. And if they dont pass into law, resign from parliament and join the opposition on the streets and watch me and everyone join you. You cant be an opposition within the govt.
    My point is it is not HA's duty to act outside its constitutional role in fighting corruption. And you cant pressure Hezballah to act a voluntary role because it is your demand. That is very selfish. And the FPM is not helpless. You have over 20 MPs in parliament. And over 10 ministers in govt. Let them all resign if certain laws to fight corruption dont pass. We all would support you.
    Well I am a lebanese citizen and all pm have the duty to hear the opinion of all the people and decide how to act accordingly.

    So first, the pm job and duty calls for them to voice their opinion on the points you are raising urself above. Work towards getting good laws implemented.

    I don't understand why that is selfish? Am not asking them to become judges and executioners, but rather doing the job they took up. That's it. Voice their opinion on public matter. Back up these laws and call on their adoption and implementation.

    Second, I m not pressuring anyone. More accurate would be the view, that you are pressuring people not to voice their opinion because of fitna instigation. Calling them hysterical treaturous and hateful. Why is fighting corruption fitna?
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I'm not talking about FPM gripes with Berri. I'm asking you because your argument is circular. "Pass laws, prosecute people, present evidence, but also don't touch Berri." And I agree with you on the latter, I think it's naive for FPMers to keep saying HA should address Berri. They can't and won't, for reasons you've pointed to in the past. I'm just pointing out that by the same measure, you can't keep telling FPMers (or posters on this forum lol) that they should pass laws knowing full well that there is no mechanism by which to do that.

    "Resign and we'll join you" is empty and you and I both know it.
    Hezballah wont do it because it has no legal or constitutional obligation to do anything in the fight against corruption outside the framework of the state institutions. If you are so serious about fighting corruption, resign from parliament and govt and boycott elections and render them illegitimate. You have to choose a cause. Not be in the same govt and in the same parliament as Berri and elect him as speaker and fight for juicy ministerial portfolios and then cry that someone else isnt doing "enough" to fight corruption and then you start making political threats against your ONLY ally in the country. That is crazy. The FPM is the most isolated party in Lebanon. You have no friends or allies other than Hezballah.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You are bedfellows with Berri. You have even elected him for speaker. Walaw. He shut parliament for two years to get Aoun elected. This is how Lebanon works. You are not alone in the country and no one side has it all to itself to impose it's own will. It has always been a divided country. So all those who are banking that tight economic times would pressure Hezballah are just shooting themselves on the foot and punishing their own supporters in Lebanon. Hezballah will continue to subsist like nothing is happening, even though they may show concern for the wellbeing of the country as a whole. However, they will never surrender.

    Besides, if Berri and his friends obstruct the passing of those four items I started above to fight corruption, you can resign from parliament. The hypocrisy kicks in when you eat your cake and want to have it.

    You raise a very good point.
    FPMers blame Hizbullah for not standing up to Berri, but when given the choice, Tayyar MPs voted in favor of reelecting Berri and Salameh...

    Excellent point.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Well I am a lebanese citizen and all pm have the duty to hear the opinion of all the people and decide how to act accordingly.

    So first, the pm job and duty calls for them to voice their opinion on the points you are raising urself above. Work towards getting good laws implemented.

    I don't understand why that is selfish? Am not asking them to become judges and executioners, but rather doing the job they took up. That's it. Voice their opinion on public matter. Back up these laws and call on their adoption and implementation.

    Second, I m not pressuring anyone. More accurate would be the view, that you are pressuring people not to voice their opinion because of fitna instigation. Calling them hysterical treaturous and hateful. Why is fighting corruption fitna?
    When you are asking one party to seek confrontation against its staunchest ally you FPMers regard as most corrupt, isnt that fitnah mongering?
     
    mike89

    mike89

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    When you are asking one party to seek confrontation against its staunchest ally you FPMers regard as most corrupt, isnt that fitnah mongering?
    I ask all people to break with all corrupt. Be them politicians or people who cut the line. And I don't give a **** about their feelings.

    Do you think that is fitna?

    Fictive situation:
    If I get in an argument with a neighbor because he s stealing electricity and call the police on them. Is that fitna?
     
    HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Hezballah wont do it because it has no legal or constitutional obligation to do anything in the fight against corruption outside the framework of the state institutions.
    Correct. It doesn't. It has a political obligation, however, to the people who voted for it to address their material interests, the prime driver of which is corruption (which I think is Ziad's main point). The mechanism to address it through which is controlled by Hizballah's main ally.
    If you are so serious about fighting corruption, resign from parliament and govt and boycott elections and render them illegitimate.
    This is an unserious way to address corruption when you're not a majority and not *actually* able to grind things to a halt. If they had a majority-making ally in doing this, though, an excellent way to address corruption!
    You have to choose a cause. Not be in the same govt and in the same parliament as Berri and elect him as speaker and fight for juicy ministerial portfolios and then cry that someone else isnt doing "enough" to fight corruption and then you start making political threats against your ONLY ally in the country. That is crazy. The FPM is the most isolated party in Lebanon. You have no friends or allies other than Hezballah.
    There were no...threats? Did we watch something different? Yep. It's almost like it's all a double-edged sword.
     
    mike89

    mike89

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    You are bedfellows with Berri. You have even elected him for speaker. Walaw. He shut parliament for two years to get Aoun elected. This is how Lebanon works. You are not alone in the country and no one side has it all to itself to impose it's own will. It has always been a divided country. So all those who are banking that tight economic times would pressure Hezballah are just shooting themselves on the foot and punishing their own supporters in Lebanon. Hezballah will continue to subsist like nothing is happening, even though they may show concern for the wellbeing of the country as a whole. However, they will never surrender.

    Besides, if Berri and his friends obstruct the passing of those four items I started above to fight corruption, you can resign from parliament. The hypocrisy kicks in when you eat your cake and want to have it.
    FPM did wrong in the points you raised. They argue that it is the people's backing in the shiite community. I don't agree with them.

    Let's assume fpm is corrupt. Why is HA not voicing their voices against any corruption from any side? Why is it OK for them to draw red lines against certain politicians?

    You say that amal is kinda blackmailing the community into accepting corruption. Why should people vote for them or support them? Or why shouldn't the other pms plan and implement the laws you talked about yourself. Or even voice an opinion against the people fighting against these laws?

    Why s that fitna?
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Do you think amal is blackmailing HA by waving the fitna flag?
    I really dont know. But things can go wrong if two main parties of a community under attack from all directions start to confront themselves.

    You can listen to the below, especially from 5:10 minutes to 5:15 minutes:

     
    mike89

    mike89

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I really dont know. But things can go wrong if two main parties of a community under attack from all directions start to confront themselves.

    You can listen to the below, especially from 5:10 minutes to 5:15 minutes:


    I almost agree with everything he said. Do you also agree? I don't get it. Isn't the core of his point the same one, as asswads? Voicing an opinion against corrupt people anywhere.

    I don't know the dude, but he seems to make sense.

    Are we afraid of the motocycs and shabbi7a? So HA community is held hostage more or less and we should accept that?
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I ask all people to break with all corrupt. Be them politicians or people who cut the line. And I don't give a **** about their feelings.

    Do you think that is fitna?

    Fictive situation:
    If I get in an argument with a neighbor because he s stealing electricity and call the police on them. Is that fitna?
    That is a great point. You said you would call the police to arrest your neighbor for stealing electricity. Not ask your "other neighbor who's your friend" to take action against the neighbor stealing electricity. You are fighting against the through the legal channel and not by taking law into your own hands or asking your other friendly neighbor to take law into his own hands or to confront the thieving neighbor. Great point.

    This my reply goes to the others too replying to my posts. They're raising similar points. I cant be replying 10 people at the same time and on the same points.

    The LF for example isnt concerned about Berri. They dont even mention his name like the FPM does. It is either they support him, or they dont care or they are cowards. Perhaps FPM seek this confrontation as a way to increase it's popularity. Perhaps, you must have an enemy to prove your strength against and become popular. But you are causing more harm than good here. I see your attitude towards Berri as a power tussle between the first and second presidencies. And no matter how much we agree that Berri or his cronies are corrupt, this is a sectarian country. You should never forget that. Between a corrupt Berri and a racist and corruption free Maronite, I'd choose a corrupt Berri any day. Not because I support corruption, but because Berri represents me in a sectarian zoo. And because my fellow Lebanese from other communities are or can be racist towards me and sectarian and eventually would pretend I dont exist. There is no trust among sects and the system enforces that mistrust. Our entire system needs to be uprooted.

