The Syrian conflict: Is it Domestic or International? Genuine Political Discussions Only…

J. Abizeid

Well-Known Member
#1
The Syrian conflict: Is it Domestic or International?

Hillary Clinton said today: Russia & China will 'pay price' for supporting the Syrian government.
Syria crisis: Clinton lambasts China and Russia as Annan urges unity | World news | The Guardian

Does that sound like a domestic or an international conflict in Syria?

Does it mean Russia and China have personal vendettas against the Syrian citizens and Hillary Clinton is a companionate person; her vocation is the well being of the Syrian people because in her opinion they desperately need and deserve democracy more than the Bahraini people do?

What would be the answer if we were to go back a couple years in time and asked the Syrian people if they’re better off today than back then or, if they can start all over again, would they chose the same path?

What about personal liberties for all groups and minorities in Syria? Were they ever any worse than the ones in the Gulf counties who are financing the conflict in Syria and playing cheerleaders to the West and Israel?

Does anyone believe the Syrian people will be better off when the dust settles based on the results we’ve seen so far in other Arab countries following the demise of their old regimes like Iraq, Libya and Egypt?


How about if we accept the fact that the conflict in Syria is an international struggle between superpowers? In other words, slogans like democracy and human rights are nothing but pretexts to justify foreign involvements for international goals.
Democracy must be chosen by the people. It can never be imposed from the outside and the outsiders who pretend they’re there to help know real well why they’re there for. Unfortunately, many of those people who are concerned don’t know it…

Let’s use this thread for mature political discussions involving the unrest in the Middle East in general, Syria in particular and the spillover onto Lebanon.

(For all other purposes and to the bean counters and bookkeepers who enjoy recording the number of daily deaths and displaying graphic images, please chose another thread.)

[vbtube]GlcJjMEiHiI[/vbtube]
Moscow and Beijing will be punished for supporting the regime of President Bashar Assad in Syria, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton harshly stated at the "Friends of Syria" meeting of over 100 Western and Arab nations in Paris on Friday.



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Syria crisis: Hillary Clinton is welcomed by the French president, François Hollande, before a meeting at the ةlysée Palace in Paris.
 
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  • J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #2
    Iraq's Foreign Minister is blaming al-Qaeda members for orchestrating the uprising against Syria's president. In a news briefing, he said militants from the terror network were flowing into Syria. Violence there is worsening, with over a hundred people killed in the last three days. Reports say fighting's intensifying in Homs, where troops are clashing with rebels. Paul Sheldon Foote, a Middle East expert from California State University, says he doesn't believe the coalition government is possible in Syria.

    [vbtube]erIUpOXXUDg[/vbtube]​
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #3
    A scapegoat for Syria? - The Washington Post


    By Editorial Board, Friday, July 6, 4:17 PM

    IT WAS just a week ago that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton cheerfully reported that Russia was ready to “lean” on the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad as part of a new United Nations plan for a transitional government. “They have told me that,” she assured one interviewer following a June 30 conference in Geneva. “They’ve decided to get on one horse, and it’s the horse that would back a transition plan that Kofi Annan would be empowered to implement,” she told another.
    Oops. It immediately became clear that Moscow had no such intention. In the past week, the official Ms. Clinton cited as her source — Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov — has said repeatedly that his government will not pressure Mr. Assad to leave power. “This is either an unscrupulous attempt to mislead serious people who shape foreign policy or simply a misunderstanding of what is going on,” Mr. Lavrov said Thursday. Western policy, he added, “is most likely to exacerbate the situation, lead to further violence and ultimately a very big war.”
    At yet another conference on Syria, in Paris on Friday, Ms. Clinton had changed her tune. Now she is accusing Russia and China of “blockading” progress on Syria, insisting that is “no longer tolerable” and warning that they “will pay a price.” She pleaded with participating governments to lobby Vladi­mir Putin to change course. This raises an interesting question: Was Ms. Clinton taken in by Mr. Lavrov? Or did she know all along that the new U.N. plan she has been promoting was stillborn?
    Either way, the Obama administration’s Syria diplomacy is making it look foolish as well as feckless. U.S. officials, apart perhaps from Ms. Clinton, appear to have no faith in their own policy. Conceding that the plan to appoint a transitional government is going nowhere, while Syrians die by the score every day, they resort to blaming Russia — as if they are shocked to discover that the Kremlin doesn’t want to support a pro-Western, pro-democracy agenda.
    In fact Mr. Putin’s intransigence was entirely predictable. Apart from the fact that the Assad regime is a longtime Russian client and arms purchaser, the KGB-trained strongman seethes at the notion of Western intervention to support a popular revolution against a dictator. Blocking such action — and being seen to do so — ­is his overriding priority. The more Ms. Clinton blames him for “blockading,” the more Mr. Putin preens.
    The administration does have reason to pretend that Russia is cooperating or can be induced to do so. Were it to acknowledge that that cause is hopeless — and that action at the United Nations is therefore impossible — it might come under pressure to consider other measures. One would be the protection of an rebel safe zone in northern Syria, which could help turn the military tide against the regime. The Turkish government reportedly proposed — again — at a NATO meeting last week that preparations for such a step be made. According to the Hurriyet newspaper, the idea was rejected by the United States, among others.
    So which government is preventing effective action on Syria, and which will pay the price? Ms. Clinton’s attempt to pin the blame on Russia looks like a diversion.
     

    Stormie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #4
    The more that the US tries to bully, the more appealing that Russia's defense of national independence is going to be. Ten years from now Hillary will publish a book where she will admit she and her administration were wrong about Syria.

