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The Vatican, the Catholic And Christians Churches

Is the Vatican under Pope Francis

  • Too much interfering in politics

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Too much leftist

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Too much anti capitalist

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Is doing a great job

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Is doing a Middle job

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Is doing a bad job

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Is defending the poor and the environment

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • It’s position on immigration negative

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • It’s position on immigration positive

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • The pope is a saint in his private life

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • The pope is an inspirational figure

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Pope Francis while a saintly figure is wrong in his opposition to populist leaders like Trump or Lig

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • It’s a scandal the Pope refuse to receive Populist Government in Italy

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Pope refusal of Abortions is great

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • Pope acceptance not to condemn people and to give second chances even for abortions supporters is ??

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
2 Timothy 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

John 15:18
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.

1 Peter 4:12-14
Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.

Matthew 5:44
But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Matthew 5:10
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:10
For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Luke 6:22
“Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!

1 Peter 3:17
For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

Matthew 5:10-12
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Peter 3:14
But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,

1 John 3:13
Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you.

1 Peter 3:16
Having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

John 15:20
Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.

John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in that name.

Acts 14:22
Strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 4:19
Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.

John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Did Jesus wear a gold cross and a golden crown and golden staff and use golden cups when he was preaching? Did he own land and companies and businesses ? Was he one of the richest institutions on the planet?
 
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joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
Oh yes...they can do that until there isn't a penny left, and children will keep being conceived out of wedlock, and mothers will keep wanting abortions...because this is a world full of evil and fallen, arrogant people, who spit on morals and keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, while demanding that the very people who warned them about the consequences of their actions fix the messes they create. Preposterous and empty arguments!
Not at all. Let the church put its money where its mouth is. Help children.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Did Jesus wear a gold cross and a golden crown and golden staff and use golden cups when he was preaching? Did he own land and companies and businesses ? Was he one of the richest institutions on the planet?

Not at all. Let the church put its money where its mouth is. Help children.

First of all, this is a stinky old red herring. But I'll address it anyway, and then I'll tell you why it's a red herring.

Most of the churches and cathedrals in the world were built with donations from the Christian faithful, who were happy to contribute towards the building of houses of worship.

You have no issues when people spend billions in glitzy glamour and tasteless bling for their secular "gods," but it's an issue when Christians want to show appreciation towards their God and saviour by creating beautiful spaces and art in His honour?

Furthermore, the Catholic church was, historically, one of the biggest patrons of the arts. By commissioning works for churches and cathedrals, the biggest Western artists of all time were able to earn a living and to contribute to Western culture...one of the richest the world has ever known. Not to mention, all the unknown artisans who were employed for their craft.

You want the Church to sell all that people have laboured on and donated for the sake of God? Not only would it be an insult to these people, but who would benefit? Manipulative art speculators, collectors, and gallery owners who would end up enriching themselves and keeping the art in private collections?

So instead of regular people having access to all that culture and inspiration, it would become the plaything of the rich?

Do you realize how much it costs to keep these places of worship open for the billions of Christians around the world who attend them?

My own community's church, which is very small and devoid of riches, needs $10 000 a month just for the utility bills!!! Who do you think pays for that? Who pays for our priest to eat and be clothed? We're not even talking about other expenses like the roof suddenly leaking, or the snow removal from the parking lot, or........or......or....

Now multiply these expenses with the number of parishes throughout the world!

And still...still...the Catholic church runs countless charities, and helps countless people!

Yes, our faith is about being charitable and upholding moral values, but it is also about beauty. Why should only evil temptations be wrapped in beauty? Beauty, after all is part of God and His creation. And, since we are made in His image, we appreciate beauty. There is no shame in that!

Contrary to what your argument implies, nothing in the church belongs to individuals. Everything belongs to the community! When we walk in a beautiful church, and see beautiful art, and hear beautiful gospel music, and the mass is a beautiful rite, for a moment, we forget about the ugliness and evil in the world. We feel closer to God and to heaven. And anyone can walk into a Church, rich or poor!

All that aside, the argument is even more laughable in the context you present it. You actually think that if the Church got rid of their last penny, it would solve world poverty and no woman would get pregnant out of wedlock? These problems have been around long before Christianity, and they would be around even if you could manage to destroy the Catholic church. That's because these problems are the result of ignorant, arrogant, and evil human deeds!

