The True Horror of Islam

Nasser

Well-Known Member
#1
As a person that strongly believes in free speech and freedom of having whichever belief a person might have, I respect the right of every individual or group to involve themselves in what they believe to be true and give them moral comfort. However, that respect and freedom given to such group should be reciprocal, as in this said group should have mutual respect and tolerate the freedom of others as well.



I don’t want to discuss Abrahamic religions in their original forms as they were ‘revealed’ thousands of years ago, as that doesn’t concern me and is not related to this topic.

What I would like to point out in this discussion is the religious forms as they are applied in our current times.



Fortunately, one of the mainstream religions (Christianity) and almost all Christian communities are more or less tolerant and they’re not violently setting people on fire or murdering anyone in the name of their religion. Individual wackos and small violent groups that may exist does not apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians who successfully interpreted their religion in a peaceful manner.

Point is, the mainstream interpretation of their religion is peaceful.

Although their religious views on certain topics might be offensive, for example on homosexuality, it is within their right to believe that homosexual behavior is wrong as long as it is only an opinion.



The unfortunate part comes within the second mainstream Abrahamic religion, Islam.

The horrendous side of Islam that should alarm everyone, even who they call themselves moderate muslims, is that Islam is not a passive religion. It is as active as it can get.

In other words, even in its most moderate mainstream interpretations it is not a religion for self. It is a religion that actively seeks imposing its ideas on others, even by means of physical and/or psychological abuse or threats, and even financial abuse when they’re in power (by means of Jizya).

Below some quotations of some verses (Surat AlTawbah) that indicates what was previously mentioned:

فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَذَا وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ إِن شَاء إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ

قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ

These are just a tiny example out of hundreds of verses with similar context regarding apostates, infidels, homosexuals… hence the previous warning to even what they call themselves moderate muslims, they’re after you as well once they have the power to execute their religion.



Few days ago I’ve had a discussion with a muslim lady (Hijabi) who portrayed herself as moderate and that she isn’t into what extremist clergymen say, typical statement until you corner them into tricky questions (Yes, I’ve had more or less the same conversation with plenty of those ‘moderate’ muslims).

Once the discussion reached the topics of 7oudoud (7ad Al Riddah for example) and homosexuals, she claimed that these punishments would only occur if an Islamic state is in control. However, she didn’t mind that apostates get killed and homosexuals get thrown off rooftops, even if such person is a relative. So much for being a ‘moderate’.

Unfortunately, that is the mainstream Islamic interpretation on these topics. They have no tolerance of others choices and lives, and that is to many the true horror of islam and the fear of these people attainment of power, which they actively seek to obtain even in lands where they’re still a minority.



Therefore, until these Islamic communities reform their religion into a truly peaceful set of ideas, it is our human responsibility to make sure these people never reach power.

It is our human responsibility to combat them and their ideas, it is a battle forced upon us in this part of the world specifically.

The least anyone can do, which I actively do, is engage with your muslim entourage and friends with these discussions. A lot of them don’t even know their religion that well, and from their position of ignorance they’re unconsciously helping those real muslims who will doom us if they reach power.

The more muslims realize the horrors of their religion, the easier it will be for them to dump it or reform it.



Now, before it is too late.
 
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  • Iron Maiden

    Well-Known Member
    #2
    Very courageous of you to engage with sand people about their religious concepts and confront their intolerance to other people’s choices.
    take care and stay safe m8, people with religious fervor are very unpredictable and have no regard to their interlocutor when they get cornered .

    Just one point that i wanted to raise, at least people from our region know arabic and can nuance stuff a bit more when they read the quran, while second,third generation or converts in europe barely have any grasp over the language and get spoonfed a much more hateful and aggressive/raw form of islam.

    So be extra careful when debating some muslim from the west.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #3
    Wow...thank you @Nasser .

    I admire your intellectual honesty and your courage. It is one thing to confront other groups, but to take on the problematic behaviours within the group one is born is shows true strenght and quality of character.

    Bravo to you!
     

