Trump Announces "Middle East Peace Plan"

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
excuse me?
for the last 2 pages you have been talking about demographics and birth rates. now i am taking it out of the subject.
I am moving on.
To add, there are several conversations - either you are trying to be cute or you mistakenly replied to wrong conversation.
 
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  • !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    I suggest Trump go and take the palos. We don't want them in Lebanon... Will never accept the refugees whether be Palos or Syrians to be given citizenship and to stay forever on our land.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    If Arab or Muslim can implant himself anywhere then so can anyone else.
    That's not the point.

    You just crashed the entire case for a Jewish state from time immemorial. You said "genes" don't matter. I thought it was all about genes. You now see the genes argument isn't either in your favor. This is what you said, in case you have forgotten so quick:

    "Today I may ask them "are your Jews" and if they will answer "We are Arabs" so regardless of their genetic makeup they will be Arabs because they want to be Arabs."

    Your claim about Arabs and Muslims implanting themselves everywhere and so can everyone else doesn't hold here. A Muslim from Tanzania or Ethiopia would never claim right to settle in Palestine or Saudi Arabia just because he is Muslim. Similarly, A Shia from Lebanon or Syria can never claim to be Iranian or claim rights in Iran just because of his Shia faith. But this happens all the time with Judaists and their claims to dispossess the possessors/indigenous peoples of the land of Palestine. And you just said genes dont matter.

    Even in the past, the Arabians/original Muslims came in and conquered and settled and administered the lands and assimilated, or in other words embraced the peoples of the lands they conquered. They didn't bring Arabians from Antarctica or Muslims from Siberia to take over their conquered lands and in the process displace the indigenes. The indigenes either converted or were treated as People of the Book. For that very fact, today Turkey and Iran are both overwhelmingly Muslim nations but do not identify as Arabs. On the other hand, Lebanon has a large percentage of Christians and Lebanese identify as Arabs.

    The more you open your mind, the more your own words are crashing any case or argument for a racist apartheid Zionist state in Palestine.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    The whole “Arab” argument is stupid. The only reason that (some) people of the Levant consider themselves “Arab” is because of the wave of Arab Nationalism that swept the Middle East during/after WWII.

    Nationalism itself a Western concept, so I’m not sure why people keep bringing it up.

    Lastly, the Levantine peoples (like the Lebanese) are more Mediterranean than Arab. It’s real obvious.
     
    VH Redux

    VH Redux

    Member
    That's not the point.

    You just crashed the entire case for a Jewish state from time immemorial. You said "genes" don't matter. I thought it was all about genes. You now see the genes argument isn't either in your favor. This is what you said, in case you have forgotten so quick:

    "Today I may ask them "are your Jews" and if they will answer "We are Arabs" so regardless of their genetic makeup they will be Arabs because they want to be Arabs."

    Your claim about Arabs and Muslims implanting themselves everywhere and so can everyone else doesn't hold here. A Muslim from Tanzania or Ethiopia would never claim right to settle in Palestine or Saudi Arabia just because he is Muslim. Similarly, A Shia from Lebanon or Syria can never claim to be Iranian or claim rights in Iran just because of his Shia faith. But this happens all the time with Judaists and their claims to dispossess the possessors/indigenous peoples of the land of Palestine. And you just said genes dont matter.

    Even in the past, the Arabians/original Muslims came in and conquered and settled and administered the lands and assimilated, or in other words embraced the peoples of the lands they conquered. They didn't bring Arabians from Antarctica or Muslims from Siberia to take over their conquered lands and in the process displace the indigenes. The indigenes either converted or were treated as People of the Book. For that very fact, today Turkey and Iran are both overwhelmingly Muslim nations but do not identify as Arabs. On the other hand, Lebanon has a large percentage of Christians and Lebanese identify as Arabs.

    The more you open your mind, the more your own words are crashing any case or argument for a racist apartheid Zionist state in Palestine.
    they never administered anything lmao

    it was the indigenous who did that
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    Even in the past, the Arabians/original Muslims came in and conquered and settled and administered the lands and assimilated, or in other words embraced the peoples of the lands they conquered.
    Fake history. The original Arabs who conquered the Levant preferred to live in separate communities (called garrison towns); and not “assimilate” in the peoples that they conquered.

