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Trump Announces "Middle East Peace Plan"

Rafidi

Rafidi

Legendary Member
think of the ruler as the president and the admins as the ministers
I am referring to the the ultimate ruler as an administrator. Please tell me how that is wrong linguistically.

Besides, if you are telling me the lower ranked officials, whom you refer to as administrators or educators were not Arabians, doesn't that dispel the arguments of @proIsrael-nonIsraeli who made it seem like the indigenous peoples conquered by Arabians evaporated into thin air and all the people on the land afterwards (particularly in Palestine and the Levant) were all of Arabian origin.
 
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  • Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Nothing is stopping them to claim that they are Jews.



    Do not expect Jews jump up every time anyone of you feels the urge to tell us who is and who isn't a Jew.
    BTW, you completely disregard all the valuable information that I gave you in my previous posts.
    I understand that it is inconvenient to you, but our conversation will not be able to continue if you will try to make it lopsided.



    Lebanese are not Jews and Jews are not Lebanese.

    By most of the time in last 2 millenia Jews have lived in isolation throughout The World and this has helped to preserve Jewishness until today.

    I thank anti-semitism for that and my thanks are sincere - anti-semitism saved Jews from dissolving like Lebanese do.
    So it should be easy for you to explain why Jews in Africa are Black. Why Jews in Europe are blonde. Why Jews in the Middle East are brown. And why Jews in India are dark skin. I dont think Jews in Europe had snow as a delicacy and the ones in Africa got beaten by the sun and excess vitamin D/melanin over just 2000 years. Lmao!!!
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I am referring to the the ultimate ruler as an administrator. Please tell me how that is wrong linguistically.

    Besides, if you are telling me the lower ranked officials, whom you refer to as administrators or educators were not Arabians, doesn't that dispel the arguments of @proIsrael-nonIsraeli who made it seem like the indigenous peoples conquered by Arabians evaporated into thin air and all the people on the land afterwards (particularly in Palestine and the Levant) were all of Arabian origin.
    Why would you assume "it seem like the indigenous peoples conquered by Arabians evaporated into thin air"

    There was no such claim made, our conversation was specifically related Arabs (or not exactly Arabs as you are trying to present it).

    In fact even after
    failed Bar Kohba revolt and
    dispersal of Jews by Romans and
    Roman's subsequent renaming of Judea to Palestina (actually completely hiding Judea by merging it with Syria and naming it Syria Palestina)
    there were Jews present.
    Where do you think all those yellow Stars of David came that I mentioned earlier - after Arab Muslims conquest of Judea Jews who refused conversion were forced to wear one.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Palestine is an Arab invention. Palestinians sold their illegally-acquired land to Jewish settlers.
    They have no right to claim it back.
    Mr Troll, using semantics/nomenclature to cancel the claims of an indigenous people has already been trashed. Go back a fee pages and read. Dont take us backward because you feel cute and bored and want to seek attention.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    So it should be easy for you to explain why Jews in Africa are Black. Why Jews in Europe are blonde. Why Jews in the Middle East are brown. And why Jews in India are dark skin. I dont think Jews in Europe had snow as a delicacy and the ones in Africa got beaten by the sun and excess vitamin D/melanin over just 2000 years. Lmao!!!
    "So it should be easy for you to explain why Jews in Africa are Black" - could be intermarriage, could be evolution, but you can simply assume that they've converted and they still are Jews.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Why would you assume "it seem like the indigenous peoples conquered by Arabians evaporated into thin air"

    There was no such claim made, our conversation was specifically related Arabs (or not exactly Arabs as you are trying to present it).

    In fact even after
    failed Bar Kohba revolt and
    dispersal of Jews by Romans and
    Roman's subsequent renaming of Judea to Palestina (actually completely hiding Judea by merging it with Syria and naming it Syria Palestina)
    there were Jews present.
    Where do you think all those yellow Stars of David came that I mentioned earlier - after Arab Muslims conquest of Judea Jews who refused conversion were forced to wear one.
    Good point! Now you're talking. So changing the name from Judea to Palestina by the Romans didn't make Jews to disappear. Similarly, changing the name from Canaan to Judea or Samaria or Israel didn't make indigenous or conquered people to evaporate. Names reflected administrative identity and political power, and not the make up of the people of the land. To tell us Palestine or Canaan or ancient Israel, at any given time were exclusively the right of only one people is falsehood. You're proving my case and the case of the indigenous people, who today choose to identify as Palestinians and I am glad.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    It’s true, there really is no such thing as “Palestine.”