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    #4
    As a person that strongly believes in free speech and freedom of having whichever belief a person might have, I respect the right of every individual or group to involve themselves in what they believe to be true and give them moral comfort. However, that respect and freedom given to such group should be reciprocal, as in this said group should have mutual respect and tolerate the freedom of others as well.



    I don’t want to discuss Abrahamic religions in their original forms as they were ‘revealed’ thousands of years ago, as that doesn’t concern me and is not related to this topic.

    What I would like to point out in this discussion is the religious forms as they are applied in our current times.



    Fortunately, one of the mainstream religions (Christianity) and almost all Christian communities are more or less tolerant and they’re not violently setting people on fire or murdering anyone in the name of their religion. Individual wackos and small violent groups that may exist does not apply to the overwhelming majority of Christians who successfully interpreted their religion in a peaceful manner.

    Point is, the mainstream interpretation of their religion is peaceful.

    Although their religious views on certain topics might be offensive, for example on homosexuality, it is within their right to believe that homosexual behavior is wrong as long as it is only an opinion.



    The unfortunate part comes within the second mainstream Abrahamic religion, Islam.

    The horrendous side of Islam that should alarm everyone, even who they call themselves moderate muslims, is that Islam is not a passive religion. It is as active as it can get.

    In other words, even in its most moderate mainstream interpretations it is not a religion for self. It is a religion that actively seeks imposing its ideas on others, even by means of physical and/or psychological abuse or threats, and even financial abuse when they’re in power (by means of Jizya).

    Below some quotations of some verses (Surat AlTawbah) that indicates what was previously mentioned:

    فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلاَ يَقْرَبُواْ الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَذَا وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ إِن شَاء إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ

    قَاتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَلاَ يُحَرِّمُونَ مَا حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَلاَ يَدِينُونَ دِينَ الْحَقِّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَابَ حَتَّى يُعْطُواْ الْجِزْيَةَ عَن يَدٍ وَهُمْ صَاغِرُونَ

    These are just a tiny example out of hundreds of verses with similar context regarding apostates, infidels, homosexuals… hence the previous warning to even what they call themselves moderate muslims, they’re after you as well once they have the power to execute their religion.

    Few days ago I’ve had a discussion with a muslim lady (Hijabi) who portrayed herself as moderate and that she isn’t into what extremist clergymen say, typical statement until you corner them into tricky questions (Yes, I’ve had more or less the same conversation with plenty of those ‘moderate’ muslims).

    Once the discussion reached the topics of 7oudoud (7ad Al Riddah for example) and homosexuals, she claimed that these punishments would only occur if an Islamic state is in control. However, she didn’t mind that apostates get killed and homosexuals get thrown off rooftops, even if such person is a relative. So much for being a ‘moderate’.

    Unfortunately, that is the mainstream Islamic interpretation on these topics. They have no tolerance of others choices and lives, and that is to many the true horror of islam and the fear of these people attainment of power, which they actively seek to obtain even in lands where they’re still a minority.

    Therefore, until these Islamic communities reform their religion into a truly peaceful set of ideas, it is our human responsibility to make sure these people never reach power.

    It is our human responsibility to combat them and their ideas, it is a battle forced upon us in this part of the world specifically.

    The least anyone can do, which I actively do, is engage with your muslim entourage and friends with these discussions. A lot of them don’t even know their religion that well, and from their position of ignorance they’re unconsciously helping those real muslims who will doom us if they reach power.

    The more muslims realize the horrors of their religion, the easier it will be for them to dump it or reform it.

    Now, before it is too late.
    though it is one step in the right direction. however no real solution can be implemented if it is not to be based on truth and objective reality. this is the common denominator that has always marked the rise of humanity.

    the truth for instance is not that Christians have found a non-violent interpretation of Christianity. the truth is that Christianity by definition is non-violent. the truth is that there is no such thing as abrahamic religions, the term is simply used to lump together extremely different and contradicting ideologies to mask the reality of the differences between them.

    truth is the foundation of all human intellect, including theology. it is the canvas upon which all other notions are knitted. if islam is in some of its aspects the monstrosity that it is, it is because in these aspect it does indeed violate the truth in one way or the other.

    if you want to mend that abomination with an other transgression against truth, then the end result will not be something all that different from what you are attempting to reject within islam, and the whole struggle would be rather futile.

    islam in most of its parts is a house of cards that has somehow miraculously lasted into the 21st century. it will not however be able to overcome the test of reason that the islamic world has been exposed to in particular with the information revolution after long centuries of isolation and seclusion. it is bound to change and evolve or else it would inescapably crumble from within. the only fear is that it might crumble with a loud boom that might leave its impact on mankind overall, and the more islamic authorities resist the needed change, the bigger that explosion will become.
     