    And no, given that they were warring tribes who came from the desolate deserts of Arabia (with no knowledge of concepts like the administration of a state), they did not oversee such matters.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    That's not the point.

    You just crashed the entire case for a Jewish state from time immemorial. You said "genes" don't matter. I thought it was all about genes. You now see the genes argument isn't either in your favor. This is what you said, in case you have forgotten so quick:

    "Today I may ask them "are your Jews" and if they will answer "We are Arabs" so regardless of their genetic makeup they will be Arabs because they want to be Arabs."
    There is no contradiction in my previous posts.
    As you perfectly know Jew could be by birth (Ex: yours truly) and Jew could be by conversion (EX: Ivanka Trump).
    Former could be religious or not because situation of birth allows this.
    Latter usually are religious because nobody undergoes conversion just for the heck of it.
    None the less we all are Jews.
    Being a Jew is not easy, which makes me very easy to accept the claim of those who say they are.
    Also I see no reason why I should contradict you when you claim to be who you say you are.

    Your claim about Arabs and Muslims implanting themselves everywhere and so can everyone else doesn't hold here. A Muslim from Tanzania or Ethiopia would never claim right to settle in Palestine or Saudi Arabia just because he is Muslim. Similarly, A Shia from Lebanon or Syria can never claim to be Iranian or claim rights in Iran just because of his Shia faith. But this happens all the time with Judaists and their claims to dispossess the possessors/indigenous peoples of the land of Palestine. And you just said genes dont matter.
    We are talking about Arabs and Muslims, people who already are implanted in Palestine and you are trying to digress by sticking me with Tanzania, Ethiopia and Iran.
    Looks like an excuse to me or at least faulty example.

    Even in the past, the Arabians/original Muslims came in and conquered and settled and administered the lands and assimilated, or in other words embraced the peoples of the lands they conquered. They didn't bring Arabians from Antarctica or Muslims from Siberia to take over their conquered lands and in the process displace the indigenes. The indigenes either converted or were treated as People of the Book. For that very fact, today Turkey and Iran are both overwhelmingly Muslim nations but do not identify as Arabs. On the other hand, Lebanon has a large percentage of Christians and Lebanese identify as Arabs.
    "They didn't bring Arabians from Antarctica or Muslims from Siberia to take over their conquered lands and in the process displace the indigenes." - Are you trying to make yet another excuse for your implantation?

    "The indigenes either converted or were treated as People of the Book" - So, my ancestor who was forcefully converted of was forced to wear Star Of David (among many other things) was treated as one of People Of The Book?
    And you still do not get why anyone would want to chase you off?

    The more you open your mind, the more your own words are crashing any case or argument for a racist apartheid Zionist state in Palestine.
    I think we can disregard this last line as standardized lie used when all else fails.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    There is no contradiction in my previous posts.
    As you perfectly know Jew could be by birth (Ex: yours truly) and Jew could be by conversion (EX: Ivanka Trump).
    Former could be religious or not because situation of birth allows this.
    Latter usually are religious because nobody undergoes conversion just for the heck of it.
    None the less we all are Jews.
    Being a Jew is not easy, which makes me very easy to accept the claim of those who say they are.
    Also I see no reason why I should contradict you when you claim to be who you say you are.



    We are talking about Arabs and Muslims, people who already are implanted in Palestine and you are trying to digress by sticking me with Tanzania, Ethiopia and Iran.
    Looks like an excuse to me or at least faulty example.



    "They didn't bring Arabians from Antarctica or Muslims from Siberia to take over their conquered lands and in the process displace the indigenes." - Are you trying to make yet another excuse for your implantation?

    "The indigenes either converted or were treated as People of the Book" - So, my ancestor who was forcefully converted of was forced to wear Star Of David (among many other things) was treated as one of People Of The Book?
    And you still do not get why anyone would want to chase you off?



    I think we can disregard this last line as standardized lie used when all else fails.
    So you're not chasing off the descendants of your "ancestors"?

