The scary case of Article 50 of the 2018 budget

Indie

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
not really. it is not an incentive at all. having a residency in Lebanon simply saves people a trip to renewing a visa. foreigners will not be lining up to buy apartments, and the prices of real estate will not rise. this is not offered as an incentive, but rather as a regulatory step.

of course i would rather it gets revoked, but it is not as much of a problem as "some" people are making it sound. you can rest assured that the number of people who will decide to buy property in Lebanon because of the annexed temporary residency would not amount to 10 per year.
Give me one benefit of this law for the average Lebanese. There are NONE.

When their constituants don't have water and electricity, what are MPs doing thinking of ways to make life easier for foreigners? Where are their priorities?

Stop excusing the inexcusable!
 
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  • Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    @The Jade is desperate for propaganda as usual lol

    I dont think having permanent residency in unstable Lebanon will be a game changer for the rich? It seems more like a courtesy gesture
    A courtesy gesture?

    With all due respect my dear...I am speechless.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Give me one benefit of this law for the average Lebanese. There are NONE.

    When their constituants don't have water and electricity, what are MPs doing thinking of ways to make life easier for foreigners? Where are their priorities?

    Stop excusing the inexcusable!
    foreigners were always able to buy apartments in Lebanon, it is not like they were just granted the right to do so. so what warrants such a reaction right now?

    the residency bit? it is useless. but it is also a must.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    foreigners were always able to buy apartments in Lebanon, it is not like they were just granted the right to do so. so what warrants such a reaction right now?
    If you don't see how permanent residency is an incentive to buy property then I don't know what to tell you.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    And, again...

    When their constituants don't have water and electricity, what are MPs doing thinking of ways to make life easier for foreigners? Where are their priorities?
     
    JB81

    JB81

    Legendary Member
    Give me one benefit of this law for the average Lebanese. There are NONE.

    When their constituants don't have water and electricity, what are MPs doing thinking of ways to make life easier for foreigners? Where are their priorities?

    Stop excusing the inexcusable!
    Those who can afford such housing prices, are more likely to be big spenders on cars, shopping, restaurants and so on. It helps stimulating local economy too. But I doubt the number of buyers will be so high for several reasons.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    @Lebnaouneh ask yourself why "we" are being curteous towards people who are driving real estate prices so high that we can no longer afford to live in our own country?

    Follow the money trail. If we are not benefitting from this, who is? And what are their links to politicians?
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    If you don't see how permanent residency is an incentive to buy property then I don't know what to tell you.
    there are laws governing the maximum amount of property foreigners can own in Lebanon, it cannot exceed 10% in Beirut, and 3% elsewhere, and these numbers are almost exhausted at the moment. also the property cannot be passed to their inheritance.

    so as i am telling you, this is a storm in a tea cup, by people who simply like to scream at everything.



    i hope some day it when people, especially the Lebanese, will be eager to live and work in Lebanon, at the moment it is not the case.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Those who can afford such housing prices, are more likely to be big spenders on cars, shopping, restaurants and so on. It helps stimulating local economy too. But I doubt the number of buyers will be so high for several reasons.
    Tourists and expats in banana republics "stimulate the economy" as well. The locals can serve them in the shops and restaurants they can not afford themselves.

    Is that the kind of economy you want or should our government put their thoughts and energy in being "courteous" towards quality job creators, by giving them incentives such as reliable electricity and high-speed internet?
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    there are laws governing the maximum amount of property foreigners can own in Lebanon, it cannot exceed 10% in Beirut, and 3% elsewhere, and these numbers are almost exhausted at the moment. also the property cannot be passed to their inheritance.

    so as i am telling you, this is a storm in a tea cup, by people who simply like to scream at everything.



    i hope some day it when people, especially the Lebanese, will be eager to live and work in Lebanon, at the moment it is not the case.
    And we want those numbers to go down. Not to stay the same, or to go up.

    Unless "we" are getting rich off of selling land to foreigners.

    When Lebanese youth can't get married because they can't afford a house, then even the status quo is unsustainable.

    So, if anything, politicians should be reversing the trend...not thinking of ways to be "courteous!"
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    And we want those numbers to go down. Not to stay the same, or to go up.

    Unless "we" are getting rich off of selling land to foreigners.

