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The Lebanese Christians Curse: their leaders Mediocrity

Robin Hood

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Its Christians diaspora duty to lobby all over the world to get suppot for a Christian federal state.
Right wing is on the rise in Europe and we might get support in near future.
Also Bkerki and Vatican have a religious duty in front of God to support this state
Or maybe you can get Israeli support (not that I like it).

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Ya khayi....you and I are not ennemies....all what I want is to seperate from you and 2 live in peace.
The one forcing union by force is the agressor and not the one who just want to be left alone

There you have a good point, sounds like a reasonable approach to the issue. Shou @Rafidi, counter this one with a cool argument that does not involve the production of froth and foam over our screens.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Dudes, suppose every sect got its state.
Sunnis will have Hariri,
Druze will have Jombi,
Shias will have SHN
the Christians who are supposed to live in peace, will fight each other like in the 80s, so we will have a za3im in each street
The problem is that this is a deja vu, bassilis will claim that Bassil is the rightful leader, LF will claim that geagea is the one, w yallaaaaaa
At least be democratic in your mentality before asking to partition....
The guy who has a counter example, let him come forward :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
Dudes, suppose every sect got its state.
Sunnis will have Hariri,
Druze will have Jombi,
Shias will have SHN
the Christians who are supposed to live in peace, will fight each other like in the 80s, so we will have a za3im in each street
The problem is that this is a deja vu, bassilis will claim that Bassil is the rightful leader, LF will claim that geagea is the one, w yallaaaaaa
At least be democratic in your mentality before asking to partition....
The guy who has a counter example, let him come forward :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's perfectly fine if they fight each other democratically and not a la 1980s assassination style. The key is in the system in place, it will be a make or break.
 

shadow1

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Beind the descendant of whoever preceded us on this land of what we call our Christian fathers, it is quite importnant to evaluate where we stand today as Christians and realise what is awaiting us.

While it is a fact that we have been always as Christians in compeition for this Land with the many other groups who have settled here, from Druze, Shia and Sunni, and while this competition is today a great severe danger , one can not but recognise the complete lack of competent Christian leaders.

Actually we are witnessing an actual mediocrity of Christian leaders, that may change the complete landscape of Christian presence in Lebanon

Picking the so called actual Christian leaders names that come to mind:
  • Michael Aoun: A power hungry selfish dangerous maniac
  • Samir Geagea: A criminal butcher and ex-convict, head of a clan
  • Sleiman Freiji: A deranged dangerous Mafiosi head of a tribe
In addition the maronite Church is led by a week personally, corrupt and incompetent person

With all the changes happening around us, with Christians presence being extinguished in Irak and Syria in less then a decade, the Christians in Lebanon are facing a very imminent dark future...

Where and how can salvation be...?
I fully agree. Since 1982 it has been one mediocrity after another. The question is can a community under eternal siege and threat produce other than this terrible mediocrity? Theoretically no. And the system(and the whole country) is way too corrupt to allow competent and ethical leaders to be elected. The overwhelming majority of people do expect their leaders to be corrupt.

Insofar as the future is concerned. Pre current crisis there was one situation and currently there is another. The Christian Middle class is virtually wiped out and its only means of survival has to come from foreign sources. That was never the situation at any one time in modern Christian history. Most people will not be able to properly educate their children so there is a fatal blow in itself to their future.

Furthermore, let's face it. The Middle East is eternally damned and doomed. History is never done and dusted. It's well and truly alive in the hearts of its people. Personalities from 1400 years ago stir more raw emotions now inside people to the point where the notion of a future is just fantastical. They live in the past with its anachronistic ideas except they do so with more lethal weapons.

The solution? Realism.
Look where the christians were and where they are now. Sentimentality and tribal notion of heroism should be cast aside when dealing with future and security. The Muslims in Lebanon will never allow federalism or partition and why should they when they can make your life hellish enough so you have no choice but to leave. Aversion to miserable life is not to be underestimated. In fact not many Christians can handle living in harsh conditions particularly when there is no hope in the horizon.

Having said this I think Aoun may eventually become the one Christian figure the Christians will thank the most. His megalomania and incompetence are what the Christians really need to leave the country and never look back. And within a generation most of them will including all those defending him today. And what is so bad about leaving? If you survey all those Christians who left the country, you'd be hard pressed to find the tiniest proportion wanting to go back. That should tell you something.

Ten years ago I wrote a posting here saying if I were a Christian leader the only thing I'd do is negotiate a safe exit for the Christians of Lebanon over a 50 year period. Anyone who thinks the sects can exist peacefully on a permanent basis in Lebanon is simply delusional. You have 1400 years of history to rely upon. And that will never change.