    All the countries in the Middle East were artificially drawn up by the West, so why are we going according to their standards? There is no Palestine, no Lebanon, no whatever. It’s all made up.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    "So it should be easy for you to explain why Jews in Africa are Black" - could be intermarriage, could be evolution, but you can simply assume that they've converted and they still are Jews.
    Do you feel slapped by that reality you're admitting to? Shouldn't Jews be a race? An undivided race? One people? We now have a case of "three in one". You are now a racial trinity. Whether it was intermarriage or conversion (certainly not evolution at such short span of time), to the extent your racial makeup got altered to look differently in terms of race, what claims do you then have to make on the basis of genetics to Palestine? Do you now see further, why those who identify today as Palestinians are more entitled to Palestine than your blonde looking Jews and your Black looking Jews?

    As for the Palestinian Jews, the Palestinian Muslims and the Palestinian Christians, pre World War 2, they all looked alike and they all ate hummus and falafel. The entire invention of Israehell is an alien concept to even Jewishness. The reason why orthodox Jews oppose Zionism and the creation of Israehell.

    That is genetics. I believe we are done on that, or I am done.

    If you want to use religion, and want to justify aliens invading and occupying a land based on their religious beliefs, I would simply tell you that lands are owned by people and not by religions. Religions are not persons to own lands. The very reason why a Lebanese Muslim has no claim to Makkah and can't claim Saudi citizenship.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    It’s true, there really is no such thing as “Palestine.”

    All the countries in the Middle East were artificially drawn up by the West, so why are we going according to their standards? There is no Palestine, no Lebanon, no whatever. It’s all made up.
    On that basis, the Chinese can land in Beirut in their tens of millions and take over Lebanon and tell us that there was nothing as Lebanon before a certain time in history, and that they're more entitled to the land by virtues of being descendants of Adam and Eve, as per Chinese belief (if any such exists).
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Good point! Now you're talking. So changing the name from Judea to Palestina by the Romans didn't make Jews to disappear. Similarly, changing the name from Canaan to Judea or Samaria or Israel didn't make indigenous or conquered people to evaporate. Names reflected administrative identity and political power, and not the make up of the people of the land. To tell us Palestine or Canaan or ancient Israel, at any given time were exclusively the right of only one people is falsehood. You're proving my case and the case of the indigenous people, who today choose to identify as Palestinians and I am glad.
    "Similarly, changing the name from Canaan to Judea or Samaria or Israel didn't make indigenous or conquered people to evaporate"
    "Similarly" does not apply because each people have their own history.
    However, I am willing to tolerate the possibility to some degree.
    See, if you have people who suddenly became Canaanites it raises suspicion, but it does not eliminate the possibility.
    My answer - DNA test.
    We do not have sample of Samaritan, but we can can at least deduce that person does not belong to any known gene pool and by virtue of residing in the area possibility of being Samaritan, Canaanite, Hittite, Filistine, etc ... raises.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Do you feel slapped by that reality you're admitting to? Shouldn't Jews be a race? An undivided race? One people? We now have a case of "three in one". You are now a racial trinity. Whether it was intermarriage or conversion (certainly not evolution at such short span of time), to the extent your racial makeup got altered to look differently in terms of race, what claims do you then have to make on the basis of genetics to Palestine? Do you now see further, why those who identify today as Palestinians are more entitled to Palestine than your blonde looking Jews and your Black looking Jews?

    As for the Palestinian Jews, the Palestinian Muslims and the Palestinian Christians, pre World War 2, they all looked alike and they all ate hummus and falafel. The entire invention of Israehell is an alien concept to even Jewishness. The reason why orthodox Jews oppose Zionism and the creation of Israehell.

    That is genetics. I believe we are done on that, or I am done.

    If you want to use religion, and want to justify aliens invading and occupying a land based on their religious beliefs, I would simply tell you that lands are owned by people and not by religions. Religions are not persons to own lands. The very reason why a Lebanese Muslim has no claim to Makkah and can't claim Saudi citizenship.
    "Shouldn't Jews be a race? An undivided race?" - why should we. If you can define Jews as "People of Covenant" genes and dogma fall neatly into place.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    On that basis, the Chinese can land in Beirut in their tens of millions and take over Lebanon and tell us that there was nothing as Lebanon before a certain time in history, and that they're more entitled to the land by virtues of being descendants of Adam and Eve, as per Chinese belief (if any such exists).
    But they won’t, because Beirut doesn’t hold any special affinity to any Chinese ethnic group.