    I don't know what's going on with her. It's sad to see her sounding so desparate
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #5
    I don't know what's going on with her. It's sad to see her sounding so desparate
    She’s desperate to run for the 2016 Presidential elections and her husband is coaching her at the expense of Obama.Ralph Nader: Bill Clinton ?laying the groundwork? for Hillary by ?undermining Obama? | Fox News
    It’s amazing to me how a hippy girl becomes one of the ruthless elite.
    Russia and China are given no choice but to fight back and protect their last functioning artery for energy through Syria and Iran. It’s as simple as that. I don’t think the US will win this one but it won’t give up that easily until after this year’s presidential elections.
    The cold war is back at the expense of the innocent masses. Unfortunately it’s starting out as hot regional civil wars…
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #6
    Russia opposes introduction of no-fly zone in Syria - The Times of India

    MOSCOW: Russia has termed the introduction of no-fly zone in Syria as "counter-productive" and "unilateral" step.

    On Friday, the West-led Friends of Syria group called in Paris the introduction of a no-fly zone in Syria, the crisis-torn country.

    "We repeatedly pointed out at the counter-productiveness of various unilateral steps, such like proposals about the creation of the humanitarian corridors and safety zones," Xinhua reported Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov as saying here Friday.

    "These ideas have not been supported by the international humanitarian organisations working in Syria. These dubious ideas are not needed," he said.

    The diplomat stressed that the UN Security Council did not make the decision on imposing of a no-fly zone over Syria and was unlikely to agree with the idea, "especially after what had happened in Libya".

    The no-fly zone in Libya "had been introduced in contradiction to the UN resolutions and it was actively used by the NATO countries and some of their allies to support one of the sides in the conflict," Gatilov said.

    The no-fly zone in Libya resulted in heavy damage to the country's infrastructure and civilian casualties, he told reporters.

    "It is the time not for urging the introduction of the no-fly zone, but for actively implementing the declaration adopted at the Geneva meeting on June 30, which envisages the immediate stop of violence by all parties and the launch of a comprehensive political process," he said.
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #7
    This thread is open for discussions and expressing opinions…

    Let’s use this thread for mature political discussions involving the unrest in the Middle East in general, Syria in particular and the spillover onto Lebanon.

    Syria's fighting spills into Lebanon, five killed | Reuters

    ?m=02&d=20120707&t=2&i=627572170&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=390&r=CBRE8660YB600


    10:30am EDT
    By Oliver Holmes
    BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syria's conflict spilled further into Lebanon on Saturday when mortar fire from President Bashar al-Assad's forces hit villages in the north, killing five people after rebels crossed the border to seek refuge, residents said.
    Rebels fighting to unseat Assad have used north Lebanon as a base and his forces have at times bombed villages and even pursued insurgents over the border, threatening to stoke tension in Lebanon, whose sectarian divisions mirror those in Syria.
    Residents of Lebanon's Wadi Khaled region said several mortar bombs hit farm buildings five to 20 km (3 to 12 miles) from the border at around 2 a.m. At midday villagers reported more explosions and said they heard gunfire close to the border.
    In the village of al-Mahatta, a house was destroyed, killing a 16-year-old girl and wounding a two-year old and a four-year old, family members told Reuters. A 25-year-old woman and a man were killed in nearby villages, residents said.
    Two Bedouins were killed in the village of Hishe, which straddles a river demarcating the border, when two rocket-propelled grenades fired from within Syria hit their tent, according to local residents.
    Lebanon's army confirmed one of the deaths and said several Syrian shells had landed in Lebanese territory, but had no further information. Lebanese President Michel Suleiman issued a statement regretting the deaths and promising an investigation.
    Syria's bloodshed has also encroached on the territory of Turkey, a much bigger and more militarily powerful neighbor. Ankara, a former Assad friend turned foe, reinforced its frontier and scrambled fighter aircraft several times after Syria shot down a Turkish reconnaissance jet on June 22.

    DIPLOMATIC IMPASSE
    The diplomatic stalemate that has frustrated international efforts to bring about a peaceful transition in Syria persisted on Saturday as China joined Russia in rejecting a U.S. accusation that Beijing and Moscow were obstacles to a solution.
    In Syria, the army bombarded towns across northern Aleppo province on Saturday in a concerted effort to root out insurgents who have taken control of some areas, the anti-government Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
    "The bombing is the heaviest since the start of military operations in rural Aleppo in an attempt to control the region after regular Syrian army forces suffered heavy losses over the past few months," the British-based activist group reported.
    It said three people had died, including two rebels.
    The official Syrian news agency SANA said troops foiled infiltration attempts by armed men from Turkey and Lebanon on Friday. It said one clash "resulted in the killing, injury of dozens of the infiltrated gunmen".
    In Idlib province, SANA said, an armed terrorist group was prevented from infiltrating from Turkey in Harem region. It quoted a source as saying a number were killed "while the rest managed to flee back into the Turkish territories".
    The Observatory said many families had been displaced and water, electricity and medical supplies were running short.
    DANGER AROUND ALEPPO
    Aleppo, Syria's second largest city and commercial hub, has been largely spared of the violence. But the outskirts of the city and the wider province have seen rebels gaining territory since the uprising began 16 months ago.
    SANA reported a clash "with an armed terrorist group in Azaz area north of Aleppo as it was attacking the citizens and perpetrating killings". It said eight gunmen were killed and six cars equipped with machineguns plus a stolen ambulance were destroyed. The agency named the dead.
    Opposition activists say at least 15,000 people have been killed since the uprising began. Assad says the rebels are foreign-backed terrorists who have killed thousands of army and police troops in hit-and-run attacks and roadside bombings.
    The Observatory said 93 people, mostly civilians, were killed across Syria on Friday, when protesters took the streets to call for a "people's liberation war."

