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The left and muslim conspiring to take cortoba historical cathedral from the church

Cortoba Cathedral should

  • Remain a Church

    Votes: 11 73.3%
  • Be also a mosque

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Be under civil control guided by the left

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
where's the evidence ? I expected to see photos. unfortunately Roman and Greek architecture was not christian. Gothic was an inspiration
from Greek and Roman architecture but came much later in Europe's history after the Ummayyad rule by many years

You can google the pictures by yourself. The pictures alone will not explain anything.

And I never claimed that Roman and Greek architecture was Christian. I said that Umayyad architecture was in large parts inpired by European, Levantine, and Mesopotamian designs and elements.

Do you people ever have anything to contribute to conversations other than strawmen?
 

Le منشار

New Member
You can google the pictures by yourself. The pictures alone will not explain anything.

And I never claimed that Roman and Greek architecture was Christian. I said that Umayyad architecture was in large parts inpired by European, Levantine, and Mesopotamian designs and elements.

Do you people ever have anything to contribute to conversations other than strawmen?
Oh really ? and what is the title of your link ("The left and muslim conspiring to take cortoba historical cathedral from the church ")? how can you throw accusations without proof (photos)? "google the pictures by yourself !!" <== why should I ?
The Ummayyad tribe was living in the desert and in tents between sand dunes. before taking power in Damascus. what did you expect?
Also, your previous post has a lot of confusions.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You can google the pictures by yourself. The pictures alone will not explain anything.

And I never claimed that Roman and Greek architecture was Christian. I said that Umayyad architecture was in large parts inspired by European, Levantine, and Mesopotamian designs and elements.

Do you people ever have anything to contribute to conversations other than strawmen?

Most architectural styles are a blend of different architectural styles.

Byzantine architecture itself was heavily influenced by the Middle East. That's why it blends well with Islamic architecture.
So when Arabs/Muslims borrowed from Byzantine architecture they were unknowingly borrowing from themselves.

Islam is not foreign to the Levant. It entered the region only a few centuries after the spread of Christianity.
It's not like the Levant was born Christian, anyway.

I can't think of a single European edifice that surpasses the beauty of Al Hambra.
Most European palaces and churches look like boring baroque wedding cakes which lack the elegance, sophistication, and intricate details of Al Hambra.
 
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Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Most architectural styles are a blend of different architectural styles.

Byzantine architecture itself was heavily influenced by the Middle East. That's why it blends well with Islamic architecture.
So when Arabs/Muslims borrowed from Byzantine architecture they were unknowingly borrowing from themselves.

Islam is not foreign to the Levant. It entered the region only a few centuries after the spread of Christianity.
It's not like the Levant was born Christian, anyway.

I can't think of a single European edifice that surpasses the beauty of Al Hambra.
Most European palaces and churches look like boring baroque wedding cakes which lack the elegance, sophistication, and intricate details of Al Hambra.

Some observations.

Byzantine style was heavily influenced by greek and roman architecture, not the middle east.

Islam entered the Levant nearly a millennia after the greeks and romans had developed their distinct architectural style which was later adopted into the byzantine period.

AlHambra is an architectural marvel of Islamic art. It's one of the most unique structures in Europe and Spain itself due to the mixture of artisans that worked on the site. This is reflective of the andalusian period which was relatively tolerant and pluralistic.

You probably haven't visited Italy, and if you did, perhaps you simply lack an appreciation of art. Its littered with palaces and churches that give intricacy a whole new meaning. The painstaking work performed by the greatest artisans of the time, in my opinion, is unrivaled anywhere at any period. The sheer number of these renaissance structures does not diminish their artistic value, but rather is a testament to the explosion of culture and art that was the hallmark of the renaissance.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Some observations.

Byzantine style was heavily influenced by greek and roman architecture, not the middle east.
Islam entered the Levant nearly a millennia after the greeks and romans had developed their distinct architectural style which was later adopted into the byzantine period.

I didn't say they borrowed from Islam. They were influenced by the Middle East.

Below is an excerpt from the Ancient Encylopedia:
This emphasis on function over form is a particular aspect of Byzantine architecture, which blended influences from the Near East with the rich Roman and Greek architectural heritage.
Byzantine Architecture


AlHambra is an architectural marvel of Islamic art. It's one of the most unique structures in Europe and Spain itself due to the mixture of artisans that worked on the site. This is reflective of the andalusian period which was relatively tolerant and pluralistic.