So stop arguing like a neo-marxist social justice warrior and blaming your / human problems on the church to avoid taking responsibility for them.

It is the height of hypocrisy to refuse the Church's teachings on chastity (which are there to protect us from issues like women feeling compelled to get abortions), then blaming that same Church when those issues arise!
 

Thawra # Furoshima

Well-Known Member
Did Jesus wear a gold cross and a golden crown and golden staff and use golden cups when he was preaching? Did he own land and companies and businesses ? Was he one of the richest institutions on the planet?
Who is wearing Gold staff stop lying
Perhaps in Lebanon , Clergy is partially corrupted
Pope Francis wore wood cross
He live in a small suite ( he left the 16 room of the popes)
He has a car worth 4000 euros
 
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Thawra # Furoshima

Well-Known Member
First of all, this is a stinky old red herring. But I'll address it anyway, and then I'll tell you why it's a red herring.

Most of the churches and cathedrals in the world were built with donations from the Christian faithful, who were happy to contribute towards the building of houses of worship.

You have no issues when people spend billions in glitzy glamour and tasteless bling for their secular "gods," but it's an issue when Christians want to show appreciation towards their God and saviour by creating beautiful spaces and art in His honour?

Furthermore, the Catholic church was, historically, one of the biggest patrons of the arts. By commissioning works for churches and cathedrals, the biggest Western artists of all time were able to earn a living and to contribute to Western culture...one of the richest the world has ever known. Not to mention, all the unknown artisans who were employed for their craft.

You want the Church to sell all that people have laboured on and donated for the sake of God? Not only would it be an insult to these people, but who would benefit? Manipulative art speculators, collectors, and gallery owners who would end up enriching themselves and keeping the art in private collections?

So instead of regular people having access to all that culture and inspiration, it would become the plaything of the rich?

Do you realize how much it costs to keep these places of worship open for the billions of Christians around the world who attend them?

My own community's church, which is very small and devoid of riches, needs $10 000 a month just for the utility bills!!! Who do you think pays for that? Who pays for our priest to eat and be clothed? We're not even talking about other expenses like the roof suddenly leaking, or the snow removal from the parking lot, or........or......or....

Now multiply these expenses with the number of parishes throughout the world!

And still...still...the Catholic church runs countless charities, and helps countless people!

Yes, our faith is about being charitable and upholding moral values, but it is also about beauty. Why should only evil temptations be wrapped in beauty? Beauty, after all is part of God and His creation. And, since we are made in His image, we appreciate beauty. There is no shame in that!

Contrary to what your argument implies, nothing in the church belongs to individuals. Everything belongs to the community! When we walk in a beautiful church, and see beautiful art, and hear beautiful gospel music, and the mass is a beautiful rite, for a moment, we forget about the ugliness and evil in the world. We feel closer to God and to heaven. And anyone can walk into a Church, rich or poor!

All that aside, the argument is even more laughable in the context you present it. You actually think that if the Church got rid of their last penny, it would solve world poverty and no woman would get pregnant out of wedlock? These problems have been around long before Christianity, and they would be around even if you could manage to destroy the Catholic church. That's because these problems are the result of ignorant, arrogant, and evil human deeds!

So stop arguing like a neo-marxist social justice warrior and blaming your / human problems on the church to avoid taking responsibility for them.

It is the height of hypocrisy to refuse the Church's teachings on chastity (which are there to protect us from issues like women feeling compelled to get abortions), then blaming that same Church when those issues arise!
I will add to the wise words of my Lady the most accomplished person on this forum.
Michel Angelo
Leonardo di Vinci
Raphael
Gothic Cathedrals
Bach
Mozart
Beethoven
Titian
Rubens
Vesquavez
All the greatest painters , Artists, Musicans all sponsored by the Church ( Specially the Vatican)to different degrees
The Church Charitable Institutions are helping hundreds of millions of people all over the World.
 