    CHINA BRISTLES AT CLINTON'S ACCUSATION
    Russia and China have repeatedly used veto power at the U.N. Security Council to block international attempts to push Assad to leave power to make way for a democratic transition in the pivotal Arab country.
    At a "Friends of Syria" meeting grouping Assad's Western and Arab opponents, Clinton urged them to make Russia and China "pay a price" for helping the authoritarian leader stay in the office he, and his late father before him, have held for 42 years. ID:nL6E8I62J4]
    On Saturday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin shot back: "Any words and deeds that slander China and sow discord between China and other countries will be in vain."
    Russia and China say they are committed to the peace plan of U.N. envoy Kofi Annan that prescribes national dialogue, but reject the position of Western powers and their Gulf Arab allies that Assad must step down to enable reform in Syria.
    News on Friday that one of Assad's personal friends had defected and was headed for exile in France was hailed by Clinton as proof that members of the Damascus leadership were starting to "vote with their feet" and leave a sinking ship.
    Manaf Tlas, a Republican Guard brigadier and son of the longtime defense minister under Assad's father Hafez, has yet to surface abroad or clearly to throw his lot in with the rebels.
    But his desertion, leaked by family friends, was confirmed by the French government, giving a boost to the "Friends of Syria" conference it hosted in Paris.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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    Western powers and Sunni Muslim Arab rulers opposed to Assad, whose minority Alawite sect - an offshoot of Shi'ite Islam - has dominated Syria for decades, agreed to "massively increase" aid to the Syrian opposition.
    Deadlock in global diplomacy has left the Western powers casting about to give an impression of momentum growing against Assad. They have held a series of meetings, touting defections to try to pile psychological pressure on Assad's ruling elite.
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #8
    Syrious Deja Vu: 'US on Jihadist side...Against the Christians... Again...'
    More than a hundred nations supporting the Syrian opposition have urged tougher action by the UN against President Bashar al Assad. At a meeting in Paris, the US and its allies called for Chapter 7 of the UN Charter to be enacted, allowing economic sanctions, and if necessary, military intervention in Syria. And as Gayane Chichakyan explains, the West's backing of the Syrian rebels has echoes of another conflict.
    [vbtube]YZpGcNz0Kh0[/vbtube]​
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #9
    Syrian military conducts large-scale exercises in apparent warning to West not to intervene - The Washington Post

    twp_logo_300.gif


    Syrian military conducts large-scale exercises in apparent warning to West not to intervene

    By Associated Press, Updated: Sunday, July 8, 6:39 AM

    DAMASCUS, Syria — Syria’s military began large-scale exercises simulating defense against outside “aggression,” the state-run news agency said Sunday — an apparent warning to other countries not to intervene in the country’s crisis.
    The exercise began Saturday with naval forces in a scenario where they repelled an attack from the sea, and will include *** and ground forces over the next few days, SANA said. State TV broadcast footage of missiles being fired from launch vehicles and warships.
    Some in the Syrian opposition have appealed to the West for foreign forces to step in to stop bloodshed that they say has left more than 14,000 dead since the uprising against President Bashar Assad began in March 2011. So far, the West has shown little appetite to intervene militarily in the conflict.
    Special U.N. envoy Kofi Annan acknowledged in an interview published Saturday that the international community’s efforts to find a political solution to the escalating violence in Syria have failed.
    “The evidence shows that we have not succeeded,” he told the French daily Le Monde.
    Annan, the special envoy for the United Nations and the Arab League, is the architect of the most prominent international plan to end the crisis in Syria.
    His six-point plan was to begin with a cease-fire in mid-April between government forces and rebels seeking to topple Assad. But the truce never took hold, and now the almost 300 U.N. observers sent to monitor the cease-fire are confined to their hotels because of the escalating violence.
    U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday that time is running out on Syrian peace hopes and warned that the Syrian state could collapse.
    Speaking in Japan, Clinton said Annan’s acknowledgement that his peace plan is failing “should be a wake-up call for everyone.”
    She said last month was the deadliest for the Syrian people in the 16-month revolt, but added that the opposition “is getting more effective in defense of themselves and going on the offensive against the Syrian military.”
    Syrian Defense Minister Dawood Rajiha attended the maneuvers and praised the “exceptional performance” of the naval forces which showed “a high level of combat training and ability to defend Syria’s shores against any possible aggression.”
    “The navy carried out the training successfully, repelling the hypothetical attack and striking at given targets with high precision,” the report said.
     

    Ataraxia

    Active Member
    #10
    Clinton: Syria must end violence to avoid "catastrophic assault"

    TOKYO (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Sunday Syria's opposition forces were growing more effective and the sooner the violence ended, the higher the chances of sparing the Syrian government from a "catastrophic assault".

    "The sooner there can be an end to the violence and a beginning of a political transition process, not only will fewer people die, but there is a chance to save the Syrian state from a catastrophic assault that would be very dangerous not only to Syria but to the region," Clinton said at a news conference.

    It appeared clear that Clinton was referring to the possibility of Syrian rebels launching such an assault on state institutions -- a court and a broadcaster have been recent targets -- rather than to any outside intervention.

    "There is no doubt that the opposition is getting more effective in their defense of themselves and in going on the offence against the Syrian military and the Syrian government's militias. So, the future .... should be abundantly clear to those who support the Assad regime," Clinton added.

    "The sand is running out of the hour glass."

    Clinton was speaking in Tokyo after a meeting with Japanese Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba. The two were meeting on the sidelines of an international conference on aid to Afghanistan.


    ================

    These bolded words right there are the summation of what the Syrian crisis is all about. I do not like to talk about people's claims of human rights, because they are never there particularly on the level of states. Actually, never any time in history has human rights been the aim, but only power. Human rights is used as a tool for hegemony. And this is why states like Saudi Arabia are enforced, this is why al qaeda was produced in the first place, this is why people of Bahrain have to stay under their oppressive rulers while the Syrian regime have "an option". This is why there will always be problems and chaos in the world, because human rights do not exist. It is the tool of the most powerful. All those who try to topple the Assad regime nowadays, for instance, although the regime is ten times better on all fronts than the saudi arabian one, or the bahraini one, will not give one dollar for the bahraini protestors to even have "moral" power and not even military power to make a revolution despite a lot of protestors being dead already. The corrupt claims of human rights is what makes people oppose these claims of human rights altogether.

