Jorje
Legendary Member
Hey, I'm not the one who makes DNA arguments. Funny seeing eat your own crap.
Love that PCA. How did you draw the graph? Paint? LOLOLOL. Published in the Journal of Troll Palestinian?
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The Levant’s DNA mosaic
- Thread starter Ice Tea
- Start date
Hey, I'm not the one who makes DNA arguments. Funny seeing eat your own crap.
Love that PCA. How did you draw the graph? Paint? LOLOLOL. Published in the Journal of Troll Palestinian?
True Palestinian
New Member
I asked you to explain, not to hamster your way out of this ya sa7be. What's your explanation for what you're seeing here?
As for how I made the PCA (=Principal Component Analysis, not a "graph"), I simply took the coordinates for each sample here and ran all of it in Past. I could use more complex stuff which isn't open source, but this is open source. Even someone as lazy as you could do that (you'd probably take a few hours though).
I did use paint for the labels & tags instead of adding them automatically... Because I'm pretty sure you're genetically illiterate
Jorje
Legendary Member
I asked you to explain, not to hamster your way out of this ya sa7be. What's your explanation for what you're seeing here?
As for how I made the PCA (=Principal Component Analysis, not a "graph"), I simply took the coordinates for each sample here and ran all of it in Past. I could use more complex stuff which isn't open source, but this is open source. Even someone as lazy as you could do that (you'd probably take a few hours though).
I did use paint for the labels & tags instead of adding them automatically... Because I'm pretty sure you're genetically illiterate
"My explanation"? I defer to experts who publish in well regarded, peer-reviewed journal, from leading academic institutions (including Tel Aviv University, since fala2touna how you are leaders in science!!!11), not a troll making his way to a Lebanese forum because obviously his life is so empty, running PCAs with god knows what kind of data on god knows what kind of software.
I run PCAs all the time, since uhmmm, it's kind of part of my job, lol.
Anyways, lmao, this is too funny. Credit at least for being a vile, but hilarious troll nonetheless. (and for taking time to throw that up on Paint. LOL! You must have very few worries in life).
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True Palestinian
New Member
Since you like peer-reviewed papers, here's a nice one about that Khazar stuff you were busy peddling a few moments ago:
No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews.
Abstract
The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish population derives its ancestry from a combination of sources tracing to both Europe and the Middle East. It has been claimed, however, through a reanalysis of some of our data, that a large part of the ancestry of the Ashkenazi population originates with the Khazars, a Turkic-speaking group that lived to the north of the Caucasus region ~1,000 years ago. Because the Khazar population has left no obvious modern descendants that could enable a clear test for a contribution to Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, the Khazar hypothesis has been difficult to examine using genetics. Furthermore, because only limited genetic data have been available from the Caucasus region, and because these data have been concentrated in populations that are genetically close to populations from the Middle East, the attribution of any signal of Ashkenazi-Caucasus genetic similarity to Khazar ancestry rather than shared ancestral Middle Eastern ancestry has been problematic. Here, through integration of genotypes from newly collected samples with data from several of our past studies, we have assembled the largest data set available to date for assessment of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic origins. This data set contains genome-wide single-nucleotide polymorphisms in 1,774 samples from 106 Jewish and non-Jewish populations that span the possible regions of potential Ashkenazi ancestry: Europe, the Middle East, and the region historically associated with the Khazar Khaganate. The data set includes 261 samples from 15 populations from the Caucasus region and the region directly to its north, samples that have not previously been included alongside Ashkenazi Jewish samples in genomic studies. Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of population-genetic structure, we found that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations and, among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews to populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.
No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
^^Have a good look at the names of all the authors. Each one of these is a superstar in this field.
So what's your excuse already? y3ne, I keep forgetting...
Ice Tea
Active Member
There is your answer:
"For a more scientific take on the Jewish origin debate, recent DNA analysis of Ashkenazic Jews – a Jewish ethnic group – revealed that their maternal line is European. It has also been found that their DNA only has 3% ancient ancestry which links them with the Eastern Mediterranean (also known as the Middle East) – namely Israel, Lebanon, parts of Syria, and western Jordan. This is the part of the world Jewish people are said to have originally come from – according to the Old Testament. But 3% is a minuscule amount, and similar to what modern Europeans as a whole share with Neanderthals. So given that the genetic ancestry link is so low, Ashkenazic Jews’ most recent ancestors must be from elsewhere."
Ashkenazic Jews' mysterious origins unravelled by scientists thanks to ancient DNA
DNA evidence tracks the ancient history of the Jewish people.theconversation.com
Those tools only cite the propaganda they get from Bibi's twitter account.
