The True Horror of Islam

Rafidi

Rafidi

Legendary Member
The last issue I'd shed light on before I exit this thread: the age of Aisha as at when the Prophet Muhammad married her. This is a favorite topic of evangelicals and Christian radicals and islamophobes generally and will hardly not come up in any islamophobic gathering.

based on my research, the following points i concluded:

1. Aisha was anything between the ages of 17 to 21 years old according to historical sources like Tabari, not hadith sources.

2. Aisha was married to Jubeir Ibn Motem before her marriage to the Prophet. Her marriage had to be dissolved and divorce to occur before she could marry the Prophet.

3. The mother of Jesus, Mary was 12 years old when she was given to Joseph. You cannot judge the past and its cultural practices with our own present standards.

4. The term "pedophile" is a recent addition in the English dictionary. The age of consent in Europe and america, up until last century used to be as low as 10. Just yesterday, a lawmaker in the USA asked for the age of consent to be dropped to 10.

5. Islam proposes mental, physical and emotional maturity before marriage after the age of puberty.

6. The reason for deflating the age of Aisha as at the time the Prophet married her, and inflating the age of Sayyida Khadija as at the time of marriage is based on sectarian sympathies. Due to the atrocities committed by Aisha in the battle of Jamal in particular, deflating her age and making her the innocent baby the Prophet married will prop up her image.

Since Shia are respectful and more loving of Sayyidah Khadija, whom according to Aisha herself she was jealous of Sayyida Khadijah, the former has been made an old senile woman with red gums. And Aisha was elevated to the position of "favorite wife". While according to a hadith, Aisha felt so much jealous of Sayyida Khadija, the only wife to bore the Prophet children, even after the death of the former. It was evident who the favorite wife was. The truth is as at the time of marriage, the Prophet and Sayyida Khadijah were around the same age. She wasnt older than him twice his age.
 
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  • Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Dont worry abt my progeny, worry abt yours they might come home one day and tell you god doesnt exist

    و لحّق عالسم والقهر

    Hugs and kisses
    "Let there be no compulsion in religion" (Holy Quran 2:256)

    "Let those who will believe, and let those who will disbelieve" (Holy Quran 18:29)
     
    R

    Ralph N

    Well-Known Member
    FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE:

    Luke 19:27
    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring them here, and slay them before me."

    Luke 12:49
    "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

    Matthew 10:34
    " Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

    2 Peter 2:12
    "These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

    John 2:15
    [Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

    Matthew 10:34
    " Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

    Luke 22:36,38
    [Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

    Matthew 10:35
    35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

    Luke 12:50-53
    50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    Revelation 2:22-23
    "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

    FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    Now kill all the boys (in Midian). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Judges 21:10-12
    10So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

    1 Samuel 6:19
    And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

    Psalms 137:8-9
    O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

    Psalms 139:19-22:
    "Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

    Hosea 13:16
    "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

    Deuteronomy 17:2-5
    If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die.

    Judges 1:4-6
    "The LORD delivered the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand. ...
    But Adonibezek fled; and they pursued after him, and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and his great toes." --

    Ezekiel 23:25-34
    And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears. ... Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt ... pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. --

    I accept it is wrong in my book.. Do you accept your wrong?

    I am all for Jesus ONLY.. do you?
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    "Let there be no compulsion in religion" (Holy Quran 2:256)

    "Let those who will believe, and let those who will disbelieve" (Holy Quran 18:29)
    I am sure thats why none of exmuslim friends hav come out to their entourage
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I accept it is wrong in my book.. Do you accept your wrong?

    I am all for Jesus ONLY.. do you?
    Hahaha... You sound very silly! If its wrong in your book, then what Jesus only do you want to follow? An imaginary one or one invented by your own whims and caprices?

    I am telling you if you love Jesus, come to my book. We love Jesus because the Quran obliges us to. No Muslim can be a Muslim if he doesn't love Jesus. And we all do because we are enjoined to in the Holy Quran.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Yallah bigots, I'm done.

    I would have loved to have a thread called: "The True Horror of Christianity"

    unfortunately i cannot make that initiative. I am constrained by time. That is why it took me long to contribute on this thread. And i believe the little i have contributed suffices for now. Maybe someone else will help with creating a parallel thread.

    yalla bigots! Bye bye!!
     
