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The French Initiative [Saad Hariri renamed as PM]

elias-aj

Legendary Member
You were just accusing me of whataboutism. This hypocrisy that comes from you guys stinks.

Take action against them at the party level. Expel them or suspend their membership until they are proven innocent. That is how a decent party claiming to fight corruption should act. In the end, you will realize that even your party leader might need or might have to be suspended.

In a liberal democracy (ya3neh not like beloved Iran or beloved KSA or beloved Twitter), people are innoncent until found guilty. Not guilty until they prove they're innocents.

Some tweets and articles relaying rumors, are not established facts and can not be used to accuse someone of anything. When you accuse someone of something, like corruption, you have to support your claim with proof. Otherwise, it's called defamation.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
In a liberal democracy (ya3neh not like beloved Iran or beloved KSA or beloved Twitter), people are innoncent until found guilty. Not guilty until they prove they're innocents.

Some tweets and articles relaying rumors, are not established facts and can not be used to accuse someone of anything. When you accuse someone of something, like corruption, you have to support your claim with proof. Otherwise, it's called defamation.

You are getting it all wrong.

You can do your research.

There are times when politicians have been accused of wrongdoing doing in liberal democracies. And they voluntarily resign to clear their names or they were suspended by their parties until their names are cleared.

You have no standing to preach about liberal democracy. Please take a nap.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
@elias-aj

And talking about defamation and evidence. The two accused persons are/were public servants. In other words, they work for me. That is how simple and lowly ministers are in civilised countries. They're not gods or company owners who can threaten to sue people for defamation when called to account either by the people or authorities or by investigative journalists. Your former ministers have been accused by journalists and certain informations revealed or exposed.

They should clear their names. Or are you guys only good at fighting corruption when others are at the receiving end?
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
Man they posted some kind of excel that they wrote with her name and two transfer dates. They wrote the number of the Swiss bank wrong, in reverse (because they were using Arabic setting or wrote it wrong) w tele3 ma3on Korea country code.

W kamen they didn’t mention the lebanese bank that she supposedly sent from...

W the Swiss bank that they named is a canton bank that some said only takes accounts from residents of that canton.

W anyway the Swiss bank denied it on twitter and said this “document” is fake.

Check it out on twitter it’s hilarious
Get ready for a few essay-length posts marred with stubbornness and cerebral gymnastics... Loooooooool
 

elias-aj

Legendary Member
You are getting it all wrong.

You can do your research.

There are times when politicians have been accused of wrongdoing doing in liberal democracies. And they voluntarily resign to clear their names or they were suspended by their parties until their names are cleared.

You have no standing to preach about liberal democracy. Please take a nap.

Yes, when they are under a judicial investigation, not when some guys throw some baseless accusations. Twitter, Kataeb.org or MTV are not judges.

Oh, and I don't think you are in a position to decide whether I could preach or not about liberal democracy. You don't even know what a liberal democracy is.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Our friend @Walidos Is preaching about corruption in another thread at this moment. FPMers are good in seeing the sawdust in the eyes of others but not the plank on their own eyes. Start by fighting corruption in your own party. Anyone accused of corruption, suspend his membership until he is cleared of any wrong doing. Dont pretend you are all angels and only others are capable of going corrupt while you are immune or infallible.
I can tell you there is absolutely, categorically, no corruption in my party :) zero, zilch! People come, eat, drink, socialise and have fun... then leave... they don’t pay, and there is no quid pro quo expected...
As for FPM go resolve your complexes with them... I really couldn’t care less... though good luck making the argument that any corruption in FPM is a plank when compared to the sawdust that is Berri’s corruption!
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
1. Lebanese Christians can't change anything
2 The "other power hungry billionaire boys club of former prime ministers" are allied with the West and the Batrak
3. I repeat you that we HA don't ask any support
4. Nobody is impeding you from bringing peace. The only suggested peace is simply a total reddition that majority of the Lebanese refuse.
1- the Christians can do much, But this just comes to show your extreme arrogance- typical
2- I don’t know, I don’t care. I am not siding with one asshole against another asshole. They can both go to hell as far as I am concerned.
3- you don’t, yet you encroach on my rights and the rights of plenty who have a right to an opinion that differs from your own, yet you blatantly disregard them and want to make the decisions unilaterally
4- again not true. There are no suggested peace proposals. The last American one most people rejected, from all sects, and bidoun ma 7adan yrabbi7na jmileh.

net, you are acting as if you are the only ones in the country, well news flash, you are not...
 