You probably haven't visited Italy, and if you did, perhaps you simply lack an appreciation of art. Its littered with palaces and churches that give intricacy a whole new meaning. The painstaking work performed by the greatest artisans of the time, in my opinion, is unrivaled anywhere at any period. The sheer number of these renaissance structures does not diminish their artistic value, but rather is a testament to the explosion of culture and art that was the hallmark of the renaissance.

I think you must be referring to the Duomo in Florence.
I've been to many places in Italy and I do appreciate Renaissance art, but I think nothing matches the splendor of AlHambra.
It's subjective of course, but I think Muslims are the greatest architects of all time.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
I didn't say they borrowed from Islam. They were influenced by the Middle East.

Below is an excerpt from the Ancient Encylopedia:
This emphasis on function over form is a particular aspect of Byzantine architecture, which blended influences from the Near East with the rich Roman and Greek architectural heritage.
Byzantine Architecture

My observation was based on your comment that "Byzantine architecture itself was heavily influenced by the Middle East" which is inaccurate. It was in fact heavily influenced by Greek and Roman architectural heritage.

I think you must be referring to the Duomo in Florence.
I've been to many places in Italy and I do appreciate Renaissance art, but I think nothing matches the splendor of AlHambra.
It's subjective of course, but I think Muslims are the greatest architects of all time.

Duomo Firenze is one of many and I think has more to do with the philosophy behind the art of that region and period. Though I have a preference for rare gems, such examples include the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore in Bergamo, or the interior of Cattedrale di San Pietro in Bologna, the exterior of Basilica di San Petronio in Bologna also... There's too many rare gems to name which I know is an oxymoron. Alhambra in Spain is also one of my favorite palaces... But yes, art is quite subjective.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Oh really ? and what is the title of your link ("The left and muslim conspiring to take cortoba historical cathedral from the church ")? how can you throw accusations without proof (photos)? "google the pictures by yourself !!" <== why should I ?
The Ummayyad tribe was living in the desert and in tents between sand dunes. before taking power in Damascus. what did you expect?
Also, your previous post has a lot of confusions.

You obviously did not click on the link.

I did not make up the title. It's the title of the thread. Because it's a link to a post in this thread.

If you're going to argue about what I post without even clicking to see what it is, don't bother. I won't waste my time.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Most architectural styles are a blend of different architectural styles.

Byzantine architecture itself was heavily influenced by the Middle East. That's why it blends well with Islamic architecture.
So when Arabs/Muslims borrowed from Byzantine architecture they were unknowingly borrowing from themselves.

False.

"Byzantine architecture is the architecture of the Byzantine Empire, also known as the Later Roman or Eastern Roman Empire. The Byzantine era is the period after the Fall of the Western Roman Empire. Constantinople became known as the Roman capital in 330 AD. Constantinople is what is now present day Istanbul. Byzantine architecture was mostly influenced by Roman and Greek architecture. It began with Constantine the Great when he rebuilt the city of Byzantium and named it Constantinople and continued with his building of churches and the forum of Constantine, as also the Church of St. George, Sofia in the rebuild city of Serdica, present day Sofia, Bulgaria. This terminology is used by modern historians to designate the medieval Roman Empire as it evolved as a distinct artistic and cultural entity centered on the new capital of Constantinople rather than the city of Rome and environs. The empire endured for more than a millennium. Its architecture dramatically influenced the later medieval architecture throughout Europe and the Near East, and became the primary progenitor of the Renaissance and Ottoman architectural traditions that followed its collapse."

Byzantine architecture - Wikipedia

If you read more of the link, you will also realize that the motivation to build churches is what pushed forward Byzantine architecture.

Islam is not foreign to the Levant. It entered the region only a few centuries after the spread of Christianity.
It's not like the Levant was born Christian, anyway.

Christianity was born in the Levant. Islam was born in the Arabian penninsula. Point à la ligne.

I can't think of a single European edifice that surpasses the beauty of Al Hambra.
Most European palaces and churches look like boring baroque wedding cakes which lack the elegance, sophistication, and intricate details of Al Hambra.

This is a matter of taste and you are free to think so. But, even then, the historical record is clear on the fact that most of the knowledge, inspiration, materials, and workers were not of islamic origin.

The Muslims took what already existed and gave it a little twist, by replacing depictions of people with geographic patterns, since the former are forbidden in islam.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I didn't say they borrowed from Islam. They were influenced by the Middle East.

Below is an excerpt from the Ancient Encylopedia:
This emphasis on function over form is a particular aspect of Byzantine architecture, which blended influences from the Near East with the rich Roman and Greek architectural heritage.
Byzantine Architecture

During the Byzantine era, the Near East was Christian, not Islamic. The main languages were Latin and Greek.