    SeaAb

    SeaAb

    Legendary Member
    Staff member
    Super Penguin
    @Rachel Corrie Why don't you create a new thread about your prophet Mohammad. I think it's a good idea for you to share with everyone why you and Muslims in general think he was a good man. You can share verified stories about his life and correct some of the misconceptions other people might have about him.

    Of course, you have to prepared for an onslaught of accusations about his character and how he lead his life. Even if you feel like it's useless and won't change anyone's mind on the forum, you should consider the 1000s of other guests lurking in the background.

    From my end, I will help with the moderation of the thread and will keep it on point - prophet Mohammad only.

    What do you think?
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The last issue I'd shed light on before I exit this thread: the age of Aisha as at when the Prophet Muhammad married her. This is a favorite topic of evangelicals and Christian radicals and islamophobes generally and will hardly not come up in any islamophobic gathering.

    based on my research, the following points i concluded:

    1. Aisha was anything between the ages of 17 to 21 years old according to historical sources like Tabari, not hadith sources.

    2. Aisha was married to Jubeir Ibn Motem before her marriage to the Prophet. Her marriage had to be dissolved and divorce to occur before she could marry the Prophet.

    3. The mother of Jesus, Mary was 12 years old when she was given to Joseph. You cannot judge the past and its cultural practices with our own present standards.

    4. The term "pedophile" is a recent addition in the English dictionary. The age of consent in Europe and america, up until last century used to be as low as 10. Just yesterday, a lawmaker in the USA asked for the age of consent to be dropped to 10.

    5. Islam proposes mental, physical and emotional maturity before marriage after the age of puberty.

    6. The reason for deflating the age of Aisha as at the time the Prophet married her, and inflating the age of Sayyida Khadija as at the time of marriage is based on sectarian sympathies. Due to the atrocities committed by Aisha in the battle of Jamal in particular, deflating her age and making her the innocent baby the Prophet married will prop up her image.

    Since Shia are respectful and more loving of Sayyidah Khadija, whom according to Aisha herself she was jealous of Sayyida Khadijah, the former has been made an old senile woman with red gums. And Aisha was elevated to the position of "favorite wife". While according to a hadith, Aisha felt so much jealous of Sayyida Khadija, the only wife to bore the Prophet children, even after the death of the former. It was evident who the favorite wife was. The truth is as at the time of marriage, the Prophet and Sayyida Khadijah were around the same age. She wasnt older than him twice his age.
    Can we stop using the word Islamophobe?
    There's nothing wrong or shameful about hating a religion that subjugates women and prescribes the death penalty for homosexuals and apostates.
    On the contrary, it's an indicator of a strong moral character that refuses unjustice and inequality.
    Even a big portion of Muslims disagrees with parts of the Quran and Hadith.

    In 100 years from now, Islam will have vanished completely and history will remember it as one of the evil cults that hindered the progress of Middle Eastern societies.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Yallah bigots, I'm done.

    I would have loved to have a thread called: "The True Horror of Christianity"

    unfortunately i cannot make that initiative. I am constrained by time. That is why it took me long to contribute on this thread. And i believe the little i have contributed suffices for now. Maybe someone else will help with creating a parallel thread.

    yalla bigots! Bye bye!!
    A more fitting title would be "The True Horrors of the Church".

    Horrors committed in the name of Christianity are never in line with the teachings of Jesus.
     
    Apostate

    Apostate

    Your will, my hands.
    Orange Room Supporter
    @Nasser

    It is very important to differentiate between what the religion says and what the adherents do or practice.

    I'd be presenting to you some facts.
    two world wars, transatlantic slave trade, 30 years war, 100 years war, inquisition, colonization and great masacres to crush conquered peoples (e.g. the war of independence in Algeria against the French who were chopping off heads Daesh style), forced conversions in the Philippines and Mozambique, invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan vis a vis the crusades of George bush, shootings in the united states frequently, Lebanese civil war and christian militias and killings on ID, the IRA, the Lord's Resistance Army, the SPLA etc are all peaceful.

    it is naive and brainwashed people like you that the extremist Christians use to proselytize. If you want to mistake the advancement of Europe starting with the Renaissance as "Christianity" or "christian modernism", you are wrong. Europe is secular and anti religion largely, if not mostly. In Italy, they recently were arguing if it is lawful to have a crucifix in a classroom. These are Christians, in the heart of western Christianity, disagreeing on hanging a crucifix in school. In the United States, they disagree if students should pray in schools. Imagine if these disagreements were in Lebanon. Ma kenna khlosna min ghiniyet "Christian rights" w "dhimmitude".
    First all of, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to at least provide your point of view, which is appreciated.