SeaAb

Legendary Member
Staff member
Super Penguin
Man they posted some kind of excel that they wrote with her name and two transfer dates. They wrote the number of the Swiss bank wrong, in reverse (because they were using Arabic setting or wrote it wrong) w tele3 ma3on Korea country code.

W kamen they didn’t mention the lebanese bank that she supposedly sent from...

W the Swiss bank that they named is a canton bank that some said only takes accounts from residents of that canton.

W anyway the Swiss bank denied it on twitter and said this “document” is fake.

Check it out on twitter it’s hilarious
Ya3ne ma mnefsela la Nada from the party metel ma beddo @Rafidi? Tab, ma tezghar, le2eelo 7adan ma7ala yna22er 3leh shway in the meantime.:cigar:
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
1- the Christians can do much, But this just comes to show your extreme arrogance- typical
2- I don’t know, I don’t care. I am not siding with one asshole against another asshole. They can both go to hell as far as I am concerned.
3- you don’t, yet you encroach on my rights and the rights of plenty who have a right to an opinion that differs from your own, yet you blatantly disregard them and want to make the decisions unilaterally
4- again not true. There are no suggested peace proposals. The last American one most people rejected, from all sects, and bidoun ma 7adan yrabbi7na jmileh.

net, you are acting as if you are the only ones in the country, well news flash, you are not...
1. Change what for example?
PS: I admit I didn't choose well my wordings. I noticed that when I wrote it and thought I changed it. But seems I posted it quickly without changing the wordings

2. Ru2. This is not a way to dialog in intelligent and respectful manner. Specially when you accuse me of arrogance.

3. Show me what rights I am infringing

4. You interpreted my statement 3ala hawak, not as it should be interpreted NORMALLY. And I don't even see how you did interpret my statement.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
Scary stuff
I know that this guy has connections and has info
How accurate this piece of info is
Only time will tell


Actually Khalid Mumtaz said a big lie at 0:55 that is essential for the smooth running of his scenario. He claimed that 2 months ago USA signed a defense treaty with Israel, and therefore USA will automatically join any war between Lebanon (HA) and Israel. Nevertheless Reuters published less than a month that USA and Israel were still discussing such treaty source

The message looks CIA manipulation message. But I find it very weird and difficult to decipher its aim and reasons.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Actually Khalid Mumtaz said a big lie at 0:55 that is essential for the smooth running of his scenario. He claimed that 2 months ago USA signed a defense treaty with Israel, and therefore USA will automatically join any war between Lebanon (HA) and Israel. Nevertheless Reuters published less than a month that USA and Israel were still discussing such treaty source

The message looks CIA manipulation message. But I find it very weird and difficult to decipher its aim and reasons.

Do you really think this ugly rat is CIA material? Of course not. He just wants to spread anxiety and fear like the ugly devil he is. His ugly face looks as if my teta used the dimma2a for kibbeh (they used in the past) to beat his face. Wejjo na7es.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Lesh maz3ooj?

What do you want us to shout?

This slogan is a part of Arab tradition. It is culture. It has nothing to do with making leadership good or bad. You can still have a good leader and chant that slogan for him. That slogan in itself doesnt make a leader good or bad.

But you are limited in your inferiority complex thinking process.
rje3na 3al inferiority complex, ba3d mech mlahaz enno ma hada arilak ye lal inferiority complex gheir enta w ebn 3ammak? ma 3andak ghayra hayde 😂😂
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
1. Change what for example?
PS: I admit I didn't choose well my wordings. I noticed that when I wrote it and thought I changed it. But seems I posted it quickly without changing the wordings

