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The Levant’s DNA mosaic

Myso

Myso

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What about Shias with blond or dark hair with green/hazel eyes? Lots of shias exhibit this type of feature (my maternal family is that way too).

new study emerged about the Canaanites. It's interesting that these accounts contradict the old testament on the Israelite/Canaanite issue.

DNA from the Bible's Canaanites lives on in modern Arabs and Jews

I will try to post my results soon too.
Blonde hair and green eyes found among Sunnis too (e.g Itani family). It's due to intermix with Palestinians who exhibit those features.
 
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  • Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    Member
    Blonde hair and green eyes found among Sunnis too (e.g Itani family). It's due to intermix with Palestinians who exhibit those features.
    But Palestinians are not found next to any of the Lebanese cluster according the DNA project by Zalloula. Lebanese Sunnis have blue eye features too with dark hair (Daouk, Jaroudi for example, so mostly Beiruti sunnis). some Lebanese shias (especially southerners) are not very tanned, mostly fair skin but dark hair dark eyes. It's very rare to find a Lebanese with a high percentage of Arabian peninsular genes.
     
    Myso

    Myso

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    But Palestinians are not found next to any of the Lebanese cluster according the DNA project by Zalloula. Lebanese Sunnis have blue eye features too with dark hair (Daouk, Jaroudi for example, so mostly Beiruti sunnis). some Lebanese shias (especially southerners) are not very tanned, mostly fair skin but dark hair dark eyes. It's very rare to find a Lebanese with a high percentage of Arabian peninsular genes.
    The Lebanese that were originally proven to be Arabs are very minute. The Qays family in Hasbaya is the only one that has a matching and specific Arabian haplogroup. But it intermixed with non-Arabs in many generations.

    But I'd avoid Zalloula. He didn't actually cluster the Lebanese. He studied J2 hapologroup concentrations and was given a media hype with false claims that he did find the Lebanese to be the same.
    And it's rooted back in Ancient DNA that's diluted in almost everyone (eg Syrians, Turks) . His paper linked below. It clearly doesn't match his media announcements.


    Lebanese Muslims do tend to cluster more towards Syrians and Palestinians than Lebanese Christians and Druze. But they've mixed less with Yemenis / Bedouins than Palestinians and Syrians and so still preserve their Caananite identity to a larger extent.

    The Caananite did have blonde features, dirty blonde hair, red hair and colored eyes. Many theories suggest that.

    But if you study average facial plates and features among Lebanese, you'd notice this theme...



    MARONITES


    Their skin is moderated dark for the region. The cranium is hiperbrachycephalic absolutely very high and in relation to longitude and large. They’ re not broad in forehead and face, but these dimensions are greater than in Samaritans, Bedouins and Turkish. The forehead is narrow if we think of the wide face but the face is tight related to the bi-parietal length. They’re mesoprosopics with a big leptoprosopic inclination. Noses are not very long and with moderate size, mesorhine type. The ears are big. The dominant element is Armeniod, the evidence is the brachycephalic the face’s wide, mesoprosopism and the low frequency of nasal appendix. Second is the Iranoid. Third has somewhat of mixture with Mediterranean, Nordics or Eastern Baltic. It has a extreme relation with druzes, but those’ re more Armeniods hence their big bizigomatic diameter. The Nusayries have more Iranoid elements thus they have longer and narrow heads, tight and short face and mesorrhine nose. Orthodox Greeks are less brachycephalics, the head is lower, the forehead is narrow, the higher and with little wider, that’ s a consequence of the strong presence of Mediterranean element in Orthodox Greeks.


    DRUZES


    The cranium is high and hiperbrachycephalic. In the face they’ re mesoporsopics in the direction of europrosopics. Long noses and not very big, mesorrhines and nearly leptorrhines. With brown eyes ‘re very Armeniods.They have elements of Eastern Baltic and Nordics. Such as the Maronites the main element is Armeniod. The Nusairiyyeh ‘ re different because they’ re more brachycephalics. with narrower foreheads and faces, long face like the nose. Greeks Orthodox, Syrians and Armenians have not relation to the Druzes. The Greeks Orthodox are more Mediterranean than Druzes, while Syrians are more Armeniods


    NUSAIRIYYEH


    The main part has clear eyes. The skin is very light for the region. The Nordic race is very important. The forehead is very high, the nose narrow in the root and wide in the basis and the profile is right convex with the point depressed.


    The cranium is hiperbrachycephalus ultra-armeniod type, is omitted the narrower in the bi-parietal region characteristic of Iranoids. The inter-ocular diameter is close, the facial height is very big, very lepthotrosopic. The nose is long and with moderate size, lepthorrhine Armeniod type in length but not in the width. Frequently they haven’t the depressed manner of the nasal point and convexity. Faces haven’t got the Armeniod size, we could say that Nusairiyyeh are a mixture of races that shaped a different form, consistent.The main component is Armeniod and less than the Iranoid, something of Araboid and Nordic.