    And this claim of Clinton, (who is now more desperate and, therefore, the more desperate tend to lie less and lean on stating things just as they are without softening them) sums up the whole situation answering your question. First I will put it clearly, even though the Syrian regime is brutal, the act of people dying is actually a result of the "uprising". If the uprising had not happened, or at least not got armed as it had, there wouldn't have been dead people as there is today, there wouldn't be a huge economic problem hurting people directly and enforced by the west, there would have been a stable Syria with needs of reform just like every other country int he world. So crying over people dying is a huge scam and is an exploitation of the lives of the dead. Very strictly speaking, any state in the world being toppled will be met with the same force and more. That's what happened in the civil war in Lebanon too just to give a close example. Quite simply no one would complain about getting tortured in prison by the Syrian regime by waging a huge destructive war that causes more abuse and thousands of deaths. That would be an opportunistic move, and if so every regime in the world would fall down with force. If there were pure intentions, there would have been attempts by the west to wait for the reforms, see what will happen next and try to ease things out from far away and wait for gradual improvement, but not arming the opposition for war which would make what they were complaining about even worse.

    Plus, one of the biggest problems in the world right now in my opinion (specifically concerning third world countries) is the issue of globalization and human rights. All countries right now who attack other regimes ( ie Europe and USA) went through huge blood and destruction and oppression and "injustice" to get where they are now, and they gained their national identity and outlook out of pure inner struggle. And that's how things should happen. Nations are self-interested entities, and so the members of the nation have to decide on their things; You can't call the enemy/opponent (in this case any foreign nation) to tell you what to do in the nation. Otherwise; the nation won't be built on single unified self-interest and one outlook but will be built on division and chaos and foreign exploitation. So whatever a nation goes through, if you really want to build the nation, foreign elements cannot be involved. Just look at the countries supporting Syria ( even though in varying degrees) Brazil, Russia, China etc. These nations know what it takes to build a nation in a world of growing globalization and hegemony from world powers and know that nations can only be built with full inner agreement. If inner agreement doesn't happen, it's because there are huge problems and conflict in opinions and outlooks and that means they should not try to get involved. Getting involved under the "pretext" of human rights is the biggest trick and is a poison. Imagine some problems happen in Japan now, and the people want a revolution, and USA goes supporting them militarily and so under the pretext of human rights, when the fathers of those same people were bombed to ashes just half a century ago. Or look at how they went under the pretext of human rights into Iraq, and the damage brought on Iraq could not be brought under Saddam even if he lived for a thousands years, and now they left after doing what they do best, spread chaos and cause division.

    So when Clinton says "the Syrian regime must leave; otherwise a catastrophic assault will happen", she is simply making it clear that since USA has taken sides in this conflict and might even interfere, that she doesn't mind a catastrophe happens as long as what they want is achieved.


    A weaker submissive Syria is all they want. If it can unite or no after, won't matter at the moment, because in the latter case, it will not pose problems on them and that would be great, and in the former case, a stronger Syria will collide with USA sooner or later and they will come back and bring it down in any way possible under "legitimate" reasons that they will create. And stupid people will believe the "legitimacy" of these reasons simply because the powerful decide what is right.
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #11
    Clinton: Syria must end violence to avoid "catastrophic assault"

    TOKYO (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Sunday Syria's opposition forces were growing more effective and the sooner the violence ended, the higher the chances of sparing the Syrian government from a "catastrophic assault".

    "The sooner there can be an end to the violence and a beginning of a political transition process, not only will fewer people die, but there is a chance to save the Syrian state from a catastrophic assault that would be very dangerous not only to Syria but to the region," Clinton said at a news conference.

    It appeared clear that Clinton was referring to the possibility of Syrian rebels launching such an assault on state institutions -- a court and a broadcaster have been recent targets -- rather than to any outside intervention.

    "There is no doubt that the opposition is getting more effective in their defense of themselves and in going on the offence against the Syrian military and the Syrian government's militias. So, the future .... should be abundantly clear to those who support the Assad regime," Clinton added.

    "The sand is running out of the hour glass."

    Clinton was speaking in Tokyo after a meeting with Japanese Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba. The two were meeting on the sidelines of an international conference on aid to Afghanistan.


    ================

    These bolded words right there are the summation of what the Syrian crisis is all about. I do not like to talk about people's claims of human rights, because they are never there particularly on the level of states. Actually, never any time in history has human rights been the aim, but only power. Human rights is used as a tool for hegemony. And this is why states like Saudi Arabia are enforced, this is why al qaeda was produced in the first place, this is why people of Bahrain have to stay under their oppressive rulers while the Syrian regime have "an option". This is why there will always be problems and chaos in the world, because human rights do not exist. It is the tool of the most powerful. All those who try to topple the Assad regime nowadays, for instance, although the regime is ten times better on all fronts than the saudi arabian one, or the bahraini one, will not give one dollar for the bahraini protestors to even have "moral" power and not even military power to make a revolution despite a lot of protestors being dead already. The corrupt claims of human rights is what makes people oppose these claims of human rights altogether.

