The Lebanese Christians Curse: their leaders Mediocrity

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
read my post again. i said i didn't like GMA as much as you did, not i didn't like GMA. there is a difference. you are just motivated by your feelings to the extreme, they get the best of you, and this is what leads to blindly following someone or blindly hating someone.
Probably you didn't read my post very well, I said I accepted his political maneuver since 2005 because I estimated the nature of the battle requires it. (should I post again my disappointment when he allied himself to Michel El Murr and Franjieh???)
But I considered, it was needed for survival.
However aborting FPM democracy isn't something forced on him, it was his choice to ensure his own interest prevail over the common one.
These are not feelings these are facts, the feelings are the way I express myself regarding these facts.
(ektada al tawdi7)

the reality is that there is no such thing as pure good or pure evil in people; and you cannot create a leadership or rally people around a cause everyday. so you preserve what you have, you address its faults and fix them, you do not blast them to pieces.
Did you do that? what was the result ?
I told you the only way to do what you are saying is to have a democratic FPM, but this did not happen and will never happen with Bassil and Aoun.
Furthermore your approach is very dangerous even to yourself, it is even more dangerous if you truly believe in it because it means surrender.
Every a$$hole who controlled the christians made sure to eliminate all types of competitions starting from Bashir Gemayel, Hobeyka, Geagea, etc... accepting that means you will go long years without any alternatives.

In Mein Kempf, Hitler sad, no leader is better than a bad one :p
We have to give him credit for that :D a bad leader will do everything he can to hinder any attempt to replace him by a better one (Trump is a living experience)
You are right, there should be new power, maybe it is brewing in the universities at the time being.
But for Bassil and Aoun I repeat
"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. ... In the name of God, go!"

A final word for Lebanese in general and Christians in particular, don't let a$$h*les screw you, you need to fightback every crook who tries to exploit you and sells you crap. I said it many times, look at the jews, they have built a strong entity even when they are surrounded with danger.
In stupid arabic logic they are in emergency state since their existence but they conserved their democracy so they keep finding the right person to do the job for them.
That's what we should do, oppose small autocrats like Bassil and push for democratic behavior if we want to stand a chance in the future.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
kif baddak tebneh dawleh iza kel tayfeh 3enda ma7miyet ?
enta mabsout bel wade3 halla2 ya ebneh, yelli min aham asbebo hariri & co ?!

You spoke my kind. It is a very sad situation. The judiciary is politicized corrupt and only sought when it is needed on a revenge mission. And in the end, it is crippled by sectarian red lines.

I have repeatedly asked for the judiciary to be an independent institution that functions outside the control of politicians and to be even more independent than the army. The commander of the army's loyalty can be to the president or commander in chief. By a judge or chief judge or attorney general should never have his loyalty to the president. His loyalty is to the law, to the constitution. Not to any person and not to the executive arm of government. The judiciary is an arm of government. It should not be subjugated to the will of the legislative and executive arms. It should be independent and be able to function on it's own and apply legislative orders.

I think first of all, we need an independent "law school" of the State set up by a legislative order, from which lawyers can graduate in a systemic and organized manner. And any lawyer must pass out from that school to practice law in Lebanon. And to be enrolled to study law, the best students in high school who have consistently scored above 90% on average per term in the last three years of school or in the last 9 terms should be given admission. In that way, only the brightest can practice law. Then the lawyers can vote to elect judges into the courts. You can have regional courts and a supreme court whereby each sect is represented by an elected judge or the main 5 or 6 sects are represented each by a judge, voted for by the body of lawyers. These 6 judges would have the final say on judicial matters. And the retirement age for judges should be 60.

Of course there may be similar pattern of arrangement in place. But the system is not free and independent and too many obstacles in limiting the effectiveness of the judiciary.

This would need an entire overhaul of the judiciary. It has to be completely independent and the politicians must have no hand in appointing any judge. Politicians should have no sort of immunity, both when in office and after. Politicians are servants to the people and not overlords and they should be treated as servants and held accountable and be punished when they are found guilty. That is the only way for judges to have the needed authority to exercise their responsibilities and hold everyone responsible and even the politicians and leaders themselves. You cant expect someone appointed by a corrupt politician to act or judge in a fair or acceptable manner. Even when he does, he would be doubted or disobeyed as we are witnessing. And when the judiciary is a joke in any country, the law will never be respected and the state would be either a weak one or a mafia one.