    You cant deny conversions to Judaism in Europe didn't take place.

    To also assume that every Arab or Muslim or even Christian Palestine today in Palestine, who could possibly have Jewish descent was actually "forcefully" converted is a joke. The Samaritans converted to Islam peacefully in Palestine and remained so. Whether peacefully or forcefully converted, you have no right to come from other continents to chase anyone away. That land has never been the exclusive right of any one people or group of people, whether religious or ethnic. And it will NEVER be the exclusive right of any one group, even if Trump donates to you what doesn't belong to his father.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    they never administered anything lmao

    it was the indigenous who did that
    So Umar Ibn al Khattab, Amr Ibn al Aas, Muawiyah, Malik al Ashtar, Muhammad Ibn Abu Bakr (all of whom ruled the Levant and Egypt) were all Levantines? These were men from Arabia who ruled the Levant and Egypt. So why would you deny history? The other clown/troll (who doesnt deserve a reply and wont be dignified with one, 3am bi 7assher 7alo) is saying it's fake history. The names of the Arabian administrators/rulers are well known and recorded in history.
     
    VH Redux

    VH Redux

    Member
    So Umar Ibn al Khattab, Amr Ibn al Aas, Muawiyah, Malik al Ashtar, Muhammad Ibn Abu Bakr (all of whom ruled the Levant and Egypt) were all Levantines? These were men from Arabia who ruled the Levant and Egypt. So why would you deny history? The other clown/troll (who doesnt deserve a reply and wont be dignified with one, 3am bi 7assher 7alo) is saying it's fake history. The names of the Arabian administrators/rulers are well known and recorded in history.
    they ruled but the administrators were not arab

    the ones who translated from greek to syriac and then arabic were not arab

    the ones who taught the invading bedouins chemistry biology finance philosophy etc. were not arab
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    So you're not chasing off the descendants of your "ancestors"?
    I did not understand this part.

    You can't deny conversions to Judaism in Europe didn't take place.
    No, I wouldn't deny it, never occurred to me to do so - Jew is a Jew regardless of where conversion has taken place.
    I just do not see how it helps your point of view and especially because percentage of conversions is so low statistically that one can easily disregard it.

    To also assume that every Arab or Muslim or even Christian Palestine today in Palestine, who could possibly have Jewish descent was actually "forcefully" converted is a joke. The Samaritans converted to Islam peacefully in Palestine and remained so. Whether peacefully or forcefully converted, you have no right to come from other continents to chase anyone away. That land has never been the exclusive right of any one people or group of people, whether religious or ethnic. And it will NEVER be the exclusive right of any one group, even if Trump donates to you what doesn't belong to his father.
    "also assume that every Arab or Muslim or even Christian Palestine today in Palestine, who could possibly have Jewish descent was actually "forcefully" converted is a joke"

    OK, then joke it is.

    "Samaritans converted to Islam peacefully in Palestine and remained so" - can you prove it?

    "Whether peacefully or forcefully converted, you have no right to come from other continents to chase anyone away" - actually you are wrong.

    Every nation has chased off occupiers and squatters and everyone recognizes their right to do so - I see no reason to exempt Jews from the Right that everyone else takes for granted.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    I did not understand this part.
    You said some "Jewish ancestors" were "forcefully" converted. And their descendants identity as Arabs today. And these descendants Israehelli is chasing away.

    No, I wouldn't deny it, never occurred to me to do so - Jew is a Jew regardless of where conversion has taken place.
    I just do not see how it helps your point of view and especially because percentage of conversions is so low statistically that one can easily disregard it.
    A Jew is not a Jew if he is from Khazaria.

    A Jew is not a Jew if he is from Ethiopia or Yemen, and not blonde looking.

    The impact of conversions and intermarriage is huge.

    Lebanese have migrated to other continents for centuries. But today, all Lebanese look alike. We dont have Lebanese that look like Indians, and some like Africans and some like Europeans (except if one of their parents is from another culture). That is the generality of Lebanese I'm talking about and not interracial kids born to one Lebanese parent.

