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United Kingdom is a Police State!

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Expired tv license lands you a fine, saying something wrong on Twitter depends what it is... everything is clear and you know what you are risking when you undertake it... I feel better that consequences for actions are clear and not left to common sense (which will trigger inequality and preferential treatment discussions)...

Actually, everything is not clear.

The story of Muslim immigrants grooming white girls for prostitution was covered up so as not to "create anti-Muslim sentiments."

A TV documentary crew used hidden cameras to film preachers in a mosque teaching their followers to hate the Britons who welcomed them into their country, and the authorities did nothing.

Meanwhile, a Canadian activist was banned from entering the UK because of her anti-islam stances.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Actually, everything is not clear.

The story of Muslim immigrants grooming white girls for prostitution was covered up so as not to "create anti-Muslim sentiments."

A TV documentary crew used hidden cameras to film preachers in a mosque teaching their followers to hate the Britons who welcomed them into their country, and the authorities did nothing.

Meanwhile, a Canadian activist was banned from entering the UK because of her anti-islam stances.

Just because you don’t see what they are doing doesn’t mean they are not doing anything.
in fact, please look up the prevent act which clearly defines what terrorism is, and I think the UK has gone further by talking about not only attacks, but also speech andline of thinking which the leftists criticise... here is an excerpt below, with the definition. They are very much in control of what is clear/known/seen... not to say that nothing can pass, but I think they are neither a police state, nor a flimsy one.

the government has defined extremism as: “vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. We also include in our definition of extremism calls for the death of members of our armed forces, whether in this country or overseas”. There is a range of extremist individuals and organisations, including Islamists, the far right and others. As the greatest risk to our security comes from Al Qa’ida and like-minded groups, and terrorist ideologies draw on and make use of extremist ideas, we believe it is also necessary to define the ideology of Islamist extremism.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Just because you don’t see what they are doing doesn’t mean they are not doing anything.
in fact, please look up the prevent act which clearly defines what terrorism is, and I think the UK has gone further by talking about not only attacks, but also speech andline of thinking which the leftists criticise... here is an excerpt below, with the definition. They are very much in control of what is clear/known/seen... not to say that nothing can pass, but I think they are neither a police state, nor a flimsy one.

the government has defined extremism as: “vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. We also include in our definition of extremism calls for the death of members of our armed forces, whether in this country or overseas”. There is a range of extremist individuals and organisations, including Islamists, the far right and others. As the greatest risk to our security comes from Al Qa’ida and like-minded groups, and terrorist ideologies draw on and make use of extremist ideas, we believe it is also necessary to define the ideology of Islamist extremism.

Nothing is being done. The documentary crew did a first film. They returned a year later and nothing had changed. The documentary isn't even viewable on official channels anymore, but someone uploaded it on youtube.

 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Nothing is being done. The documentary crew did a first film. They returned a year later and nothing had changed. The documentary isn't even viewable on official channels anymore, but someone uploaded it on youtube.

So your point is that the UK is a police state? Because I am arguing no....
if your point is that the UK is a leftist state that allows extremism, then also no... does it mean extremists can’t do anything? Once again no...!
And for the record, just because you have a very extreme view of Islam, does not mean everybody sharesit
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So your point is that the UK is a police state? Because I am arguing no....
if your point is that the UK is a leftist state that allows extremism, then also no... does it mean extremists can’t do anything? Once again no...!

My point is exactly what I stated: that some laws are not clear, but rather subjectively applied based on what's fashionable in SJW circles.

And for the record, just because you have a very extreme view of Islam, does not mean everybody sharesit

No offense, but if you watched the documentary and concluded that my views are extreme, you are more brainwashed than I thought.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
My point is exactly what I stated: that some laws are not clear, but rather subjectively applied based on what's fashionable in SJW circles.



No offense, but if you watched the documentary and concluded that my views are extreme, you are more brainwashed than I thought.
My point is exactly what I stated: that some laws are not clear, but rather subjectively applied based on what's fashionable in SJW circles.



No offense, but if you watched the documentary and concluded that my views are extreme, you are more brainwashed than I thought.

it’s not a question of SJW circles... the law is the law and they apply it to the beat of their ability... we don’t live in an utopia. The subject of the thread is that the UK is a police state, and I reacted that it is not... the fact you are debating with me led me to think your view is that the UK is a police state... I don’t share that view.

