The Way to Building a Secular Lebanon and Secular Constitution and System

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
@Dynamite Joe like I said many times, the moment Hezbollah ceases to exist the country will get all fractured. Hezbollah/Shias are the ones preventing it, not Sunnis lol Sunnis can't do shit. If anything, they'll actually go along and create their mini Wahabi states in Tripoli/Akkar and Sidon. Christians are in a much better situation than 10 years ago, all we gotta do is wait for Hezbollah take the first step and Avigdor Lieberman keep his promise. Syria which was an even bigger obstacle than Hezbollah is gone now, now it's just Hezbollah and Israel will eventually crush them.

The shia and sunni population are not going anywhere... HA is the main representative of the shia community, if they go, there will be another party to take over... I suggest you stop living on pipe dreams and start getting treatment of the kind that only a professional can administer. Your bigotry and prejudices have reduced you to a fanatical nutcase.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
The shia and sunni population are not going anywhere... HA is the main representative of the shia community, if they go, there will be another party to take over... I suggest you stop living on pipe dreams and start getting treatment of the kind that only a professional can administer. Your bigotry and prejudices have reduced you to a fanatical nutcase.

Let's put it this way:

Sunnis can't do shit against Christians.
Shias without Hezbollah won't be able to do shit against Christians either.
There's no Palestinians, no Syria to help them this time. Druze won't be on on their side either.
 
Religions ? Cultures ?
Lebanon is a very multicultural country.
How can you assure my individual rights will be preserved if one day a Muslim majority Parliament decided to pass a law banning alcohol for example (just a small example)

As i said, this requires trust between sects.
the thing that we lack. And is a requirement for secularism in a multi cultural/sect country.

You can abolish religion from a state
But you can’t abolish religion out of the people

Again; if you are respected as an individual; the state can not pass laws against individual liberties!
Alcohol consumption is one of them!
When you call for "christian rights" we may end up in confessional/federal system as some are requesting.
In this case you may get "communal rights" but individual rights are smashed.
 
So you’re doing the thinking for me now

Egypt is the perfect example for secularism in a country where Muslims are a majority next to a significant non-Muslim population.

It is the closest example to a secular Lebanon.

Egypt is a secular country? Maybe I'm not so sure; but I'm sure of one thing it is not a liberal democracy!
Secularism without liberal democracy means nothing.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
@Dynamite Joe Israel will carpet bomb the South and destroy Hezbollah and the Shia hegemony for good. Shortly after, the smartest Christian party (most likely LF) will declare Christian independence in Ashrafieh, Kesserwan, Metn, Jbeil, Koura, Batroun, Bsharreh and Zagharta. A continuous land sprawl with over 90% Christian population. This is what gonna happen once Hezbollah is out of the picture, because there's no Syria to save your arses this time.
 
@Dynamite Joe Israel will carpet bomb the South and destroy Hezbollah and the Shia hegemony for good. Shortly after, the smartest Christian party (most likely LF) will declare Christian independence in Ashrafieh, Kesserwan, Metn, Jbeil, Koura, Batroun, Bsharreh and Zagharta. A continuous land sprawl with over 90% Christian population. This is what gonna happen once Hezbollah is out of the picture, because there's no Syria to save your arses this time.

Funny; 13 years ago Israel did just that they carpet bomb south Lebanon; and many M14 supporters at the time were simply waiting the outcome to declare hegemony over Lebanon; how did things turn out?

You talked earlier about Iraq and how christians are diminished there; well what caused this to happen ? The American invasion!
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
Funny; 13 years ago Israel did just that they carpet bomb south Lebanon; and many M14 supporters at the time were simply waiting the outcome to declare hegemony over Lebanon; how did things turn out?

You talked earlier about Iraq and how christians are diminished there; well what caused this to happen ? The American invasion!

But this time will be 100x worse for them, because if Hezbollah has 100k missiles towards Israel and are actually capable of harming them this time you can only imagine their response. Considering that for every Jew killed, Israel kills a thousand Muslim Arabs do your math. I honestly predict the South as other Shias areas will look worse than the worst parts of Syria. This war is gonna be quick and probably only last a few days, but highly destructive, just enough for Israel to wipe Hezbollah this time.
 
But this time will be 100x worse for them, because if Hezbollah has 100k missiles towards Israel and are actually capable of harming them this time you can only imagine their response. Considering that for every Jew killed, Israel kills a thousand Muslim Arabs do your math. I honestly predict the South as other Shias areas will look worse than the worst parts of Syria. This war is gonna be quick and probably only last a few days, but highly destructive, just enough for Israel to wipe Hezbollah this time.

Do you have any military expertise ? If you do you'll know that the only way to implement your fantasy is through a genocide via nuclear war; which is impossible in south Lebanon as the Israeli will basically nuke themselves if they do it!

Ba3den it sounds as if you are waiting Israel to murder all the Shia population Lebanon; let us say that this happens how would that benefit you ?