2. Ru2. This is not a way to dialog in intelligent and respectful manner. Specially when you accuse me of arrogance.

3. Show me what rights I am infringing

4. You interpreted my statement 3ala hawak, not as it should be interpreted NORMALLY. And I don't even see how you did interpret my statement.
1- christians are an integral part of lebanon, we live, we work, we pay taxes, we contribute to the economy, like everybody else. We vote and have representatives. Last time I looked, when there was a closed door in front of a sect or more, it was a bloody civil war. If you want to reduce Christians to nothing or zero weight, you cannot ask them to “stay aside” or “not stab”... it would no longer be stabbing, it would be protecting their existence.
2- did I offend you by calling the Shia duo assholes or was it because I called the billionaire boys club assholes? and that after you just said Christians don’t matter...!
3- the right to chose, the right to weigh in on the conversation, the right to build a state free of corruption, the right to seek peace, etc....!
4- pray explain yourself then. I understood you think that non-duo people would sell the country to the USA, or accept humiliating conditions etc... for peace. And only HA won’t. Which i reject . If this is not what you meant, then explain your thoughts please
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
1- christians are an integral part of lebanon, we live, we work, we pay taxes, we contribute to the economy, like everybody else. We vote and have representatives. Last time I looked, when there was a closed door in front of a sect or more, it was a bloody civil war. If you want to reduce Christians to nothing or zero weight, you cannot ask them to “stay aside” or “not stab”... it would no longer be stabbing, it would be protecting their existence.
2- did I offend you by calling the Shia duo assholes or was it because I called the billionaire boys club assholes? and that after you just said Christians don’t matter...!
3- the right to chose, the right to weigh in on the conversation, the right to build a state free of corruption, the right to seek peace, etc....!
4- pray explain yourself then. I understood you think that non-duo people would sell the country to the USA, or accept humiliating conditions etc... for peace. And only HA won’t. Which i reject . If this is not what you meant, then explain your thoughts please
1. Explicitly I asked what can for example GB, Geagea or the Batrak do to change anything to the current dynamic of confrontation between HA and Israel (+the West who are openly after HA head). That was my point.

2. Yes you did insult me. I venerate HA and I consider they represent me. Insult Qabalan and Berri I don't care.

3. That's Lebanon with its grotesque and grossière injustices towards too many people and from all sects, not only Christians as you seem to believe. In addition Lebanon is a lawless state where HA officials are almost the only officials who don't infringe the laws.
PS: IMHO the only solution is to have a non sectarian rule of consistent laws state.

4. We (HA) believe that Israelis can't make peace. But we don't impose our beliefs. Therefore we wish any1 good luck to bring a fair peace with Israel. It seems that from the beginning you misunderstood my meaning and saw arrogance and exclusion of the others. MAy be my English is not good. But my math is quite good. I believe you have too much preconceived judgments that make you often misinterpret my messages
 
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Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
1. Explicitly I asked what can for example GB, Geagea or the Batrak do to change anything to the current dynamic of confrontation between HA and Israel (+the West eventually). That was my point.

2. Yes you did insult me. I venerate HA and I consider they represent me. Insult Qabalan and Berri I don;t care.

3. That's Lebanon with its grotesque and grossière injustices towards too many people and from all sects, not only Christians as you seem to believe. In addition Lebanon is a lawless state where HA officials are almost the only officials who don't infringe the laws.
PS: IMHO the only solution is to have a non sectarian rule of consistent laws system.