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
An abortion should only be legal or done if the baby is a harm to the mother's health and due to it she will die. I don't see why a lady gets pregnant and she is allowed to abort the child. She should have been more careful as to not getting pregnant. It is not our right to take life away from anyone especially an innocent life that is inside the woman.
 

butters

Well-Known Member
I don't see why a lady gets pregnant and she is allowed to abort the child. She should have been more careful as to not getting pregnant.
Let me take a few guesses here:

• You're not a woman.
• You've never been raped.
• You have no problem with society rejecting you as a victim of a heinous crime, and by extension you don't mind being threatened and silenced.
• You're not bothered by legally losing control of your own body.
• You're a rich person and you have no problem eating up the massive lifetime costs of an unplanned offspring.

So, which is it?

And just out of curiosity: how old are you? You don't have to answer this question if you care about protecting your privacy.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Let me take a few guesses here:

• You're not a woman.
• You've never been raped.
• You have no problem with society rejecting you as a victim of a heinous crime, and by extension you don't mind being threatened and silenced.
• You're not bothered by legally losing control of your own body.
• You're a rich person and you have no problem eating up the massive lifetime costs of an unplanned offspring.

So, which is it?

And just out of curiosity: how old are you? You don't have to answer this question if you care about protecting your privacy.

Let me guess. You're not a woman either.

And you don't give a damn about any of the points above. You just want the ability to get rid of your responsibilities after you're done using women for sex.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Let me take a few guesses here:

• You're not a woman.
• You've never been raped.
• You have no problem with society rejecting you as a victim of a heinous crime, and by extension you don't mind being threatened and silenced.
• You're not bothered by legally losing control of your own body.
• You're a rich person and you have no problem eating up the massive lifetime costs of an unplanned offspring.

So, which is it?

And just out of curiosity: how old are you? You don't have to answer this question if you care about protecting your privacy.
Yes because everyone here with the opposite pov condones rape and wants to prevent raped women from aborting.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Yes because everyone here with the opposite pov condones rape and wants to prevent raped women from aborting.

Obviously. Because most of the millions of abortions that take place every year are due to rape, and not an irresponsible sexual attitude, or a selfish outlook on life.
 

Thawra # Furoshima

Well-Known Member
Let me guess. You're not a woman either.

And you don't give a damn about any of the points above. You just want the ability to get rid of your responsibilities after you're done using women for sex.
Obviously. Because most of the millions of abortions that take place every year are due to rape, and not an irresponsible sexual attitude, or a selfish outlook on life.
Wisest words from the Wisest Lady
 

butters

Well-Known Member
@Indie: You just hand-waved serious social and women's rights issues, and downplayed violence against women in Lebanon and even worldwide, all in favour of a baseless accusation and a personal attack. You operate exactly like a rape apologist. You even dare to pretend to advocate for women's rights, while having the nerve to play victim in a hijacking conspiracy. You're so thoroughly selfish and dishonest, you're not even worth debating. You should be ashamed of yourself, and you owe all your sisters whom have suffered and still suffer under real rapists and are still being denied help because of selfish and arrogant people in power like yourself a very deep and sincere apology.

@Iron Maiden: Learn to read. I neither said nor think that Aoune32! condones rape, and strangely enough it wasn't even the only point I brought up, but cherry-picking and straw men are too convenient for you. I was merely offering him perspective which he obviously lacked. Shit, you're talking to the wrong person anyway. Why don't you ask Indie if she supports abortion rights for women rape victims instead. But you already know the answer, and you simply felt the urge to troll. What a ****ing shame.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
@Indie: You just hand-waved serious social and women's rights issues, and downplayed violence against women in Lebanon and even worldwide, all in favour of a baseless accusation and a personal attack. You operate exactly like a rape apologist. You even dare to pretend to advocate for women's rights, while having the nerve to play victim in a hijacking conspiracy. You're so thoroughly selfish and dishonest, you're not even worth debating. You should be ashamed of yourself, and you owe all your sisters whom have suffered and still suffer under real rapists and are still being denied help because of selfish and arrogant people in power like yourself a very deep and sincere apology.

@Iron Maiden: Learn to read. I neither said nor think that Aoune32! condones rape, and strangely enough it wasn't even the only point I brought up, but cherry-picking and straw men are too convenient for you. I was merely offering him perspective which he obviously lacked. Shit, you're talking to the wrong person anyway. Why don't you ask Indie if she supports abortion rights for women rape victims instead. But you already know the answer, and you simply felt the urge to troll. What a ****ing shame.

a new angry episode of yet another misguided SJW, glad to witness the signature breakdown whenever pressed for rational arguments.
 
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