The General Thread - Discuss Your Random Political and Non-Political Content Here

Steven Gerrard

Member
Orange Room Supporter
That's your (in my opinion, very narrow-minded) opinion. The FPM did plenty and continues to do plenty.

Still, even if you do believe this is the case and the FPM "got no balls", doesn't what you're saying make every person primarily attacking the FPM while sparing people like Berri severely misguided?

you know, indirectly FPM is supporting Berri by their alliance with HA.
 

Dr. Strangelove

Nuclear War Expert
Staff member
HA and Amal are practically one (they are inseparable) so indirectly you cannot go against Berri's wishes.
The FPM can and has went against Berri's interests and intentions. From the "mouweymin" issue to the electricity plan to financial and legislative reforms to the courts to virtually every election. What you're describing, however, is indeed a handicap to FPM's ambitions, as their own ally would rather back its other ally instead of the FPM's plans and projects. This doesn't mean the FPM-HA alliance is giving more legitimacy to Berri.

I say this because I am very, very convinced that Mr. Berri and his enterprise are part of a ruling majority in this country. This majority has existed for decades, hiding itself behind a false March 8-March 14 narrative, and continues to rule the country to this day. Berri doesn't need legitimacy or support from the likes of the FPM. He only needs to stay powerful enough to stop them in their tracks.

Whether or not the FPM's alliance with HA makes it easier for Berri to maintain that or harder for the FPM to fulfill it's reformist ambitions is another point of discussion.
 

Steven Gerrard

Member
Orange Room Supporter
The FPM can and has went against Berri's interests and intentions. From the "mouweymin" issue to the electricity plan to financial and legislative reforms to the courts to virtually every election. What you're describing, however, is indeed a handicap to FPM's ambitions, as their own ally would rather back its other ally instead of the FPM's plans and projects. This doesn't mean the FPM-HA alliance is giving more legitimacy to Berri.

I say this because I am very, very convinced that Mr. Berri and his enterprise are part of a ruling majority in this country. This majority has existed for decades, hiding itself behind a false March 8-March 14 narrative, and continues to rule the country to this day. Berri doesn't need legitimacy or support from the likes of the FPM. He only needs to stay powerful enough to stop them in their tracks.

Whether or not the FPM's alliance with HA makes it easier for Berri to maintain that or harder for the FPM to fulfill it's reformist ambitions is another point of discussion.

But it is, the alliance I mean.

SHN and Aoun have said it so many times how close HA and FPM are and they wouldn't go against each others on many decisions.

At the end of the day FPM have joined forces with other parties in elections in the past like FM and LF, so it's kind of hypocritical from them to blame Berri
 

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
Elie Ferzli is an MP who is obviously pro-Berri. Others might find different (political) reasons to vote for Berri. Politics is not black and white as many people seem to think. The same applies for previous nominations. Different political climates demand different approaches. One must weigh the consequences of any action.

Voting for Berri alone is not evidence of support... Look at how the FPM has clashed with Berri very publicly and very violently on virtually every single issue since the Syrians left
Unbelievable how you don't question one moment your alliances and bloc and strategies. This foolish number non principled game leads you to where we all are now.
And how many réal battles were you able to win agaisnt Berri? How many strategies were revisited? Alliances?
 

Steven Gerrard

Member
Orange Room Supporter
Unbelievable how you don't question one moment your alliances and bloc and strategies. This foolish number non principled game leads you to where we all are now.
And how many réal battles were you able to win agaisnt Berri? How many strategies were revisited? Alliances?

Which ends up with the same excuse

" Ma khalloona neshteghel" , "el 7a2 3a hal flen"

no accountability whatsoever. If any FPM leader just admitted their faults and admitted their mistakes by saying "Well yes we indeed f*cked up here and there" then maybe I will start taking them more seriously.
 

Dr. Strangelove

Nuclear War Expert
Staff member
No offense to both of you, @Steven Gerrard and @HmsBThn, but you're both severely underinformed when it comes to this subject we're discussing.

The FPM has, repeatedly, admitted to to mistakes and miscalculations. Listen to their televised and non-televised statements. Listen to the discussions being made offline, on social media and - recently - on Clubhouse. When something fails, you shift your strategy and you try again. This is precisely what has been going on since the start. As long as the FPM keeps getting the votes, the FPM will keep trying.

The FPM's stances were never "foolish and non-principled". Sure, you might call their continued alliance with HA naïve, but even that is being officially reassessed. Alliances and political partnerships were abandoned when it was clear they were leading nowhere. I honestly don't know what to tell you - la2teen el 2ossa men danaba, as they say.

Finally, and I really do mean that in the nicest way possible, how the FPM support holds its representatives accountable is none of your business. Right now, the FPM is the only major party on the Lebanese political stage actually trying to fix things. You can believe in what they say and do or you can not.... Honestly, I don't care. I'm not trying to convince either of you to support the FPM.