    Secondly, I was talking about modern day interpretations of christian communities and their behavior, not countries too... which more or less isn't constituting any large scale atrocities. Nobody would deny the atrocities committed by christians throughout the ages, which is why I stated in my original post in this thread the following:

    I don’t want to discuss Abrahamic religions in their original forms as they were ‘revealed’ thousands of years ago, as that doesn’t concern me and is not related to this topic.

    What I would like to point out in this discussion is the religious forms as they are applied in our current times.
    Thirdly,

    @Nasser

    It is very important to differentiate between what the religion says and what the adherents do or practice.

    I'd be presenting to you some facts.
    What practices are that much different from what the religion says? What are the views of islamic communities on homosexuals, liberties etc.. etc.. it is pretty obvious.

    You also stated verses from Quran, thing is in Quran you can find whatever you want. Peaceful verses, violent verses, defense verses, aggressive verses (Like the ones I stated in my original post). And what is important to take note of, is the time frame of which the verses were revealed, as all 'scholars' agree that new verses replace the effect of old verses.
    Everything ISIS did, you could find explanations for it in the Quran or Hadith(which are the 2 sources of regulations in Islam). Pretty scary.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    First all of, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to at least provide your point of view, which is appreciated.

    Secondly, I was talking about modern day interpretations of christian communities and their behavior, not countries too... which more or less isn't constituting any large scale atrocities. Nobody would deny the atrocities committed by christians throughout the ages, which is why I stated in my original post in this thread the following:

    Thirdly,

    What practices are that much different from what the religion says? What are the views of islamic communities on homosexuals, liberties etc.. etc.. it is pretty obvious.

    You also stated verses from Quran, thing is in Quran you can find whatever you want. Peaceful verses, violent verses, defense verses, aggressive verses (Like the ones I stated in my original post). And what is important to take note of, is the time frame of which the verses were revealed, as all 'scholars' agree that new verses replace the effect of old verses.
    Everything ISIS did, you could find explanations for it in the Quran or Hadith(which are the 2 sources of regulations in Islam). Pretty scary.
    I hope you took time to read through my posts.

    I presented two articles which explain those "scary verses", even the ones you specifically mentioned.

    ISIS and wahhabis/salafists generally, just like their islamophobic counterparts, refuse to understand that these verses have context (place and time and reason for their revelations). They, on the other hand take everything literal. That's your problem.

    Like when it comes to illicit sex, whether gay or straight, I am not concerned with what Muslims think or do. I am concerned with what the religion says. And I can read. Sex outside marriage doesn't carry the death penalty. Homosexuality is seen as sinful just as adultery. But you need four witnesses. That almost renders the mission to "punish" for sex outside marriage very difficult, if not impossible. You will actually be committing obscenity and public display of indecency to be caught by four witnesses having sex than actually being punished for having sex itself.

    This makes it all clear how forbearing the God of the Quran is and more or less making a statement like this: that thing is wrong, but it is not for you to judge. However, if you are reckless to be caught, then there is punishment for it. If you are to do it, I have made it hard for you to be caught. Yet still, He is merciful and forgiving if you repent and seek His forgiveness. Islam is all about God conscientiousness than actual rituals of worship.

    "Recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater. And Allah knows that which you do." (29:45)

    It is similar to verse 4:34 about "beating women". Islam recognizes the man as the head of the family, but nonetheless the woman is a partner that provides succour to the man and the man to the woman. A verse says "He has placed mercy among the husband and wife". Since the man is the head, he has full authority like the president has absolute powers. Nonetheless there is balance of power and caution, just like the judiciary and the legislative give caution. The verse went on to give cautions as to when and how a man can beat his wife. It has to be for a shameful did or relating to unfaithfulness. It says first, warn them. Then, separate beds, and finally, strike them. This is more or less an indication of restraining the man. How many non-Muslim men will have the strength to restrain themselves if perchance they find their wives committing acts of infidelity? Very few. What of preventing divorce? Divorce is not an option in that verse if we to interpret the word " adribuhonna" to mean "beat" instead of "leave or depart". There is the interpretation that the word " adriboohunna" means "fleeing away" or separation, going by other usage of the same word in the Quran that means to depart. That is an alternative interpretation and this is built on the fact that the Prophet has been reported to say in an authentic hadith that the worse man is the one who beats his wife. Pls so not give me a hadith narrated from Aisha that the Prophet pushed her. I do not accept any hadith from her as genuine. Adult breastfeeding and so many weird, bizarre and shameful narrations comes from her. Reporting an incident is one thing, and the genuineness of that incident and its reporters is another. That's the entire problem with hadith narrations.

