The French Initiative [BREAKING: Mikati's New Government]

Status
Not open for further replies.

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
how can you do it when 80% of Lebanese support corrupt politicians an war criminals?
Lebanon undr teaf is doomed....only and last solution is federalism....bassil at least is calling for financial decentralization.

big changes in the world did not come from people entering the system and dealing with it and become part of it while pretending not to belong to it!
When it swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then probably it is a duck.
Leaders and reformers lead by example, this is what bring people around them.
80% of the people vote for corrupt because in their opinion there are no other choices, and this is their destiny!
But if you present them with better alternative, they start (slowly at the beginning) to rally around it.

Let me give you a plausible example, few days ago this title appeared الحريري عوم نفسه "سُنيا" does this remind you of something?
Isn't this similar to "Christian Rights" of Bassil?
The bottom line, is that both Basisl and Hariri are corrupt, and they resort to the usual maneuver to redeem themselves.
Unfortunately the people gets the bait every time.

You said suppose FPM/Aoun/Bassil disappear tomorrow, will anything change;
My response to you, OF COURSE NOT, NOTHING WILL CHANGE because the others are also corrupt
Now my question to you, if tomorrow Hariri, Jomblat, Berri disappear do you think anything will change?
My response is also NO!
Simply because Bassil has proven that when he has to choose between his own interests and the common good, he will choose his own interests.


This guy is evil.
The others are too, but Bassil had bigger magnitude because he came as a "wolf in sheep's clothing"
 
Last edited:

JB81

Legendary Member
This is where we disagree.
I have never said others are better.
Your analysis is based on the presemption that Bassil and Aoun are protecting you, while the truth is they are serving themselves and making you dependent on them so they can keep their power.
Imagine that Geagea is doing the same the first ones who will be against is FPM because it will be losing power for LF.

I am from metn, and for a decade Michel El Murr was doing the same, mailing metn people dépend on him and FPM used to criticise this.
Because this does not build a country

Now they are doing the same.
This is the trend that all Lebanese politicians practice.

If you want to build a country you need to break this

You are focusing too much on Bassil. If anything, he makes up 1% of corruption in Lebanon

Hence, you are supporting the true corrupts by attacking Bassil
 

JB81

Legendary Member
big changes in the world did not come from people entering the system and dealing with it and become part of it while pretending not to belong to it!
When it swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it probably it is a duck.
Leaders and reformers lead by example, this is what bring people around them.
80% of the people vote for corrupt because in their opinion there are no other choices, and this is their destiny!
But if you present them with better alternative, they start (slowly at the beginning) to rally around it.

Let me give you a plausible example, few days ago this title appeared الحريري عوم نفسه "سُنيا" does this remind you of something?
Isn't this similar to "Christian Rights" of Bassil?
The bottom line, is that both Basisl and Hariri are corrupt, and they resort to the usual maneuver to redeem themselves.
Unfortunately the people gets the bait every time.

You said suppose FPM/Aoun/Bassil disappear tomorrow, will anything change;
My response to you, OF COURSE NOT, NOTHING WILL CHANGE because the others are also corrupt
Now my question to you, if tomorrow Hariri, Jomblat, Berri disappear do you thing any will change?
My response is also NO!
Simply because Bassil has proven that when he has to choose between his onw interests and the common good, he will choose his own interests.

This guy is evil.
The others are too, but Bassil had bigger magnitude because he came as a "wolf in sheep's clothing"

What happen to the 7% commission for G.B. with dekenet Tahsino? 🤣
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You are focusing too much on Bassil. If anything, he makes up 1% of corruption in Lebanon

Hence, you are supporting the true corrupts by attacking Bassil
ya rafi2 @JB81 3atoul zet el shi, jaded ya man.
No I am not with the other corrupt, they are all corrupt
HARIRI BLUE CORRUPT
BERRI BIG CORRUPT
JOMBLAT YA QERD CORRUPT
BASSIL FRIKI CORRUPT
the list goes on...
they are all corrupt
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
What happen to the 7% commission for G.B. with dekenet Tahsino? 🤣
either reply to the post, or make a new one with your question
I don't know what happened, I didn't watch yet, I wait until the episode is uploaded to youtube
if you have any info, please share ;)
 

The_FPMer

Well-Known Member
big changes in the world did not come from people entering the system and dealing with it and become part of it while pretending not to belong to it!
When it swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it probably it is a duck.
Leaders and reformers lead by example, this is what bring people around them.
80% of the people vote for corrupt because in their opinion there are no other choices, and this is their destiny!
But if you present them with better alternative, they start (slowly at the beginning) to rally around it.

Let me give you a plausible example, few days ago this title appeared الحريري عوم نفسه "سُنيا" does this remind you of something?
Isn't this similar to "Christian Rights" of Bassil?
The bottom line, is that both Basisl and Hariri are corrupt, and they resort to the usual maneuver to redeem themselves.
Unfortunately the people gets the bait every time.

