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Picasso

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
‘Islamic capitalism’ faces secular resistance

Monday, December 18, 2006


Mustafa AKYOL

ISTANBUL - Turkish Daily News


One of my primary school memories is of “domestic goods week.” Our teachers used to order us to bring all kinds of authentic Turkish products, such as nuts, raisins and figs, to our classrooms and eat them collectively to celebrate the homegrown wonders of our motherland. “Don't ever buy foreign products,” our teachers also said. “If you do so, foreigners will be exploiting us and our nation will become their slave.”

That was in the early '80s, at a time when Turkey was run by a military dictatorship and still believed in the import-subsidization policies of the past two decades, which had been compatible with the economic wisdom of the times. Then came the Turgut ضzal years (1983-93) during which Turkey opened its borders to foreign goods and capital and started to build a real market economy. Along with his good friends Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, Prime Minister (and later President) ضzal was a revolutionary leader who argued that free markets are the only path to economic prosperity. His motto was “the three freedoms” -- of ideas, worship and entrepreneurship.



The Kemalist-socialist synthesis: Yet the spirit of “domestic goods week” never vanished. ضzal's political opponents continuously accused him of deviating from the path of Atatürk, Turkey's revered founder. One of Atatürk's Six Principles was “statism,” which was actually a practical solution in the years of global stagnation following the Great Depression. Moreover, Turks had the bad memory of the “capitulations,” the unfair economic concessions given to foreign investors centuries ago, and which had been hazardous to the economy of the late Ottoman Empire.

After Atatürk, the combination of statism and the “anti-capitulationist” allergy to foreign capital became even more vindicated thanks to the rise of socialistic ideas among Turkey's intellectual elite. The same elite used to accuse the non-Kemalists -- who came to power in 1950 during Turkey's first free and fair elections -- of being agents of “American imperialism” and “international finance.” ضzal was the perfect scapegoat for the proponents of this “Kemalist left,” but since 2002, there is an even better one: The Justice and Development Party (AKP) government led by Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.



AKP and business: Not everybody in Turkey is the greatest fan of Erdoğan's government, especially because of its Islamic credentials, but virtually nobody can deny its pro-business attitude. As Wall Street Journal Editor Matthew Kaminski noted (in his Oct. 22 piece, “Turkish Tiger”), the government has initiated “the most far-reaching privatization program in Turkish history” and has created “a thriving Muslim market economy with a large, independent private sector and a shrinking state.”

Local businessmen agree. “We see that the conditions of economic freedom are improving,” says Jeffrey P. Kemprecos, the Istanbul-based Director of External Affairs of the Merck Sharp & Dohme Pharmaceuticals. “Generally, foreign investment and technology transfer is welcomed, and in recent years, Turkey has taken steps to ensure intellectual property rights.” Indeed attracting more foreign direct investment is one the government's most ambitious goals. Some of its staunchly secular critics accuse it of bringing in “Arab money,” but it has been welcoming Israeli financiers as well. “Whoever wants to invest in my country is welcome,” said Erdoğan in a famous speech. “Money has no religion or nationality.” This is, of course, all bad news to the champions of the Kemalist left. They deeply abhor public religion and capitalism, and now they are getting both.



Globalization as colonialism? Those who are alarmed by the rise of what some have called “Islamic capitalism” are not only the campus Trotskyites but also some of the top officials of the state, including President Ahmet Necdet Sezer. In an address on Nov. 10, the anniversary of Atatürk's death, Sezer gave a reminder that Turkey had prospered in Atatürk's time “thanks to a fully independent economic policy.” Turkey should resist globalization, the president added, “because it is indeed colonialism; they [the colonialists] couldn't succeed with guns, now they are trying it through economics.” In recent years Mr. Sezer and the like-minded Constitutional Court have vetoed several new pieces of legislation that would have helped attract more “colonialism,” i.e., investment. (That's why many foreign investors are unhappy about the never-ending impediments of “the bureaucracy.”)

The country's generals seem to think along the same lines. Gen. Yener Karahanoğlu, the chief of the navy, recently declared “imperialism and universal capitalism” to be the enemies of the Turkish Republic, along with “irtica,” a euphemism for public Islam. The speakers of the main opposition party, the Republican People's Party (CHP), repeatedly echo the same messages.

