The French Initiative [Saad Hariri renamed as PM]

[NewLeb]

Well that is easier said than done. Because we own both the match sticks and the water cannon. We are both capable of setting the fire and putting it out. And if per chance you imagine you can borrow match sticks from abroad to burn the country, then it would be an unforgivable mistake when we put out the fire. Do you really think that is a good option? Is it worth burning a country for the sake of a ministry we have already held for years? I think you are smarter than that.

1. I won’t need match sticks... I have the power of my mind.

2. Either way, with the MoF in your hands, it’ll go down the same route, so what’s the real difference here...?

 

[agnostic]

It is not an interpretation. it is "mithaqyyah" between Christians and Muslims. Not by Sunni or Shia or Catholic or Maronites and the rest of the country. Nothing to be interpreted.

Do you think the club des quatre represent the Lebanese Shias?

In addition Arabic is formal in distinguishing the double from the multiple. The constitution speaks about kul 'Tawa2ef should be represented in the government not both Ta2ifatain.

Beside that as I said once, les accords se font et se défont. And if Lebanese Shias refuse to give their approval to a cabinet, la macron wala 2abu elli khallafo can force them give it.

 

[agnostic]

Let's have a Break

 

[Abotareq93]

Actually, the "mithaq" is between Christians and Muslims, not between sects. So if muslims don't show up, then the "jalse" is not "mithaqiyya" not if shia don't show up. The same goes for the other side, if the Christians don't show up then the "jalse" is not "mithaqiyya", not if Catholics don't show up!!!

Mithaquieh depends on Berri's mood. He might consider the session Mithaquieh if Marada alone attended and considers them representatives of the Christians. حسب المصلحة يعني

 

[agnostic]

أن الدستور لحظ في المادة 95 منه التي تتحدث عن إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وجوب تمثيل الطوائف بصورة عادلة في تشكيل الوزارة خلال المرحلة الانتقالية ​

 

[Rafidi]

1. I won’t need match sticks... I have the power of my mind.

2. Either way, with the MoF in your hands, it’ll go down the same route, so what’s the real difference here...?

Well, i would need some time to think over this question. Would that be alright with you?

But you can actually help me out and give me ideas. The MoF was in the hands of the Hariri minions for 25 years or more. We got a debt of over 100 billion and lots of billions stolen. What difference did they make to want to usurp it again just after two years of reclaiming it from their usurpation? Let us do a quarter of the ugly deeds they did and give us 12 years before you can ask such a question to us.

 

[agnostic]

أن الدستور لحظ في المادة 95 منه التي تتحدث عن إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وجوب تمثيل الطوائف بصورة عادلة في تشكيل الوزارة خلال المرحلة الانتقالية ​

See ya FPMers. You were unjustly blaming HA.

 

[SoFP1]

المحادة 95) المعدلحة بالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي 1943/11/9 وبالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي (21/9/1990 على مجلس النواب المنتخب على أساس المناصفة بين المسلمين والمسيحيين اتخاذ الجراءات الملئمة لتحقيق إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وفق خطة مرحلية وتشكيل هيئة وطنية برئاسة رئيس الجمهورية، تضم بالضافة إلى رئيس مجلس النواب ورئيس مجلس الوزراء شخصيات سياسية وفكرية واجتماعية.

 

[agnostic]

المحادة 95) المعدلحة بالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي 1943/11/9 وبالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي (21/9/1990 على مجلس النواب المنتخب على أساس المناصفة بين المسلمين والمسيحيين اتخاذ الجراءات الملئمة لتحقيق إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وفق خطة مرحلية وتشكيل هيئة وطنية برئاسة رئيس الجمهورية، تضم بالضافة إلى رئيس مجلس النواب ورئيس مجلس الوزراء شخصيات سياسية وفكرية واجتماعية.

So what?

 

[SoFP1]

So what?

Mish Amran orthodox wal druze!