As much as I am opposed to indicting or holding Diab responsible, I feel as someone different from the rest and i believe he is innocent in respect to the port explosion and we will defend him and stand by him as ordianry people of this country, he should have respected the judge's invitation for questioning. He would have set a standard for law and order.

Also, in other countries, judges can actually enforce their judgement/orders and instruct the security agents like the police to execute an order or arrest. The judiciary should have that power to instruct the police to act. The judges do not wait for the ministry of interior or the government to act or enforce an order or judgment. The judiciary is an arm of government. At least it should have authority to instruct the police but not the army (since the president is supreme commander and not the supreme judge).
 

Weezy

Legendary Member
Isn't he the guy who held a wedding for his son (or daughter) that cost over $1M? And you are proud that this corrupt filth is "untouchable"?

In a Sunnite wedding it’s the bride who pays for the wedding not the groom.

Ghada Aoun is selective with her corruption charges and is influenced by politicians.
 

Weezy

Legendary Member
Well an FPMer got owned, so Weezy being robbed is now all worth it.
Yalla warayeh hela hela hela hela ho, sara2oonah bassita el mhemm neko bassilo

Bassil is corrupt and is sanctioned by US courts for corruption yet you still defend him.

I guess you don’t mind yeser2ok also
 

Weezy

Legendary Member
You spoke my kind. It is a very sad situation. The judiciary is politicized corrupt and only sought when it is needed on a revenge mission. And in the end, it is crippled by sectarian red lines.

I have repeatedly asked for the judiciary to be an independent institution that functions outside the control of politicians and to be even more independent than the army. The commander of the army's loyalty can be to the president or commander in chief. By a judge or chief judge or attorney general should never have his loyalty to the president. His loyalty is to the law, to the constitution. Not to any person and not to the executive arm of government. The judiciary is an arm of government. It should not be subjugated to the will of the legislative and executive arms. It should be independent and be able to function on it's own and apply legislative orders.

I think first of all, we need an independent "law school" of the State set up by a legislative order, from which lawyers can graduate in a systemic and organized manner. And any lawyer must pass out from that school to practice law in Lebanon. And to be enrolled to study law, the best students in high school who have consistently scored above 90% on average per term in the last three years of school or in the last 9 terms should be given admission. In that way, only the brightest can practice law. Then the lawyers can vote to elect judges into the courts. You can have regional courts and a supreme court whereby each sect is represented by an elected judge or the main 5 or 6 sects are represented each by a judge, voted for by the body of lawyers. These 6 judges would have the final say on judicial matters. And the retirement age for judges should be 60.

Of course there may be similar pattern of arrangement in place. But the system is not free and independent and too many obstacles in limiting the effectiveness of the judiciary.

This would need an entire overhaul of the judiciary. It has to be completely independent and the politicians must have no hand in appointing any judge. Politicians should have no sort of immunity, both when in office and after. Politicians are servants to the people and not overlords and they should be treated as servants and held accountable and be punished when they are found guilty. That is the only way for judges to have the needed authority to exercise their responsibilities and hold everyone responsible and even the politicians and leaders themselves. You cant expect someone appointed by a corrupt politician to act or judge in a fair or acceptable manner. Even when he does, he would be doubted or disobeyed as we are witnessing. And when the judiciary is a joke in any country, the law will never be respected and the state would be either a weak one or a mafia one.

As much as I am opposed to indicting or holding Diab responsible, I feel as someone different from the rest and i believe he is innocent in respect to the port explosion and we will defend him and stand by him as ordianry people of this country, he should have respected the judge's invitation for questioning. He would have set a standard for law and order.