To be influenced by the Middle East, during that period, was to be influenced by the Greek, Roman, and Judeo-Christian cultures.
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
Hagia Sophia is essentially a classical Greek building with Christian tinges. What sets it apart is symmetry and geometry, not exactly things we usually associate with churches, and that's why it's quite special. The church itself heavily borrowed from Greek heritage in its early history then developed more of its own character later.

All cultures borrowed and synthesized from the past. Arabs/Muslims and Byzantines are no different. It's such a stupid argument certainly when made with wikipedia articles that you just landed on and read with a biased and ignorant mind.

What's undeniable, back to the topic, is that Islamic/Arab heritage in Spain is immense. When the reconquista was completed, they still needed all the Muslim artisans they could get their hands on to design the alcazars and churches because at the time Spanish style hadn't really developed, hence the mudejar style was born and spread far and wide in Spain and Latin America. The mudejar itself is an acknowledgement of distinctive Islamic style. You have to be blind or with a mind firmly in the gutter not to see it.
 
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GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Indie

By the way, after Spaniards regained control over the Iberian peninsula, the Arabs, Muladis (Muslims of Spanish descent) and the Jews who stayed in Spain were "forcibly converted to Catholicism"

So much for Christianity being spread peacefully LOL

Moriscos were former Muslims and their descendants who were pressured heavily by the Catholic church and the Spanish Crown under the threat of death to convert to Christianity after Spain outlawed the open practice of Islam by its sizeable Muslim population (termed mudejar) in the early 16th century.

Maranos are the Jews who converted to Christianity to avoid persecution by the Church.
 

JB81

Legendary Member
@Indie

By the way, after Spaniards regained control over the Iberian peninsula, the Arabs, Muladis (Muslims of Spanish descent) and the Jews who stayed in Spain were "forcibly converted to Catholicism"

So much for Christianity being spread peacefully LOL

Moriscos were former Muslims and their descendants who were pressured heavily by the Catholic church and the Spanish Crown under the threat of death to convert to Christianity after Spain outlawed the open practice of Islam by its sizeable Muslim population (termed mudejar) in the early 16th century.

Maranos are the Jews who converted to Christianity to avoid persecution by the Church.

You take an occasion here and there to make it a rule
 

JB81

Legendary Member
Hagia Sophia is essentially a classical Greek building with Christian tinges. What sets it apart is symmetry and geometry, not exactly things we usually associate with churches, and that's why it's quite special. The church itself heavily borrowed from Greek heritage in its early history then developed more of its own character later.

All cultures borrowed and synthesized from the past. Arabs/Muslims and Byzantines are no different. It's such a stupid argument certainly when made with wikipedia articles that you just landed on and read with a biased and ignorant mind.

What's undeniable, back to the topic, is that Islamic/Arab heritage in Spain is immense. When the reconquista was completed, they still needed all the Muslim artisans they could get their hands on to design the alcazars and churches because at the time Spanish style hadn't really developed, hence the mudejar style was born and spread far and wide in Spain and Latin America. The mudejar itself is an acknowledgement of distinctive Islamic style. You have to be blind or with a mind firmly in the gutter not to see it.

We got it. What's Halal for you is not Halal for Christians
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
the immense arab heritage in spain is particularly influenced by the architectural style that originated in Mecca, the birth place of islam and the pulsating heart of the arabian peninsula.



 

Le منشار

New Member
You obviously did not click on the link.

I did not make up the title. It's the title of the thread. Because it's a link to a post in this thread.

If you're going to argue about what I post without even clicking to see what it is, don't bother. I won't waste my time.
Of course I did, that's why I wrote that it has nothing to do with Christianity. why are you even making a religious poll about it.
The architecture of Cortoba has nothing to do with christianity nor the church. you want to claim everything as "belonging to the
church"? shu hal maskhara.

3ayneh, in the beginning, they were all pagans then came Moses, part of them followed, others remained pagans, then came Jesus, part of them followed others remained pagans, then came Mohammad, part of them followed him and others remained, christians, jews or pagans. Yes part of the jews became christians and then part of the christians became Muslims. Does that mean, you should expel these people from their lands because your crusaders friends have a retarded ideology of conquering the world, killing and displacing people as they see fit ?
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
the immense arab heritage in spain is particularly influenced by the architectural style that originated in Mecca, the birth place of islam and the pulsating heart of the arabian peninsula.




Exactly. There's no such thing as 'Islamic' architecture. What people try to portray as Islamic architecture is nothing more than copycats of all the civilizations they occupied.
 
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