4. We (HA) believe that Israelis can't make peace. But we don't impose our beliefs. Therefore we wish any1 good luck to bring a fair peace with Israel. It seems that from the beginning you misunderstood my meaning and saw arrogance and exclusion of the others. MAy be my English is not good. But my math is quite good. I believe you have too much preconceived judgments that make you often misinterpret my messages
1- Well to start with, Christians in general and their leadership, whomever those are, can chose to support HA if they trust you... if you insist on grabbing power via illegal requests like MoF for example, you lose trust and you lose the support. Which then means you either go at it alone - and that is illegal because you are not the government and do not represent the whole country - or you can’t do what you thing is right - which is legal if the government/parliament decide so - but will never happen because you are Disregarding what anyone else says.
2- HA is a political party and an armed resistance militia. They are not above criticism and certainly when they act in blatant disregard to everyone else. They behave like assholes, they will be called out as assholes, sorry
3- no, this is what you and many other political leaders have created by championing lawlessness. HA officials are no angels. All their activities as a resistance in lebanon are not subject to government decison. Halla2 you will tell me governments have condoned it in the Bayern wizari, true, however where is the law that allows them to carry and store weapons? Where is the law that allows them to have a separate coms network? Where is the law that allows them to go to Syria or Yemen? Do they pay taxes on income from Iran? how many HA people get involved in kidnapping, shooting, etc...?
4- You refuse to have a dialog about it internally. I didn’t misunderstand but clearly from discussion with you and the pro HA people on the forum: you don’t want it, youb won’t accept it unless you are making it, you will never give up your weapons, peace or not peace, and you will continue to push for total dominance of the state via illegal tools which I won’t repeat la2anno zhe2et 3id.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
1- Well to start with, Christians in general and their leadership, whomever those are, can chose to support HA if they trust you... if you insist on grabbing power via illegal requests like MoF for example, you lose trust and you lose the support. Which then means you either go at it alone - and that is illegal because you are not the government and do not represent the whole country - or you can’t do what you thing is right - which is legal if the government/parliament decide so - but will never happen because you are Disregarding what anyone else says.
2- HA is a political party and an armed resistance militia. They are not above criticism and certainly when they act in blatant disregard to everyone else. They behave like assholes, they will be called out as assholes, sorry
3- no, this is what you and many other political leaders have created by championing lawlessness. HA officials are no angels. All their activities as a resistance in lebanon are not subject to government decison. Halla2 you will tell me governments have condoned it in the Bayern wizari, true, however where is the law that allows them to carry and store weapons? Where is the law that allows them to have a separate coms network? Where is the law that allows them to go to Syria or Yemen? Do they pay taxes on income from Iran? how many HA people get involved in kidnapping, shooting, etc...?
4- You refuse to have a dialog about it internally. I didn’t misunderstand but clearly from discussion with you and the pro HA people on the forum: you don’t want it, youb won’t accept it unless you are making it, you will never give up your weapons, peace or not peace, and you will continue to push for total dominance of the state via illegal tools which I won’t repeat la2anno zhe2et 3id.

1.a MoF for Shias is of the same level, from constitutional point of view than Head of the LA for Maronite and Governor BDL for Maronite. I already posted here the article of constitution confirming this point. Also the constitution rends unconstitutional and therefore illegal a government excluding HA. While the West with its unlimited arrogance are trying to impose

1.b you didn't reply to my point at all. You are speaking about HA being the one who decides this is another topic we can debate it separately since it is important and sophisticated to explain

2. I believe and apply that there should be no taboo in debates.

3.a Again let's put aside HA decision making. I suggest we have a separate thread for it
3.b It is true that many people in Lebanon don't respect the law. But HA are almost the only officials who don't infringe the laws.
3.c The Lebanese system is so ambiguous and rotten that no one is responsible, no one is accountable and everyone have too much freedom in interpreting the law and the constitution
3.d Taef (you can ask @I told you he won't deny it) and also bayanat wizaria allowed the Resistance and having all needed means (weapons, telecom net, etc)
3.e Where is the law that forbid them go to Syria ? And Yemen in case this is true?
3f. how many HA MEMEBERS get involved in kidnapping, shooting, etc...? Zero

4.a So you admit you didn't misunderstand my meaning but you kept in several replies willingly misinterpreting what I say. It is good to know that you employ such bias to impose your point of view and also to accuse the one with whom you debate whatever you wish. @Resign should be released to know that.
4.b everyone is entitled to believe whatever he wishes. We believe in worshipping peace but also that Israel can't make peace. You believe the opposite and that a fair peace with Israel is reachable. Bring peace and we (HA) should admit we were wrong since we claim worshipping peace.
4.c This position of mine about Lebanon making peace with Israel has never varied since I started posting in internet. If you have a problem with other posters, it is not my concern even if these posters are members of HA or just pro HA
4.d . those are bothered by the presence of the HA/Resistance have to eliminate the conditions that allow HA as Resistance, as per Taef. ie Build a strong state capable to defend the country at least from Israel
4.e We HA are not "worldly" or Tollab Dunia in Arabic. We believe that we are living biblical times that will result either in the Jewish bankers enslaving the Mankind or the Meek shall inherit the Earth as all religions including communism have promised. Of course this shouldn't impede you and me from building a "worldly" fair state
 

Joe Lebanon

New Member
I dont why some of you think if Israehell starts a war today the outcome would be different from the outcome of the 2006, if not worse.

Hezballah is in a position of power. The US and Israehell, if any compromises would be made, would have to handover the heads of it's own puppets and rogues in Lebanon on a platter of gold. That means their job is over and they are useless. That is what reaching comprise, dialogue - whether direct or indirect would mean. The future belongs to the strong and powerful and to the victors.
Haha. Hizballah got pummeled in 2006. A couple more divine victories like that and they will be truly finished
 
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