Time to change our strategy to get change in Lebanon?

#1
We're on a virtual internet forum talking and talking about the real issues that affect us - employment, security, basic services like electricity. Lebanon is controlled by people who represent foreign countries. The garbage is everywhere. We could go on and on. So what can we do? The days of talking should be over, this isn't a call for violence obviously, but what can we do today that we've never done before to push for the change we deserve? What are some creative ways we can truly push for change? In an era of fake news and social media, what can we do today to bring about nonviolent change in Lebanon? We want the disarmament of non government troops and yes that is referring to Palestinians and Irans militia Hezbollah, we want electricity and not ships parked in our ocean, we want to clean our country from the garbage that is literally in the streets, what can we do today to push for this change? Plenty of people that are unemployed and essentially impoverished by a system that forces them to live off of foreign handouts by any foreign government e.g. Saudi, Iran, US, etc. If anyone has a pessimistic comment and says nothing then why are you even on this forum?
 
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  • zero

    New Member
    #2
    We need to minimize sectarianism. That is the only way. There's a few things we can do...

    You're 100% correct about disarmament of militias and the state needs to take control of all of Lebanon. We also have to tackle corruption and support the working class and poor areas. Those three steps i think will help a lot. easier said than done, but possible.
     

    Danny Z

    Legendary Member
    #3
    We're on a virtual internet forum talking and talking about the real issues that affect us - employment, security, basic services like electricity. Lebanon is controlled by people who represent foreign countries. The garbage is everywhere. We could go on and on. So what can we do? The days of talking should be over, this isn't a call for violence obviously, but what can we do today that we've never done before to push for the change we deserve? What are some creative ways we can truly push for change? In an era of fake news and social media, what can we do today to bring about nonviolent change in Lebanon? We want the disarmament of non government troops and yes that is referring to Palestinians and Irans militia Hezbollah, we want electricity and not ships parked in our ocean, we want to clean our country from the garbage that is literally in the streets, what can we do today to push for this change? Plenty of people that are unemployed and essentially impoverished by a system that forces them to live off of foreign handouts by any foreign government e.g. Saudi, Iran, US, etc. If anyone has a pessimistic comment and says nothing then why are you even on this forum?

    Here are 10 options, some do not apply to Lebanese, and some are out of the question I guess anyway you can still pick one

    Top 10 Immigration Friendly Countries
     

    lebnan_lilkel

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #4
    One of the major issues apart from the armed Palestinians is senior public servants including security and army personnel. Their jobs should be as employees and not used to obtain privileges. They set up their own nests and make political connections to serve corruption. They are also a gold mine for political votes. I have no idea how to force change short of handing the keys to a foreign western country and forgetting about our independence on a 100 lease arrangement. It also means many people who add fat to public institutions will be looking for work.
     
    #6
    One word: federalism

    Sincere question: how do you define Federalism? Federalism as in the US, Swiss, Russian Federalism or the Federalism they try to scare us with in Lebanon which they insinuate is partition? I actually think Federalism might be a practical option but along which lines, by Muhafazat, Cazas, etc.?
     
    #7
    One of the major issues apart from the armed Palestinians is senior public servants including security and army personnel. Their jobs should be as employees and not used to obtain privileges. They set up their own nests and make political connections to serve corruption. They are also a gold mine for political votes. I have no idea how to force change short of handing the keys to a foreign western country and forgetting about our independence on a 100 lease arrangement. It also means many people who add fat to public institutions will be looking for work.
    It's a good point, someone mentioned that Federalism might be the option, not sure which could/should come first but we all agree, even if you change the political system, there are underlying cultural issues which are harder to change. It's naive to think if we disarm militias or even change the political structure that suddenly everyone is going to become a model citizen. So whats a practical things we could do?
     

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    #8
    It's a good point, someone mentioned that Federalism might be the option, not sure which could/should come first but we all agree, even if you change the political system, there are underlying cultural issues which are harder to change. It's naive to think if we disarm militias or even change the political structure that suddenly everyone is going to become a model citizen. So whats a practical things we could do?
    Central power needs to be divided amongst state governments. These statw governments could be like the large districts i.e the election law or even larger all over the country.
    Why does a governate like mount lebanon which encompasses 2.5 million people need to pay taxes whilst some in other areas dont?
    Each state gets taxes from their own citizens and they do the projects they want in the district. The state government is elected by the people who live in that state and hence can we taken out by them every 4-6 years.
     

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    #9
    How in the world does one get federalism out of such a map?