The game is well and truly over.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Dudes, suppose every sect got its state.
Sunnis will have Hariri,
Druze will have Jombi,
Shias will have SHN
the Christians who are supposed to live in peace, will fight each other like in the 80s, so we will have a za3im in each street
The problem is that this is a deja vu, bassilis will claim that Bassil is the rightful leader, LF will claim that geagea is the one, w yallaaaaaa
At least be democratic in your mentality before asking to partition....
The guy who has a counter example, let him come forward :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well per recent universities elections, Bassil would win a bit, geagea would claim he won and make a speech, independents would win big and declare they want to kick Bassil out and get refugees in, they would also change the elections law to allow the other “cantons” to vote in the Christian “canton” :)
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Are you for partition?

That's a three pages essay, here reduced.
In search for a solution to any one persistent problem that stands between me and Happiness, which is the ultimate goal of every minute of my short life, I usually exclude nothing from my agenda.

I'm slowly shifting towards the belief in the idea of incompatibility of our communities. Religious beliefs that are intensely practiced and daily lived by a majority tend to dominate the collective mind of their adherents. This goes for all our communities. Religion is de facto a divisive factor in our ta3ayoush formula. Which leads you to ask: what exactly is the formulated purpose of this ta3ayouh set up anyway, what we call "coexistence of sects" under the rule of One state? If to help achieve my, and everyone else's ultimate purpose in life, which is happiness, then it failed. We're a sad, much depressed, always on the edge of hopelessness and utter despair, country.

I say start looking for something that works better. Even with partition no one is going anywhere, it would be only a different formula of ta3ayoush. Also a divorce of communities makes it easier for a community to vacuum clean its own backyard and better itself. Re-marriage may also become more attractive and healthier when /if the partners have evolved to become equally mature and ready to share the pleasures of reunion.

However, I fear we suck at divorcing one another just as much as we did at marrying. We're screwed keef ma baramta.
 

Totenkopf

New Member
The solution? Realism.
Look where the christians were and where they are now. Sentimentality and tribal notion of heroism should be cast aside when dealing with future and security. The Muslims in Lebanon will never allow federalism or partition and why should they when they can make your life hellish enough so you have no choice but to leave. Aversion to miserable life is not to be underestimated. In fact not many Christians can handle living in harsh conditions particularly when there is no hope in the horizon.

Having said this I think Aoun may eventually become the one Christian figure the Christians will thank the most. His megalomania and incompetence are what the Christians really need to leave the country and never look back. And within a generation most of them will including all those defending him today. And what is so bad about leaving? If you survey all those Christians who left the country, you'd be hard pressed to find the tiniest proportion wanting to go back. That should tell you something.

Ten years ago I wrote a posting here saying if I were a Christian leader the only thing I'd do is negotiate a safe exit for the Christians of Lebanon over a 50 year period. Anyone who thinks the sects can exist peacefully on a permanent basis in Lebanon is simply delusional. You have 1400 years of history to rely upon. And that will never change.

The game is well and truly over.
The game is not over until it is. Our problem is the lack of vision, no one knows what they want. The religious leadership is nowhere near the required level of the challenge we are facing and the political leadership is fragmented into pieces.

Germany and France made up after ww2 and are now best buddies yet you see LFers and Aounists unable to agree on the toppings of a man2oushe.

The muslims are not to blame for the level we have reached, the blame lies squarely on the Christian parties. The other minorities simply giggled and collected the candy from the childish Christians who were and still are bickering...
 

NAFAR

Legendary Member
I fully agree. Since 1982 it has been one mediocrity after another. The question is can a community under eternal siege and threat produce other than this terrible mediocrity? Theoretically no. And the system(and the whole country) is way too corrupt to allow competent and ethical leaders to be elected. The overwhelming majority of people do expect their leaders to be corrupt.

Insofar as the future is concerned. Pre current crisis there was one situation and currently there is another. The Christian Middle class is virtually wiped out and its only means of survival has to come from foreign sources. That was never the situation at any one time in modern Christian history. Most people will not be able to properly educate their children so there is a fatal blow in itself to their future.

Furthermore, let's face it. The Middle East is eternally damned and doomed. History is never done and dusted. It's well and truly alive in the hearts of its people. Personalities from 1400 years ago stir more raw emotions now inside people to the point where the notion of a future is just fantastical. They live in the past with its anachronistic ideas except they do so with more lethal weapons.

The solution? Realism.
Look where the christians were and where they are now. Sentimentality and tribal notion of heroism should be cast aside when dealing with future and security. The Muslims in Lebanon will never allow federalism or partition and why should they when they can make your life hellish enough so you have no choice but to leave. Aversion to miserable life is not to be underestimated. In fact not many Christians can handle living in harsh conditions particularly when there is no hope in the horizon.

Having said this I think Aoun may eventually become the one Christian figure the Christians will thank the most. His megalomania and incompetence are what the Christians really need to leave the country and never look back. And within a generation most of them will including all those defending him today. And what is so bad about leaving? If you survey all those Christians who left the country, you'd be hard pressed to find the tiniest proportion wanting to go back. That should tell you something.

