The Way to Building a Secular Lebanon and Secular Constitution and System

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Again,
Those clauses are also written in the Egyptian constitution. How can you guarantee that my fate won’t end up like the Copts in Egypt ?
Writing then Enforcing ?
Who can i trust enforcing those wonderful words written on paper ?

Sorry but, Federalism is the right recipe for Lebanon.
If not, the current mode gives me more long term peace of mind than secularism.


You say my plan and wish is for Christians dominating the Levant,
If what you’re saying is true, i wouldn’t be asking for federalism.

Federalism will guarantee more division and petty wars for territory. Besides, the muslim majority would never go for it...

You cannot avoid it, the clauses suggested by the OP are the only way to go. Don't blame the added clauses, blame the people. You're one of them. So don't put it all on the muslims.
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Federalism will guarantee more division and petty wars for territory. Besides, the muslim majority would never go for it...

You cannot avoid it, the clauses suggested by the OP are only way to go. Don't blame the added clauses, blame the people.

Federalism will acknowledge everyone’s right and territory. Christians will know how to defend their territory but first it needs to be acknowledged.

You said it, a muslim majority would never go for it thus refusing to acknowledge my rights and existance.

How do you expect me to accept secularism and give them majority in Parliament no strings attached ?
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Federalism will acknowledge everyone’s right and territory. Christians will know how to defend their territory but first it needs to be acknowledged.

You said it, a muslim majority would never go for it thus refusing to acknowledge my rights and existance.

How do you expect me to accept secularism and give them majority in Parliament no strings attached ?

So already you're acknowledging that there will be wars for territory. We all know how the civil war turned out... It was not in favor of the christians if you recall.

The only thing I'm acknowledging is that sectarianism and religion need to be neutralized. It starts with secularism.
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So already you're acknowledging that there will be wars for territory. We all know how the civil war turned out... It was not in favor of the christians if you recall.

The only thing I'm acknowledging is that sectarianism and religion need to be neutralized. It starts with secularism.

Yes i expect Muslims invading Christian territory
But at least Christians will be running that territory and will be able to defend.

In Secularism we’re giving our rights to defend ourselves away and be under the mercy of the state.
Thus getting discriminated as the copts in Egypt is a very plausible scenario.

I agree with what you said last !
Once religion is abolished including military presense endorsing Islamic ideologies then secularism becomes valid in Lebanon.
Until then i don’t think it’ll work the way it is intended to be.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Yes i expect Muslims invading Christian territory
But at least Christians will be running that territory and will be able to defend.

In Secularism we’re giving our rights to defend ourselves away and be under the mercy of the state.
Thus being discriminated as the copts in Egypt is a very plausible scenario.

I agree with what you said last !
Once religion is abolished including military presense endorsing Islamic ideologies then secularism becomes valid in Lebanon.
Until then i don’t think it’ll work the way it is intended to be.

You're more exposed in a sectarian system because it polarizes the country more, and thus, heightens religious extremism. There's nothing stopping muslims now from ransacking christian towns.
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You're more exposed in a sectarian system because it polarizes the country more, and thus, heightens religious extremism. There's nothing stopping muslims now from ransacking christian towns.

Not true
The army is more than capable to maintain order.
Even if it splits, we’ll still have a significant armed force that can defend and we will join them instantly.
The army general commander is a Christian
The president is the commander in chief of the armed forces, Thanks to the current constitution.
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The same as homosexuality. This is my own opinion. After all different secular countries have different outlook on things and laws.

Both homosexuality and polygamy will be decriminalized, but have no legal status. Demo criminalized but not legalized. It is kind of a neutral outlook. Government should be sin-blind.

For example, gay unions do not have legal status. However, if a citizen chooses that path, he would not be discriminated against but also his union would not be recognized under the law. Discriminating against a Lebanese on any basis, including sexual preference should be against the law. Gay union or marriage is a privilege that can be campaigned for and later be granted or not granted.

As for polygamy, the law will regard only the first registered wedding. Subsequent wives cannot be married legally in a civil court or under common law.



This is a tribal practice. It is simply murder. Perpetrators would be killed for killing, if we continue having capital punishment, or they can face life imprisonment for murder.



A non issue in my opinion. Many so called Muslims drink. Even in their areas or in their homes. It should be a private choice and freedom granted to those who want to drink or deal with alcohol. If the people are truly holy and observant of their faith, they require no one to compel them to drink or not to drink. After all, we are taught "Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made manifest from falsehood". I have come across staunch Christians and atheists who do not drink. And ironically, I have come across Muslims who drink. They even stop praying under the excuse that they can't stop drinking "for now". We are not holy as a nation as we pretend to be. We have transformed religion into a vehicle to promote division and evil and not a vehicle to promote spirituality and virtue and charity. Personally, even if you drop me into an ocean of alcohol and cigarettes, I will NEVER drink or smoke. I even detest smoking more than drinking. I see them as unhealthy habits and expending to poison one's own health.

I like the way you think. You're more progressive than many Maronite members here who claim to be secular and open-minded. Keep it up.

You're a great ambassador of our community.
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I like the way you think. You're more progressive than many Maronite members here who claim to be secular and open-minded. Keep it up.

You're a great ambassador of our community.

Unfortunately, reality is different on the ground.
I also wish if the lebanese muslim majority think like @Rachel Corrie
However in reality they’re more like @Le منشار
 

flag-waver

Legendary Member
You're more exposed in a sectarian system because it polarizes the country more, and thus, heightens religious extremism. There's nothing stopping muslims now from ransacking christian towns.

