The scary case of Article 50 of the 2018 budget

walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
#81
The guy clearly said as a COUPLE

But i still believe its a bit high of an estimation
You think? In 2005, the entry level job at a multinational was in the range of 1200$ a month, and within a year you get to 1500$ at least... and this is entry level... i expect several corporate jobs should pay close to that. One usually gets married around 28-30 for a guy (if not later) so that’s at least 5-6 years down the road... I find it hard to believe you don’t reach the 2000-2500 mark for one person... and then multiply by two (or assuming the spouse is more junior by 1.8)... I don’t think it’s far fetched
 
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  • Aoune32!

    Active Member
    #82
    Things are relative, I am not familiar with Australia, but average wage is 500$ a month, I would expect average houses to cost 100k maybe? And the basket of goods must alsonnot be very expensive... lebanon is much more expensive
    Australia is one of the most expensive places in the world. House prices on average are 800K and this outside the major city by 1.5 hours.

    I was just saying 4500 US a month in leb is more than 50K a year. In Lebanon i would be surprised if a couple gets that wage. The average wage in Lebanon is like $500
     

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #83
    Australia is one of the most expensive places in the world. House prices on average are 800K and this outside the major city by 1.5 hours.

    I was just saying 4500 US a month in leb is more than 50K a year. In Lebanon i would be surprised if one gets that wage. The average wage in Lebanon is like $500
    Not true... even I. Construction sites Syrian workers would get 4-6$ an hour for the worst possible paying jobs... at 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and 4 weeks, that’s 960$ a month... there are obviously some jobs that pay less but the average is not 500$

    And 4500 a month is for the couple not the individual
     

    Iron Maiden

    Well-Known Member
    #84
    You think? In 2005, the entry level job at a multinational was in the range of 1200$ a month, and within a year you get to 1500$ at least... and this is entry level... i expect several corporate jobs should pay close to that. One usually gets married around 28-30 for a guy (if not later) so that’s at least 5-6 years down the road... I find it hard to believe you don’t reach the 2000-2500 mark for one person... and then multiply by two (or assuming the spouse is more junior by 1.8)... I don’t think it’s far fetched
    Your estimation is logical, but its a very small portion of the available jobs, ie. very skilled.

    I dont really see average couples making anything close to 4500$ per month and affording 300,000$ houses.
     

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    #88
    Are you deaf
    Kanaan said he refused the article
    And show you the document proving it liar
    You mean blind???
    Kanaan said he had reservations.
    Not refused. There's a massive difference.
    How did the C&R block vote? At least the ones who decided to show up for the most important vote of the year?
     
    #89
    Not true... even I. Construction sites Syrian workers would get 4-6$ an hour for the worst possible paying jobs... at 10 hours a day, 6 days a week and 4 weeks, that’s 960$ a month... there are obviously some jobs that pay less but the average is not 500$

    And 4500 a month is for the couple not the individual
    4500 for skilled labor couple both working full time jobs. That itself is a high threshold for owning a house in a country like Lebanon.
    Its not about this clause per se but more what it exposes in terms of mindset, intentions, priorities of the politicians that included it.
     
    #90
    You mean blind???
    Kanaan said he had reservations.
    Not refused. There's a massive difference.
    How did the C&R block vote? At least the ones who decided to show up for the most important vote of the year?
    Anywhere one can see the list of MPs that voted the budget?
    Why only 50 anyway, isn't the budget a big deal ?
     

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    #91
    Anywhere one can see the list of MPs that voted the budget?
    Why only 50 anyway, isn't the budget a big deal ?
    The budget is THE vote of the year.
    It's almost as important as electing a president.

    I really hope we can get the list of MPs who were there and how they voted.
    Frankly I see no reason for any MP to be absent, unless they're stuck to a hospital bed.

    Then people wonder why we don't trust those MPs...
     

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #92
    it seems kataeb and co have dumbed some posters here. or they were dumb to begin with
    al mouhem dumb

    بعد أن تكشفت قصة راجح مع التوطين والتجنيس والاقامة الدائمة لجأ البعض الى التلويح ببعض الاوراق التي وصلته كالعادة ناقصة فلجنة المال تحفظت بشخص رئيسها على المادة وتركت أمر البت بها للهيئة العامة وقد صدرت بالنص المرفق وليس كما زعموا وليسألوا امانة السر وممثليهم في اللجنة. #حقق_بعد



    DaprEvjXUAAvZwN.jpg
     

    LVV

    Well-Known Member
    #93
    You mean blind???
    Kanaan said he had reservations.
    Not refused. There's a massive difference.
    How did the C&R block vote? At least the ones who decided to show up for the most important vote of the year?
    Deaf to reason liar
    Kanaan suspended the law in his Comity but the majority restored it ( LF Amal Jumblat Harriri) during the Parliament General Session Meeting
    FPM voted for the budget but against the article
    Today they will try to change it
     

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #94
    Irrespective of the position of FPM on this clause, why is it dangerous if it is not passed down? Now the question is can it be passed down... I.e can a foreigner pass on the ownership of a house to his children and hence they benefit from the residence permit?
     