    Lebanon_religious_groups_distribution.jpg


    Probably the only advantage is the shia in the south and maybe in Baalbeck. Other than that look at the mix. Christians are everywhere on the map from North to South.
     
    #10
    How in the world does one get federalism out of such a map?

    Lebanon_religious_groups_distribution.jpg


    Probably the only advantage is the shia in the south and maybe in Baalbeck. Other than that look at the mix. Christians are everywhere on the map from North to South.
    From Zgharta all the way down to Jezzine (including Druze areas, Zahle, Deir Ahmar etc.)
     
    #13
    We're on a virtual internet forum talking and talking about the real issues that affect us - employment, security, basic services like electricity. Lebanon is controlled by people who represent foreign countries. The garbage is everywhere. We could go on and on. So what can we do? The days of talking should be over, this isn't a call for violence obviously, but what can we do today that we've never done before to push for the change we deserve? What are some creative ways we can truly push for change? In an era of fake news and social media, what can we do today to bring about nonviolent change in Lebanon? We want the disarmament of non government troops and yes that is referring to Palestinians and Irans militia Hezbollah, we want electricity and not ships parked in our ocean, we want to clean our country from the garbage that is literally in the streets, what can we do today to push for this change? Plenty of people that are unemployed and essentially impoverished by a system that forces them to live off of foreign handouts by any foreign government e.g. Saudi, Iran, US, etc. If anyone has a pessimistic comment and says nothing then why are you even on this forum?
    How about a system like the CONFEDERATION HELVETIQUE, with Cantons. They speak different languages, are Managed by local councils (Conseil d'Etat) and the Conferederation is Managed by a Conseil Federal with the Presidency rotating on a yearly basis.
     
    #14
    How in the world does one get federalism out of such a map?

    Lebanon_religious_groups_distribution.jpg


    Probably the only advantage is the shia in the south and maybe in Baalbeck. Other than that look at the mix. Christians are everywhere on the map from North to South.
    Google enclave / exclave you will understand
    Go check the map of Switzerland or UAE
    It’s quite easy in Lebanon
    You don’t have to create 100% same color pure region
    You will have to settle for 90-95% and it’s doable with minor swaps and casa border changes
    In Akkar one or two enclaves around qbayet
    Bcharreh koura and batroun can stay as is
    Small border changes for Zgharta / drop meryata and get kfarhabou
    Deir ahmar can join bcharreh
    Kaaa and ras Baalbek enclave
    Zahleh can drop north and south parts
    Westbekaa enclave elongated along the right side of the road
    Jbeil is bit tricky but can be solved by a chia enclave in the mountain
    Kesserwan and metn can stay as is
    Baabda can be split in 3 clean
    Aley chouf is bit tricky but can en up with 3 enclaves around bhamdoun Damour and deir el kamar
    Jezzine can drop Rihane and get east saida
    Two more enclaves around merjeyoun and ein ebel Rmeich
    Beirut already clear and split
    It’s not the end of the world and it can be done
    Each state will have its police force and collect taxes
    Minorities will be protected on both sides by federal laws
    People will live happily
    That’s the only solution for Lebanon
    But I doubt anyone can accept such thing especially Iran and Ksa
    They will be ready to go to war to prevent it since it will anchor Christians forever
    They are betting that they will get rid of any Christian presence in one generation to build their regional empires
     

    lebnan_lilkel

    Well-Known Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #16
    We had federalism in the war days. It lasted about 20 years and ended in Christian's exterminating each other even though the economy was great..
    Attitudes are still the same. It's a cultural flaw. Any party in power will abuse their opposition.
     
    #19
    Militias had full control. Issued tax invoices. Controlled the ports income. Imposed tax on goods sent to other parts of the country. Ethnically cleansed their areas...sounds like as federal as possible!
    You don’t get what federalism means
    What you are describing is militia rule
    Switzerland and Germany are federal states and they are the best and most civilized countries on earth
    You are maybe intentionally confusing two different things just to reject federalism
    Federalism will not be accepted because currently some people abide the rules and others profit
    Some people pay taxes and other steal electricity and water
    That’s why they will never accept federalism
     

    Aoune32!

    Well-Known Member
    #20
    You don’t get what federalism means
    What you are describing is militia rule
    Switzerland and Germany are federal states and they are the best and most civilized countries on earth
    You are maybe intentionally confusing two different things just to reject federalism
    Federalism will not be accepted because currently some people abide the rules and others profit
    Some people pay taxes and other steal electricity and water
    That’s why they will never accept federalism
    Then stop paying your taxes.
     
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