    However, the Holy Land does so for the Jews.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    "Similarly, changing the name from Canaan to Judea or Samaria or Israel didn't make indigenous or conquered people to evaporate"
    "Similarly" does not apply because each people have their own history.
    However, I am willing to tolerate the possibility to some degree.
    See, if you have people who suddenly became Canaanites it raises suspicion, but it does not eliminate the possibility.
    My answer - DNA test.
    We do not have sample of Samaritan, but we can can at least deduce that person does not belong to any known gene pool and by virtue of residing in the area possibility of being Samaritan, Canaanite, Hittite, Filistine, etc ... raises.
    Your problem, not mine, is forcing a religious identity into an ethnic or racial identity. Once someone becomes a Judaist, you tag him from the Jewish race and you even monopolize the Semitic identity, which is ours in reality. That is why you have Black, Blonde and Brown Jews. If anyone needs DNA tests, it is yourselves and not others you found living on the land.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    "Shouldn't Jews be a race? An undivided race?" - why should we. If you can define Jews as "People of Covenant" genes and dogma fall neatly into place.
    That is dishonesty on your part.

    When you're claiming a land, no one career about your beliefs. Do you belong there, is the question to answer. You can pray and worship anywhere and visit. But do you have the right to claim lands, if you're a Judaist from Ethiopia or Poland?
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    But they won’t, because Beirut doesn’t hold any special affinity to any Chinese ethnic group.

    However, the Holy Land does so for the Jews.
    No one is denying Jews also belong to the land. But the question now is which Jews? The term "Jew" is both ethnic and religious. They're using religion to rob others of their possession. It is Jews who are denying the right of others who aren't Judaists or who do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic over time, their right to the land, even if they're indigenous.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Your problem, not mine, is forcing a religious identity into an ethnic or racial identity. Once someone becomes a Judaist, you tag him from the Jewish race and you even monopolize the Semitic identity, which is ours in reality. That is why you have Black, Blonde and Brown Jews. If anyone needs DNA tests, it is yourselves and not others you found living on the land.
    "Your problem, not mine, is forcing a religious identity into an ethnic or racial identity" - I am not forcing anything, with Jews it comes naturally.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    That is dishonesty on your part.

    When you're claiming a land, no one career about your beliefs. Do you belong there, is the question to answer. You can pray and worship anywhere and visit. But do you have the right to claim lands, if you're a Judaist from Ethiopia or Poland?
    "That is dishonesty on your part" - I am not sure how you can see it as dishonest while my responses are perfectly honest and perfectly logical, but it's up to you.

    "When you're claiming a land, no one career about your beliefs" - of course so.
    Had it been otherwise Arabs of Palestine would've either packed up and left or agreed to live peacefully side-by-side.

    "You can pray and worship anywhere and visit" - so what you are saying Muslim is perfectly fine without Mecca and Medina, right?

    "But do you have the right to claim lands, if you're a Judaist from Ethiopia or Poland?" - I have right to my home.
    I suggest you concentrate less on varieties of Jews and more on the fact that Arabs (varieties of) have no business claiming Jewish Land as their own.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    "Your problem, not mine, is forcing a religious identity into an ethnic or racial identity" - I am not forcing anything, with Jews it comes naturally.
    You're making it seem like the Jewish identity is the only factor that gives credibility and exclusive right to Palestine. The Jewish identify is just one of many others that have come and gone. Nothing special. Your problem is racism and greed.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    "That is dishonesty on your part" - I am not sure how you can see it as dishonest while my responses are perfectly honest and perfectly logical, but it's up to you.

    "When you're claiming a land, no one career about your beliefs" - of course so.
    Had it been otherwise Arabs of Palestine would've either packed up and left or agreed to live peacefully side-by-side.
    Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Muslims, and Palestinian Christians were living side by side. Israehell came to exclude others. There is no logic in dispossessing others of their land and still shamelessly claiming you want to live side by side.

    "You can pray and worship anywhere and visit" - so what you are saying Muslim is perfectly fine without Mecca and Medina, right?
    I do not as a Muslim need to invade and occupy Arabia because there are places I regard as holy places to my faith.

    If 80% of Saudis adopt Buddhism in the future, I would be content with my coreligionists having the right to take care of sites holy to my faith and having the right to visit.

    "But do you have the right to claim lands, if you're a Judaist from Ethiopia or Poland?" - I have right to my home.
    I suggest you concentrate less on varieties of Jews and more on the fact that Arabs (varieties of) have no business claiming Jewish Land as their own.
    At least we have made progress. You now understand there is a variety of Arabs.

    I would also concentrate on the variety of Jews because it exposes your claims, whether genetics, historical, religious or racial claims to the land. How can a blonde Polish Jew and a Black Ethiopian Jew both have more rights and even exclusive rights to a land with a people that belong to the land? You guys are mad and drunk with power. You should enjoy your apartheid state while it lasts.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    No one is denying Jews also belong to the land. But the question now is which Jews? The term "Jew" is both ethnic and religious. They're using religion to rob others of their possession. It is Jews who are denying the right of others who aren't Judaists or who do not speak Hebrew or Aramaic over time, their right to the land, even if they're indigenous.
    What do you mean “which Jews?” The only Jews who were immigrating en mass to the Levant were European, and that’s mostly because of what was happening in Europe at the time.
     
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