France The gilets jaunes

Isabella

Isabella

The Queen Of "Bazella"
Orange Room Supporter

^ that's a poll according to BFM TV @manifesto
 
  • Advertisement
  • Isabella

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Regular people who go to their office job every day, who run businesses, who raise families, don't have time to read the intricacies of every law in order to vote on them. This is why there are elected officials.

    The only people who will benefit from the suggested system are the radicals and special interest groups who will tun campaigns in their circles of activities to gets laws passed, bypassing the officials elected by the majority.

    The fact that they want to lower the voting threshold to get their laws passed should be a huge red flag.

    What is the point of voting in and winning elections, if others can bypass the winning party and pass laws contrary to their agenda?
    They can also benefit from just putting a referendum to the public as was the case with Brexit despite all information showing it would hurt both the UK and Europe!

    As I said though I'm not sure how I feel about this as I think the public is very easily manipulated and the less voting power they have the better :p
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    They can also benefit from just putting a referendum to the public as was the case with Brexit despite all information showing it would hurt both the UK and Europe!

    As I said though I'm not sure how I feel about this as I think the public is very easily manipulated and the less voting power they have the better :p
    Situations like Brexit and other votes for independence require referendums because they are huge decisions. They also involve elected officials.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    Situations like Brexit and other votes for independence require referendums because they are huge decisions. They also involve elected officials.
    Yes but they are also prone to abuse as was the case with Brexit
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    But if France's analysis of the economy and projections requires a higher influx then be it and if not they should slow it down.
    Immigration should never be just a matter of economy. Demographics and social cohesion should be primordial aspects of the decision making process.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yes but they are also prone to abuse as was the case with Brexit
    People voted for Brexit mostly because of the immigration issue. At some point, people stopped caring about economic issues if it meant being forced to accept the EU's demands on immigration.

    There was no abuse there: no one flooded a website with countless laws, no one bypassed elected officials, and no one lowered the voting threshold.
     
    mrsrx

    mrsrx

    Newish Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Immigration should never be just a matter of economy. Demographics and social cohesion should be primordial aspects of the decision making process.
    if by demographics you mean religions and ethnicity i could not care less about these 2 subjects. As for social cohesion it is in the part of my post that you did not quote
    Realistically it should be sustainable with good integration programs.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    People voted for Brexit mostly because of the immigration issue. At some point, people stopped caring about economic issues if it meant being forced to accept the EU's demands on immigration.

    There was no abuse there: no one flooded a website with countless laws, no one bypassed elected officials, and no one lowered the voting threshold.
    No they just fed the public misinformation and lies, the voting threshold is there as a safety measure specifically so that not any "leftist nutjob" can suggest laws to a vote and would actually need the support of at least 700000
     
    S

    sailormoon

    Well-Known Member
    I have never said if i am for or against immigration. In general i am for controlled migration and humanitarian asylum.
    But if France's analysis of the economy and projections requires a higher influx then be it and if not they should slow it down. The question is not for or against immigration as i am all for it heck i did it once and going to do it again! Realistically it should be sustainable with good integration programs.
    As for the claim that immigrants are using france as a wellfare state i think you would be surprised to see the numbers ...but i would let the insee or other reliable numbers talk. As for the giletsjaunes immigration is not their issue.
    IMO if France and Europe brought masses of immigrants since the last four decades it was to have a cheap labor so the patronnat and the system can make more money (that s why the bulk of the immigrants were workers) and if they were granted citizenship and brought their families (loi du regroupement familial) it s because the authorities were compelled to do it for political reasons but that s another story...
    the integration program failed so far as it seem the authorities are not making an effort to build up a good integration program and on the other side most of the immigrants do not fully integrate as they stick to their religion and customs despite the majority is here since 2 or 3 generations.