And all this creates an interesting contrast with Turkey's age-old modernization rhetoric. A government with a Muslim outlook is championing economic freedom, whereas the secularists, who traditionally define themselves as “modernists” and “progressives,” are standing against it. It is a new Turkey in which faith and freedom flourish hand in hand. Max Weber and Alexis de Tocqueville should have lived to see.
 
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  • LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    picasso . whats the point of this threads ? glorifying turkey ? demonising it ? almost everyone here is not friendly with the turks .

    turkey is like borats kazakhistan . i do know some turkish and watch their news , most of it is abt local fights , this killed that and so on , dont be fooled with some of what you see in the modern part of istambul or ankara , or the touristic compounds , outside is the old ottoman empire , with poverty and wife beating men.
     
    Jay

    Jay

    Active Member
    picasso . whats the point of this threads ? glorifying turkey ? demonising it ? almost everyone here is not friendly with the turks .

    turkey is like borats kazakhistan . i do know some turkish and watch their news , most of it is abt local fights , this killed that and so on , dont be fooled with some of what you see in the modern part of istambul or ankara , or the touristic compounds , outside is the old ottoman empire , with poverty and wife beating men.
    What is your point?
    <o:p> </o:p>
    In <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Lebanon</st1:country-region></st1:place> you still have people who beat their wives (still not as much as those who beat their husbands though)
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Don’t let your hate drive you
    <o:p> </o:p>
    [FONT=&quot]Break free [/FONT]
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    What is your point?
    <o:p> </o:p>
    In <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Lebanon</st1:country-region></st1:place> you still have people who beat their wives (still not as much as those who beat their husbands though)
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Don’t let your hate drive you
    <o:p> </o:p>
    [FONT=&quot]Break free [/FONT]
    jay :wink:

    its a turkish tradition the beeting wife thing. non turks who live in turkey also adopt that tradition , and carry it with them whenever they go .

    im free :) i know many turks , dont worry about me.
     
    Picasso

    Picasso

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    LebArmenian

    تركيا في النادي البنّاء

    تركيا اليوم كما تاريخياً صاحبة تجربة غنية، ولا يمكن أن تتخذ من بعض الأحداث التاريخية الأليمة منطلقاً لهجاء تركيا بعيداً من فهم أهميتها وغناها ودورها

    اليوم، تحاول تركيا الدخول إلى الاتحاد الأوروبي، هذا يعني مزيداً من الانفتاح والازدهار، هذا يعني مزيداً من الحريات والديمقراطية. الذي يقود تركيا للدخول إلى الاتحاد الاوروبي هو حزب العدالة والتنمية، الآتي من بيئات لا "تحبذ" مؤسس تركيا الحديثة أتاتورك، لكنها أيضاً لا تنوي إحياء الماضي العثماني

    لا يمكن أن نظل نعيش في مستقبل ماضينا، على الأرمن أن يتطلعوا إلى المستقبل ولا يغرقوا في إنتاج مخاوف الماضي وهواجسه. كثيرون في الغرب لا يطالبون تركيا بالاعتذار محبةً بكم لكن طمعاً بمصادر الطاقة. هذا لا يعني أنّ على تركيا أن لا تعير جراحكم أذناً، لكن لا يمكن لكم باسم الجراح أن تجعلوا الحاضرَ ينزفُ لتهربَ من أمام الأرمن والأتراك فرص التعاون لأجل بلدين حرين مستقلين و... مزدهرين

    im free :) i know many turks , dont worry about me.