    When Lebanese youth can't get married because they can't afford a house, then even the status quo is unsustainable.

    So, if anything, politicians should be reversing the trend...not thinking of ways to be "courteous!"
    it is not a big deal, really. in the region where i live, there are hundreds of empty apartments that are not being sold because people cannot afford them. it is very possible that this situation might lead to a market crash. this is what happens when the economy is not planned and the size and state of the apartment being built exceed by far what the average Lebanese could possibly afford. the new generation of apartments are becoming smaller and more affordable. but the demand is still very low.

    not sure why @Lebnaouneh suggested it is a courtesy. i think it is related to taxes on properties, and as previously mentioned, the quota for foreign ownership of property in Lebanon is almost exhausted. so as pointed out, again, some people are trying to raise storms in tea cups.

    if the law was not passed, those same people would have accused the government of being intolerant of foreigners and not issuing residencies to those who deserve it, and that we should be on par with the rest of the world.

    in reality however, this item in the law, will make no difference whatsoever and has no potential to change anything. it is pretty much meaningless as far as demographics are concerned.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    it is not a big deal, really. in the region where i live, there are hundreds of empty apartments that are not being sold because people cannot afford them. it is very possible that this situation might lead to a market crash. this is what happens when the economy is not planned and the size and state of the apartment being built exceed by far what the average Lebanese could possibly afford. the new generation of apartments are becoming smaller and more affordable. but the demand is still very low.

    not sure why @Lebnaouneh suggested it is a courtesy. i think it is related to taxes on properties, and as previously mentioned, the quota for foreign ownership of property in Lebanon is almost exhausted. so as pointed out, again, some people are trying to raise storms in tea cups.

    if the law was not passed, those same people would have accused the government of being intolerant of foreigners and not issuing residencies to those who deserve it, and that we should be on par with the rest of the world.

    in reality however, this item in the law, will make no difference whatsoever and has no potential to change anything. it is pretty much meaningless as far as demographics are concerned.
    Reading about this made me angry and grumpy after a tiring day. I will think about it more after I eat something.
     
    walidos

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    GivOMG temporary residence is not an issue if it is linked to the ownership and cannot benpassed on. Bringing in an incentive to buy is good => influx of capital if it happens, and also tough => inflation of prices. Some Lebanese people will inevitably gain if they are owners and are selling, non owners and young people will not benefit because the prices will not drop. I am not very keen on this article... I think the real estate bubble in lebanon is already propped up by expat investment, and some level of foreign investment. It is not sustainable.

    While I agree it is not dangerous vis a vis naturalisation, But not so clear on why it was needed at all... does anyone have the official text?
     
    Aoune32!

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    Reading about this made me angry and grumpy after a tiring day. I will think about it more after I eat something.
    The government doesn't know how to stimulate the economy. They are trying everything and ALL will fail. This is a dangerous precedence and the government is to blame. Giving people PR just because they have a property in Lebanon is beyond ridiculous. The whole demographics of the country has changed and will continue to change due to these stupid acts by our politicians who should be in the rubbish bin not in Parliament. We should be getting the Syrians out not keeping them in. Now a syrian masalan from Aleppo who is rich aslan comes to Lebanon buys an apartment for 300K and is granted Lebanese permanent residency. One question is that how does the PR affect work status??? can he/she then work the same as the Lebanese working in Lebanon? Does he have full rights?? Why in the world does a company have to hire a Lebanese person where I can hire a person who has Permanent residency in the country and takes lower wages?

    This article needs to be dropped immediately. These stupid politicians need to stop creating laws that f*** up the Lebanese populace and actually start working for them. Bring electricity, water, health care, jobsssss..

    It is the same problem when the war was finished. Hariri brought companies from all over the world to invest in Lebanon but guess what they didn't pay tax to the government OR one's who would borrow money from the central bank didn't pay interest. ALL of this failed and the economy will remain in tatters. These band-aid solutions don't work.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    there are laws governing the maximum amount of property foreigners can own in Lebanon, it cannot exceed 10% in Beirut, and 3% elsewhere, and these numbers are almost exhausted at the moment. also the property cannot be passed to their inheritance.

    so as i am telling you, this is a storm in a tea cup, by people who simply like to scream at everything.



    i hope some day it when people, especially the Lebanese, will be eager to live and work in Lebanon, at the moment it is not the case.
    And we want those numbers to go down. Not to stay the same, or to go up.