    And this claim of Clinton, (who is now more desperate and, therefore, the more desperate tend to lie less and lean on stating things just as they are without softening them) sums up the whole situation answering your question. First I will put it clearly, even though the Syrian regime is brutal, the act of people dying is actually a result of the "uprising". If the uprising had not happened, or at least not got armed as it had, there wouldn't have been dead people as there is today, there wouldn't be a huge economic problem hurting people directly and enforced by the west, there would have been a stable Syria with needs of reform just like every other country int he world. So crying over people dying is a huge scam and is an exploitation of the lives of the dead. Very strictly speaking, any state in the world being toppled will be met with the same force and more. That's what happened in the civil war in Lebanon too just to give a close example. Quite simply no one would complain about getting tortured in prison by the Syrian regime by waging a huge destructive war that causes more abuse and thousands of deaths. That would be an opportunistic move, and if so every regime in the world would fall down with force. If there were pure intentions, there would have been attempts by the west to wait for the reforms, see what will happen next and try to ease things out from far away and wait for gradual improvement, but not arming the opposition for war which would make what they were complaining about even worse.

    Plus, one of the biggest problems in the world right now in my opinion (specifically concerning third world countries) is the issue of globalization and human rights. All countries right now who attack other regimes ( ie Europe and USA) went through huge blood and destruction and oppression and "injustice" to get where they are now, and they gained their national identity and outlook out of pure inner struggle. And that's how things should happen. Nations are self-interested entities, and so the members of the nation have to decide on their things; You can't call the enemy/opponent (in this case any foreign nation) to tell you what to do in the nation. Otherwise; the nation won't be built on single unified self-interest and one outlook but will be built on division and chaos and foreign exploitation. So whatever a nation goes through, if you really want to build the nation, foreign elements cannot be involved. Just look at the countries supporting Syria ( even though in varying degrees) Brazil, Russia, China etc. These nations know what it takes to build a nation in a world of growing globalization and hegemony from world powers and know that nations can only be built with full inner agreement. If inner agreement doesn't happen, it's because there are huge problems and conflict in opinions and outlooks and that means they should not try to get involved. Getting involved under the "pretext" of human rights is the biggest trick and is a poison. Imagine some problems happen in Japan now, and the people want a revolution, and USA goes supporting them militarily and so under the pretext of human rights, when the fathers of those same people were bombed to ashes just half a century ago. Or look at how they went under the pretext of human rights into Iraq, and the damage brought on Iraq could not be brought under Saddam even if he lived for a thousands years, and now they left after doing what they do best, spread chaos and cause division.

    So when Clinton says "the Syrian regime must leave; otherwise a catastrophic assault will happen", she is simply making it clear that since USA has taken sides in this conflict and might even interfere, that she doesn't mind a catastrophe happens as long as what they want is achieved.


    A weaker submissive Syria is all they want. If it can unite or no after, won't matter at the moment, because in the latter case, it will not pose problems on them and that would be great, and in the former case, a stronger Syria will collide with USA sooner or later and they will come back and bring it down in any way possible under "legitimate" reasons that they will create. And stupid people will believe the "legitimacy" of these reasons simply because the powerful decide what is right.
    Thank you for elevating the level of discussion about the case of Syrian to its actual height and seriousness rather than counting the deaths and stirring up emotions for diversion in favor of promoting the hidden agendas.
    My comment to what you accurately described about Clinton’s open and obvious involvement is a sign of desperation. It is obvious that the US is looking at its future as an empire with serious concerns that Russia and China are real threats to its monopoly and the only way to slow them down is by limiting and controlling their breathing oxygen which happened to be oil and energy independence.
    It is public knowledge that the US plan was drawn during the Bush administration to invade seven Middle Eastern countries – one way or another, Syria, Lebanon and Iran included.
    As far as Iran’s nuisance to the West, I believe its nuclear plans for energy independence is at least, as annoying as its suspected intentions for becoming a nuclear power.
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #12
    [vbtube]wyir-5YgYMs[/vbtube]

    Listening to her big hearted concern about Syria gives the impression that Hillary Clinton has no problems as home to worry about such as stagnating economy, uncontrollable unemployment and a well kept secret about the rise of crime and street unrests due to economic hardships…
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #13
    'Attack on Iran after Syria falls major goal of the West'

    The UN's special envoy to Syria says international peace efforts have not succeeded, partly as a result of divisions between world powers. This comes a day after US Secretary of State Clinton said Russia and China will pay a price for allegedly supporting Assad. Patrick Henningsen, a Mideast analyst and editor at infowars.com, believes Syria is being used by the US as a proxy to start a war with Iran.

    [vbtube]43YKJzgVd7U[/vbtube]
     

    Ataraxia

    Active Member
    #14
    [vbtube]wyir-5YgYMs[/vbtube]

    Listening to her big hearted concern about Syria gives the impression that Hillary Clinton has no problems as home to worry about such as stagnating economy, uncontrollable unemployment and a well kept secret about the rise of crime and street unrests due to economic hardships…
    So true. Not only that, but the worse thing about USA is that they do not blame the state for murders and problems that happen in the country. If another country enjoys low levels of crime rate, for instance,, USA does not link that to the ideology of the state and the spirit and morality of the culture that it promotes, but try to dissociate that from that state's intentions. This is what makes them think that any problems that happen in their own country is not their concern to try to stop, but only to punish after. The state to them is not responsible for the culture promoted in the country. This is also one of the poisons that is spread by USA under the pretext of democracy and freedom. Even after exploiting all lands of the world economically, they still can't bring their country to a better condition from the inside.

    Anyway, although I mentioned Clinton's words above, an even more clear example of a summary of what is happening in Syria was said by Russia when Lavrov said that they know that what happens in Syria will decide the identity of the new middle east ( exact phrasing may differ).

    It just puts us as middle eastern citizens as tools, and to me it is very submissive to accept that big nations play with us while we agree with them, but even worse ask them to do that.

    It just comes to show what you pointed earlier at the idea of resource ambitions. We are just pieces of lands to them, "things" to use, and to shape.
    Just take lebanon, one wave of violence involved in the plan of the "new middle east" will move lebanon to a new identity that they never knew could happen. We have no control over anything right now ...
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #15
    [vbtube]43YKJzgVd7U[/vbtube]​
    This video shouldn’t go unnoticed. It is full of substance and a must see:

    Very comprehensive analysis explaining why peace in Syria is hard to achieve since the West is sabotaging it.