    In the case of Jews, the diversity is too pronounced among the different groups.

    The claim of a common gene is ridiculous. Each and every human can have a common gene with some other human somewhere else. You even destroyed genetic claims for the land by saying genes dont matter if a Palestinian who has Jewishness in him identifies as Arab today.


    "also assume that every Arab or Muslim or even Christian Palestine today in Palestine, who could possibly have Jewish descent was actually "forcefully" converted is a joke"

    OK, then joke it is.

    "Samaritans converted to Islam peacefully in Palestine and remained so" - can you prove it?

    "Whether peacefully or forcefully converted, you have no right to come from other continents to chase anyone away" - actually you are wrong.

    Every nation has chased off occupiers and squatters and everyone recognizes their right to do so - I see no reason to exempt Jews from the Right that everyone else takes for granted.
    Yes, the Jews have the right to do so, if they were chased away. But today, it is the Jews who are the occupiers and invaders and need to be chased off. And they will lose like most occupiers and invaders have lost in history. South Africa is the most recent.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    they ruled but the administrators were not arab

    the ones who translated from greek to syriac and then arabic were not arab

    the ones who taught the invading bedouins chemistry biology finance philosophy etc. were not arab
    Why are you deliberately being silly?

    I didn't say educators or teachers were Arabians. I said "administrators". There is a big difference between administrators and educators.
     
    VH Redux

    VH Redux

    Member
    Why are you deliberately being silly?

    I didn't say educators or teachers were Arabians. I said "administrators". There is a big difference between administrators and educators.
    administrators were mostly non arab for a long while

    you do understand the difference between administrator and ruler right?
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    administrators were mostly non arab for a long while

    you do understand the difference between administrator and ruler right?
    Please what is the difference between an administrator and a ruler in the context of the Levant and Egypt vis a vis the Arabian conquest.
     
    VH Redux

    VH Redux

    Member
    Please what is the difference between an administrator and a ruler in the context of the Levant and Egypt vis a vis the Arabian conquest.
    think of the ruler as the president and the admins as the ministers
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    You said some "Jewish ancestors" were "forcefully" converted. And their descendants identity as Arabs today. And these descendants Israehelli is chasing away.
    Nothing is stopping them to claim that they are Jews.

    A Jew is not a Jew if he is from Khazaria.
    A Jew is not a Jew if he is from Ethiopia or Yemen, and not blonde looking.
    Do not expect Jews jump up every time anyone of you feels the urge to tell us who is and who isn't a Jew.
    BTW, you completely disregard all the valuable information that I gave you in my previous posts.
    I understand that it is inconvenient to you, but our conversation will not be able to continue if you will try to make it lopsided.

    The impact of conversions and intermarriage is huge.

    Lebanese have migrated to other continents for centuries. But today, all Lebanese look alike. We dont have Lebanese that look like Indians, and some like Africans and some like Europeans (except if one of their parents is from another culture). That is the generality of Lebanese I'm talking about and not interracial kids born to one Lebanese parent.

    In the case of Jews, the diversity is too pronounced among the different groups.

    The claim of a common gene is ridiculous. Each and every human can have a common gene with some other human somewhere else. You even destroyed genetic claims for the land by saying genes dont matter if a Palestinian who has Jewishness in him identifies as Arab today.

    Yes, the Jews have the right to do so, if they were chased away. But today, it is the Jews who are the occupiers and invaders and need to be chased off. And they will lose like most occupiers and invaders have lost in history. South Africa is the most recent.
    Lebanese are not Jews and Jews are not Lebanese.

    By most of the time in last 2 millenia Jews have lived in isolation throughout The World and this has helped to preserve Jewishness until today.

    I thank anti-semitism for that and my thanks are sincere - anti-semitism saved Jews from dissolving like Lebanese do.
     
    AtheistForYeezus

    AtheistForYeezus

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Why are you deliberately being silly?

    I didn't say educators or teachers were Arabians. I said "administrators". There is a big difference between administrators and educators.
    Palestine is an Arab invention. Palestinians sold their illegally-acquired land to Jewish settlers.
    They have no right to claim it back.
     
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