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The Illegal National Pact, the Taef Accord and the Roadmap towards Uprooting the Confessional System and Implementing a Civil State

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  • Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Je m'appelle Hameed the terrorist
    ana bel 11 eme
    أرهابي لطيف
    لا يؤمن بالكورونا لأنه مش هبيلة وحمار
    أهلين دالاس
    Welcome to the forum. Baddi 3azzik bi your brother/cousin Achmed the dead terrorist
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Je m'appelle Hameed the terrorist
    ana bel 11 eme
    أرهابي لطيف
    لا يؤمن بالكورونا لأنه مش هبيلة وحمار
    أهلين دالاس
    There is not one Lebanese Sunni I've spoken to who doesnt say the coronavirus in Lebanon is a scam and that there are no cases of COVID-19. This even leads them to endanger their lives and not to take preventive measures serious.

    These people are really beyond pitiable. I mean your people, ya Hameed. I am saying this because at a point, when the cases were increasing, some of them I know and spoke to were happy or rejoicing. They wanted something bad to happen. They were glad to smell an impending doom. What sort of brainwashing is this, to the extent that someone would wish for his own people to suffer from a pandemic or die in a very pitiful way? In the same line of thinking, because they do not want to give this government credit for keeping things under control and almost eliminating the virus, they go into denial mode that there was no virus from the beginning when they realise things are really under contol. So all those who came from abroad and tested positive and infected others and there was extensive contact tracing, all do not exist in the empty skulls of sectarian lunatics. We need to have them visit those positive patients in quarantine to prove to them the virus does exist in Lebanon.
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The idea of religion must be only private affair is so wrong on all levels and contribute to irreligious societies.
    you can’t dictate what’s right and what’s wrong. You can say that a modern secular state that treats all its citizens as equal and does not discriminate based on religion but provides the same basic rights to everyone, including freedom of religion (or not), freedom of speech, its does not suit you, or you don’t believe in it. You can’t say it is wrong as you are not the one who can decide what’s right or what’s not.
     
    NAFAR

    NAFAR

    Legendary Member
    Would you say the same about the Christian Democrats in Deutschland? Or what is ok for Christians is not ok for Muslims?
    Dude...i didnt say its not ok....let Turkey enjoy the ekhwen middle age sultanate....why should they be different from the malali regim of Iran or the wahabi regim of KSA.... this proves my argument about the illusion of secularism and civil state in Lebanon.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Fiqh and sharia are mutually exclusive. Fiqh expands and develops sharia over time to include new laws/fatwas. Do you really believe all madahebs will agree on the same sharia?!! nonsense. Sharia is politicized it always had been, why is Saudi and Iran sworn enemies? Because of different ideologies and different interpretations of Islam. Not to mention the fact that "bikafro bi ba3d" at every opportunity. Sufism too, there are theological differences between a sufi and a sunni or a shia. How can you bridge the gap when you cannot agree on set of religious laws that would treat all Muslims the same? let alone other people of different faiths?
    Like I already said there is no issue here of whether all Madhahib would agree on on single law there are so many ways to deal with this with respect to all differences that might exist and which have always existed..

    Saudi and Iran are enemies mainly for sectarian reasons and when Iran used to be allies with USA the Saudi-Iranian relationship were better than ever.. these weak and puppet regimes are not a good example to give nor am I saying that the Sunni and Shia should be forced into same set of rules.

    As for sufi you do realize they are in most cases Sunni?
    We have on one hand the Ash'ari and Maturidi and on another the Athari now in all these three Sunni schools of theologies you will find sufi tariqas/orders...

    What you want to speak about is the Ash'ari-Salafi divide.
    Your issue here though that you want to deal with it like we have reached a dead end and claim a complete understanding to it all and not like it is a ongoing thing that evolves and changes with times..

    So again and again there are obvious differences in understandings but that is the case with any other world view let it be the secularist world view or any other world view!

    Secular laws treat EVERYONE the same regardless of beliefs. Your beliefs are your own and you choose to do whatever you want with it but when it comes to laws and rules equality is what matters. You cannot force a Christian to pay a tax just because you think your religion is superior or you are superior than him/her. You don't have to follow any of those ideologies to build a secular state, what matters is that the set of laws are implemented equally to everyone. This is why Europe and the US are always ahead of Islamic countries in terms of development, innovation and standard of living. Not only that, a lot of people prefer to live in Europe, Canada and the US because of freedom of opportunities and the freedom of expression, something that is lacking in countries ruled by stringent religious laws.

    I gave you the Ottoman Empire example, they did not impose 100% sharia, they actually adopted a lot of previous laws from the Byzantine empire and a mix of secular laws to build an empire. This is because the Ottomans had values and traditions different than peninsular Arabians who were more tribal.
    The Western world were not always ahead of Islamic nations that is another BS statement you are making!
    You can surely claim that today it is ahead but this is due to their current political stability and being a world power..
    When the Muslim world was in that position of power it was ahead of the Western world too in terms of "development, innovation and standard of living". Shariah was never obstacle for any of this for many centuries so why should it be today!!