    As far as I am concerned about homosexuality, (you seem very fixated on the topic making me wonder if you are actually gay), sex in Islam is seen as a tool for procreation. And mankind was placed on earth both according to Islam and Christianity to multiply. That is a divine purpose. If that divine purpose is obstructed, then whatever is obstructing it becomes a sin. But the problem is this: people tend to focus so much on homosexuality than on poverty for example. Many dont get married or procreate because of poverty. Poverty thus obstructs procreation. If poverty is treated with as much disdain as homosexuality, mankind will be in much better situation, both in terms of procreation and providing high standard of living for those already born and suffering. Cultural stigma and habits are what have made homosexuality to be ferociously opposed to. And of course, the recent wave of LGBT campaigns. LGBT campaigns have succeeded in some areas, while it has failed in other areas and creates more opposition. This issue of homosexuality has always been existing but took more prominent standing of recent.

    Homosexuality maybe natural as a result of biological factors, something which would mean there are different kinds of homosexuality vis a vis the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. There are people who are born thay way, who may have been nurtured into that way or who may have chosen that way or a combination. It is a very complex and delicate topic. Science itself has not provided all the answers as to the causes of homosexuality. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah didn't only commit homosexuality but also banditry. Then, the angels who were Lot's guests were about to be raped. They wanted to commit rape. That was the final straw that broke the camel's back and they were punished and Lot was asked to leave so the punishment will descend. According to the Quran, God does not punish a people while a prophet lives among them. Has anyone thought of the fact that those people may not have had a biological tendency as some people do today to sleep with the same sex? Its possible. I believe God is best to judge. I dont judge people on this. But please do not rob it on people's faces that you're gay and you want to be kissing your boyfriend in public etc. The push by LGBT campaigners have made the homophobes to equally push against them. I prefer a middle path on this issue where none is condemned and none is offended.

    I am taking my time to reply to you because I feel you have genuine inquiries instead of trying to create needless arguments. The facts can be found online but sometimes people need to talk to others. I believe that's your case. Do not abuse the privilege. The case of others, and the moderator asking me to open a thread as to why I think the Prophet was a good man are laughable. Silly. Maybe the mod needs someone to increase forum traffic. And I honestly don't have the time to. Whatever you need to know can be found online. At least, to a large extent, except if you need to talk to someone.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    Bro @Nasser let me ask you this.. If the majority of Muslims today adopted let say secuarlism but at the same time they went on to kill millions and bombarded civilians let it be women or children and went to invade many countries killing their natives in the name of being civilized etc do you believe that they would be better for that? would that be a lesser of a horror for you?

    Don't let the media play with your mind.. if you want to quote the holy Quran you would have to read the whole Quran with an open heart and by being truthful and by seeking the truth. don't be like those who take one word and throw all the other words away just so they can attack it. Try listening to it try to understand it then come tell us about it.

    I feel that you are a good and sincere person reading some of your past posts and I hope you get all the answers you are seeking but again do not let the western lifestyle, its modernity or its technologies fool you most of the horror of our modern times is coming from this same lifestyle..

    A lifestyle that want to uproot the whole world from the organic lifestyle... it is easy to fall in love with babylon the devil has a certain deceiving beauty that will seduce you and this is a struggle that we all have to deal with..
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE:

    Luke 19:27
    "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring them here, and slay them before me."

    Luke 12:49
    "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

    Matthew 10:34
    " Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

    2 Peter 2:12
    "These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

    John 2:15
    [Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

    Matthew 10:34
    " Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

    Luke 22:36,38
    [Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

    Matthew 10:35
    35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—

    Luke 12:50-53
    50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

    Revelation 2:22-23
    "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

    FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE:

    Numbers 31:17-18
    Now kill all the boys (in Midian). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    Judges 21:10-12
    10So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.” 12They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan.

    1 Samuel 6:19
    And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

    Psalms 137:8-9
    O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

    Psalms 139:19-22:
    "Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."