The non-Levantine origin of AJs is further supported by an ancient DNA analysis of six Natufians and a Levantine Neolithic (Lazaridis et al., 2016), some of the most likely Judaean progenitors (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002; Frendo, 2004). In a principle component analysis (PCA), the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins and marginally overlapped with Arabian Jews, whereas AJs clustered away from Levantine individuals and adjacent to Neolithic Anatolians and Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Europeans. To evaluate these findings, we inferred the ancient ancestries of AJs using the admixture analysis described in Marshall et al. (2016). Briefly, we analyzed 18,757 autosomal SNPs genotyped in 46 Palestinians, 45 Bedouins, 16 Syrians, and eight Lebanese (Li et al., 2008) alongside 467 AJs [367 AJs previously analyzed and 100 individuals with AJ mother) (Das et al., 2016) that overlapped with both the GenoChip (Elhaik et al., 2013) and ancient DNA data (Lazaridis et al., 2016). We then carried out a supervised ADMIXTURE analysis (Alexander and Lange, 2011) using three East European Hunter Gatherers from Russia (EHGs) alongside six Epipaleolithic Levantines, 24 Neolithic Anatolians, and six Neolithic Iranians as reference populations (Table S0). Remarkably, AJs exhibit a dominant Iranian (88%˜88%~) and residual Levantine (3%˜3%~) ancestries, as opposed to Bedouins (14%˜14%~ and 68%˜68%~, respectively) and Palestinians (18%˜18%~ and 58%˜58%~, respectively). Only two AJs exhibit Levantine ancestries typical to Levantine populations (Figure 1B). Repeating the analysis with qpAdm (AdmixTools, version 4.1) (Patterson et al., 2012), we found that AJs admixture could be modeled using either three- (Neolithic Anatolians [46%], Neolithic Iranians [32%], and EHGs [22%]) or two-way (Neolithic Iranians [71%] and EHGs [29%]) migration waves (Supplementary Text). These findings should be reevaluated when Medieval DNA would become available. Overall, the combined results are in a strong agreement with the predictions of the Irano-Turko-Slavic hypothesis (Table 1) and rule out an ancient Levantine origin for AJs, which is predominant among modern-day Levantine populations (e.g., Bedouins and Palestinians). This is not surprising since Jews differed in cultural practices and norms (Sand, 2011) and tended to adopt local customs (Falk, 2006). Very little Palestinian Jewish culture survived outside of Palestine (Sand, 2009). For example, the folklore and folkways of the Jews in northern Europe is distinctly pre-Christian German (Patai, 1983) and Slavic in origin, which disappeared among the latter (Wexler, 1993, 2012).
The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish
Recently, the geographical origins of Ashkenazic Jews (AJs) and their native language Yiddish were investigated by applying the Geographic Population Structure (GPS) to a cohort of exclusively Yiddish-speaking and multilingual AJs. GPS localized most AJs along major ancient trade routes in...www.frontiersin.org
Look who turned out to be "Iranian Majus"
Studies of autosomal DNA, which look at the entire DNA mixture, show that Jewish populations have tended to form relatively closely related groups in independent communities with most in a community sharing significant ancestry. For populations of the Jewish diaspora, the genetic composition of Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and MizrahiJewish populations show significant amounts of shared Middle Eastern ancestry.
According to Behar and colleagues (2010), this is "consistent with a historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelites of the Levant" and "the dispersion of the people of ancient Israel throughout the Old World". Jews living in the North African, Italian, and Iberian regions show variable frequencies of admixture with the historical non-Jewish population along the maternal lines. In the case of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews (in particular Moroccan Jews), who are closely related, the source of non-Jewish admixture is mainly southern European.
Genetic studies on Jews - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
True Palestinian
New Member
That's about as likely as Jews being Khazars tbh.
Jorje
Legendary Member
Since you like peer-reviewed papers, here's a nice one about that Khazar stuff you were busy peddling a few moments ago:
No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews.
Abstract
The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish population derives its ancestry from a combination of sources tracing to both Europe and the Middle East. It has been claimed, however, through a reanalysis of some of our data, that a large part of the ancestry of the Ashkenazi population originates with the Khazars, a Turkic-speaking group that lived to the north of the Caucasus region ~1,000 years ago. Because the Khazar population has left no obvious modern descendants that could enable a clear test for a contribution to Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, the Khazar hypothesis has been difficult to examine using genetics. Furthermore, because only limited genetic data have been available from the Caucasus region, and because these data have been concentrated in populations that are genetically close to populations from the Middle East, the attribution of any signal of Ashkenazi-Caucasus genetic similarity to Khazar ancestry rather than shared ancestral Middle Eastern ancestry has been problematic. Here, through integration of genotypes from newly collected samples with data from several of our past studies, we have assembled the largest data set available to date for assessment of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic origins. This data set contains genome-wide single-nucleotide polymorphisms in 1,774 samples from 106 Jewish and non-Jewish populations that span the possible regions of potential Ashkenazi ancestry: Europe, the Middle East, and the region historically associated with the Khazar Khaganate. The data set includes 261 samples from 15 populations from the Caucasus region and the region directly to its north, samples that have not previously been included alongside Ashkenazi Jewish samples in genomic studies. Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of population-genetic structure, we found that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations and, among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews to populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.
