The Way to Building a Secular Lebanon and Secular Constitution and System

!Aoune32

Well-Known Member
Totally agree
Aoun and FPM accomplished a lot already.
However people are so blind to see...

They can be blind as much as they want :)
For example the Maronite mission in Australia is working hard. I registered both my kids in Lebanon and actually will be soon.
There is alot of work being done. The ministry of justice with the 55% being christians just a few days ago, the enrolment of more christians in the LAF. What we need now is for FPM to clean out the shia from the ministries they have. Everytime a shia gets out a christian one shia is out from the ministry that FPM has. An eye for an eye. Same what was done with WJ.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
saying what?
The christians dont want to live with muslims? la2 7abibe i think everyone is saying it aslan. we dont want to live with that society mate. enough is enough. the status quo will remain until something big happens. let it happen.

You sound like Hitler. Co-existence habibi. Repeat it before you go to bed like a mantra. Maybe it will sink in eventually.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Lek enough with this non sense
You clearly don’t live any Lebanon and not following what’s going on.
We’re struggling getting back what is our right as per the current -written- constitution already.
Ministry of finance is Shiaa property now.
yesterday, an ex-MP who happens to be Shiaa even got shots fired at his house because he expressed an opposing opinion.
We are forced to acknowledge the legitimacy of their resistance else no government is formed.
Nothing happens in the country without their consent already.
Berri threatned a coup because Libya was invited to an arab summit.

Secularism is handing them over the country on a silver platter and is off limits.

Only solution in Lebanon is Federalism.
No Federalism? Then the current system stays.

Rationally speaking, a christian minority should not have a monopoly on the presidency or how many seats they get in parliament. The whole system is rotten. Instead of transforming to a democracy, you want to go backwards to a system that will only increase sectarianism. Anyway, federalism is not feasible.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
Rationally speaking, a christian minority should not have a monopoly on the presidency or how many seats they get in parliament. The whole system is rotten. Instead of transforming to a democracy, you want to go backwards to a system that will only increase sectarianism. Anyway, federalism is not feasible.


So rationally speaking they should willingly become the next Iraqi Christians, that's what you're saying.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
That's a lot of bullshit in one thread.

I think polygamy should be allowed for both men and women. Monogamy is losing its allure day after day. The world is moving to accept polyamory as a viable life choice.

The West can be hypocritical at times. They're fine with the concept of swinging and open relationships, but they criminalize polygamy.
They have children out of wedlock from different fathers/mothers, but they reject polygamy. I think that's the epitome of hypocrisy to be honest.

Monogamy goes against human nature. There's a reason divorce rates are high.

As for honor killings, they are purely cultural, not religious. Proof is there are many Christians who were victims of honor killings.
Sabah's mother was killed by her own son because she was allegedly caught having an extramarital affair.
Her son wanted to save the family's honor.
Its called a post * ;)

Polyamory is not polygamy, grab that dictionary from under the sofa, then know that there is no polyamory, there’s a cuck and the guy frucking his wife. After that’s passed u should also know that monogamy is the only social contract able to preserve the rights if each partner, if som people rush into marriage so they can just finally fruck or leave mama’s house or for financial arrangements thats on them. I’d rather have a high divirce rate rather than 15 year ild gurls getting shipped to abou 3arsa for 5000$..

Think about the kids manifesto, step down from your pearly silver mansion once in a while look at all the shiit we’re peddling down here
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Rationally speaking, a christian minority should not have a monopoly on the presidency or how many seats they get in parliament. The whole system is rotten. Instead of transforming to a democracy, you want to go backwards to a system that will only increase sectarianism. Anyway, federalism is not feasible.
I see u still havent picked up that tolkien ?
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
Its called a post * ;)

Polyamory is not polygamy, grab that dictionary from under the sofa, then know that there is no polyamory, there’s a cuck and the guy frucking his wife. After that’s passed u should also know that monogamy is the only social contract able to preserve the rights if each partner, if som people rush into marriage so they can just finally fruck or leave mama’s house or for financial arrangements thats on them. I’d rather have a high divirce rate rather than 15 year ild gurls getting shipped to abou 3arsa for 5000$..

Think about the kids manifesto, step down from your pearly silver mansion once in a while look at all the shiit we’re peddling down here

I think polyamory works great when there are only n women and me. I am firmly entrenched in this belief don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise :)
 

Patriot

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Rationally speaking, a christian minority should not have a monopoly on the presidency or how many seats they get in parliament. The whole system is rotten. Instead of transforming to a democracy, you want to go backwards to a system that will only increase sectarianism. Anyway, federalism is not feasible.



So rationally speaking they should willingly become the next Iraqi Christians, that's what you're saying.

Yes, That is exactly what our friend is saying and rationally.
Honestly i feel like i’m talking to a wall, so i’m calling it a night.
 

joseph_lubnan

Legendary Member
by the way do not waste your time speaking about a secular Lebanon. The country is still made up of fiefdoms and clans, baddou shi 200 million years of evolution, and we will see after. in the mean time a mix of a sectarian and tribal council system is best and bezyede 3al qaba2el al lebneneyye.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
Yes, That is exactly what our friend is saying and rationally.
Honestly i feel like i’m talking to a wall, so i’m calling it a night.


We all know Christians only survived this far because still hold some powers, otherwise we'd be Assyrians 2.0. @Dynamite Joe is a Pan-Arabist, he's living in the past, Pan-Arabism is dead, there's only pan-Islamism now (not that the two ideologies are that different).
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
I've been saying this and all continue to say it. So called Lebanese Muslims are not any different from the rest of MENA Muslims, they are in fact worse.
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Its called a post * ;)

Polyamory is not polygamy, grab that dictionary from under the sofa, then know that there is no polyamory, there’s a cuck and the guy frucking his wife. After that’s passed u should also know that monogamy is the only social contract able to preserve the rights if each partner, if som people rush into marriage so they can just finally fruck or leave mama’s house or for financial arrangements thats on them. I’d rather have a high divirce rate rather than 15 year ild gurls getting shipped to abou 3arsa for 5000$..