    بلى، أنا قلق عليك، لأنكَ لا ترى الموضوعَ من جوانبه المختلفة

    أن تكونَ حراً يعني أن تتطلع إلى الأمام وتسير، لا أن تظل تردد ما تربيتَ عليه لتكونَ مشاركاً في توفير الظروف لحروب وصدامات جديدة بين تركيا وأرمينيا

    لا عجبَ أنكَ لبناني أيضاً، فاللبنانيون لا يقرأونَ في تاريخهم ولا يرَوْنَ سوى أحقاد الماضي والأنفاق
    ولهذا تراهم لا يبنونَ وطناً ويتناحرون

    اكشفْ هذه الغشاوة عن عينيك
    الاوروبيون تجاوزوا حروباً دموية لأجل الوحدة والقوة
    وفي هذا العالم لا قوةَ ولا ازدهار إلا للتكتلات وتركيا جار مهم لكم ويجدر بكم أن تتكاملوا معها

    وأن تعرف بعض الأتراك لا يعني أنك تعرف الواقع التركي

    اقرأ أكثر


     
    orangekid

    orangekid

    Active Member
    Turkey is a place that claims secularism but its people are the most sectarian of all. They are violating human rights by what they are doing to Kurds and other communities. They tend to give an image of openess about themselves while they are extremly behind. I am against their entry to E.U. and feel that all of our problems are inherited from the Turkish age.
     
    zevaco

    zevaco

    Active Member
    picasso . whats the point of this threads ? glorifying turkey ? demonising it ? almost everyone here is not friendly with the turks .

    turkey is like borats kazakhistan . i do know some turkish and watch their news , most of it is abt local fights , this killed that and so on , dont be fooled with some of what you see in the modern part of istambul or ankara , or the touristic compounds , outside is the old ottoman empire , with poverty and wife beating men.
    How refreshing, enlightening, objective, non-childish, non-stereotyping and respectful.

    I understand you hold a grudge, and I sympathize with you, but what you said above is far, far from being useful/meaningful (not to use other terms).
     
    orangekid

    orangekid

    Active Member
    How refreshing, enlightening, objective, non-childish, non-stereotyping and respectful.

    I understand you hold a grudge, and I sympathize with you, but what you said above is far, far from being useful/meaningful (not to use other terms).
    You don't have the right to say that. You have to respect LebArmenian view of the subject and his ideas objectively. In fact i totally agree with LebArmenian and i think u should rather care about how to kick the Turkish forces (in the south) out of our country. Turkey have plunged us into mysery, secterianism, wars, divisions, retardation, etc...... They have massacred millions of Armenian, they are cooperating with "israel", they are opressing kurds and christians, Why should we like them.

    I want to tell you, since i don't recognize "israel" as a country, turkey will be the country that i hate the most on this planet really!!:thumbdown:
     
    Lebanese-Nationalist

    Lebanese-Nationalist

    Well-Known Member
    picasso . whats the point of this threads ? glorifying turkey ? demonising it ? almost everyone here is not friendly with the turks .

    turkey is like borats kazakhistan . i do know some turkish and watch their news , most of it is abt local fights , this killed that and so on , dont be fooled with some of what you see in the modern part of istambul or ankara , or the touristic compounds , outside is the old ottoman empire , with poverty and wife beating men.
    So Turkey is like Iran?
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    So Turkey is like Iran?
    do you just write for the sake of writing ? do you count to 10 or think about what you're writing ? it would really be good to do so.

    i have many iranian-armenian friends and they have their schools and churches and press etc..

    but , im wasting time on you since you're a hopeless case.
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    In Memory Of The 50 Million Victims Of The Orthodox Christian Holocaust
    Compiled by Rev. Archimandrite Nektarios Serfes
    Boise, Idaho
    U.S.A.
    October 1999

    Written by Reverend Father Raphael Moore
    (Reprinted from Holy Transfiguration Greek Orthodox Church Sioux Falls, SD., Protopresbtyer Benjamin Henderson, Priest)

    History Of Asia Minor: 1894-1923

    During 1894-1923 the Ottoman Empire conducted a policy of Genocide of the Christian population living within its extensive territory. The Sultan, Abdul Hamid, first put forth an official governmental policy of genocide against the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire in 1894.

    Systematic massacres took place in 1894-1896 when Abdul savagely killed 300,000 Armenians throughout the provinces. Massacres recurred, and in 1909 government troops killed, in the towns of Adana alone, over 20,000 Christian Armenians.

    When WW1 broke out the The Ottoman Empire was ruled by the "Young Turk" dictatorship which allied itself with Germany. Turkish government decided to eliminate the whole of the Christian population of Greeks, Armenians, Syrians and Nestorians. The government slogan, "Turkey for the Turks", served to encourage Turkish civilians on a policy of ethnic cleansing.