No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...
^^Have a good look at the names of all the authors. Each one of these is a superstar in this field.
So what's your excuse already? y3ne, I keep forgetting...
If you bothered to read the article I posted, you would notice that the above article was quoted to argue that a major contribution to Ashkenazi DNA is Turkish. It does not make the argument that Ashkenazi DNA is Armenian, North Caucasian or whatever.
It makes the argument that it's barely related to actual levantine DNA.
Bottom point, your propaganda trip weslit la niheyita. A77it.
Jorje
Legendary Member
I don't know, man. Those breakdowns have been happening pretty regularly. I have 911 on ready. We love you Muki. #Be_Safe.
Jorje
Legendary Member
Studies of autosomal DNA, which look at the entire DNA mixture, show that Jewish populations have tended to form relatively closely related groups in independent communities with most in a community sharing significant ancestry. For populations of the Jewish diaspora, the genetic composition of Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and MizrahiJewish populations show significant amounts of shared Middle Eastern ancestry.
According to Behar and colleagues (2010), this is "consistent with a historical formulation of the Jewish people as descending from ancient Hebrew and Israelites of the Levant" and "the dispersion of the people of ancient Israel throughout the Old World". Jews living in the North African, Italian, and Iberian regions show variable frequencies of admixture with the historical non-Jewish population along the maternal lines. In the case of Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews (in particular Moroccan Jews), who are closely related, the source of non-Jewish admixture is mainly southern European.
Genetic studies on Jews - Wikipedia
I have this for you:
Reconstructing Druze population history
The Druze are an aggregate of communities in the Levant and Near East living almost exclusively in the mountains of Syria, Lebanon and Israel whose ~1000 year old religion formally opposes mixed marriages and conversions. Despite increasing interest in genetics of the population structure of the...
www.nature.com
A very interesting article, and not written by some troll who edited a Wikipedia page, lol.
Ice Tea
Active Member
I have this for you:
Reconstructing Druze population history
The Druze are an aggregate of communities in the Levant and Near East living almost exclusively in the mountains of Syria, Lebanon and Israel whose ~1000 year old religion formally opposes mixed marriages and conversions. Despite increasing interest in genetics of the population structure of the...
A very interesting article, and not written by some troll who edited a Wikipedia page, lol.
You can't edit Wikipedia without providing a reliable source tho.
Anyway, it's funny how you only select questionable articles that go against scientific consensus only to back your agenda. The Druze are the closest to Levantine Christians. I'm Christian and on some dna calculators I'm even closer to Druze than to other Christians.
Jorje
Legendary Member
Since you like peer-reviewed papers, here's a nice one about that Khazar stuff you were busy peddling a few moments ago:
No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews.
Abstract
The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish population derives its ancestry from a combination of sources tracing to both Europe and the Middle East. It has been claimed, however, through a reanalysis of some of our data, that a large part of the ancestry of the Ashkenazi population originates with the Khazars, a Turkic-speaking group that lived to the north of the Caucasus region ~1,000 years ago. Because the Khazar population has left no obvious modern descendants that could enable a clear test for a contribution to Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry, the Khazar hypothesis has been difficult to examine using genetics. Furthermore, because only limited genetic data have been available from the Caucasus region, and because these data have been concentrated in populations that are genetically close to populations from the Middle East, the attribution of any signal of Ashkenazi-Caucasus genetic similarity to Khazar ancestry rather than shared ancestral Middle Eastern ancestry has been problematic. Here, through integration of genotypes from newly collected samples with data from several of our past studies, we have assembled the largest data set available to date for assessment of Ashkenazi Jewish genetic origins. This data set contains genome-wide single-nucleotide polymorphisms in 1,774 samples from 106 Jewish and non-Jewish populations that span the possible regions of potential Ashkenazi ancestry: Europe, the Middle East, and the region historically associated with the Khazar Khaganate. The data set includes 261 samples from 15 populations from the Caucasus region and the region directly to its north, samples that have not previously been included alongside Ashkenazi Jewish samples in genomic studies. Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of population-genetic structure, we found that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations and, among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews to populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region.