    ORTHODOX GREEKS


    Their cranium is high and brachycephalic, but not alike Maronites, Nusairiyyeh and Druzes. The Mediterranean element is evident in the tendency to dolycocephly. The face is narrow and their nose too. The Armeniod element is predominant, that is evident in the big size of the cranium and his height in excess, also the height of the face, the nose’s longitude and wide dimension. Nordics, Eastern Baltic and Iranoids elements are present but in a less measure.


    Muslims are more Mediterranean than Orthodox Greeks, those are more Armeniods and Iranoids. Syrians and Armenians have high forehead and bizigomatic diameter. Thus, Orthodox Greeks have more relation to Syrians than Armenians


    MUSLIMS


    The cranium is mesocephalic and high. Their forehead is narrow like the internal margin of the eyes and inclined as the Armeniod type. The face’ s height is more than in the Bedouins. They’re leptoprosopics and almost mesorrhines. They’re more brachycephalics than the Bedouins and the distance between their eyes is bigger. The vertex position is more posterior and the face is bigger and longer, alike the nose. If they have dark brown eyes, they are more Araboid Mediterranean, while the clearer eyes are more brachycephalic, thus it means, a presence of Nordic and Armeniod. The Armeniod characteristic is evident in the nose, the shape of the head and in the initial part of the face and the Nordic’s dash along the face and the light eyes. In the Muslims the race Araboid-Mediterranean is predominant and in second place the Armenoid comes with a Nordic adulteration. Muslims are more dolycocephalics than the Orthodox Greeks, have a higher head, similar to the bizigamtic diameter, more leptoprosopics and less leptorhines, hence, the Orthodox Greeks are more Armeniods than the Araboids.. Maronites and Syrians, vary from Muslims in the great proportion of Armeniod elements that the first hold.



    Source: Racial anthropology and genetics of the Lebanese by Daniel (Dan’El) Asade Chuckralla.


    I've personally noticed Shiah do have Iranoid and Asian elements. But they're not that well studied.

    There's sources to old travelers pointing out that they looked distinct from the Lebanese Druze and Christians. I think belonging to the Jewish Traveler Benjamin. But I won't be able to find them for you without extensive researching... It's part of old writings I had read before.
     
    Myso

    Myso

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    But Benjamin of Tudela was very delusional. He thought the Druze were Pagans and accused them of Alewite traditions. And rebuked them for war against the Sidonians and not being under a ruler. So take him with a grain of salt.
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    Member
    I wouldn't discount Zalloula, he's co-written a lot of papers with other geneticists including Marc Haber.

    Caananites are Anatolian and Iranian in origin anyways, as per the study I posted above. Hence why some have high concentration of West Asia/Causcasus. If high J2 concentrations were found in all Lebanese then yes Lebanese are very similar, not the same but very similar.

    I agree, not enough studies conducted on Lebanese Shia. I will try to post my own results soon I promise.
     
    Last edited:
    Myso

    Myso

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    I wouldn't discount Zalloula, he's co-written a lot of papers with other geneticists including Marc Haber.

    Caananites are Anatolian and Iranian in origin anyways, as per the study I posted above. Hence why some have high concentration of West Asia/Causcasus. If high J2 concentrations were found in all Lebanese then yes Lebanese are very similar, not the same but very similar.

    I agree, not enough studies conducted on Lebanese Shia. I will try to post my own results soon I promise.
    Can you produce anything Zalloula has done on a Lebanese cluster? Aside from his J2 concentration heatmap which doesn't count.
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    It's already been proved in other studies that Christians for example lack the Arabian input that is mentioned in this study. Druze are really intriguing. Some studies claim they have elevated West Asian input, others that they are identical to Christians. The only consensus is that they, like Christians, also lack Arabian input. What I would like is a study focused on Lebanese Muslims, to find out if there's any significant differences between Sunnis and Shias. Lebanese Christians of different sets, for example, have been proved to be genetically identical.
    It seems you intentionally want to distance Lebanese Christians and Muslims from each other. There are studies that proved there's no significant differences between Lebanese Muslims and Lebanese Christians (and the Druze as well). What was also concluded was that sects formed of differentiated communities long befoe religion. For instance, Shia community in the south and Sunni community in the north split around 1750 years before present, well before the advent of Islam, let alone the formation of sects since 632. All in all, Lebanese people are more similar than different.
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    4- Proto-Druze were mostly ancestors of People X (Armenians, as uncovered by DNA studies), isolated from Islam because of their remote areas and tribes. Who set themselves apart from the Shiah and Muslims by avoiding the cities.
    That's not a proper reading of the admixtures. Armenian ancestry is related to a Caucasus-like input, which is present in the Levant (including Lebanon) since the bronze age and was spread here by different waves, Kura-Araxes people and possibly Hurrians.
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    I think the most convincing timeline is the following...