    The next step of the Armenian Genocide began on 24 April 1915 with the mass arrest, and ultimate murder, of religious, political and intellectual leaders in Constantinople and elsewhere in the empire. Then, in every Armenian community, a carefully planned Genocide unfolded: Arrest of clergy and other prominent persons, disarmament of the population and Armenian soldiers serving in the Ottoman army, segregation and public execution of leaders and able-bodied men, and the deportation to the deserts of the remaining Armenian women, children and elderly. Renowned historian Arnold Toynbee wrote that "the crime was concerted very systematically for there is evidence of identical procedure from over fifty places."

    The Genocide started from the border districts and seacoasts, and worked inland to the most remote hamlets. Over 1.5 million Armenian Christians, including over 4,000 bishops and priests, were killed in this step of the Genocide.

    The Greek Christians, particularly in the Black Sea area known as Pontus, who had been suffering from Turkish persecutions and murders all the while, saw the Turks turn more fiercely on them as WW1 came to a close. The Allied Powers, at a peace conference in Paris in 1919, rewarded Greece for her support by inviting Prime Minister Venizelos to occupy the city of Smyrna with its rich hinterlands, and they placed the province under Greek control. This action greatly angered the Turks. The Greek occupation was a peaceful one but drew immediate fire from Turkish forces in the outlying areas. When the Greek army farmed out to protect its people, a full-fledged war broke out between Greece and Turkey (the Greco-Turkish war).

    The Treaty of Sevres, signed in 1920 to end WW1 and which provided for an independent Armenia, was never ratified. The treaty's terms changed not long after the ink dried as England, France and Italy each began secretly bargaining with Mustafa Kemel (Ataturk) in order to gain the right to exploit oil fields in the Mozul (now Iraq). Betrayed by the Allied Powers, the Greek military front, after 40 long months of war, collapsed and retreated as the Turks began again to occupy Asia Minor.

    September 1922 signaled the end of the Greek and Armenian presence in the city of Smyrna. On 9 September 1922, the Turks entered Smyrna; and after systematically murdering the Armenians in their own homes, the forces of Ataturk turned on the Greeks whose numbers had swelled, with the addition of refugees who had fled their villages in Turkey's interior, to upwards of 400,000 men, women and children.

    The conquering Turks went from house to house, looting, pillaging, raping and murdering the population. Finally, when the wind had turned so that it was blowing toward the sea so that the small Turkish quarter at the rear of the city was not in danger, Turkish forces, led by their officers, poured kerosene on the buildings and homes of the Greek and Armenian sectors and set them afire. Thus, any remaining live inhabitants of the city were flushed out to be caught between a wall of fire and the sea. The pier of Smyrna became a scene of final desperation as the approaching flames forced many thousands to jump to their death or to be consumed by fire.

    The Allied warships and shore patrol of the French, British and American military were eyewitnesses to the events. George Horton, the American Consul in Smyrna, likened the finale at Smyrna to the Roman destruction of Carthage. He is quoted in Smyrna (1922, written by Marjorie Dobkin) as saying: Yet there was not fleet of Christian battleships at Carthage looking on a situation for which their governments were responsible." This horrible act unleashed the last phase of the genocide against the Christians of Turkish Asia Minor.

    On 9 September 1997, a series of speakers and memorial services, honoring the memory of the 3.5 million Christians who were murdered by Turkish persecutions from 1894-1923, were held in the greater Baltimore Washington area. The memorial service was conducted by the choirs of St. Mary's Armenian Church, St. Katherine's Greek Orthodox Church, Fr. George Alexson of St. Katherine's, Fr. Vertanes Katayjian of St. Mary's and other Orthodox clergy.
    The 75th anniversary of the Christian Holocaust was memorialized on 9 September 1997, the date in 1922 of the destruction of the city of Smyrna. This memorial honors the memory of over 3.5 million Christians who were murdered by Turkish persecutions from 1894-1923. Not only was this the memorial of the Holocaust of Smyrna (now Izmir) and the martyrdom of Smyrna's Metropolitan Chrysostomos, but also of the 3.5 million Christians who perished during the first Holocaust of this century. But the events of 1922 are not an isolated incident. The atrocities committed by Turkish forces against a civilian population began before WW1 and have never ended. This event seeks to expose the continuum of a Turkish campaign of persecution, deportation, and murder designed to rid Asia of its Christian populace.