No evidence from genome-wide data of a Khazar origin for the Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed
The origin and history of the Ashkenazi Jewish population have long been of great interest, and advances in high-throughput genetic analysis have recently provided a new approach for investigating these topics. We and others have argued on the basis of genome-wide data that the Ashkenazi Jewish...
^^Have a good look at the names of all the authors. Each one of these is a superstar in this field.
So what's your excuse already? y3ne, I keep forgetting...
BTW, that journal has an impact factor of 0.8..... Now why would "superstars in this field" publish in a crappy journal? Definitely suspicious and means the methodology/science was probably not good.
The article I posted actually included the data of the above article. You can check the figures.
Jorje
Legendary Member
Your fantasies are NOT "scientific consensus", lolol. Girl, post that figure you like so you can get schooled on how to read a graph.
Ice Tea
Active Member
Explain how I'm close to Druze on dna calculators, and @Mysobalanus is close to Christians. None of us are close to Muslims and we're both close to Mizrahi Jews.
Jorje
Legendary Member
This amounts to n=2. Anyone with a bare modicum knowledge of science knows that these are basically anecdotal data and don't factor in how you evaluate hypotheses.
You need to know even a tiny fraction about science before you continue making a fool of yourself. For the purposes of this thread, please keep going.
True Palestinian
New Member
No problem:
If you have more fancy theories you want to test, just say so and I'll add the population. I have most of the world in there, so if tomorrow you decide Jews are Japanese or Papuan, I can test that too
True Palestinian
New Member
Jorje
Legendary Member
No problem:
If you have more fancy theories you want to test, just say so and I'll add the population. I have most of the world in there, so if tomorrow you decide Jews are Japanese or Papuan, I can test that too
Thanks. I'd rather see what scientists with an actual life publish in actual journals.
Palestinian Troll shaklo akal Kam sermeye, the old Jarab way. If you liked the taste, lmk, always ready to deliver more.
More fantasies; watching you get destroyed in a subject you are highly ignorant in is bigly entertaining. It is typical of Arab men to pretend they know something they do not; they find it difficult to say "no." You are a fine example.
True Palestinian
New Member
Thanks. I'd rather see what scientists with an actual life publish in actual journals.
Palestinian Troll shaklo akal Kam sermeye, the old Jarab way. If you liked the taste, lmk, always ready to deliver more.
Ask and I'll provide. Here's a recent study on Crete:
Genetic history of the population of Crete
Abstract
The medieval history of several populations often suffers from scarcity of contemporary records resulting in contradictory and sometimes biased interpretations by historians. This is the situation with the population of the island of Crete, which remained relatively undisturbed until the Middle Ages when multiple wars, invasions, and occupations by foreigners took place. Historians have considered the effects of the occupation of Crete by the Arabs (in the 9th and 10th centuries C.E.) and the Venetians (in the 13th to the 17th centuries C.E.) to the local population. To obtain insights on such effects from a genetic perspective, we studied representative samples from 17 Cretan districts using the Illumina 1 million or 2.5 million arrays and compared the Cretans to the populations of origin of the medieval conquerors and settlers. Highlights of our findings include (1) small genetic contributions from the Arab occupation to the extant Cretan population, (2) low genetic contribution of the Venetians to the extant Cretan population, and (3) evidence of a genetic relationship among the Cretans and Central, Northern, and Eastern Europeans, which could be explained by the settlement in the island of northern origin tribes during the medieval period. Our results show how the interaction between genetics and the historical record can help shed light on the historical record.
Here's what they have to say about Ashkenazi Jews:
In the PCA of Crete vs Europe, the Cretans overlap with three populations: the Peloponneseans, the Sicilians and the Ashkenazi Jews (see Figures 4a, S17, and S18). Southern European and Mediterranean ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews has also been demonstrated before (Atzmon et al., 2010; Behar et al., 2010; Bauchet et al., 2007; Price et al., 2008; Seldin et al., 2006; Tian et al., 2008). Furthermore, we find in both PCA and ADMIXTURE analysis, that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations. One possible explanation is that this relation might reveal a common Mediterranean ancestry that the Cretan and Ashkenazi populations share.
^^In red on this PCA.
In other words, they're as Turkic as Cretans... As well as Sicilians, Ancient Greeks, Philistines and (most importantly) Jewish populations.
Also notice the comparison with Eastern Europeans (second PCA on the top). Guess who this counts for as well
And don't forget to compare what they say to what you see on my PCAs
Still waiting for an explanation.
Thanks. I'd rather see what scientists with an actual life publish in actual journals.
Palestinian Troll shaklo akal Kam sermeye, the old Jarab way. If you liked the taste, lmk, always ready to deliver more.
Put your money where your mouth is. Since you run PCAs all the time, go ahead and do it using the open-source data.
But all you're good at is defaming others... and failing miserably in the process.
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