Ten years ago I wrote a posting here saying if I were a Christian leader the only thing I'd do is negotiate a safe exit for the Christians of Lebanon over a 50 year period. Anyone who thinks the sects can exist peacefully on a permanent basis in Lebanon is simply delusional. You have 1400 years of history to rely upon. And that will never change.

The game is well and truly over.
This is why Christians must try to seperate even if this means declare it from one side.....it may succed or fail but we have nothing 2 loose in all cases....if nothing is done and we continue to live in this failed country in its current geographical borders and political central system we are doomed any way
 

SAVO

Active Member
Beind the descendant of whoever preceded us on this land of what we call our Christian fathers, it is quite importnant to evaluate where we stand today as Christians and realise what is awaiting us.

While it is a fact that we have been always as Christians in compeition for this Land with the many other groups who have settled here, from Druze, Shia and Sunni, and while this competition is today a great severe danger , one can not but recognise the complete lack of competent Christian leaders.

Actually we are witnessing an actual mediocrity of Christian leaders, that may change the complete landscape of Christian presence in Lebanon

Picking the so called actual Christian leaders names that come to mind:
  • Michael Aoun: A power hungry selfish dangerous maniac
  • Samir Geagea: A criminal butcher and ex-convict, head of a clan
  • Sleiman Freiji: A deranged dangerous Mafiosi head of a tribe
In addition the maronite Church is led by a week personally, corrupt and incompetent person

With all the changes happening around us, with Christians presence being extinguished in Irak and Syria in less then a decade, the Christians in Lebanon are facing a very imminent dark future...

Where and how can salvation be...?
you only need to lay hopes on Ne3meet allah abu nasr
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
I think decentralization gradually and as much as appropriate, is better and more feasible solution than partition. Anyway, partition can also be called decentralisation if some are hurt when they hear the "partition" word.

For HA, what only counts is to not be stabbed in the back. And it is good that the parts of Lebanon who want 7ayed apply it and stay aside. But for the West and the Jewry, they will maintain pressures on all Lebanese to push them to war against HA.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I think decentralization gradually and as much as appropriate, is better and more feasible solution than partition. Anyway, partition can also be called decentralisation if some are hurt when they hear the "partition" word.

For HA, what only counts is to not be stabbed in the back. And it is good that the parts of Lebanon who want 7ayed apply it and stay aside. But for the West and the Jewry, they will maintain pressures on all Lebanese to push them to war against HA.
Ma fi hiyed - if we are one country we get a say, mish 3ala zaw2oun la HA.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
Ma fi hiyed - if we are one country we get a say, mish 3ala zaw2oun la HA.
Unfortunately your say depends too much on the tellings of Safiha, ya3ne the Jewry. Anyway, the Resistance won't anyone's agreement to defend itself, its vital interests and Lebanon's land, space and resources.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Unfortunately your say depends too much on the tellings of Safiha, ya3ne the Jewry. Anyway, the Resistance won't anyone's agreement to defend itself, its vital interests and Lebanon's land, space and resources.
You are sniffing glue... the resistance is not a resistance if it doesn’t represent all the people. If it’s only for shiites, it’s a Shiite militia. lebanon is not your land alone ans so long as you insist on treating it as your land alone, we will fight you.
min fact, the rest of the lebanese people will not wait for anyone to defend themselives, their vital interest and Lebanon’s land, space and resources from enemies foreign or domestic.
 

agnostic

Legendary Member
the resistance is not a resistance if it doesn’t represent all the people.
False assumption.

in fact, the rest of the lebanese people will not wait for anyone to defend themselives, their vital interest and Lebanon’s land, space and resources from enemies foreign or domestic.
Yes we saw your handling of the attack of Beirut port. It was indeed an attack from the first moment when foreign services brought these thousands of tonnes of Ammonium Nitrate to unload them in Beirut Port.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
False assumption.


Yes we saw your handling of the attack of Beirut port. It was indeed an attack from the first moment when foreign services brought these thousands of tonnes of Ammonium Nitrate to unload them in Beirut Port.
True assertion: I am lebanon as much as you are, I don’t want what you are offering in the way you are offering it.

this is a false assumption if there ever was one. I don’t have any proof this was a terrorist attack, if you have it present it, you and HA. And the way it is being handled is the correct way albeit I have many comments on the execution, and I have yet to see results.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
You are sniffing glue... the resistance is not a resistance if it doesn’t represent all the people. If it’s only for shiites, it’s a Shiite militia. lebanon is not your land alone ans so long as you insist on treating it as your land alone, we will fight you.
min fact, the rest of the lebanese people will not wait for anyone to defend themselives, their vital interest and Lebanon’s land, space and resources from enemies foreign or domestic.

There is danger of an occupation power and what it represents. You dont have the power to defend us or to defend yourself. And you dont want to be part of the resistance that has been successful in defending the country. Do you expect others to put a rope round your neck and drag you and make you part of the resistance? If not, who says even the president of a country, talk less of a movement or ideology must represent everyone?
 
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