    GREEKS
    1914 400,000 conscripts perished in forced labor brigades
    1922 100,000 massacred or burned alive in Smyrna
    1916-1922 350,000 Pontions massacred or killed during forced deportations
    1914-1922 900,000 perish from maltreatment, starvation and massacres; total of all other areas of Asia Minor
    TOTAL: 1,750,000 Greek Christians martyred 1914-1922

    ARMENIANS
    1894-1896 300,000 massacred
    1915-1916 1,500,000 perish in massacres and forced deportations (with subsidiaries to 1923)
    1922 30,000 massacred or burned alive in Smyrna
    TOTAL: 1,800,000 Armenian Christians martyred 1894-1923

    SYRIANS AND NESTORIANS
    1915-1917 100,000 Christians massacred


    The native population of Asia Minor traces its Christian roots to the early days of Christianity. the Armenians, an ancient people, trace their origins back 2500 years. In 301 AD. the Armenian King Dftad declared Christianity as the kingdom's official religion, making Armenia the first Christian political state in the world. The migration of Greek tribes to Asia Minor began just before 2,000 BC and the Greeks built dozens of cities such as Smyrna, Phocaea, Pergamon, Ephesus and Byzantium (Constantinople). The native inhabitants of Asia Minor, among the first to accept the message of Christianity, were later to be persecuted and uprooted from their lands because of that same faith. Turkish tribes plagued the region. Later another tribe, the Oyuz Turks who embraced Islam and ultimately produced the Ottoman Turks, conquered Persia, the Caliphate of Baghdad, and then the whole area presently occupied by Syria, Iraq and Palestine.

    Under the Ottoman Empire the Christians suffered a steady decline. Forced conversions to Islam, the abduction of children to serve in the fanatical Janissary corps, persecutions and oppression reduced the Christian population. Oppression intensified, leading to Genocide. Christian clergy were a constant target of Turkish persecution, particularly once the 1894 policy of Armenian genocide had been declared by sultan Abdul Hamid.

    Victims of horrible torture, many Orthodox clergy were martyred for their faith. Among the first was Metropolitan Chrysostomos who was martyred, not just to kill a man but, to insult a sacred religion and an ancient and honorable people. Chrysostomos was enthroned as Metropolitan of Smyrna on 10 May 1910. Metropolitan Chrysostomos courageously opposed the anti Christian rage of the turks and sought to raise international pressure against the persecution of Turkish Christians. He wrote many letters to European leaders and to the western press in an effort to expose the genocide policies of the Turks. In 1922, in unprotected Smyrna, Chrysostomos said to those begging him to flee: "It is the tradition of the Greek Church and the duty of the priest to stay with his congregation."

    On 9 September crowds were rushing into the cathedral for shelter when Chrysostomos, pale from fasting and lack of sleep, led his last prayer. The Divine Liturgy ended as Turkish police came to the church and led Chrysostomos away. The Turkish General Nouredin Pasha, known as the "butcher of Ionia", first spat on the Metropolitan and informed him that a tribunal in Angora (now Ankara) had already condemned him to death. A mob fell upon Chrysostomos and tore out his eyes. Bleeding profusely, he was dragged through the streets by his beard. He was beaten and kicked and parts of his body were cut off. All the while Chrysostomos, his face covered with blood, prayed: "Holy Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Every now and then, when he had the strength, he would raise his hand and bless his persecutors; a Turk, realizing what the Metropolitan was doing, cut off his hand with a sword. Metropolitan Chrysostomos was then hacked to pieced by the angry mob.

    Among the hundreds of Armenian clergy who were persecuted and murdered were Bishop Khosrov Behrigian and Very Reverend Father Mgrdich' Chghladian.