    Hosea 13:16
    "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

    Deuteronomy 17:2-5
    If there be found among you , that , hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them , Then shalt thou , tone them with stones, till they die.

    Judges 1:4-6
    "The LORD delivered the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand. ...
    But Adonibezek fled; and they pursued after him, and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and his great toes." --

    Ezekiel 23:25-34
    And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears. ... Thou shalt even drink it and suck it out, and thou shalt ... pluck off thine own breasts: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. --
    If you put these in context you will realize that they are figures of speech. I'm not going to bother explaining each and every one, but to give you one example, when Jesus talks about a sword, he means it metaphorically: he knew that what he preached would create a divide between good and evil, and that those who embrace evil would persecute those who follow him. The sword he is talking about is a spiritual one. If he meant a real sword, he would have carried one, and he would have turned his disciples into a small army, instead of allowing his enemies to crucify him.
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    There is nothing lazier than copy pasting stuff from an anti-Christian website without attempting to understand what you are reading.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    I hope you took time to read through my posts.

    The case of others, and the moderator asking me to open a thread as to why I think the Prophet was a good man are laughable. Silly. Maybe the mod needs someone to increase forum traffic. And I honestly don't have the time to. Whatever you need to know can be found online. At least, to a large extent, except if you need to talk to someone.
    @SeaAb you sly weasel!! Did you really try to trick him into openning that thread just in order to increase forum traffic??

    The seeds of capitalism are strong with this one!
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I accept it is wrong in my book.. Do you accept your wrong?

    I am all for Jesus ONLY.. do you?
    It's not wrong, dear. Read my reply to @Rachel Corrie .

    Many of us Christians grow up only learning the basics of our religion, so we don't know what to answer when people confront us with such verses. But I assure you there is nothing in those verses that contradicts our values, if you put them in context.
     
    O Brother

    O Brother

    Legendary Member
    If you put these in context you will realize that they are figures of speech. I'm not going to bother explaining each and every one, but to give you one example, when Jesus talks about a sword, he means it metaphorically: he knew that what he preached would create a divide between good and evil, and that those who embrace evil would persecute those who follow him. The sword he is talking about is a spiritual one. If he meant a real sword, he would have carried one, and he would have turned his disciples into a small army, instead of allowing his enemies to crucify him.
    There is not shame in holding a sword and using it in a just cause.. Didn't God send prophets who were great warriors according to your own faith? So why are you now taking distance from the sword like it is something to feel ashamed for?

    In this world there is evil and someone has to fight it with the sword! I would love to see Jesus with the Sword fighting against all these corruptions we face today! Jesus would be a great warrior fighting for a truly just cause! And there is no shame in that!
     
    Indie

    Indie

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    There is not shame in holding a sword and using it in a just cause.. Didn't God send prophets who were great warriors according to your own faith? So why are you now taking distance from the sword like it is something to feel ashamed for?

    In this world there is evil and someone has to fight it with the sword! I would love to see Jesus with the Sword fighting against all these corruptions we face today! Jesus would be a great warrior fighting for a truly just cause! And there is no shame in that!
    It is not about shame. It is about consistency. Jesus preached that we must love our enemies, because only love can conquer evil.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    There is not shame in holding a sword and using it in a just cause.. Didn't God send prophets who were great warriors according to your own faith? So why are you now taking distance from the sword like it is something to feel ashamed for?

    In this world there is evil and someone has to fight it with the sword! I would love to see Jesus with the Sword fighting against all these corruptions we face today! Jesus would be a great warrior fighting for a truly just cause! And there is no shame in that!
    we have established with Christ that problems do not get solved by the sword, people can win with the sword all while being on the wrong side, it does not serve veracity with anything. winning a battle and exterminating enemies mean nothing as far as truth is concerned. you can win a thousand battles and be on the wrong side, just as well as you could lose a thousand battles while you are on the right side.

    we have learned instead that Truth does not need to be imposed with strength, but rather with understanding. people will always struggle with it, because it is far from easy to grasp, but the answer remains the same, violence begets violence, and those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
     
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    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    @Nasser, here is the kicker, both our friends @Rachel Corrie and @Noborders are trying to point out your wrong perception of peaceful islam, yet they each subscribe to a school of islam that completely opposes the other, oftentimes with extreme violence. the majority of wahhabis/salafis consider shias to be ripe kuffars in an ever open season.
     
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