 

[Rafidi]

Actually, the "mithaq" is between Christians and Muslims, not between sects. So if muslims don't show up, then the "jalse" is not "mithaqiyya" not if shia don't show up. The same goes for the other side, if the Christians don't show up then the "jalse" is not "mithaqiyya", not if Catholics don't show up!!!

Is there a constitutional definition of what is mithaqiyyeh? To back up your definition.

Actually, from this your definition you are looking for conflict and solutions.

If an entire sect that makes up at least 40% of the population is entirely out of govt and entirely out of parliament and you want to impose a silly definition of mithaqiyyeh on us, then you and those who are pulling your strings are playing with hot blazing fire. I am not threatening anyone here. Otherwise you have to take your words as threat also and provocation and an attempt to throw us out of govt. And that is unacceptable.

Let me actually break it even further for you. All this hair pulling is not because we are so envious of being in govt with you or we really care. It is simple in order to avoid further conflict and for all of us to be part of governance and for us to have our share, the share reserved for our sect - you even want to deny us that. And you are really going too far. You are going too far because if we attempt to pay back and deny you in the same way, you wont be feel good.

You can have any definition of mithaqiyyeh you wish from any where. If we choose to boycott parliament or shut it, boycott an election or a govt, do you really think you can rule the entire country smoothly, even if we dont protest and we dont block roads and we dont burn tyres and we dont fire a bullet and we dont do anything. We simply boycott and stay at home and waving white flags and throwing rice. Do you honestly think everything will move smoothly? Is that the country you want?

 

[Rafidi]

Laws need parliament approval
what the government did on May 5 was the enforcement of a pre-existing law banning illegal telecom networks, no parliament vote was needed here since the law was already voted on.

In other words, the govt can easily hide behind any law to pass whatever stupid decisions. This is the reason we would be respected and be treated as part of this country and part of the decision making process or we wont accept and we wont recognise any govt that tries to sideline us. Any govt that tries to sideline us, the least we would do is to sideline it. And then what?

 

[Rafidi]

So the Catholic, or siryen can shut down parliament if they don't show up? It doesn't make sense. Not true at all. More like wishful thinking.

What if we shut the parliament? Will you enter parliament through the windows? We are a major community. We are not 2% of Lebanon. We own this land and we the most indigenous people on this land.

 

[agnostic]

Not only some FPMers want Shias to not be represented in the government, in contradiction with the constitution, they also claim that HA should approve such government.

Anyway zaha2tuna with over repeating the same blames and whinings.

 

[agnostic]

أن الدستور لحظ في المادة 95 منه التي تتحدث عن إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وجوب تمثيل الطوائف بصورة عادلة في تشكيل الوزارة خلال المرحلة الانتقالية ​

Notice the bad faith of those blaming Shias and HA, while ignoring this article of the Constitution.

 

[SoFP1]

Is there a constitutional definition of what is mithaqiyyeh? To back up your definition.

Actually, from this your definition you are looking for conflict and solutions.

If an entire sect that makes up at least 40% of the population is entirely out of govt and entirely out of parliament and you want to impose a silly definition of mithaqiyyeh on us, then you and those who are pulling your strings are playing with hot blazing fire. I am not threatening anyone here. Otherwise you have to take your words as threat also and provocation and an attempt to throw us out of govt. And that is unacceptable.

Let me actually break it even further for you. All this hair pulling is not because we are so envious of being in govt with you or we really care. It is simple in order to avoid further conflict and for all of us to be part of governance and for us to have our share, the share reserved for our sect - you even want to deny us that. And you are really going too far. You are going too far because if we attempt to pay back and deny you in the same way, you wont be feel good.

You can have any definition of mithaqiyyeh you wish from any where. If we choose to boycott parliament or shut it, boycott an election or a govt, do you really think you can rule the entire country smoothly, even if we dont protest and we dont block roads and we dont burn tyres and we dont fire a bullet and we dont do anything. We simply boycott and stay at home and waving white flags and throwing rice. Do you honestly think everything will move smoothly? Is that the country you want?