    Unless "we" are getting rich off of selling land to foreigners.

    When Lebanese youth can't get married because they can't afford a house, then even the status quo is unsustainable.

    So, if anything, politicians should be reversing the trend...not thinking of ways to be "courteous!"
    بالارقام، يوضح الدويهي "اننا تخطينا منذ زمن الحد او السقف القانوني. هناك 1313 مرسوما تتعلق بتملك اجانب لأكثر من 58 مليون متر مربع سبق واستُملكت، منها ما نسبته 95 في المئة في جبل لبنان وبيروت".

    اليوم، تضاف الى هذه المشكلة مسألة الشقق السكنية وربطها بالاقامة الدائمة. يعلّق الدويهي: "نحن في الاساس تخطينا الحد القانوني. ان نسبة الـ10 في المئة في بيروت التي يسمح بها القانون وصلت الى حدود الـ22 في المئة، اما نسبة الـ3 في المئة خارج بيروت فهي قاربت الـ6 في المئة، وتحديدا في المتن الجنوبي والمتن الشمالي. ببساطة، تضاعفت الارقام، فعن اي نسب تملّكٍ يتحدثون بعد، وهم تخطّوا الحدود القانونية؟"

     
    R

    Randomiser

    New Member
    What's the problem if it residency without any path to citizenship? They would be either almost yearly tourists, or some lucky guy who found a business in Lebanon. As long it doesn't apply to refugees.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    Seriously?!!! SERIOUSLY?!!!!!!!!!!
    Who are the MPs who voted for this? I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR THEM!
    FPM WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THIS HAPPENED?
    Mario Aoun raised a concern, but he was quickly told to take a seat.
    The rest of the FPM ministers and MPs have voted for it if I'm not mistaken.

    not really. it is not an incentive at all. having a residency in Lebanon simply saves people a trip to renewing a visa. foreigners will not be lining up to buy apartments, and the prices of real estate will not rise. this is not offered as an incentive, but rather as a regulatory step.

    of course i would rather it gets revoked, but it is not as much of a problem as "some" people are making it sound. you can rest assured that the number of people who will decide to buy property in Lebanon because of the annexed temporary residency would not amount to 10 per year.
    There are 2 major issues with this law.
    From one side, such a move is indeed aimed at encouraging real estate investments as you can see from the comments of FPM's economy minister and the prime minister himself.
    The resettlment issue, I will address in a different post.

    رد وزير الاقتصاد رائد خوري معتبرا ان هذا الامر "لا مفاعيل خطرة له، وهو يعزز القطاع العقاري، ولا ضرر منه"، قائلا: "هذه المادة تعطي اموالا للخزينة"

    الرئيس الحريري قال: "نحن مثل كل دول العالم التي تقدم مثل هذه التقديمات"، وقبرص المثال الاقرب

    Responding to critics, Hariri said Article 50 was intended to encourage investment

    there are laws governing the maximum amount of property foreigners can own in Lebanon, it cannot exceed 10% in Beirut, and 3% elsewhere, and these numbers are almost exhausted at the moment. also the property cannot be passed to their inheritance.
    so as i am telling you, this is a storm in a tea cup, by people who simply like to scream at everything.
    i hope some day it when people, especially the Lebanese, will be eager to live and work in Lebanon, at the moment it is not the case.
    Yes, there is a law governing the maximum amount of property foreigners can own in Lebanon.
    But it wouldn't be the first time laws are broken in Lebanon would it?
    THIS law more specifically has already been broken and there doesn't seem to be any interest in applying it.

    Here's from the same article:
    "نحن في الاساس تخطينا الحد القانوني. ان نسبة الـ10 في المئة في بيروت التي يسمح بها القانون وصلت الى حدود الـ22 في المئة، اما نسبة الـ3 في المئة خارج بيروت فهي قاربت الـ6 في المئة، وتحديدا في المتن الجنوبي والمتن الشمالي. ببساطة، تضاعفت الارقام، فعن اي نسب تملّكٍ يتحدثون بعد، وهم تخطّوا الحدود القانونية؟"

    it is not a big deal, really. in the region where i live, there are hundreds of empty apartments that are not being sold because people cannot afford them. it is very possible that this situation might lead to a market crash. this is what happens when the economy is not planned and the size and state of the apartment being built exceed by far what the average Lebanese could possibly afford. the new generation of apartments are becoming smaller and more affordable. but the demand is still very low.