I only care about one thing: when cards are being played and the change that we all want hangs in the balance, support those who want what you want. The forensic audit is the major issue of the day, but this applies to other things as well. The FPM's plans were obstructed - that is your own problem if you refuse to see that... Just be careful not to let it happen again, because the issue today is existential for ALL of us, not just the FPM.
 

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
No offense to both of you, @Steven Gerrard and @HmsBThn, but you're both severely underinformed when it comes to this subject we're discussing.

The FPM has, repeatedly, admitted to to mistakes and miscalculations. Listen to their televised and non-televised statements. Listen to the discussions being made offline, on social media and - recently - on Clubhouse. When something fails, you shift your strategy and you try again. This is precisely what has been going on since the start. As long as the FPM keeps getting the votes, the FPM will keep trying.

The FPM's stances were never "foolish and non-principled". Sure, you might call their continued alliance with HA naïve, but even that is being officially reassessed. Alliances and political partnerships were abandoned when it was clear they were leading nowhere. I honestly don't know what to tell you - la2teen el 2ossa men danaba, as they say.

Finally, and I really do mean that in the nicest way possible, how the FPM support holds its representatives accountable is none of your business. Right now, the FPM is the only major party on the Lebanese political stage actually trying to fix things. You can believe in what they say and do or you can not.... Honestly, I don't care. I'm not trying to convince either of you to support the FPM.

I only care about one thing: when cards are being played and the change that we all want hangs in the balance, support those who want what you want. The forensic audit is the major issue of the day, but this applies to other things as well. The FPM's plans were obstructed - that is your own problem if you refuse to see that... Just be careful not to let it happen again, because the issue today is existential for ALL of us, not just the FPM.

I only agree on the part that the voters gave you the mandate. Which is unfortunate, knowing your strategies have been disastrous for 30 years, wars and promises, and unprincipled actions.
I was once a supporter, and started having doubts eventually, but the day aoun chose Berri over Nahhas was the day I realized the baloney of your substance.
You can't have supporters of berri in your bloc and be so shameless. So ma khallouna neshteghil were partially politicians part of your bloc? And still are? Good luck, keep trying as long as the voters give you the majority.
 

Dr. Strangelove

Nuclear War Expert
Staff member
I only agree on the part that the voters gave you the mandate. Which is unfortunate, knowing your strategies have been disastrous for 30 years, wars and promises, and unprincipled actions.
I was once a supporter, and started having doubts eventually, but the day aoun chose Berri over Nahhas was the day I realized the baloney of your substance.
You can't have supporters of berri in your bloc and be so shameless. So ma khallouna neshteghil were partially politicians part of your bloc? And still are? Good luck, keep trying as long as the voters give you the majority.
This is clearly going nowhere, since you're only interested in repeating surface-level rhetoric and making wild leaps of logic. The irony is that most of this rhetoric originated from the mafia state itself... And you talk about substance. Hah.

I just hope you won't bail on whatever cause you'll support next as soon as the mafia state fights back against its reforms, and parrot "l0l, mA khAL0uNa".
 

Steven Gerrard

Member
Orange Room Supporter
No offense to both of you, @Steven Gerrard and @HmsBThn, but you're both severely underinformed when it comes to this subject we're discussing.

The FPM has, repeatedly, admitted to to mistakes and miscalculations. Listen to their televised and non-televised statements. Listen to the discussions being made offline, on social media and - recently - on Clubhouse. When something fails, you shift your strategy and you try again. This is precisely what has been going on since the start. As long as the FPM keeps getting the votes, the FPM will keep trying.

The FPM's stances were never "foolish and non-principled". Sure, you might call their continued alliance with HA naïve, but even that is being officially reassessed. Alliances and political partnerships were abandoned when it was clear they were leading nowhere. I honestly don't know what to tell you - la2teen el 2ossa men danaba, as they say.

Finally, and I really do mean that in the nicest way possible, how the FPM support holds its representatives accountable is none of your business. Right now, the FPM is the only major party on the Lebanese political stage actually trying to fix things. You can believe in what they say and do or you can not.... Honestly, I don't care. I'm not trying to convince either of you to support the FPM.

I only care about one thing: when cards are being played and the change that we all want hangs in the balance, support those who want what you want. The forensic audit is the major issue of the day, but this applies to other things as well. The FPM's plans were obstructed - that is your own problem if you refuse to see that... Just be careful not to let it happen again, because the issue today is existential for ALL of us, not just the FPM.


This is clearly going nowhere, since you're only interested in repeating surface-level rhetoric and making wild leaps of logic. The irony is that most of this rhetoric originated from the mafia state itself... And you talk about substance. Hah.

I just hope you won't bail on whatever cause you'll support next as soon as the mafia state fights back against its reforms, and parrot "l0l, mA khAL0uNa".

Habibi

This has been going no where from the very beginning.

You won't see the hypocrisy in FPM like we do. At the end of the day your biggest ally and supporter is an organized militia that acts like a state within a state and is waging a war in a neighboring country that we have nothing to do with. It just goes against your own creed but yet your party is ok with it.
 

Dr. Strangelove

Nuclear War Expert
Staff member
All this off-topic talk will either be deleted or moved to the general thread in a few minutes. Just a heads-up.