المحادة 95) المعدلحة بالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي 1943/11/9 وبالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي (21/9/1990 على مجلس النواب المنتخب على أساس المناصفة بين المسلمين والمسيحيين اتخاذ الجراءات الملئمة لتحقيق إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وفق خطة مرحلية وتشكيل هيئة وطنية برئاسة رئيس الجمهورية، تضم بالضافة إلى رئيس مجلس النواب ورئيس مجلس الوزراء شخصيات سياسية وفكرية واجتماعية.

As for the rest about 40% etc...I am not going to answer because its a non ending issue i don't have enough time or patience for. We deal with what we have now. If you want to start counting, then some other would want to change a lot of other things.

For the last part, the duo and their Sunni brother, did even worse when they ran the country with no representation for Christians for decades with your Syrian brethren.

I am not asking for no representation of anyone but it should be fair, not MOF is ours w balto el ba7er. We won't get anywhere with this attitude, coming from duo or any other faction of the country.

 

[Rafidi]

Doha basically gave the shi3a a veto power on everything in the country.
it kinda enforced something like muthelateh, while all chrisitians are seen as 1, + sunnis + shi3a.

Actually it is not our own fault that the Maronites have monopolized Christian representation in govt. For example, Sunnis + Shia + Druze make up the 64 seats. Shias get 27 and Sunnis get 27 seats. Druze (if I am not mistaken) get 10 seats.

Why do Maronites get 34 seats in parliament? That is not half of 64 Christian seats.

There is a tradition in Lebanon of one group trying always to outsmart the others since independence. And this is a Lebanese traditional. Everywhere you find Lebanese, we try to invent shortcuts to empower us over others and we feel superior. This is me and this you. This did not start with Hezballah or Amal. Amal and Hezballah met this system of bias and partiality and discrimination. Whatever they are trying to do is thus a reaction to this ugly tradition which is part and parcel of our system of things and our system of govt.

There is need for deep rooted change.

 

[agnostic]

The Shias explicitly put their conditions to be represented in the government. No one and no power in the entire world can force Lebanese Shias to be part of the government if they don't want.

 

[Resign]

In other words, the govt can easily hide behind any law to pass whatever stupid decisions. This is the reason we would be respected and be treated as part of this country and part of the decision making process or we wont accept and we wont recognise any govt that tries to sideline us. Any govt that tries to sideline us, the least we would do is to sideline it. And then what?

then you become an outlaw and you sideline yourself
simple
either we live in the same state under the same set of laws and a constitution or you don't.
If you believe in jungles then start demanding for federalism to be implemented and let the rest of the country mind their own business having 'almost' nothing to do with you apart from agreeing on a foreign policy which surely will be another problem at the central level.

However to obstruct the formation of a government that the international community promised to support and to unlock well needed aid for the Lebanese people who are suffering, that's called treason.
if you don't trust your fellow Lebanese or governments ran by other Lebanese then by all means, start demanding for federalism or even better, start calling for partitioning.

 

[Rafidi]

المحادة 95) المعدلحة بالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي 1943/11/9 وبالقحانون الدسحتوري الصحادر فحي (21/9/1990 على مجلس النواب المنتخب على أساس المناصفة بين المسلمين والمسيحيين اتخاذ الجراءات الملئمة لتحقيق إلغاء الطائفية السياسية وفق خطة مرحلية وتشكيل هيئة وطنية برئاسة رئيس الجمهورية، تضم بالضافة إلى رئيس مجلس النواب ورئيس مجلس الوزراء شخصيات سياسية وفكرية واجتماعية.

As for the rest about 40% etc...I am not going to answer because its a non ending issue i don't have enough time or patience for. We deal with what we have now. If you want to start counting, then some other would want to change a lot of other things.

For the last part, the duo and their Sunni brother, did even worse when they ran the country with no representation for Christians for decades with your Syrian brethren.

I am not asking for no representation of anyone but it should be fair, not MOF is ours w balto el ba7er. We won't get anywhere with this attitude, coming from duo or any other faction of the country.

You are quoting about munasafe. 50/50.

I am asking you about the definition of what is mithaqiyyeh. Any constitutional definition?