    Bishop Behrigian (1869-1915) was born in Zara and became the primate for the Diocese of Caesarea/Kayseri in 1915. He was arrested by Turkish police upon his return from Etchmiadzin where he had just been consecrated bishop. Informed of his fate, the bishop asked for a bullet to the head. Deliberately ignoring his request, the police tied him to a "yataghan" where sheep were butchered an then proceeded to hack his body apart while he was still alive.

    Father Chghladian was born in Tatvan. In May 1915, as part of the campaign of mass arrests, deportations and murders, the priest was tortured and displayed in a procession, led by sheiks and dervishes while accompanied by drums, through the streets of Dikranagerd. Once the procession returned to the mosque, in the presence of government officials, the sheiks poured oil over the priest and burned him alive.

    Four of the martyred bishops who were murdered between 1921-1922 are today elevated to sainthood in the Greek Orthodox Church: They are, in addition to Metropolitan Chrysostomos, Bishops Efthimios, Gregorios and Ambrosios.

    Bishop Efthimios of Amasia was captured by the Turkish police and tortured daily for 41 days. In the last days of his life he chanted his own funeral memorial until finally dying in his cell on 29 May 1921. Three days later a written order for his execution arrived from Mustafa Kemal (Ataturk).


    Metropolitan Gregorios of Kydonion remained with his church until the end, helping 20,000 of his 35,000 parishioners escape to Mytilene and other free parts of Greece. On 3 October 1922, the remaining 15,000 Orthodox Christians were executed; the Metropolitan was saved in order to be buried alive.

    Metropolitan Ambrosios of Moshonesion, along with 12 priests and 6,000 Christians, were sent by the Turks on a forced deportation march to Central Asia Minor. All of them perished on the road, some slain by Turkish irregulars and civilians, the remainder left to die of starvation. Bishop Ambrosios died on 15 September 1922 when Turkish police nailed horseshoes to his feet and then cut his body into pieces.

    "I was five or six years old in 1922, and I still remember the songs of Akrita and the mourning of the Greek women who carried baskets full of severed heads down from the mountains. I will never forget the women who suddenly realized that one of the heads in the basket she carried was that of her son." - Constantine Koukides, refugee from Pontius
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS

    ...
    ...
    However, as a result of the 1974 Turkish invasion and the illegal occupation of 36.4% of Cyprus’s territory, the cultural and religious heritage in the area not under the effective control of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus, has been subjected to the most violent and systematic destruction. As a result of the ongoing policy of pillage, destruction and disrespect of the occupation authorities towards the religious and cultural heritage of Cyprus, hundreds of historic and religious monuments in various regions of the occupied area have been destroyed, looted and vandalized. Illegal excavations have been carried out and art treasures have been stolen from museums and private collections and sold abroad.

    According to information provided by the competent authorities of the Government of Cyprus, more than 500 Greek Orthodox churches and chapels and 17 monasteries located in towns and villages of the occupied area, have been pillaged, deliberately vandalized and in some cases, demolished. Until today, the whereabouts of the ecclesiastical items of these churches, including more than 15 000 portable icons, remain unknown. Moreover, it is estimated by the Cyprus police that since 1974 more than 60 000 ancient artifacts have been illegally transferred to different countries around the world. The most significant and priceless icons came in possession of auction houses and were illegally sold by art dealers abroad.

    The fact that more than 133 churches, chapels and monasteries have been desecrated, 77 churches have been converted into mosques, 28 are being used by the occupation forces as depots, dormitories or hospitals, 13 are used as stockyards or hay barns, clearly proves that the target of the occupation authorities has always been the religious and cultural heritage in the northern part of Cyprus. In particular, the recent conversion of the church of Agia Anastasia, in the occupied village of Lapithos (Kyrenia region), into a luxurious hotel and casino and the use of the Armenian Monastery of Sourp Magar (founded in the Medieval period) as a cafeteria, constitute concrete proof of the illicit purposes of the occupation authorities. Furthermore, such actions prove that not only the Orthodox Church, but the Armenian and the Latin Churches of Cyprus have also been victims of such plunder and have suffered considerable loses.