    #95
    Irrespective of the position of FPM on this clause, why is it dangerous if it is not passed down? Now the question is can it be passed down... I.e can a foreigner pass on the ownership of a house to his children and hence they benefit from the residence permit?
    Playing dumb? Its not about demographics. When Lebanese are having trouble affording housing we want to discourage foreign ownership of Lebanese real estate. It is not hard to understand. We don't want this kind of foreign money influx into the Lebanese real estate market.
     

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #96
    Playing dumb? Its not about demographics. When Lebanese are having trouble affording housing we want to discourage foreign ownership of Lebanese real estate. It is not hard to understand. We don't want this kind of foreign money influx into the Lebanese real estate market.
    Listen, I don’t know who you are used to discussing with, but starting your sentence with “playing dumb” is not going to cut it with me.
    As for the issue at hand, there are 2: 1- economic as in can create inflation of prices, I already called this out, however the law also caps foreign investment and we are beyond that cap so really no foreigner should be able to buy anything. In all cases, this is not a do or die thing, economic visions are always different and in each country the ruling groups pass their Visions...
    2- a demographic one which IS dangerous because allowing foreigners to get residency as long as they own real estate means potentially for ever, to their entire descendants- this is the dangerous aspect of the law

    Now either discuss like a human being or don’t bother answering
     

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    #97
    DaprEvjXUAAvZwN.jpg

    Irrespective of the position of FPM on this clause, why is it dangerous if it is not passed down? Now the question is can it be passed down... I.e can a foreigner pass on the ownership of a house to his children and hence they benefit from the residence permit?
    If we're talking only from a demographic's perspective, there is a danger whether it's passed on or not.
    And as you see from the text of the law above, it can be passed to children and spouses.

    I assume we're talking here about the disastrous economical aspect where this would push prices of the whole market up, thus making it unattainable for the average Lebanese.....please don't forget, that we don't have access to supported loans and iskan....because the state is broke.
     

    The Jade

    Legendary Member
    #98
    Listen, I don’t know who you are used to discussing with, but starting your sentence with “playing dumb” is not going to cut it with me.
    As for the issue at hand, there are 2: 1- economic as in can create inflation of prices, I already called this out, however the law also caps foreign investment and we are beyond that cap so really no foreigner should be able to buy anything. In all cases, this is not a do or die thing, economic visions are always different and in each country the ruling groups pass their Visions...
    2- a demographic one which IS dangerous because allowing foreigners to get residency as long as they own real estate means potentially for ever, to their entire descendants- this is the dangerous aspect of the law
    Now either discuss like a human being or don’t bother answering
    The key word here is "should".
    I think that you and I agree that this government has shown a propensity to breaking laws without a single care in the world.
    In your very sentence you mention how we are beyond that cap, which means the IS already broken.....why would the government stop now???

    How did we even to the point of this very important law to be broken?
    Doesn't that scare you?
     

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #99
    DaprEvjXUAAvZwN.jpg


    If we're talking only from a demographic's perspective, there is a danger whether it's passed on or not.
    And as you see from the text of the law above, it can be passed to children and spouses.

    I assume we're talking here about the disastrous economical aspect where this would push prices of the whole market up, thus making it unattainable for the average Lebanese.....please don't forget, that we don't have access to supported loans and iskan....because the state is broke.
    I shared my thoughts on the economical value, and potential inflation, we agree on this point. On the demographics, residency is not naturalisation: a resident can’t vote, but can get in and out of the country, like in an extended visa. Even if your family is entitled to it, that’s normal. What is abnormal is that in our situation, we don’t want Palestinians and syrians to take permanent residency and pass it on to their children... for ever and ever, because we are a tiny nation and will easily be overrun (culturally)... anyhow as you said in the other post, the other law on foreigners is being broken so I am much more inclined to be super strict in this subject. I am against this clause.
     

    walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The key word here is "should".
    I think that you and I agree that this government has shown a propensity to breaking laws without a single care in the world.
    In your very sentence you mention how we are beyond that cap, which means the IS already broken.....why would the government stop now???

    How did we even to the point of this very important law to be broken?
    Doesn't that scare you?
    It does scare me, as much as bleeding 2 billion a year for electricity subsidies scares me :)