Note: Ma fi shi worse than 2006; they basically destroyed everything, however they stopped at Shia towns and regions. If the Israelis want to do worse than 2006 they'll have to widen their target to include Sunni and Christian regions other than that they can do nothing more. Dahieh was levelled same as most of southern Lebanon.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Absolutely unacceptable!
First off comparing gay marriage to polygamy is unacceptable. One is a civil union between two consenting adults the other is a humiliating, degrading exploitative form of human trafficking of mostly child brides for a couple of bucks.
Polygamy is a crime in anyway you want to put it, so no it wont be decriminalized.

Second, homor killing are a religious right, how are going to enforce on people who hav been practicing it for decades? Just saying no its a crime wont fix it, any merely relgious folks will fight for it because its a divine right, god gave it after all, somehow in dom mysteriois way..

I was expecting this answer from you, as i have from many muslim folks. Alcohol is just a front, it symbolizes any service, product or activities that is permissable under civil law but banned under religious law. So unless you can give me a practical solution of how i can preserve my civil rights from som religious crazed people we dont have a deal.

Honor killing is a tribal/cultural practice. It is neither religious nor Islamic. I cannot recall quite well, but I believe there was a widely publicized case where a christian in Lebanon perpetrated honor killing. And the druze so it too...rememeber the poor Sunni guy who got his penis chopped off for marrying a druze girl? That is "honor mutilation". :lol: And George Clooney still has his intact after marrying Amal Alamuddine.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Funny; 13 years ago Israel did just that they carpet bomb south Lebanon; and many M14 supporters at the time were simply waiting the outcome to declare hegemony over Lebanon; how did things turn out?

You talked earlier about Iraq and how christians are diminished there; well what caused this to happen ? The American invasion!

It isn't the Shia presence or Shia led govt that is persecuting Christians in Iraq. It is the extremists and Sunni terror groups that's killing Christians or scaring them to leave. And these same extremists have killed hundreds of thousands of Shia civilians. And these groups are supported by who exactly? Your guess is as good as mine.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
saying what?
The christians dont want to live with muslims? la2 7abibe i think everyone is saying it aslan. we dont want to live with that society mate. enough is enough. the status quo will remain until something big happens. let it happen.

You and your likes and the above post are the reason why it is expedient for us to have a secular state

We literally need to skin religion off your flesh and tongue to have constant peace in Lebanon. Hypocrites, who are neither humane nor godly using religion to commit every evil and destroy the country. That is the sorry state of Lebanon since independence.

Even if the Muslims all apostatize and become atheists, and all the Christians apostatize and become atheists, people like you will still daydream about this apartheid and racist system in Lebanon that isn't fit to be part of a modern world. I really do not understand how other states talk to our govt. It is an apartheid state.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
wehed bye7kilna 3an l mut3a 2al w bado secularism? LOL
wallahi you goons never seem to amaze me. ma7ada is falling for it. The shia aren't happy with the status quo l kel 3aref. The only way to change it will be through violence, fa keep dreaming :)

enjoy your mut3a

You're still paint the quest of others for a sane, secular and modern state with sectarian motives. It is good news you are in far away Australia. Maybe you can have you confessional system with the Aussies. Oh wait! The Aborigines, Australia's Shias, aren't happy. :lol: if it is all about power and violence, the Shia could have changed the system long ago. There are bigger objectives. Coexistence, resistance, civil peace etc.

Anyways, the trend of the majority of Lebanese not voting will eventually make a mark and delegitimize the sectarian oligarchs and their gangs in power. Majority of Lebanese aren't happy with the kind of stone age state we have and its shameful laws.

Mut3a is a private affair between consenting adults. People can do it anywhere. Even in Europe. I do not understand how it relates to having a secular system. Everything religious is fine so long as it is in private affairs.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
@Skunk
Don't worry too much about the christians bro. They will remain in the country. You remember in the 90s?
ma kan 3ana chi. a5ado kel chi henne w ba3dena 2elloun 3ein ye7ko b secular system or Taef. LOL

a5ado kel chi in the 90s and ne7na chway chway we will recover what was lost. WJ is over. Berri's days is nearly over kameina. Against all odds the christians remain in the country and are powerful. For the first time we have a President that represents, ministries that we choose and no one chooses for us, 55 MPs in Parliament by christian voices.
Its all up from here bro. I don't see the christians going back at all. Just frustration that the country is small and can be fixed and the so called allies (HA and co) keep on putting it backwards.

No body wants Christians out. Normal Lebanese want the sectarian bigots out! Stop stoking sectarian tensions and flare-ups. The ones you're considering your allies aren't they Muslim? A Shia Islamist party! Are you okay?
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
They can be blind as much as they want :)
For example the Maronite mission in Australia is working hard. I registered both my kids in Lebanon and actually will be soon.
There is alot of work being done. The ministry of justice with the 55% being christians just a few days ago, the enrolment of more christians in the LAF. What we need now is for FPM to clean out the shia from the ministries they have. Everytime a shia gets out a christian one shia is out from the ministry that FPM has. An eye for an eye. Same what was done with WJ.