    #5
    though it is one step in the right direction. however no real solution can be implemented if it is not to be based on truth and objective reality. this is the common denominator that has always marked the rise of humanity.

    the truth for instance is not that Christians have found a non-violent interpretation of Christianity. the truth is that Christianity by definition is non-violent. the truth is that there is no such thing as abrahamic religions, the term is simply used to lump together extremely different and contradicting ideologies to mask the reality of the differences between them.

    truth is the foundation of all human intellect, including theology. it is the canvas upon which all other notions are knitted. if islam is in some of its aspects the monstrosity that it is, it is because in these aspect it does indeed violate the truth in one way or the other.

    if you want to mend that abomination with an other transgression against truth, then the end result will not be something all that different from what you are attempting to reject within islam, and the whole struggle would be rather futile.

    islam in most of its parts is a house of cards that has somehow miraculously lasted into the 21st century. it will not however be able to overcome the test of reason that the islamic world has been exposed to in particular with the information revolution after long centuries of isolation and seclusion. it is bound to change and evolve or else it would inescapably crumble from within. the only fear is that it might crumble with a loud boom that might leave its impact on mankind overall, and the more islamic authorities resist the needed change, the bigger that explosion will become.

    All we need to do is compare Jesus x Muhammad. Jesus's only message was of love and acceptance towards others, his teachings spread organically. Muhammad created his cult in order to create an empire, intimidating and killing literally millions of people in the process. Most people who converted to Islam in the beginning did so out of fear. His message was the opposite that of Jesus.
     

    Nasser

    Well-Known Member
    #6
    though it is one step in the right direction. however no real solution can be implemented if it is not to be based on truth and objective reality. this is the common denominator that has always marked the rise of humanity.

    the truth for instance is not that Christians have found a non-violent interpretation of Christianity. the truth is that Christianity by definition is non-violent. the truth is that there is no such thing as abrahamic religions, the term is simply used to lump together extremely different and contradicting ideologies to mask the reality of the differences between them.

    truth is the foundation of all human intellect, including theology. it is the canvas upon which all other notions are knitted. if islam is in some of its aspects the monstrosity that it is, it is because in these aspect it does indeed violate the truth in one way or the other.

    if you want to mend that abomination with an other transgression against truth, then the end result will not be something all that different from what you are attempting to reject within islam, and the whole struggle would be rather futile.

    islam in most of its parts is a house of cards that has somehow miraculously lasted into the 21st century. it will not however be able to overcome the test of reason that the islamic world has been exposed to in particular with the information revolution after long centuries of isolation and seclusion. it is bound to change and evolve or else it would inescapably crumble from within. the only fear is that it might crumble with a loud boom that might leave its impact on mankind overall, and the more islamic authorities resist the needed change, the bigger that explosion will become.
    I specifically mentioned the current forms of religions nowadays in order not to dive in and deviate the topic to the practices of said religions in previous eras, as it does not concern me for this specific discussion. Whether Christianity is by its definition, core or just the mainstream interpretations and practices throughout the ages is peaceful or not, what matters to me in this particular discussion is the current mainstream behavior of christian communities, which is peaceful and not aggressive.

    If islamic communities suddenly start being tolerant and accepting of others, I would have no problem with them nowadays, regardless of their barbaric past and regardless of the big fat lies their beliefs are based upon. I would still be against their beliefs, as they're not true. But I wouldn't mind coexisting with any community if there is mutual respect of freedoms.