    1- People X from Anatolia had immigrated in different periods to the Levant.

    2- People X were mostly Armenians who lived in tight-knot communities in Mt Lebanon.

    3- People Y (Bedouins and Meso communities) immigration to Lebanon started to happen in Lebanese cities along the coastal line. And admixture occurred with People X who lived on the coasts (e.g Orthodox Christians). But there was also an influx of Bedouins (mostly Sunnis now) who set up their own communities and tribes and didn't mix.

    4- Proto-Druze were mostly ancestors of People X (Armenians, as uncovered by DNA studies), isolated from Islam because of their remote areas and tribes. Who set themselves apart from the Shiah and Muslims by avoiding the cities.

    5- Druze lost political power in Lebanon, making many Druze families in the Mountain become Christians or Shiah, and carry forth the Druze genes to their clusters, even though they are related by ancestry to People X.

    6- The Shiahs also had more West Asian mix (exhibited in more Asian-like eyes and features in Jabal Aamel). And admixture with Jews (conversion of Jews into Shiah factions).

    So we're left with Druze and Maronites being very close to each other and distinct from other Lebanese. (Round faces, big foreheads, Armenian eyes).

    Orthodox were Coastal and so had more admixture with Bedouins and early Muslims in Lebanon. (Exhibited in their Arabesque facial plate and long faces). But also cluster near the Druze.

    Some Shiah strands are more towards Sunni others are closer to Druze and Christians. But there's clear Iranoid - Alewite influence, deduced from pointier and smaller facial features than avg Lebanese.

    Sunnis, however, are definitely exo-Lebanese, from the outer areas of Lebanon, who are closer to Palestinians and Jordanians than they are to the Lebanese, Jewish and Armenian population.
    Sunnis might have more foreign admix due to their proximity in faith to other Middle Easterners (as you said, Palestinians and Jordanians), and it's better to say "red sea" or "Arabian" admixture instead of Bedouin, for the sake of accuracy. Orthodox Christians have much less of this admixture and are like other Christians closer to the Roman-era inhabitants of Lebanon. Lebanese Muslims on the other hand tend to score little East Asian and Yoruba-like admixture. Crusader admixture is present in both in very low frequencies, but it appears to be higher in Lebanese Muslims, probably because of conversions. I don't know, however, if these admixtures are present in all Lebanese Muslim communities. For instance, the Shias remained endogamous for the most part with other Shias and Turkmen were Sunnis, with the exception of some strands such as Assaf family of Turkmen origins. It would be interesting if they studied about Muslim sects more, and regional differences of these communities as well. The Jewish in Shias does not surprise me since the Jews were historically present in ancestral Shia cities (Tyre & Tripoli). Cohen (and other Jewish) paternal markers were also found in Shia Muslims (and in Sunni Muslims from the north too).
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    we got somehow very similar pattern.. our ancestor belong to the same line..
    how do u explain the armenian and cipriot presence..

    and what is the pattern of druze with jews ?

    natufian were ancient people in the levant ( lebanon and palestine ) that lived before the phoenicians

    Natufian culture - Wikipedia
    I'm curious, what haplogroup did they assign you? I'll be doing 23&me, or ancestry, soon and I might post my results here. Nothing is known of my oldest paternal ancestor, who lived around 400 years ago, my maternal family is allegedly from 12th century northern Syria and I have some ancestors from the Galilee. This will be a fun ride ;)
     
    Steven Gerrard

    Steven Gerrard

    Member
    It seems you intentionally want to distance Lebanese Christians and Muslims from each other. There are studies that proved there's no significant differences between Lebanese Muslims and Lebanese Christians (and the Druze as well). What was also concluded was that sects formed of differentiated communities long befoe religion. For instance, Shia community in the south and Sunni community in the north split around 1750 years before present, well before the advent of Islam, let alone the formation of sects since 632. All in all, Lebanese people are more similar than different.
    He's been trying to do that for a while and proven to be false so many times

    mahek ya @Ice Tea ?? :p
     
    Myso

    Myso

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    That's not a proper reading of the admixtures. Armenian ancestry is related to a Caucasus-like input, which is present in the Levant (including Lebanon) since the bronze age and was spread here by different waves, Kura-Araxes people and possibly Hurrians.
    Ancient Armenian ancestry is atypical in the Druze.

    1592947384195.png
     
    Myso

    Myso

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    The Jewish in Shias does not surprise me since the Jews were historically present in ancestral Shia cities (Tyre & Tripoli). Cohen (and other Jewish) paternal markers were also found in Shia Muslims (and in Sunni Muslims from the north too).
    Yes. I know two Shiahs who get the closest genetic distance to "Syrian Jews".
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    It seems Druze have an elevated ancestry of Caucasus-like admixture. Very interesting. Wonder why that would come to happen.