If this is the mission of the FPM - to have sectarian cleansing in ministries it controls - I am afraid we are heading for another civil war. And it looks like those who worked for Aoun to make it to Baabda will be the ones to drag him down. The very reason we need secularism. To stop the sectarian rivalry and derailing the country. I hope your outbursts are just civil war era fantasies. It very much sounds like you still live in the past.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Trying to score a cheap point because I mistakenly called your post a thread? Don't flatter yourself.
Even kindergarten students at Al Rasoul El A3zam college know the difference between the two.

Also, I said I only support polygamy as long as women are allowed to marry multiple husbands too. The problem with Muslim polygamy is that men can marry a second wife without the first wife's consent. It's very discriminatory. (Another case of Muslim clerics twisting Mohamed's words to suit their agenda).

As for age of consent, it's not strictly due to religion. The marriageable age is 16 in many Western countries.
No one can stop a 70 year-old man from marrying a 16-year old woman in Scotland.

Actually, polygamy in Islam is not an obligatory act. It is very much limited. And polygamy is not widespread in Lebanon. One Lebanese wife and her troubled is like taking fifty wives of other nationalities. Even taking one and we are scared of them.

The wife can place a clause in the marriage contract that the man won't be allowed to take another wife. That is very much compatible with Islam. In the Quran, it says "take one" except if you can do justice among two, three or four wives.

The entire cry about polygamy on this thread is just a case of clutching at straws to reject secularism. If a Muslim says we can't do away with polygamy, they will then say how then do you want a secular Lebanon?

Even in a sectarian system, the woman can still do away with polygamy. Put a clause in the marriage contract that the man should not take another. And if he insists, then it will lead to divorce and the woman getting her full rights. Every woman has that choice. And even without clause, the woman can still walk out of the marriage if the husband takes another wife.

And @manifesto is suggesting polyandry to balance the equation. That means women can also take multiple husbands. How about that? It will be nice for a lady to have the option to marry a Palestinian, a Syrian, a Lebanese and a Bengali! Christian men like @Aoune32! who are very patriarchal and sectarian will be left humbled!!! And by the way Mr @manifesto , @Aoune32! is homophobic and anti-gay. People just need sometimes to have others whom they can hate on. In Lebanon, this sick human nature is embodied in our political system. The sick Lebanese mentality built and wired on racism is on full display in our governing system and sectarian laws.
 

Le منشار

New Member
Unfortunately, reality is different on the ground.
I also wish if the lebanese muslim majority think like @Rachel Corrie
However in reality they’re more like @Le منشار
Skunk is confused se3a Berri and his supporter @Rachel Corrie baltagi, se3a he wishes that Lebanese Muslims be like RachelCorrie and Berri :lol: dayaaaa3
You ought to be enlightened by @Le منشار view of the world in the 'Deep into Islam' thread. It's guaranteed to highly entertain. But yes, folks like him need a better education.
what do you suggest as better education ? I'm all ears :android:
Not true. I mean yes, the majority of Muslims are conservative, but the likes of @Le منشار have been rejected by Lebanese Muslims.
I'm pretty sure @Le منشار is just a troll though. He sounds harmless.

لأن المسلمين في لبنان قد أبتدعوا أسلاما يحابي الصليبيين والروم علّهم يتّقون شرّهم وماذا كانت النتيجة؟ دولة فاشلة آيلة الى السقوط عند أول منعطف - تنبح نباح الكلب المسعور جوعا وبعد أن ترمي أليها بعض الدول فتات المال تكف عن نباحها وتبدأ تمسيح الجوخ هههههههههه. قال ترولّ قال. الترول الوحيد هو الذي يدعي الأسلام دينا ثم يتاجر به في المحافل الدولية من تحت الطاولة على صفقات تزيد اليهود والصليبيين طمعا وفجورا وكفرا
وأذا ما حاججته في كتاب الله فأذا به عبوسا كارها لكتاب الله يتولّى عنك وينعق "خوارج خوارج" هههههههههه
 

Le منشار

New Member
If HA wanted to ransack your homes, it would happen as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow and there's nothing you could do about it.
yes they can do that if the other party doesn't have any weapons and is not getting military support. otherwise, HA is dratt 3ala blatt !!
-----------------
the real title of the thread should've been: How to build a country and not a secular Lebanon.
 
Last edited:

flag-waver

Well-Known Member
If this is the mission of the FPM - to have sectarian cleansing in ministries it controls - I am afraid we are heading for another civil war. And it looks like those who worked for Aoun to make it to Baabda will be the ones to drag him down. The very reason we need secularism. To stop the sectarian rivalry and derailing the country. I hope your outbursts are just civil war era fantasies. It very much sounds like you still live in the past.

We can do what we want with our ministries same as your khalil 3ambya3mol. Eltelak before ma7ada khayef minnak. Bitdal t2elle Australia ma Australia wein seken enta lech?
Second, i talk exactly the same way that a christians in Lebanon is now saying. No difference.
 
Top