You said suppose FPM/Aoun/Bassil disappear tomorrow, will anything change;
My response to you, OF COURSE NOT, NOTHING WILL CHANGE because the others are also corrupt
Now my question to you, if tomorrow Hariri, Jomblat, Berri disappear do you thing any will change?
My response is also NO!
Simply because Bassil has proven that when he has to choose between his onw interests and the common good, he will choose his own interests.

This guy is evil.
The others are too, but Bassil had bigger magnitude because he came as a "wolf in sheep's clothing"
With all due respect but you're overexaggerating. Someone can be power-hungry but achieve good things at the same time. Bassil could be rapacious but willing cement a legacy in a more productive way than a Joumblatt whose vision of prosperity means staffing Druzes in government and keeping himself in the Saudis' good graces.

I think Bassil has proven that his vision is much more advanced and modern than the rest. The problem is that you're looking for politicians who can represent you in office and that'll never happen. Power is too strong and corrupting. You should look for the least of all evils.

Look at his tenure as Foreign Affairs Minister, you can muddy it with some sycophantic pro-Syria statements, but he's just playing politics. He lobbied successfully to get the expats to vote, of course we should remain cynical and see it from his perspective, he's getting more votes. He was FAM, so he has more reach to the expats' minds than others but still everyone benefited. He organized the diaspora, tried (although measly but still) to get trade deals with Lebanon and corralled industry leaders together in many different summits. Of course he didn't do it in a Christ-like intent, but so what? The guy is obviously miles ahead than the rest of the folks, and it's better to have a goal-driven visionary (by Middle Eastern standards of course) than a profit-driven 2-bit thug.
 

NAFAR

Legendary Member
80% of the people vote for corrupt because in their opinion there are no other choices, and this is their destiny!
But if you present them with better alternative, they start (slowly at the beginning) to rally around it.
Where are the alternatives? it is almost one and a half year since 17 Nov. demos started and still not a single serious alternative progressive organized political movement......unless your alternative is Dima Sadek and Wasif 7araki...

Let us say tomorrow we have elections, what will you do? I personally will vote again for Aswad just to screw Berri in Jezzine and I actually like the guy.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
With all due respect but you're overexaggerating. Someone can be power-hungry but achieve good things at the same time. Bassil could be rapacious but willing cement a legacy in a more productive way than a Joumblatt whose vision of prosperity means staffing Druzes in government and keeping himself in the Saudis' good graces.

I think Bassil has proven that his vision is much more advanced and modern than the rest. The problem is that you're looking for politicians who can represent you in office and that'll never happen. Power is too strong and corrupting. You should look for the least of all evils.

Look at his tenure as Foreign Affairs Minister, you can muddy it with some sycophantic pro-Syria statements, but he's just playing politics. He lobbied successfully to get the expats to vote, of course we should remain cynical and see it from his perspective, he's getting more votes. He was FAM, so he has more reach to the expats' minds than others but still everyone benefited. He organized the diaspora, tried (although measly but still) to get trade deals with Lebanon and corralled industry leaders together in many different summits. Of course he didn't do it in a Christ-like intent, but so what? The guy is obviously miles ahead than the rest of the folks, and it's better to have a goal-driven visionary (by Middle Eastern standards of course) than a profit-driven 2-bit thug.

Never said the guy is an idiot, I said he is corrupt, there is a difference.
As for the elections law, yes it was an improvement, but only because he was sure it benefited him.
Remember what I said: when he has to choose between his own interests and the common good he will choose his own.
In this case, both were aligned, good for him
But I am waiting to see what might happen when he discovers that the lebanese diaspora is no more on his side and they are able to change the result. I am sure he will lobby the other way, or abort the elections until better circumstances.
MARK MY WORD for this.
 
Last edited:

The_FPMer

Well-Known Member
Never said the guy is an idiot, I said he is corrupt, there is a difference.
As for the elections law, yes it was an improvement, but only because he was sure it benefited him.
Remember what I said: when he has to choose between his own interests and the common good he will choose the his own.
In this case, both were aligned, good for him
But I am waiting to see what might happen when he discovers that the lebanese diaspora is no more on his side and they are able to change the result. I am sure he will lobby the other way, or abort the elections until better circumstance.
MARK MY WORD for this.
Yeah but so what?

His interests align with the interests of the Lebanese at the moment because he needs to show results. Aounists' constant cheering impedes progress because it gives Bassil too much leeway and freedom. No politician should be given that, they should be always be kept on a tight leash.

Moreover, The entire world's population talk about the need for sacrifice but only when it involves others. Would you take a pay-cut for just a few months if it means helping another fellow co-worker. Would any CEO or shareholder accept an increase in taxes in order to help other citizens in need? People are selfish, idiotically selfish sometimes, but they are still selfish.