Ransack?
Look buddy and understand mni7. We are not scared of anyone. We just want to build a country instead of 40k people going out every year. They don't want to live in peace we want to. We will not put our neck out and give them some bullshit secular system which henne they dont believe in and then they come and eat me. Aya secularism? The appointments in LU and the MOF are all
l shia based. They take out the christians and place shia instead. Let them show me one thing otherwise w ba3dena wehed bifaker b secularism. Other than that over 1.8 million dead christian bodies residing in lebanon. :)
 
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Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Not true
The army is more than capable to maintain order.
Even if it splits, we’ll still have a significant armed force that can defend and we will join them instantly.
The army general commander is a Christian
The president is the commander in chief of the armed forces, Thanks to the current constitution.

The army is majority muslim. So what would change under secularism, they'd still be a majority simply because there's more of them. The point I'm trying to make is the only thing stopping muslims from ransacking your homes are muslims themselves. If you think the president of Lebanon is your guardian angel/knight in shining armor, then you're living in Alice in Wonderland. You don't even have support from the west nor Israel. In fact, Israel would much rather model Lebanon after the GCC states with puppet leaders that can easily be controlled and manipulated. What of the christians in those states? The U.S./Israeli plan was to have Hariri acting that role... So how can Lebanese christians maintain federalism... Secularism delayed is progress delayed.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Ransack?
Look buddy and understand mni7. We are not scared of anyone. We just want to build a country instead of 40k people going out every year. They don't want to live in peace we want to. We will not put our neck out and give them some bullshit secular system which henne they dont believe in and then they come and eat me. Aya secularism? The appointments in LU and the MOF are all
l shia based. They take out the christians are place shia instead. Let them show me one thing otherwise w ba3dena wehed bifaker b secularism. Other than that over 1.8 million dead christian bodies residing in lebanon. :)

If HA wanted to ransack your homes, it would happen as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow and there's nothing you could do about it. The reason why it's not happening is because that's not what they're about. I don't support HA politically, only in their existence to counter Israel. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not want my country to be another Saudi emirate so that Israel can eliminate all their foes and the U.S has another puppet country in their pocket. Secularism would not eliminate HA immediately, but it would compromise it from the first day. Eventually, they will become extinct.
 

flag-waver

Legendary Member
If HA wanted to ransack your homes, it would happen as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow and there's nothing you could do about it. The reason why it's not happening is because that's not what they're about. I don't support HA politically, only in their existence to counter Israel. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not want my country to be another Saudi emirate so that Israel can eliminate all their foes and the U.S has another puppet country in their pocket. Secularism would not eliminate HA immediately, but it would compromise it from the first day. Eventually, they will become extinct.

La2 this is where you are wrong. There is plenty we can do about it. We have an Army and when the Army splits and it will the christians will join them. A christian resistance will be created immediately to defend our homes. You think that HA due to its arms Lebanon is a walk in the park for it it is not. Assad had Russian support. You want me to believe that Russian support will be given to HA to fight christians? Akide la2
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
La2 this is where you are wrong. There is plenty we can do about it. We have an Army and when the Army splits and it will the christians will join them. A christian resistance will be created immediately to defend our homes. You think that HA due to its arms Lebanon is a walk in the park for it it is not. Assad had Russian support. You want me to believe that Russian support will be given to HA to fight christians? Akide la2

So then, you'll still have the army after secularism and an ever weakened HA.
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
If HA wanted to ransack your homes, it would happen as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow and there's nothing you could do about it. The reason why it's not happening is because that's not what they're about. I don't support HA politically, only in their existence to counter Israel. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not want my country to be another Saudi emirate so that Israel can eliminate all their foes and the U.S has another puppet country in their pocket. Secularism would not eliminate HA immediately, but it would compromise it from the first day. Eventually, they will become extinct.

Yes, I don't get why Hizbullah is so demonized by some Christians. Their target has always been Israel and Wahhabism, not Christian presence in Lebanon.
I guess M14 Christians still hold a grudge because Hizbullah decimated Lahd's army and LFers used to be very close to SLA.
As for the majority of Sunnis, they are just filled with sectarian hate.

Notice, the ones who go on TV and spread propaganda about Hizbullah are actully bankrolled by Saudi Arabia. (Future, LF, Kataeb). Not surprising. They only repeat what Saudi Arabian leaders say.
 
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Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The army is majority muslim. So what would change under secularism, they'd still be a majority simply because there more of them. The point I'm trying to make is the only thing stopping muslims from ransacking your homes are muslims themselves. If you think the president of Lebanon is your guardian angel, knight in shining armor, then you're living in Alice in Wonderland. You don't even have support from the west nor Israel. In fact, Israel would much rather model Lebanon after the GCC states with puppet leaders that can easily be controlled and manipulated. What of the christians in those states? The U.S./Israeli plan was to have Hariri acting that role... So how can Lebanese christians maintain federalism... Secularism delayed is progress delayed.

I think differently,
Give us federalism and we will get external support.

The solid ties that our fellow countrymen built with Iran caused us to lose support.

Why do you think the US keeps supporting and funding our army ? -think about it.

Why Lebanon isn’t facing sanctions like Iran even though Hizballa runs the country and we border Israel and we threaten its security?
-also think about it
 

flag-waver

Legendary Member
Secularism is the biggest bullshit islamists asks for to wipe out christianity from the region. Look at Iraq. Shia and sunni and kurds militas everywhere and where are the christians? 1 million fled.
 
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