    Due to the Turkish invasion, all the legitimate archaeological excavations in the districts of Ammochostos, Kyrenia and Morfou were interrupted. Unfortunately, it has been reported that all items permanently exhibited in museums in the occupied area, as well as the unregistered material from the storehouses of foreign archaeological missions, were also looted and illegally exported abroad.
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    Massacres in Cyprus

    Turkeys invasion of Cyprus and what followed .
    []


    1600+ men, women and children still missing



    up to 70,000 held hostage in concentration camps



    5000+ massacred



    thousands raped and tortured
    200,000 ethnically cleansed



    500+ churches desecrated or destroyed


    There is also the question of the property of the Orthodox Church which Turkey will have address. Over 500 Churches have subject to systematise plundering, destruction and desecration by Turkey. Up to 15,000 priceless Byzantine icons and religious vessels have been stole and sold on the black market, many irreplaceable mosaics were ripped from the walls and floors of church building to suffer the same fate. Churches and their out-buildings have been turned into sheep pens, brothels and public latrines, as well as hotels and tourist complex's resulting in the utter annihilation of entire grave yards.

    Since Turkey has already been found guilty of these crimes against humanity by the European Commission of Human Rights on two previous occasions Turkey will have to pay for the Churches to be restored and the icons, vessels and mosaics to be recovered. A conservative estimate would put the cost of this at approximately £40,000,000 Cyprus pounds for every Church, totalling £20,000,000,000 Cyprus pounds.

    The estimated total amount of reparations which Turkey must pay is £240 Billion Cyprus pounds or $360 Billion US dollars.

    Turkey cannot expect to be rewarded for the crimes it has committed in Cyprus and the Cypriot refugees cannot be expected to bear the burden of Turkeys destruction of their cultural heritage and livelihood a second time.

    Turkey must be compelled to pay reparations by the West or else face isolation.
     
    shadow1

    shadow1

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Ya Lebarmenian.
    At what stage does one say we cant hold a particular nation responsible for what our ancestors do? Isnt christianity essentially a religion of forgiveness?

    No one denies the brutality of the Ottoman empire against all the people it subjugated but does it serve Armenia's interests to be in eternal state of enmity with Turkey, a much bigger country? Even this most recent history in Cyprus should me remedied or else the vicious circle never ends. Try to think more like an Armenian and less like a Lebanese. Lebanon offers the worst kind of coexistence in the world if there ever was one. Not all nations are built on mutual deception.
     
    GMA forever

    GMA forever

    Well-Known Member
    At what stage does one say we cant hold a particular nation responsible for what our ancestors do?
    I think when the turks will recognise those massacres, and appologise for committing them, then someone can ask the armenians or the greek cypriots to forgive.
     
    LebArmenian

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    Ya Lebarmenian.
    At what stage does one say we cant hold a particular nation responsible for what our ancestors do? Isnt christianity essentially a religion of forgiveness?

    No one denies the brutality of the Ottoman empire against all the people it subjugated but does it serve Armenia's interests to be in eternal state of enmity with Turkey, a much bigger country? Even this most recent history in Cyprus should me remedied or else the vicious circle never ends. Try to think more like an Armenian and less like a Lebanese. Lebanon offers the worst kind of coexistence in the world if there ever was one. Not all nations are built on mutual deception.
    i never knew that it was the ottoman empire who attacked cyprus !
     
    GeaGea SkyWalkeR

    GeaGea SkyWalkeR

    New Member
    i never knew that it was the ottoman empire who attacked cyprus !
    Oh please what makes that war any different to any other war a chrisitan country has had in the last 40 years, JACK thats what,

    And other then that the greeks and and cyprians were not exactly angels.
    Good luck to Turkey, There nation is prospering, They are becoming more advanced and more powerful by the day,

    I salute you TURKEY.
     
    blossom

    blossom

    Active Member
    Oh please what makes that war any different to any other war a chrisitan country has had in the last 40 years, JACK thats what,

    And other then that the greeks and and cyprians were not exactly angels.
    Good luck to Turkey, There nation is prospering, They are becoming more advanced and more powerful by the day,

    I salute you TURKEY.
    yes it seems you know a lot about Turkey.
    i salute your information!!!
     
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