    And there is not such thing as imposing 100% Shariah what is that even supposed to mean? You are again assuming that we have reached some sort of dead end of understanding Shariah and not something which is dynamic and constantly developing.. why in this case we still have fiqh!

    What would even be the point of fiqh if would could reach the level of imposing 100% shariah!

    And Like I told you earlier there are no issues in adopting laws that do not contradict the Quran and Sunna!
    So you have to be more specific with which Byzantine laws were adopted and how they contradicted the Shariah.


    Our country for example is tied between two sets of religions but those religions are interpreted differently than other countries because of culture, so why don't we start there? why can't we build a secular state based on our own Lebanese history, values, traditions and code/ethics? The same way the Ottomans did minus any sharia so each and every one of us are treated equally under law.
    Could you then tell me how this model would be any different from the Western European model of a typical Secular, liberal, nationalistic state?

    And what if a very good number of people's choice was to adhere to the Shariah? How do we solve this problem then?
    Not everybody is willing to let go of this so easily as you like to think!
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    you can’t dictate what’s right and what’s wrong. You can say that a modern secular state that treats all its citizens as equal and does not discriminate based on religion but provides the same basic rights to everyone, including freedom of religion (or not), freedom of speech, its does not suit you, or you don’t believe in it. You can’t say it is wrong as you are not the one who can decide what’s right or what’s not.
    I'm not dictating what's right or wrong on the contrary the ones who adhere to secularism are, by assuming for themselves what sets the boundaries so basically tomorrow sibling incest might become legal and so we must accept it as social norm where they get married have their own kids etc under the freedom of choice or whatever! The same way LBGTQFSDXASXASXASFS++ is being treated today!

    As for me I want to adhere to the divine laws rather than purely man-made laws!
    As believer I have no problem obviously with this but as unbeliever you might have issues with it!
    Simply a two contradicting world views!

    Also I don't want for my religion to end up like the case we see in Europe with Christianity where churches are empty or being converted to something else! The secularist world view is meant to bring us faithless societies.. which is more like being on suicidal mission!

    Humans can not live without a set of beliefs that govern them.. religion is simply part of the human story that shape the world around us removing that aspect of our reality is always doomed with failure and so the Western world will have no choice but return to religion as this is our nature as humans!
     
    SAVO

    SAVO

    Member
    that can work only if you impose atheism of state structurally (with all what it implicate from civil marriage etc ) and imposing that religion goes only into the private sphere of persons as a spiritual belief.

    while religious institution are absolutely forbidden to be involved in politics and economy . they can stick only to spiritual aspect of religion and people are absolutely free to practice spirituality or to reject it .
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I'm not dictating what's right or wrong on the contrary the ones who adhere to secularism are, by assuming for themselves what sets the boundaries so basically tomorrow sibling incest might become legal and so we must accept it as social norm where they get married have their own kids etc under the freedom of choice or whatever! The same way LBGTQFSDXASXASXASFS++ is being treated today!

    As for me I want to adhere to the divine laws rather than purely man-made laws!
    As believer I have no problem obviously with this but as unbeliever you might have issues with it!
    Simply a two contradicting world views!

    Also I don't want for my religion to end up like the case we see in Europe with Christianity where churches are empty or being converted to something else! The secularist world view is meant to bring us faithless societies.. which is more like being on suicidal mission!

    Humans can not live without a set of beliefs that govern them.. religion is simply part of the human story that shape the world around us removing that aspect of our reality is always doomed with failure and so the Western world will have no choice but return to religion as this is our nature as humans!
    you’re free to do what you want, so are others (love the bigoted reference to LGBTQ and « incest » together). If you have received a direct message from God then good for you. As I said, people have rights and you can’t overrule them just because you believe your God spoke to you. As far as I know, God doesn’t dictate our constitution.
    PS this may come as a shock to you, everything that is transmitted to you was dictated to you by people, not God, unless you heard it directly from him.
    L
     
    الحرس الجمهوري

    الحرس الجمهوري

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    you’re free to do what you want, so are others (love the bigoted reference to LGBTQ and « incest » together). I
    The only reason we view incest as an immoral conduct is because religion says so.
    But other than that, how does it differ from homosexuality? And why does it make him bigoted to lump the two together?
    Incest is actually legal in many European countries.

    If you wanna label something "good" or "bad" based on if it makes you uncomfortable or not, then we can say the same thing about homosexuality.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    you’re free to do what you want, so are others (love the bigoted reference to LGBTQ and « incest » together). If you have received a direct message from God then good for you. As I said, people have rights and you can’t overrule them just because you believe your God spoke to you. As far as I know, God doesn’t dictate our constitution.
    PS this may come as a shock to you, everything that is transmitted to you was dictated to you by people, not God, unless you heard it directly from him.
    L

    Hahaha trap, trap.. so now I'm being bigoted but using your logic you too is being bigoted against incest..