    Thing is, it isn't going to happen suddenly. It will be a tough process, and unfortunately it will cause alot of troubles and 'explosions' as you have mentioned. But it is bound to happen with all the enlightenment of this era and the easy access of information and discussions. Hence this call to actively engage in that process, each to his capabilities and within his circles.

    It needs to be crystal clear and explained to muslims, no one is against their religion because of hate or racism or whatever. The ones who are against their teachings are against it because their teachings are against us(the others) violently. When we actively criticize Islam, it is considered an act of defense from our part, knowing what their teachings are.
     
    Last edited:

    Nasser

    Well-Known Member
    #7
    Wow...thank you @Nasser .

    I admire your intellectual honesty and your courage. It is one thing to confront other groups, but to take on the problematic behaviours within the group one is born is shows true strenght and quality of character.

    Bravo to you!
    The true strength is that of the people in our region who suffered but resisted and refused to be intimidated by the islamic expasion throughout centuries and remained who they are.
    But thank you nonetheless.

    They resisted, now it is our turn to resist.
     

    manifesto

    Well-Known Member
    #8
    @Nasser, thank you for joining the cultural jihad against Islam!

    You and comrade @SeaAb are doing a great job highlighting the horrors of Mohammed's evil cult.

    Hopefully @Jorje will get on board one day and stop being a hijabi-hugger!
     

    Achilles

    Active Member
    #9
    I am against these kind of threads here. Lebanon is a diversified country and as long as we want to live within the actual borders of Lebanon, and to share the political power with other sects, a minimum respect toward the belief of these sects should be mandatory.

    Of course discussing or comparing theological points is OK; but cheap insults will not help in sharing and running the same country....
     

    manifesto

    Well-Known Member
    #10
    I am against these kind of threads here. Lebanon is a diversified country and as long as we want to live within the actual borders of Lebanon, and to share the political power with other sects, a minimum respect toward the belief of these sects should be mandatory.

    Of course discussing or comparing theological points is OK; but cheap insults will not help in sharing and running the same country....

    Is it an insult though, if you're only highlighting the flaws in their book?
    It's not like we're making up this stuff.

    Many Lebanese Muslims are not fully aware of their religious texts. They naively assume that religiously-motivated violence is only carried out by ISIS and not endorsed by their Quran or Hadith.
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #11
    I am against these kind of threads here. Lebanon is a diversified country and as long as we want to live within the actual borders of Lebanon, and to share the political power with other sects, a minimum respect toward the belief of these sects should be mandatory.

    Of course discussing or comparing theological points is OK; but cheap insults will not help in sharing and running the same country....
    I don't see anything insulting in this thread.

    And, no, we are not supposed to show respect toward violent and abusive beliefs. Just because they happen to hide behind the banner of religion, it doesn't make them any more acceptable.
     

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    #12
    I specifically mentioned the current forms of religions nowadays in order not to dive in and deviate the topic to the practices of said religions in previous eras, as it does not concern me for this specific discussion. Whether Christianity is by its definition, core or just the mainstream interpretations and practices throughout the ages is peaceful or not, what matters to me in this particular discussion is the current mainstream behavior of christian communities, which is peaceful and not aggressive.

    If islamic communities suddenly start being tolerant and accepting of others, I would have no problem with them nowadays, regardless of their barbaric past and regardless of the big fat lies their beliefs are based upon. I would still be against their beliefs, as they're not true. But I wouldn't mind coexisting with any community if there is mutual respect of freedoms.

    Thing is, it isn't going to happen suddenly. It will be a tough process, and unfortunately it will cause alot of troubles and 'explosions' as you have mentioned. But it is bound to happen with all the enlightenment of this era and the easy access of information and discussions. Hence this call to actively engage in that process, each to his capabilities and within his circles.