What I'm saying is that Bassil is corrupt, but he's 21st century corrupt, willing to start projects and kickstart the country for his own selfish goals. Others are 20th century Arab dictator corrupt which is at best, stagnating.

Honestly reviewing his tenures, he was way better than most of them combined. Great as telecom minister even though he doesn't get the credit for it (Fta7 el 7anafiye ya 3abdel men3im, something like that, rings a bell?), sketchy as energy minister but he submitted a great plan in 2010 and formidable as foreign minister.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Yeah but so what?

His interests align with the interests of the Lebanese at the moment because he needs to show results. Aounists' constant cheering impedes progress because it gives Bassil too much leeway and freedom. No politician should be given that, they should be always be kept on a tight leash.

Moreover, The entire world's population talk about the need for sacrifice but only when it involves others. Would you take a pay-cut for just a few months if it means helping another fellow co-worker. Would any CEO or shareholder accept an increase in taxes in order to help other citizens in need? People are selfish, idiotically selfish sometimes, but they are still selfish.

What I'm saying is that Bassil is corrupt, but he's 21st century corrupt, willing to start projects and kickstart the country for his own selfish goals. Others are 20th century Arab dictator corrupt which is at best, stagnating.

Honestly reviewing his tenures, he was way better than most of them combined. Great as telecom minister even though he doesn't get the credit for it (Fta7 el 7anafiye ya 3abdel men3im, something like that, rings a bell?), sketchy as energy minister but he submitted a great plan in 2010 and formidable as foreign minister.
Not true, many people are willing to sacrifice, when they believe in the cause and the leader of the cause.
Do you think any of the current FPMers are willing to go get a beating in the street today for the cause? I bet not...
But the comrades in the 90s who most of them left now, were sacrificing their time, security for the cause;
And since you are at it, when the explosion in Beirut happened, I waited until "Donation de France" opened donations for Lebanon (since I don't trust any lebanese NGO) and I gave my share, few days later I was surprised that they called me to thank me for my generous contribution.
As for taxes, I live in France so you can imagine the taxes I pay, so I have no problem paying for the reconstruction of my country.
I might start nagging when most of the taxes go to people who can work but play the system not to work and be get paid "chomage".

PS. it seems the you are flipping side ;) apparently the sectarian strife between Aoun and Hariri benefited both of them, each one in his own camp.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Where are the alternatives? it is almost one and a half year since 17 Nov. demos started and still not a single serious alternative progressive organized political movement......unless your alternative is Dima Sadek and Wasif 7araki...

Let us say tomorrow we have elections, what will you do? I personally will vote again for Aswad just to screw Berri in Jezzine and I actually like the guy.
Unfortunately there is no alternative for the time being... this is sad
In the next elections, if there are no convincing candidates, I will not vote.
Meaning I will not vote for Ibrahim Kanaan nkeyeh b 7ada teni, because all of them are corrupt
 

The_FPMer

Well-Known Member
Not true, many people are willing to sacrifice, when they believe in the cause and the leader of the cause.
Do you think any of the current FPMers are willing to go get a beating in the street today for the cause? I bet not...
But the comrades in the 90s who most of them left now, were sacrificing their time, security for the cause;
And since you are at it, when the explosion in Beirut happened, I waited until "Donation de France" opened donations for Lebanon (since I don't trust any lebanese NGO) and I gave my share, few days later I was surprised that they called me to thank me for my generous contribution.
As for taxes, I live in France so you can imagine the taxes I pay, so I have no problem paying for the reconstruction of my country.
I might start nagging when most of the taxes go to people who can work but play the system not to work and be get paid "chomage".
Well you make good points, but I was talking about large scale sacrifices. My point is that we shouldn't look at politicians for guidance and help but as least malevolent of wolves. That's how I choose politicians, anyone who believes anything else is an bleeping moron especially in Lebanon where corruption is too rampant and too alluring.
PS. it seems the you are flipping side ;) apparently the sectarian strife between Aoun and Hariri benefited both of them, each one in his own camp.
Not at all, I don't get manipulated like that. Grandpa MMM, thinks I'm a Sunni/Arab apologist because his inferiority complex couldn't accept not to blame Sunnis or Arabs for all of our problems. Bel 3akes, I don't think Hariri is pure evil or even Joumblatt. I think the latter is a savvy wise politician, while the former just wants to make money to salvage his crumbling business empire, which makes him extremely predictable. They're not authoritarian like Berri, or smart, markedly influential on a regional scale, ascetic (which makes him harder to corrupt) and highly ambitious like SHN

I've always had this opinion of Bassil. I personally do not fancy him, but he's hard worker with a better plan in mind than the rest. As for Aoun, he's toast and there's nothing he can do about and I don't think he has the intellectual capacity (nothing relating to age) to get himself out of it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top