    As far as Hillary Clinton’s game, it is very possible for her to replace Joe Biden as VP on Obama’s Presidential ticket this November. That could be a win/win situation for her and Obama: She will be enhancing her chances to run for President in 2016 and Obama’s candidacy will look more attractive to minorities with the first US Woman VP on his ticket not to mention the solid support she will bring to Obama from the Jewish community after all her subservience to AIPAC…

    There is also the mention to Lebanon’s resistance as next target to open the way for an attack on Iran…
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #16
    So true. Not only that, but the worse thing about USA is that they do not blame the state for murders and problems that happen in the country. If another country enjoys low levels of crime rate, for instance,, USA does not link that to the ideology of the state and the spirit and morality of the culture that it promotes, but try to dissociate that from that state's intentions. This is what makes them think that any problems that happen in their own country is not their concern to try to stop, but only to punish after. The state to them is not responsible for the culture promoted in the country. This is also one of the poisons that is spread by USA under the pretext of democracy and freedom. Even after exploiting all lands of the world economically, they still can't bring their country to a better condition from the inside.

    Anyway, although I mentioned Clinton's words above, an even more clear example of a summary of what is happening in Syria was said by Russia when Lavrov said that they know that what happens in Syria will decide the identity of the new middle east ( exact phrasing may differ).

    It just puts us as middle eastern citizens as tools, and to me it is very submissive to accept that big nations play with us while we agree with them, but even worse ask them to do that.

    It just comes to show what you pointed earlier at the idea of resource ambitions. We are just pieces of lands to them, "things" to use, and to shape.
    Just take lebanon, one wave of violence involved in the plan of the "new middle east" will move lebanon to a new identity that they never knew could happen. We have no control over anything right now ...
    Check out this quote from another thread…

    American Conceit: The Case of Iran.
    By Shadia B. Drury

    It is hard to imagine a greater misfortune for the world than being saddled with a superpower whose exaggerated perception of its righteousness and innocence fuels its belligerence. The only thing worse is having an enemy that is just as arrogant, self-righteous, and belligerent. There is nothing new about such smug, myopic self-righteousness of course. It has been with us since monotheism managed to infiltrate the moral and political spheres of human life. With one God, one truth, and one right way, intolerance is bound to flourish. The conflict between America and its Islamic enemies is exacerbated by the fact that they share the same monotheistic monopoly on truth and justice, dualistic inclinations, and intolerable arrogance.
     

    Stormie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #17
    'Attack on Iran after Syria falls major goal of the West'


    The UN's special envoy to Syria says international peace efforts have not succeeded, partly as a result of divisions between world powers. This comes a day after US Secretary of State Clinton said Russia and China will pay a price for allegedly supporting Assad. Patrick Henningsen, a Mideast analyst and editor at infowars.com, believes Syria is being used by the US as a proxy to start a war with Iran.

    [vbtube]43YKJzgVd7U[/vbtube]
    The division between world powers is about who wants to preserve the UN and its charters. It seems it is only the Russians and Chinese right now who are trying to enforce the U.N. Charter and rule of international law. Up to a year and a half ago, Syria was stable then USA started planning with NATO to overthrow the regime and dismember the country with proxies coordinated from the NATO base in Turkey. What was very true was that the minorities in that country, including the Christians were living in peace and were safe, but now they are not only at risk, have also been the subject of massacres by the rebels. The Obama administration should be ashamed of itself and I will not feel sorry if it got defeated by the Romney's foreign policy gangster righwing team.
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #18
    The division between world powers is about who wants to preserve the UN and its charters. It seems it is only the Russians and Chinese right now who are trying to enforce the U.N. Charter and rule of international law. Up to a year and a half ago, Syria was stable then USA started planning with NATO to overthrow the regime and dismember the country with proxies coordinated from the NATO base in Turkey. What was very true was that the minorities in that country, including the Christians were living in peace and were safe, but now they are not only at risk, have also been the subject of massacres by the rebels. The Obama administration should be ashamed of itself and I will not feel sorry if it got defeated by the Romney's foreign policy gangster righwing team.
    Not that I’m a devoted Christian but I must say to those who are what a disgrace that the US actions in the Middle East starting with Lebanon’s 1975 civil war through the Taïf Accord and following the so called “Arab Spring” has done nothing but destruction and the disappearance of the Christians from that part of the world.
     

    J. Abizeid

    Well-Known Member
    #19
    The Press Association: Syria's Assad rules out quitting

    Syrian President Bashar Assad declared he is not afraid of meeting the same fate as the deposed and disgraced leaders of Libya and Egypt, insisting he has nothing in common with them.
    In one of his rare interviews with Western media since the deadly uprising in Syria erupted last year, Assad brushed off a question about whether he feared for his family, including his wife and three children.
    "It's a completely different situation," he told German broadcaster ARD. "What's happening in Egypt is different from what is happening in Syria ... You cannot compare," he said.
    He also rejected any comparisons with Libya, where rebels helped by Nato *** strikes toppled the regime. Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi was killed while fleeing advancing opposition fighters.
    "Describing what happened to al Gaddafi, this is savage, this is crime," he said in the interview which was conducted in English.
    The 16 months of upheaval in Syria, spurred by the Arab Spring's pro-democracy movements across the Middle East, have left over 14,000 people dead, according to activists. They accuse the autocratic ruler of crushing legitimate protests seeking reforms by waging a war against his own people.
    But in the interview, 46-year-old Assad who has ruled Syria since taking over from his father in 2000, accused the US of fuelling the uprising, saying that Washington ultimately bears responsibility for the deaths of innocent civilians in the Middle Eastern nation.
    The US is partnering with those "terrorists ... with weapons, money or public and political support at the United Nations," Assad said. "They offer the umbrella and political support to those gangs to ... destabilise Syria."
    Assad rejected allegations that his security forces was behind the violence, claiming that "supporters of the government, the victims from the security and the army" far outnumber those among civilians. Instead, he told ARD that an opposition made up of terrorists, gangs, "a mixture, an amalgam of Al Qaida (and) other extremists" is responsible for the violence.
    When asked directly about the killing of more than 100 civilians in the Syrian village of Houla in May, he blamed it on gangs who "came in hundreds from outside the city". The massacre caused an international outcry, and UN investigators have since concluded that Syrian government troops could be behind the killings.
     