    Again, I'd repeat. There are four items to fight corruption which must become law in parliament:

    1. Drop the legal immunity govt and state officials have.
    2. Make obligatory asset declaration on all govt and state officials before and after holding state offices.
    3. Lift banking secrecy.
    4. An independent judiciary, whereby judges are not appointed by politicians but get appointed through election, selection or nomination in the judicial body.

    Work on thes four items. If they became law, we will see many people go to prison including the big heads. If these four items dont pass in parliament, resign. You have to decide what you want:

    To fight corruption

    Or

    To seek power and get sumptuous posts in the state.

    You cant be seeking power and looking for succulent posts and sharing power with people you deem corrupt, and at the same time you want to fight corruption. You must choose your battle.

    I am 100% with the FPM and its fight against corruption, if you are sincere and I want the FPM to take serious steps. At the same time, I dont want us to play political gimmicks and be throwing blame into different directions and using the fight against corruption to score cheap points and when you yourselves aren't going the extra mile to make sacrifices in fighting corruption. You cant use or sacrifice the unity of others and their peace to fight your battles. In our community, we have hot heads. These hot heads are not the most democratic or the most learned or most exposed to the outside world or most civilised. They dont understand criticism. To some of them Berri is a god. You cant criticize him. And it isnt the duty of another political party to act. No political party has the legal or constitutional responsibility to fight corruption unilaterally. Put the needed legal framework or mechanism in place. If the proposed laws fail in parliament, resign from parliament, resign from govt and let Aoun himself resign as president and boycott all elections and strip everything and the entire corrupt system of it's legitimacy. You are the largest Christian bloc and you can even grow in popularity if you show sincerity in standing up to the corrupt state. Join the protests and demand those four proposed laws to be approved in parliament. that is how you sacrifice in fighting corruption and everyone will applaud you. You can either seek power or you seek fighting corruption but not both.

    There is really nothing more for me to add on this thread presently.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I almost agree with everything he said. Do you also agree? I don't get it. Isn't the core of his point the same one, as asswads? Voicing an opinion against corrupt people anywhere.

    I don't know the dude, but he seems to make sense.

    Are we afraid of the motocycs and shabbi7a? So HA community is held hostage more or less and we should accept that?
    Mohammad Obeid was an Amal chieftain. He was expelled from Amal for "going against organisational orders". He is outspoken against Berri but he still pro Amal (as an organisation) and pro Hezballah and pro resistance. He is a sincere man. In the case of Aswad, his words created suspicion. That sentence that "you cant fight an external enemy while your people are hungry" is insulting to say the least. We have never begged him to feed us. We have fought for our land and freedom when we were in worse shape and Iran, our moral backbone was under attack by Saddam and we didnt surrender. We arent going to surrender today. What the Zionists did not accomplish through wars, and they can never accomplish through wars, they will never accomplish through economic blackmail and sabotage. We will remain steadfast and Aswad's provocative utterances have rallied more support and created more zest for Hezballah. All of social media was on fire even when prominent faces in Hezballah were calming social media pro resistance users and downplaying what Aswad said, perhaps for the sake of maintaining unity with the FPM.
     
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    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    just saw this thread that you started this morning, but I posted this here yesterday October 17 Revolution

    and here is the full interview

    also see this link: October 17 Revolution

    after stating the above, you definitely didnt hear his interview and you blew it out of proportion
    also listen to this:
    I agree. Let's learn to treat ourselves better than we treat others and others treat us. We cant be verbally abusing or insulting ourselves to the joy of our common opponents and enemies, who don't have our interests and the interests of the country at heart. They have the interest of their pockets first and foremost. They have even used the existence of a resistance movement in Lebanon to trade with their political stances and deceive certain pro Zionist powers that they're anti resistance, when the reality is that they are only pro money. These same people would not mind selling the country and agreeing to Tawteen, and giving up on our land, waters and resources if they get financial rewards. So let us all be more respectful to one another and more respectful. I created this thread and I wont mind if the mods delete it. We have insulted ourselves, and made offensive comments, which shouldn't have been made and we have exchanged ideas. We shouldn't give chance to others to divide and separate us. In the end, we have no option than to embrace and make up and move ahead. So I suggest my thread gets deleted for the sake of our unity and because I know many posts, including mine are shameful to read when not in a tense state of anger. @SeaAb
     
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