    So again using your logic we both are bigoted.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Seriously whats sets the boundaries here? why do you think one is okay and the other is not!
    How are you measuring this? Isn't it about freedom of choice and two adult consent or whatever!

    You do realize that there are many within the LGBTQdsadadsa++ movement not to say all of them who call for legalizing incest, paedophilia among other freaky and gross things that exist ?

    Go google NAMBLA which stands for North American Man/Boy Love Association
    Or just go read about incest and how some fathers are actually marrying their daughter and even having children!
    Now just imaging the life of this child!!!! brrrr
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Incest is actually legal in many European countries.

    .
    Which ones? By the way, I’m assuming you’re talking about incest between consenting adults. In that case, have you heard of inbreeding ?
     
    Nonan

    Nonan

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Hahaha trap, trap.. so now I'm being bigoted but using your logic you too is being bigoted against incest..

    So again using your logic we both are bigoted.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Seriously whats sets the boundaries here? why do you think one is okay and the other is not!
    How are you measuring this? Isn't it about freedom of choice and two adult consent or whatever!

    You do realize that there are many within the LGBTQdsadadsa++ movement not to say all of them who call for legalizing incest, paedophilia among other freaky and gross things that exist ?

    Go google NAMBLA which stands for North American Man/Boy Love Association
    Or just go read about incest and how some fathers are actually marrying their daughter and even having children!
    Now just imaging the life of this child!!!! brrrr
    I want to signal to the mods your continued bigotry and attempts to equate homosexuality with pedophilia
    Up to them to decide what to do with your post. For me, the answer is easy, welcome to my ignore l:)
     
    الحرس الجمهوري

    الحرس الجمهوري

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Which ones? By the way, I’m assuming you’re talking about incest between consenting adults. In that case, have you heard of inbreeding ?
    Why is a childless incestuous relationship between two consenting adults any more immoral than homosexuality?
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Which ones? By the way, I’m assuming you’re talking about incest between consenting adults. In that case, have you heard of inbreeding ?
    Okay if inbreeding is the issue does two incest brothers makes it okay?
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    I want to signal to the mods your continued bigotry and attempts to equate homosexuality with pedophilia
    Up to them to decide what to do with your post. For me, the answer is easy, welcome to my ignore l:)
    I'm not equating anything but you are simply running away from answering me!
    And this is the first comment where I even mention pedophilia :lol:

    Well go ahead.. just shows you can't deal with legitimate questions all I did was using your logic after all! :)
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    Hahaha trap, trap.. so now I'm being bigoted but using your logic you too is being bigoted against incest..

    So again using your logic we both are bigoted.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Seriously whats sets the boundaries here? why do you think one is okay and the other is not!
    How are you measuring this? Isn't it about freedom of choice and two adult consent or whatever!

    You do realize that there are many within the LGBTQdsadadsa++ movement not to say all of them who call for legalizing incest, paedophilia among other freaky and gross things that exist ?

    Go google NAMBLA which stands for North American Man/Boy Love Association
    Or just go read about incest and how some fathers are actually marrying their daughter and even having children!
    Now just imaging the life of this child!!!! brrrr
    You’re right, they’re both forms of sexual perversion. It’s just that homosexuality has become the norm today, as opposed to decades ago when you barely heard of it.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    You’re right, they’re both forms of sexual perversion. It’s just that homosexuality has become the norm today, as opposed to decades ago when you barely heard of it.
    Yes, so just imagine what is awaiting us in the next few coming decades ..

    This is all part of the so called sexual revolution.. Alfred Kinsey the father of the sexual revolution carried his "studies" by abusing children and came to the conclusion that children were sexual from birth!

    This is the same man the LGBTQ movement takes as greatest role model!
    So in the end this all part of the same play they want us all to fall into in the name of equality, freedom and all these other nice words they use!

    May god protect Lebanon and the people of this region from all this!

    Lebanon should hold to its religious values let it be Christian or Muslim values!
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    Yes, so just imagine what is awaiting us in the next few coming decades ..

    This is all part of the so called sexual revolution.. Alfred Kinsey the father of the sexual revolution carried his "studies" by abusing children and came to the conclusion that children were sexual from birth!

    This is the same man the LGBTQ movement takes as greatest role model!
    So in the end this all part of the same play they want us all to fall into in the name of equality, freedom and all these other nice words they use!

    May god protect Lebanon and the people of this region from all this!

    Lebanon should hold to its religious values let it be Christian or Muslim values!
    It’s already happening in the region, so you’re a bit too late.

    The West has the power to back up their ideals. The Muslims have no such power. Ergo, it’s best that Muslims focus on the real issues first before worrying about things like homosexuality.

    No homosexual is going to take you seriously when your community is known for illiteracy and suicide bombings....
     
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