    julesvernes99

    Legendary Member
    #20
    الجيش السوري في معامل الجزيرة بين الانشقاق والانشطار والانفطار .. بقلم : نارام سرجون

    ينهمك حدادو الربيع العربي هذه الأيام بدق حديد اللغة المحمى ضربات متوالية لتصبح الكلمات ذات منحنيات جديدة في العقل والوعي .. المفردات والمصطلحات تدخل الأفران اللغوية اللاهبة ثم تهوي عليها المطارق بعنف لتتغير مواصفاتها وأشكالها واستعمالاتها .. الحرب النفسية هي في الحقيقة فن تدوير الكلمات والمصطلحات لتصبح مفاتيح للأقفال القوية .. حيث مخازن الفطرة والعقل النظيف والخشب العتيق والتراث الشعبي .. وهذه المخازن هي التي يستهدفها الربيع العربي
    اللغة العربية تتعرض هذه الأيام للتعذيب .. والمفردات مصابة بالهلع لأنها تفقد ذاكرتها وعذريتها من شدة الضرب على رؤوسها ..وتتعرض أناملها للكسر تحت المطارق الثورية .. وتقص ضفائرها الطويلة لتناسب قيم الحرية والديمقراطية القطرية ..

    ولكن لأنني أقدس معاني الكلمات العربية فانني أرشها بالبخور كل يوم .. وأغسل لها بالصابون المعطر وجهها الذي اتسخ بعد كل رحلة عذاب على شفاه مذيعات الجزيرة والعربية حيث الطين والمستنقعات .. كما أنني أحممها كل مساء بعد نشرات الأخبار بماء الورد والآس .. وبعد كل طواف على مقالات كتاب الناتو الكثيرة فانني أحمل كل الكلمات العربية الحزينة التي اقتيدت قسرا للدفاع عن الناتو الى فسحة تحت الشمس والى استحمام في برك العطور لما أصابها من نتانة وقذارة واكتئاب .. لأن لغة الصحراء لم تخلق لتذل الصحراء ولتمسح نعال الجنود الغزاة .. ولم تخلق لتتفرج على مسرحية (الفصل السابع).
    كم أشفق على اللغة العربية هذه الأيام .. وكم أحس أنني محتاج لضمها الى صدري بحنان بعد هذه القسوة والعنف والكذب فلم يبق في اللغة شيء لم يتغير معناه الا حروف الجر وحرف الواو والعطف وحيثما !!.. ومع هذا فان الكلمة التي أتعاطف معها أكثر من غيرها وأتعاطف معها بكل جوارحي وأراها ملوية الذراع ومعلقة في الهواء تتأرجح على اشجار الربيع العربي هي كلمة (انشقاق)..