    As for the Jewish admixture in Shias, it's a known fact that majority of Bekaai Shiites and a lesser part of Southern Shias are descended from people who fled 1305 Mount Lebanon. It's also accepted that one of the places Shias spread to Jabal Amil, is Tyre when it fell to the crusades. Tyre had an established Jewish community from the 10th century, and assuming the Shias fled Tyre at the early 12th century, it's very likely a lot of Jews converted. The second wave of Shias came from fugitives from the Galilee, likely the ones who live on the extremities of the south.

    As for the other Shias, they're a mixture of a minority of native Bekaais who converted, and the component from Mount Lebanon that originated from Fatimid-era Tripoli. Tripoli was known to have been inhabited by the pre-Islamic people who identified as "Byzantines", and it was settled by Jews in 644 by Muawiya as what is called "Amsar", hinting they most likely converted to Islam as a way to avoid slavery, or at least a significant portion of them. Interestingly, not exactly congruent to what I'm saying above, there's also some northern Mesopotamian paternal markers that were found among them (Hamdanid and perhaps Mirdasid loyalists) who fled to the Mountains here. Possible it's older than the Islamic era, but one of the markers super rare in Lebanon, so it's likely newcomers. Even some Persian-related markers. This tells us not all stories of old are flat out lies.
     
    Drama Queen

    Drama Queen

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    It seems Druze have an elevated ancestry of Caucasus-like admixture. Very interesting. Wonder why that would come to happen.

    As for the Jewish admixture in Shias, it's a known fact that majority of Bekaai Shiites and a lesser part of Southern Shias are descended from people who fled 1305 Mount Lebanon. It's also accepted that one of the places Shias spread to Jabal Amil, is Tyre when it fell to the crusades. Tyre had an established Jewish community from the 10th century, and assuming the Shias fled Tyre at the early 12th century, it's very likely a lot of Jews converted. The second wave of Shias came from fugitives from the Galilee, likely the ones who live on the extremities of the south.

    As for the other Shias, they're a mixture of a minority of native Bekaais who converted, and the component from Mount Lebanon that originated from Fatimid-era Tripoli. Tripoli was known to have been inhabited by the pre-Islamic people who identified as "Byzantines", and it was settled by Jews in 644 by Muawiya as what is called "Amsar", hinting they most likely converted to Islam as a way to avoid slavery, or at least a significant portion of them. Interestingly, not exactly congruent to what I'm saying above, there's also some northern Mesopotamian paternal markers that were found among them (Hamdanid and perhaps Mirdasid loyalists) who fled to the Mountains here. Possible it's older than the Islamic era, but one of the markers super rare in Lebanon, so it's likely newcomers. Even some Persian-related markers. This tells us not all stories of old are flat out lies.
    What about Shiite minorities in Jbeil and Keserwan?
     
    Myso

    Myso

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    It seems Druze have an elevated ancestry of Caucasus-like admixture. Very interesting. Wonder why that would come to happen.
    It's mainly because Druze "time-capsuled" their genetics and didn't allow converts.

    , there's also some north Mesopotamian paternal markers that were found among them (Hamdanid and perhaps Mirdasid loyalists) who fled to the Mountains here. This tells us not all of stories of old are flat out lies.
    You can find specific strands of Haplogroup G (Meso) among Polish and British people and see it only among specific Arab tribes and Druze. Go ahead and try to explain this. :)

    1592949899634.png
     
    X

    Xynus87

    New Member
    You can find specific strands of Haplogroup G (Meso) among Polish and British people and see it only among specific Arab tribes and Druze. Go ahead and try to explain this. :)
    This is a large part of the reason why studying population genetics is fascinating. It's true, also. The Druze kept their endogamous traditions and rarely married outside their faith in medieval times, although there was some incorporation here and there, but it was overall very rare.
     
    Myso

    Myso

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    @Xynus87

    This is a large part of the reason why studying population genetics is fascinating. It's true, also. The Druze kept their endogamous traditions and rarely married outside their faith in medieval times, although there was some incorporation here and there, but it was overall very rare.
    Well, based on my family, if a Half-Druzi marries a full Druze, their children are accepted as Druze. So this allows some room for admixture, I guess. But it's rarely done. But we have a Half-white guy (His dad had married an American woman) that did marry a Druze woman. So those kind of windows are open.

    There was also a recorded incident "The Rape of Ibn Barbariyah" were a number of Druze women were raped by Bedouins. It's not clear whether there was any pregnancy though. But it was central to the Druze faith to accept those women back and not look at them any differently (although sadly that's always impossible).
     
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