Oh, and Rafik Hariri is a crook and needs to be judged posthumously if there is to be any justice in this country. I can't believe some people are still defending him.
 

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
This is clearly going nowhere, since you're only interested in repeating surface-level rhetoric and making wild leaps of logic. The irony is that most of this rhetoric originated from the mafia state itself... And you talk about substance. Hah.

I just hope you won't bail on whatever cause you'll support next as soon as the mafia state fights back against its reforms, and parrot "l0l, mA khAL0uNa".

You keep repeating the same thing every couple of posts, that we have no depth knowledge, clearly avoiding to reply to any question and resorting to the shallowest type of personal answers.
First of all, assuming this is true. Which you don't know. Voters are not required to know all the details of your failure. Voters don't give a rat. A vote is given, and results are expected. How you achieve the results is the party's business. 30 years of major failures to deliver, only to hear back the most shallow excuses.

Please don't start crying about the mafia state. I am way ahead of you in resenting the psychopaths.

I asked you 2 simple questions. What kind of principles allow supporters of Berri in your bloc, and lead the party to support Berri over ministers like Nahhas.
 

HalaMadrid

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
Is anyone aware of a good paypal alternative available in Lebanon that would accept money/payments from other countries?
 

Dr. Strangelove

Nuclear War Expert
Staff member
You keep repeating the same thing every couple of posts, that we have no depth knowledge, clearly avoiding to reply to any question and resorting to the shallowest type of personal answers.
First of all, assuming this is true. Which you don't know. Voters are not required to know all the details of your failure. Voters don't give a rat. A vote is given, and results are expected. How you achieve the results is the party's business. 30 years of major failures to deliver, only to hear back the most shallow excuses.

Please don't start crying about the mafia state. I am way ahead of you in resenting the psychopaths.

I asked you 2 simple questions. What kind of principles allow supporters of Berri in your bloc, and lead the party to support Berri over ministers like Nahhas.
"A vote is given, and results are expected"? I disagree with that statement. In a democracy, an individual has a duty to vote but also to stay informed. How can someone make a decision on where to cast support if they are ignorant? It is not "the party's business", especially when we're talking about issues that touch us all, like electricity.

You never asked me* those "simple questions". Till now, I'm not sure what your questions (or your points) are. What kind of principles? The principle that a parliamentary bloc comprising of several MPs from different political backgrounds do not need to converge on every single issue. The Strong Lebanon bloc is a coalition of MPs united by some core values, primarily of which is the support to Aoun's presidency and policies. One (1) MP has strong ties to Berri (Elie Ferzli, as everyone knows). Others, as I've already told you in my earlier post, might or might not name Berri as speaker for different reasons - it doesn't mean they are supporters of his. I fail to see what the issue is here and why this is all so confusing for you.

Is your second question about the Nahhas issue? It's funny how you see details on what happened in different vital files (and why a project failed or didn't fail*) as "shallow excuses" and useless information that voters "don't give a rat" about, but an internal squabble between Nahhas and the FPM is so important to you. Nahhas 7ered w fall after acting rashly and not coordinating with the party on key issues. Berri has nothing to do with it.

*edit
 
Last edited:

HmsBThn

Legendary Member
"A vote is given, and results are expected"? I disagree with that statement. In a democracy, an individual has a duty to vote but also to stay informed. How can someone make a decision on where to cast support if they are ignorant? It is not "the party's business", especially when we're talking about issues that touch us all, like electricity.

You never asked him those "simple questions". Till now, I'm not sure what your questions (or your points) are. What kind of principles? The principle that a parliamentary bloc comprising of several MPs from different political backgrounds do not need to converge on every single issue. The Strong Lebanon bloc is a coalition of MPs united by some core values, primarily of which is the support to Aoun's presidency and policies. One (1) MP has strong ties to Berri (Elie Ferzli, as everyone knows). Others, as I've already told you in my earlier post, might or might not name Berri as speaker for different reasons - it doesn't mean they are supporters of his. I fail to see what the issue is here and why this is all so confusing for you.

Is your second question about the Nahhas issue? It's funny how you see details on what happened in different vital files (and why a project failed or didn't failed) as "shallow excuses" and useless information that voters "don't give a rat" about, but an internal squabble between Nahhas and the FPM is so important to you. Nahhas 7ered w fall after acting rashly and not coordinating with the party on key issues. Berri has nothing to do with it.

The best part was the core values. Impressive. 7ered w fall is equally impressive in depth analysis :)
There is nothing to debate, you will find infinite shameles excuses for any non principled action. 3eshna w shefna.
 
@Imperator Zakkarne feek, when you threatened to boycott the Oroom. :cigar:
You lifted the sanctions ouppps
Why so touchy etc....


Sure sure
Look you destroyed your credibility
If you have accepted the results of the elections which we win
And accepted free elections and debate your forum will have not lost 90 percent of its presence and members
I m here first for my friends or what remained of them then for free debate to build a better society free of HA weapons and corruption
@Patriot
@Zilzel
 
Top