    not sure why @Lebnaouneh suggested it is a courtesy. i think it is related to taxes on properties, and as previously mentioned, the quota for foreign ownership of property in Lebanon is almost exhausted. so as pointed out, again, some people are trying to raise storms in tea cups.
    As mentioned above, the quota has already been exhausted and there is no sign that the government is ready to apply this law.
    If they wanted to, they would've done it a long time ago.
    And they wouldn't have passed this article!
    if the law was not passed, those same people would have accused the government of being intolerant of foreigners and not issuing residencies to those who deserve it, and that we should be on par with the rest of the world.
    in reality however, this item in the law, will make no difference whatsoever and has no potential to change anything. it is pretty much meaningless as far as demographics are concerned.
    Eh la2anno this government is a real people pleaser.
    They passed this law (which no one ever asked them to pass), for PR purposes.....But they let the garbage roam the streets for what purpose again?
    3ala asses you guys are there to take the tough decisions? If you thought that passing this article will be unpopular (although I have no idea where....apart from the gulf states) but good for the country, you would have done it....at least that's you claim to do.
     
    The Jade

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    On the palestinian/syrian danger, while permanent residency will not grant them citizenship NOW, but it paves the way for it.
    Not for today or tomorrow, but a few years down the line.
    A few years back, it was completely unthinkable for palestinians to have certain jobs that would've put many Lebanese out of work. It happened.
    It was unthinkable that Palestinians or Syrians could get citizenship, but it happened under Hrawi and Hariri Sr.
    It was unthinkable to give them permanent residency, and now the door is wide open.

    What's the problem if it residency without any path to citizenship? They would be either almost yearly tourists, or some lucky guy who found a business in Lebanon. As long it doesn't apply to refugees.
    Because it's the beginning of the path, refer to the above.
    Laws and the constitution have been known to be broken in Lebanon....on so many occasions.
    What guarantees do we have that this will stop?
    So if I’m getting this article right: it would take 50 BILLION DOLLARS of investment in Lebanon to only grant permanent RESIDENCY (which they already do) to 10000 palestinian?
    Also, according to liberal media, would you be considered of being racist/fascist/extreme right by trying to scare and warn people of excessive Palestinian rights?
    Actually you're not getting this right, you need a better calculator to start with.
    You used this figure with the assumption that they will buy property ONLY in Beirut.
    But anywhere outside Beirut it's 330K.
    The residency is automatically granted to spouses and children.
    This means that it will take merely 3.3 Billion for 10,000 HEADS OF FAMILIES.
    If we count on average 4 members per family, that's 40,000 palestinians for 3.3 Billion dollars.
    Your 50 Billion $ actually buys the residency for 660,000 people.....basically all palestinians.
    Do you know what 50B $ is for gulf states? Chump change......They blow that much on a birthday party so to speak.....

    Now we all know that foreigners and refugees were granted citizenships en masse in the past, what would stop the government from doing it again?
    And when that door opens, you'll have hundreds of thousands of people eligible for it.

    What will you say then?
    Liberal media made you do it?
    GivOMG temporary residence is not an issue if it is linked to the ownership and cannot benpassed on.Bringing in an incentive to buy is good => influx of capital if it happens, and also tough => inflation of prices. Some Lebanese people will inevitably gain if they are owners and are selling, non owners and young people will not benefit because the prices will not drop. I am not very keen on this article... I think the real estate bubble in lebanon is already propped up by expat investment, and some level of foreign investment. It is not sustainable.
    While I agree it is not dangerous vis a vis naturalisation, But not so clear on why it was needed at all... does anyone have the official text?
    Residency CAN be passed on.
    It's been passed on for years.
    Why change it now if it's not to incite more foreigners to invest?

    The only temporary winners are real estate companies, the average Lebanes who doesn't own real estate to live in or to sell is screwed!
    How will they be able to afford an aparatment if the kard mad3oum is not available anymore but the floodgates are open for gulf countries????
    Reading about this made me angry and grumpy after a tiring day. I will think about it more after I eat something.
    Satiated yet?
     
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