Also, in other countries, judges can actually enforce their judgement/orders and instruct the security agents like the police to execute an order or arrest. The judiciary should have that power to instruct the police to act. The judges do not wait for the ministry of interior or the government to act or enforce an order or judgment. The judiciary is an arm of government. At least it should have authority to instruct the police but not the army (since the president is supreme commander and not the supreme judge).

i didn’t read all of your post but I have one thing to say to you: The Judiciary did not have the power to instruct the police to capture the killer of Samer Hanna
 

Weezy

Legendary Member
kif baddak tebneh dawleh iza kel tayfeh 3enda ma7miyet ?
enta mabsout bel wade3 halla2 ya ebneh, yelli min aham asbebo hariri & co ?!

We either punish them all or we keep them all. Ghada Aoun’s selective campaign against corruption mabte2ta3 3a hada
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
i didn’t read all of your post but I have one thing to say to you: The Judiciary did not have the power to instruct the police to capture the killer of Samer Hanna

I'm here to play a pissing contest with you.

Let the parliament agree to apply the above and let anyone who is found wanting of the law be arrested. Namely:

1. Institute a National Law School through a legislative order, through which lawyers can become to practice Lebanese law and not through any other school
2. Only qualified students with high grades (>90% average or its equivalent GPA) in the last three years of high school to be admitted to study law, if they wish to.
3. The body of qualified and licensed lawyers (licensed by the law school, not govt) be in charge to elect judges once every 4 years. Meaning judges should never be appointed by politicians.
4. Set retirement age of judges at 60
5. Have the highest or supreme court, which has the final say on all legal matters,led by judges from each sect (18 higher judges, one from each sect), who would elect one presiding judge among them, or from 5 judges from the major sects.
6. Give the judges authority to instruct the police to enforce judgements and arrest anyone guilty.
7. Remove immunity of all politicians, both past and incumbent.

Do these and anyone guilty in the eyes of the law would be punished.

And FYI, Hezbollah handed over the person who shot Hanna. And it was clearly a mistake. You and your likes have a lot to learn from that incident. You also have a lot to learn in not being accomplices of foreign govts to set up mock trials and charades to implicate your fellow Lebanese in crimes in order to stir sectarian strife and tension (like the Hariri tribunal was used, but failed to set the country ablaze). You can see how cowardly your friend, Saad is behaving presently and holding the country to ransom. He is too coward to form a government comprising of all the sects and their legitimate representatives for fear of sanctions. And he is also too coward and greedy to resign and free the country.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
In a Sunnite wedding it’s the bride who pays for the wedding not the groom.

Ghada Aoun is selective with her corruption charges and is influenced by politicians.
Your accusation is unsubstantiated to start with, and even if true, yitfaddal anyone else charge whoever they want if they have proof.
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
Bassil is corrupt and is sanctioned by US courts for corruption yet you still defend him.

I guess you don’t mind yeser2ok also
Ahaaaa that’s exactly the difference between you and I: I don’t defend Bassil, let him see his day in court as soon as possible. You on the other hand, khalleek 3am tekhra bi shentenak nkeyeh bi tizak and enjoy the shit state you and your fellow kheryeneen created.
 

Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Bassil is corrupt and is sanctioned by US courts for corruption yet you still defend him.

I guess you don’t mind yeser2ok also
To be clear no US court sanctioned Bassil. I don’t like the guy and he could very well be corrupt. However, he was sanctioned by the US administration. He was not judged in court (not even sure he could be judged in the US) so no, he was not sanctioned by US courts , this is plainly false.
There isn’t even a lawsuit against him in the US for him to be sanctioned (and usually the term is judged ) in the US
 

Al Muqawama

Legendary Member
The issue with Maronites in general is that they think they are very different and better from even other minorities while in truth they are not much different and have same mentality as the rest!

The issues being expressed here in the thread are the same issues others have in the region!
We as Muslim of this region if not the world are also having leadership issues among others...

The truth is with minorities being strengthened against the majorities in the region after so called World War I is one of our main problem today!
For example the "golden age" of Maronite rule in Lebanon didn't last long exactly because in any region where you don't have at least a satisfied or happy majority then there will hardly be any stability !

The European colonial powers are still meddling and playing around this and every time they do they make it even worse for all of us whether we are minorities or a majority!
 
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