Net, I don’t speak for The UK government, Yostoflo how they apply their laws, the prevent law however is clear.

Regarding the other comment, I am neither SJW nor brainwashed, and stating “no offense “ doesn’t really help as both are offensive :) your views of Islam, from our previous conversations, are quite extreme. And you already know I don’t share them.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
it’s not a question of SJW circles... the law is the law and they apply it to the beat of their ability...

Well I disproved that with the examples I provided.

we don’t live in an utopia. The subject of the thread is that the UK is a police state, and I reacted that it is not... the fact you are debating with me led me to think your view is that the UK is a police state... I don’t share that view.

Net, I don’t speak for The UK government, Yostoflo how they apply their laws, the prevent law however is clear.

Can't I respond to one part of your post without getting involved in the full debate? :)

For the record, I think the thought-police have too much influence throughout the entire West, not just the UK.

Regarding the other comment, I am neither SJW nor brainwashed, and stating “no offense “ doesn’t really help as both are offensive :) your views of Islam, from our previous conversations, are quite extreme. And you already know I don’t share them.

I genuinely meant no offense :) I tried to come up with better words than "brainwashed" but I genuinely think you are under the influence of the false narrative peddled by the left. If it's any consolation, I used to be even more brainwashed :)

As for your assertion that my views of islam are extreme, you are objectively wrong:

- Cutting limbs as punishment
- Stoning people over sexual transgressions
- Killing those who leave the religion
- Condoning rape and slavery
- Encouraging violent conquests
- Forcing people to choose between conversion, becoming second class citizens, or death
- Encouraging hatred of others
- Encouraging deceit
- Etc.

All these official teachings of islam are not extreme? But my condemnation of them is extreme? Are you serious my friend? :)
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Well I disproved that with the examples I provided.



Can't I respond to one part of your post without getting involved in the full debate? :)

For the record, I think the thought-police have too much influence throughout the entire West, not just the UK.



I genuinely meant no offense :) I tried to come up with better words than "brainwashed" but I genuinely think you are under the influence of the false narrative peddled by the left. If it's any consolation, I used to be even more brainwashed :)

As for your assertion that my views of islam are extreme, you are objectively wrong:

- Cutting limbs as punishment
- Stoning people over sexual transgressions
- Killing those who leave the religion
- Condoning rape and slavery
- Encouraging violent conquests
- Forcing people to choose between conversion, becoming second class citizens, or death
- Encouraging hatred of others
- Encouraging deceit
- Etc.

All these official teachings of islam are not extreme? But my condemnation of them is extreme? Are you serious my friend? :)
You disproved that they try to apply the law as best they can? I don’t think so. I find these videos are more often than not quite extreme in showing one thing and driving one agenda. Both in the right and on the left. To be honest I am usually much more leaning towards the right so I tend to be closer to the rights narrative, but there are things that are too far fetched. The uk police are not 100% over every single aspect but they do a damn good job from what I have seen in the 5+ years I’ve lived here.
Not sure what you mean by thought police though... the law talks about Islamist doctrine as a risk, but it does not Cobden Islam as a religion nor does it forbid people from practicing this religion...

Not going into a debate on Islam in this thread :) but what you described is not the religion, but rather the interpretation of the religion by idiots. It’s equivalent to judging Christianity by looking at the popes selling tickets to paradise ... and please don’t conclude I have any beef with Christianity, I would not be Christian if I did, it is precisely from my Christian perspective that I don’t accept your discrimination against Islam...
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You disproved that they try to apply the law as best they can? I don’t think so. I find these videos are more often than not quite extreme in showing one thing and driving one agenda. Both in the right and on the left. To be honest I am usually much more leaning towards the right so I tend to be closer to the rights narrative, but there are things that are too far fetched. The uk police are not 100% over every single aspect but they do a damn good job from what I have seen in the 5+ years I’ve lived here. Not sure what you mean by thought police though... the law talks about Islamist doctrine as a risk, but it does not Cobden Islam as a religion nor does it forbid people from practicing this religion...

People are so afraid of being labelled as racists or islamophobes that they downplay, and sometimes even coverup, some behaviour by Muslims. On the other hand, they feel comfortable going after Whites / Christians / Westerners, for less problematic behaviour, and even for merely expressing opinions that differ from the SJW approved narrative.