Think about the kids manifesto, step down from your pearly silver mansion once in a while look at all the shiit we’re peddling down here

Trying to score a cheap point because I mistakenly called your post a thread? Don't flatter yourself.
Even kindergarten students at Al Rasoul El A3zam college know the difference between the two.

Also, I said I only support polygamy as long as women are allowed to marry multiple husbands too. The problem with Muslim polygamy is that men can marry a second wife without the first wife's consent. It's very discriminatory. (Another case of Muslim clerics twisting Mohamed's words to suit their agenda).

As for age of consent, it's not strictly due to religion. The marriageable age is 16 in many Western countries.
No one can stop a 70 year-old man from marrying a 16-year old woman in Scotland.
 

CK10452

New Member
It took Europeans centuries of social, cultural, religious and political development before they reached the stage where a secular democratic system of Government was viable in their countries.

The majority of Muslims in the Middle East/Arab world are still a long way off from reaching this level of development that would allow a successful secular system in their countries. In fact they seem to be developing backwards, not forwards... Countries like Egypt, Turkey and Iran were more progressive 50 years ago than they are now...

Dynamite Joe has the process backwards... first you require cultural change to happen and then a truly secular democratic system will follow. When the cultural change does happen in Lebanon (and I believe it will happen, but probably not within our lifetime) then everyone, Muslim and Christian, will be united in their call for a secular system. However, if you implement a secular system before cultural change occurs (like Dynamite Joe suggests), the system will be abused and you will eventually have an authoritarian style system like you do in every other Arab country. People, including those in power, will not become secular just because a piece of paper states they live in a secular system. What Dynamite Joe wants is far too risky to gamble the future of the last free Christian community in the Middle East/Arab world.

What I propose instead is to slowly reform the current system and encourage cultural change towards secularism. It will be a slow process but I believe Lebanon will get there in the end.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
It took Europeans centuries of social, cultural, religious and political development before they reached the stage where a secular democratic system of Government was viable in their countries.

The majority of Muslims in the Middle East/Arab world are still a long way off from reaching this level of development that would allow a successful secular system in their countries. In fact they seem to be developing backwards, not forwards... Countries like Egypt, Turkey and Iran were more progressive 50 years ago than they are now...

Dynamite Joe has the process backwards... first you require cultural change to happen and then a truly secular democratic system will follow. When the cultural change does happen in Lebanon (and I believe it will happen, but probably not within our lifetime) then everyone, Muslim and Christian, will be united in their call for a secular system. However, if you implement a secular system before cultural change occurs (like Dynamite Joe suggests), the system will be abused and you will eventually have an authoritarian style system like you do in every other Arab country. People, including those in power, will not become secular just because a piece of paper states they live in a secular system. What Dynamite Joe wants is far too risky to gamble the future of the last free Christian community in the Middle East/Arab world.

What I propose instead is to slowly reform the current system and encourage cultural change towards secularism. It will be a slow process but I believe Lebanon will get there in the end.

You put too much faith in terrorist sympathizers.
 

CK10452

New Member
Trying to score a cheap point because I mistakenly called your post a thread? Don't flatter yourself.
Even kindergarten students at Al Rasoul El A3zam college know the difference between the two.

Also, I said I only support polygamy as long as women are allowed to marry multiple husbands too. The problem with Muslim polygamy is that men can marry a second wife without the first wife's consent. It's very discriminatory. (Another case of Muslim clerics twisting Mohamed's words to suit their agenda).

As for age of consent, it's not strictly due to religion. The marriageable age is 16 in many Western countries.
No one can stop a 70 year-old man from marrying a 16-year old woman in Scotland.

I might be biased, but the Christian system for marriage and family is the best. One man and one women, with strict laws governing divorce. Not everyone will be happy in this system, but I believe it produces the best results for society and the best structure to raise children. The West is going down hill, demographically and socially, partly because of the destruction of the nuclear family. I pray Lebanese Christians, and Muslims for that matter, don't follow the West on this path.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
We all know Christians only survived this far because still hold some powers, otherwise we'd be Assyrians 2.0. @Dynamite Joe is a Pan-Arabist, he's living in the past, Pan-Arabism is dead, there's only pan-Islamism now (not that the two ideologies are that different).

It's the illusion of power. Christians don't really have power in Lebanon. They are just pawns between the shia and sunnis. I can argue, they would be more forceful as a voting block in a democracy.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
It's the illusion of power. Christians don't really have power in Lebanon. They are just pawns between the shia and sunnis. I can argue, they would be more forceful as a voting block in a democracy.

Sunnis looool? Sunnis are literally no competition for Christians. The only ones in the Christians' ways are the Shia [] who are holding the country captive. Sunnis lol
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
@Dynamite Joe like I said many times, the moment Hezbollah ceases to exist the country will get all fractured. Hezbollah/Shias are the ones preventing it, not Sunnis lol Sunnis can't do shit. If anything, they'll actually go along and create their mini Wahabi states in Tripoli/Akkar and Sidon. Christians are in a much better situation than 10 years ago, all we gotta do is wait for Hezbollah take the first step and Avigdor Lieberman keep his promise. Syria which was an even bigger obstacle than Hezbollah is gone now, now it's just Hezbollah and Israel will eventually crush them.
 
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