    لم تنتهك كلمة في العربية كما انتهك عرض هذه الكلمة .. فهي يؤتى بها كما الاماء الى كل المناسبات لترقص وتدق على الدف .. وهذا الاختراع في تصميم معنى الانشقاق لن تروه الا في لغة الربيع العربي.. اللغة التي تحتقر كل العقول وكأنها طبول..
    بالرغم من تخويفنا بحكايا الانشقاق منذ عام ونصف فان كل ماسمي انشقاقا عن الجيش السوري لايعدو كونه من الناحية العسكرية بلامعنى ..ومن نافلة القول ان اللجوء والفرار للأفراد لايمكن تسميته انشقاقا .. لأن الانشقاق هو انفصال جزء مهم عن الجسم الأصلي .. وفرار جندي أو ضابط أو طيار يشبه سقوط ورقة من شجرة كثيفة الأوراق ..ولايشبه سقوط غصن أو فرع كبير ..وسقوط الأوراق لايعني أنه سقوط للشجرة .. قد يعني أنه خريف ..لكن الخريف لايهزم الجذوع والفروع القوية السامقة.. وبالطبع لايهزم الجذور العميقة التي لاتسمع بيانات السقوط الحر للأوراق الصفراء ..ولايعنيها ماتعانيه من وجع تحت "عربات أيلول" .. بل من تحت كل ورقة هوت يتدفق ورق كثير أخضر وبراعم ..تأتي من الجذر الراسخ..
    في المعاني العسكرية للانشقاق لايكون هناك انشقاق مالم يتمكن المنشق من استعمال سلاحه ..والانشقاق في المعاني العسكرية الرسمية هو أن يعلن قائد عسكري خروجه مع قواته على طاعة النظام وهو لايزال مسيطرا على جزء من الجغرافيا .. الانشقاق يعني بقاء القائد والضابط في قطعته العسكرية يوجه فوهات المدافع والدبابات تجاه خصومه .. أما أن يترك قطعته العسكرية ويلوذ بالفرار فمن السخف تسميته انشقاقا .. فماذا يساوي قائئد فيلق هارب من غير فيلقه ومحاربيه؟؟ ان أصغر جندي تمسك أصابعه بمفاتيح النار في دبابة يساوي في مكانه على مقعده في دبابته جيشا من الجنرالات الفارين الذين ينضمون للمتصارعين في قاعات الفنادق الفخمة حيث الثرثرة ..تتعب من الثرثرة..وفناجين القهوة تتعب من فناجين القهوة ..والميكروفونات تتعب من الأصوات ..
    كم تثير سخريتي هذه الاحتفالات بما يحاول كتاب الناتو تسميته انشقاقات .. وأنا في كل قراءاتي التاريخية للصراعات والمعارك العسكرية تعلمت أن انشقاق القادة والضباط يتم فيما هم محاطون بجنودهم .. وينامون على سلاسل الدبابات كما ينامون على الأرائك .. وحدهم ثوار العرب في ربيعهم ينشقون الى العواصم الغربية حيث العطور والأزياء والفنادق الفخمة..أو الى أي ملجأ للأيتام والمعاقين.. فيما التسمية الصحيحة لفعلهم هو (الفرار) .. والفرار عمل ليس عسكريا ..بل من صفات اللصوص ..
    في اللغة التي تعلمتها على اصولها كانت كلمة الانشقاق تعني شيئا عظيما وفي زمن الجزيرة صارت الكلمة من أتفه الكلمات .. كنت سمعت أول مرة في حياتي بكلمة انشقاق في سورة الانشقاق (السورة 84 من القرآن الكريم): "اذا السماء انشقت.. واذنت لربها وحقت ..واذا الأرض مدت .. وألقت مافيها وتخلت.."
    وفي سورة القمر ورد الانشقاق معطيا معنى عظيما: واقتربت الساعة وانشق القمر ..ويقال انها عنت معجزة شق القمر
    وفي سورة مريم ورد الانشقاق كما يلي: تَكَادُ السَّمَوَاتُ يَتَفَطَّرْنَ مِنْهُ وَتَنْشَقُّ الأَرْضُ
    الربيع العربي جعل معنى الانشقاق تافها وعملا صبيانيا ضئيلا .. فالانشقاق هو تعرض بنية عظيمة للتصدع والفوالق التي تهشمها ..فالسماء تنشق والقمر والأرض ..أما الجزيرة فوجدت معنى آخر للانشقاق مثل: انشقاق الملازم عبد الرزاق طلاس .. وانشقاق مدير عام شركة الزيوت في دوما .. وانشقاق حارس مكتب المساعد جميل
    كم انشقاق عبد الرزاق طلاس يشبه انشقاق السماء أو القمر برأيكم من حيث القوة المعنوية والتأتير؟؟؟ وكم اهتز الجيش العربي السوري (وهو أشبه بعظمته بالسماء أو القمر) بانشقاق عبد الرزاق طلاس؟؟ أما كان من الأفضل القول: ان ورقة صغيرة سقطت من شجرة الجيش السوري الضخمة بفعل الرياح العاتية ..وكان هذا هو المعنى الدقيق دون مبالغة؟؟ لأن التهويل يجعلنا نحس أن العميد ماهر الأسد هو الذي انشق ..

    ومن جديد يسيل لعاب كتاب الناتو لما يقال انه خروج مناف طلاس من سورية ..وبالرغم انني لم اسمع تصريحا للرجل يعلن فيه تمرده على الجيش فان الاقلام والسيوف امتشقت ورحبت بما سمته انشقاقا .. ولاأدري أين هو انشقاق ضابط خرج من دون رصاصة واحدة ومن دون بزته العسكرية .. بل ومن دون حذائه وحزامه .. انه انشقاق السماء والقمر في مصطلحات الربيع العربي ..انه لايعني شيئا مهما قيل انه خزان معلومات عسكرية ..لأن المعارضة تحتاج من يحارب على الأرض عن الناتو .. والناتو ليس بحاجة لمعلومات عسكرية لسبب بسيط أن لديه كما هائلا من المعلومات العسكرية عن التسلح السوري وهذا هو السبب الذي يجعله مترددا جدا في التدخل ..وهو يعلم التنسيق الكامل بين ثلاثة جيوش هي السوري والايراني والروسي ..اضافة الى جيش حزب الله ..والجيش الخامس ..الذي لايعرفه الكثيرون ..!!الناتو بحاجة لضابط كبير يخرج بدباباته ومدافعه ليحارب نيابة عن الناتو ضد هذ الجيوش ..وهذا الضابط لم يوجد بعد ..
    ومع هذا فاننا محظوظون جدا أن الجزيرة وكتاب الناتو اكتفوا بسرقة معنى الانشقاق وتحويله عن مساره من انشقاق السماء والأرض واقمر الى انشقاقات الربيع العربي .. ولنحمد الله أنهم لم يستعملوا مصطلحات "نووية" مثل مصطلح "الانشطار" الذي سيسرقوه من قول الله (اذا السماء انشطرت) والقول بأن العميد فلان الفلاني انشطر عن الجيش السوري .. مثلما تنشطر الذرة والالكترون..ويحدث الاتفتت والانفجار النووي..
    ولاأملك الا أن أشكر الله على أن هنالك كلمة أكثر رهبة أفلتت من أفران لغة عرب الناتو ألا وهي "الانفطار" التي نجت من السرقة وبقيت دون انتباه الثوار المؤمنين وهي أمام عيونهم في سورة "الانفطار" (واذا السماء انفطرت..واذا الكواكب انتثرت .. واذا البحار فجرت..واذا القبور بعثرت علمت نفس ماقدمت وأخّرت..)
    ونجزل الشكر لله على أنه نجّانا من سماع مصطلح "انفلاق" وسرقته من سورة الفلق حيث الصبح ينفلق من الليل ..والا لكان الثوار قالوا ان الضابط الفلاني انفلق عن الجيش السوري ..ولاحول ولاقوة الا بالله ..
    ولاأملك الا أن اقول قل أعوذ برب الفلق .. والا لكنا سمعنا بحركات الانشطار والانفلاق والانفطار والانفتاق .. وهلل الكتاب المجانين لانشطار هذا وانفتاق ذاك ..ولانفلاق هذا وانفطار ذاك .. لافطر الله لكم قلبا ولا وطنا .
     
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