    It needs to be crystal clear and explained to muslims, no one is against their religion because of hate or racism or whatever. The ones who are against their teachings are against it because their teachings are against us(the others) violently. When we actively criticize Islam, it is considered an act of defense from our part, knowing what their teachings are.
    whatever mankind or a group of human beings believe in, must offer a very smooth and homogeneous truth for it to prevail and last. otherwise it will fail the test of time. what we have been witnessing so far is a flow of individuals walking away from islam or embracing something else each for their own reason.

    while these decisions taken on the individual levels are not something to be underestimated and while it is a major phenomenon, critically addressing the core ideology on a global level is what will make the greater impact and present the definitive solution.

    however such approach is still at a very timid stage, and most of such attempts are deflected by a plethora of factors, mainly ones that carry short sighted political and ideological agendas. this is why there is a dire need for people who want to take your stand to revise the veracity of their whole perspective about human ideology and theology. you can take this forum as a tiny sample, whenever i have pointed out some issues within islam i was faced with all sorts of slogans and accusations of racism, extremism, bigotry etc.. not just from muslems, but mainly from people who falsely label themselves as liberals and progressives.

    the dent that you will be able to make in the problematic notions of islam might not be enough to change its reality in this atmosphere of antagonizing identity politics. you need to dismantle that as well in order to get to your objective and deliver your medicine straight into the thick trunk of the sick tree instead of treating each leaf individually.

    and in order to make that medicine as potent as possible, you need to do your homework, and correctly assimilate the development and the progress of mankind and re-embrace a healthy notion of values, virtues, and morality; because at the end of the day, the undoing of islam will stem from the fact that mankind surpasses the god of islam in terms of the moral standards they subscribe to. and is this not the very reason why you are taking such a courageous stance?

    at any rate, and as was pointed before, be careful, this is a dangerous ground you are threading upon.
     

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #13
    DnoEEyoXcAARq2e.jpg:large

    what muyslims go for inner struggle
    add to that , the real threat f death


    مراحل هروب #المسلم من نصوص #الإسلام! انا بقيت أهرب عدة سنوات من هذه النصوص، حتى وجدت نفسي هاربا من الاسلام نفسه. التحرر من الاسلام عام ٢٠١٤ كان أصعب وأحسن قرار أخذته، لأنه كان السبب في بدء رحلة نموي الحقيقية روحيا ومعرفيا التي أوصلتني إلى المحرر الأعظم
     

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #15
    التخلف هو حين تكون في القرن ال21 وتريد تطبيق أعراف وقوانين قبيلة عاشت في القرن ال7 وتلك القبيلة كانت متخلفة مقارنة بالحضارات التي كانت حولها. ثم تعتقد أنك ستحكم العالم في يوم من الأيام بتلك التقاليد وتلك القوانين والأعراف البالية. وفوق كل هذا تعتقد أن تلك الأعراف مقدسة فوق النقد
     

    Iron Maiden

    Well-Known Member
    #16
    DnoEEyoXcAARq2e.jpg:large

    what muyslims go for inner struggle
    add to that , the real threat f death


    مراحل هروب #المسلم من نصوص #الإسلام! انا بقيت أهرب عدة سنوات من هذه النصوص، حتى وجدت نفسي هاربا من الاسلام نفسه. التحرر من الاسلام عام ٢٠١٤ كان أصعب وأحسن قرار أخذته، لأنه كان السبب في بدء رحلة نموي الحقيقية روحيا ومعرفيا التي أوصلتني إلى المحرر الأعظم
    Who said that?
     

    manifesto

    Well-Known Member
    #17
    DnoEEyoXcAARq2e.jpg:large

    what muyslims go for inner struggle
    add to that , the real threat f death


    مراحل هروب #المسلم من نصوص #الإسلام! انا بقيت أهرب عدة سنوات من هذه النصوص، حتى وجدت نفسي هاربا من الاسلام نفسه. التحرر من الاسلام عام ٢٠١٤ كان أصعب وأحسن قرار أخذته، لأنه كان السبب في بدء رحلة نموي الحقيقية روحيا ومعرفيا التي أوصلتني إلى المحرر الأعظم
    Is it safe to share this on my social media outlets, or can I go to jail for it?
     

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #18
    Is it safe to share this on my social media outlets, or can I go to jail for it?
    If you're not sure, don't risk it.

    You guys stay safe out there. Don't take unnecessary risks. There are many ways to engage people on such topics. Choose wisely.
     
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