    Regarding the gilet jaunes you re right immigration is not on their issue , but the Front National is taking the opportunity and is siding with them , especially that a part of the gilet jaunes are le pen supporters.
    Right wing Nicolas DuPont daignant (an ally of marine Le pen) who is very active in the gilets jaunes is trying to bring immigration on the issue as he claimed that immigration costs 17billions € each year to France , an amount that he considers the French cannot bear to pay anymore.
     
    mrsrx

    mrsrx

    Newish Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    IMO if France and Europe brought masses of immigrants since the last four decades it was to have a cheap labor so the patronnat and the system can make more money (that s why the bulk of the immigrants were workers) and if they were granted citizenship and brought their families (loi du regroupement familial) it s because the authorities were compelled to do it for political reasons but that s another story...
    the integration program failed so far as it seem the authorities are not making an effort to build up a good integration program and on the other side most of the immigrants do not fully integrate as they stick to their religion and customs despite the majority is here since 2 or 3 generations.

    Regarding the gilet jaunes you re right immigration is not on their issue , but the Front National is taking the opportunity and is siding with them , especially that a part of the gilet jaunes are le pen supporters.
    Right wing Nicolas DuPont daignant (an ally of marine Le pen) who is very active in the gilets jaunes is trying to bring immigration on the issue as he claimed that immigration costs 17billions € each year to France , an amount that he considers the French cannot bear to pay anymore.
    We agree on the mismanagement of immigrants ...but i do not think this isnthe right thread to discuss this dupont aignan le pen melenchon...are all doing their best to recoop the popular movement
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    if by demographics you mean religions and ethnicity i could not care less about these 2 subjects.
    What you personally care about does not determine what is important.

    As for social cohesion it is in the part of my post that you did not quote
    You can't guarantee social cohesion. You can only offer immigrants proper services and equal rights. The decision to integrate is theirs; and, if they choose not to integrate, it's too late, because they are already in your country.

    Social cohesion should be taken into consideration before you allow anyone inside your country.
     
    mrsrx

    mrsrx

    Newish Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    What you personally care about does not determine what is important.
    I cannot care less about unimportant things ...if you need the full wording ...anyway lets agree to disagree not in the business of changing your mind and i am sure you will not convince me as well so lets just move on from this point
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    No they just fed the public misinformation and lies, the voting threshold is there as a safety measure specifically so that not any "leftist nutjob" can suggest laws to a vote and would actually need the support of at least 700000
    That's what...like 1% of the population?!!!
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Guys I'm afraid ou're staying off-topic :/
    This thread is about the Gilets Jaunes not the origins of Socialism and Fascism.
    Who do you think is formenting the unrest in France?

    But yeah...let's hide part of the truth under the guise that it's off-topic.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Who do you think is formenting the unrest in France?

    But yeah...let's hide part of the truth under the guise that it's off-topic.

    France is not a socialist country. There are no socialist countries in the developed world.
     
    Isabella

    Isabella

    The Queen Of "Bazella"
    Orange Room Supporter
    That's what...like 1% of the population?!!!
    They're not deciding laws though they're making suggestions that would later be put through to the assemblée nationale where the elected officials will discuss them and amend if necessary, then put the suggestion to a public referendum a year later!

    What I've been trying to say is that it's not totally up to these 700000 people, this threshold is just needed to bypass the first stage to the assemblée nationale and then the public referendum
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    France is not a socialist country. There are no socialist countries in the developed world.
    What does that have to do with the people formenting unrest and the ideology they espouse?
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I cannot care less about unimportant things ...if you need the full wording ...anyway lets agree to disagree not in the business of changing your mind and i am sure you will not convince me as well so lets just move on from this point
    "Unimportant" to you because you are taking advantage of another culture that you have no love or attachment towards.

    You casually mention how you plan to immigrate from one place to the next, according to your whim. You have no concerns about the cultures that take you in and enrich you.

    You are a perfect example why the cultural background of immigrants matters.
     
    mrsrx

    mrsrx

    Newish Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "Unimportant" to you because you are taking advantage of another culture that you have no love or attachment towards.

    You casually mention how you plan to immigrate from one place to the next, according to your whim. You have no concerns about the cultures that take you in and enrich you.

    You are a perfect example why the cultural background of immigrants matters.
    again missing the point i do not care about what the persons ethnicity or religions as i do not see them as a point of diversion between me and anyone! I do not see it more of a difference maker than their favorite colour. Yes i casually mentionned that but i care about france as i care about lebanon now and i am sure that i can care for someplace else as i do not have an innate need to hate. All this hippie shit i just spewed is off topic again ...and again
     
    Top