If you bother to look outside the mainstream media, the examples are there.

Not going into a debate on Islam in this thread :) but what you described is not the religion, but rather the interpretation of the religion by idiots. It’s equivalent to judging Christianity by looking at the popes selling tickets to paradise ... and please don’t conclude I have any beef with Christianity, I would not be Christian if I did, it is precisely from my Christian perspective that I don’t accept your discrimination against Islam...

No. This is objectively wrong. The points I listed are part of the tenets of islam. Muhammad himself did and preached those things. They are not a matter of interpretation.

I am NOT discriminating against islam. Islam discriminates against me, you, and everyone who isn't Muslim. Some Muslims may choose to be decent people and not follow all the tenets of their religion, but the religion itself is violent and discriminatory.

If any other ideology promoted the ideas that islam promotes, it would be outlawed in the West. But because they call it a religion, no one can criticize it without being accused of bigotry. As if criticizing an ideology is the same as mistreating the people who follow that ideology.

By some uncanny "logic," we can no longer defend ourselves (even verbally) against an ideology that threatens us, without being falsely accused of being discriminatory. Talk about turning reality on its head.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Walidos

By the way, the documentary I posted is not from some right-wing organization. It was produced for the current affairs program Dispatches, on channel 4. They have been around since the 80's and they cover all kinds of topics, including social, political, and environmental ones.

The preachers / teachers at the mosques filmed during production said things like:

- Apostates should be killed
- Don't mix with the non-Muslims in the UK
- Even if you have to deal with them, keep a hatred for them in your heart
- Etc.

This, despite the fact they claim to be promoters of inter-faith dialogue.

When the documentary came out and people were outraged, the government had to investigate. Not only did they ignore / downplay the hatred being preached, there was even talk of charging the documentary filmmakers, themselves, with incitement of racism...for exposing racism!!!

So...if you haven't watched the video, you should do so before accusing me of misrepresenting islam.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
People are so afraid of being labelled as racists or islamophobes that they downplay, and sometimes even coverup, some behaviour by Muslims. On the other hand, they feel comfortable going after Whites / Christians / Westerners, for less problematic behaviour, and even for merely expressing opinions that differ from the SJW approved narrative.

If you bother to look outside the mainstream media, the examples are there.



No. This is objectively wrong. The points I listed are part of the tenets of islam. Muhammad himself did and preached those things. They are not a matter of interpretation.

I am NOT discriminating against islam. Islam discriminates against me, you, and everyone who isn't Muslim. Some Muslims may choose to be decent people and not follow all the tenets of their religion, but the religion itself is violent and discriminatory.

If any other ideology promoted the ideas that islam promotes, it would be outlawed in the West. But because they call it a religion, no one can criticize it without being accused of bigotry. As if criticizing an ideology is the same as mistreating the people who follow that ideology.

By some uncanny "logic," we can no longer defend ourselves (even verbally) against an ideology that threatens us, without being falsely accused of being discriminatory. Talk about turning reality on its head.
I disagree, you are making assumptions and grossly trying to portray me, in this case, as brainwashed by media, afraid of being labelled, or whatever, simply because I don’t agree with your very extreme view of Islam.
In fact, this is absolutely not true.

i have my views on Islam and they are certainly not aligned to yours, however I don’t want to engage in this thread, nor honestly in any (notice I have steered quite clear of the deep into “x religion” threads) because simply people are not here To debate and enrich themselves by the thoughts of others, but to “impose” their opinions and piss others off...
You have made the same point over and over again in many unrelated threads, I welcome your opinion though it doesn’t quite click with my line of thought. Let’s leave it at that
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I disagree, you are making assumptions and grossly trying to portray me, in this case, as brainwashed by media, afraid of being labelled, or whatever, simply because I don’t agree with your very extreme view of Islam.
In fact, this is absolutely not true.

i have my views on Islam and they are certainly not aligned to yours, however I don’t want to engage in this thread, nor honestly in any (notice I have steered quite clear of the deep into “x religion” threads) because simply people are not here To debate and enrich themselves by the thoughts of others, but to “impose” their opinions and piss others off...
You have made the same point over and over again in many unrelated threads, I welcome your opinion though it doesn’t quite click with my line of thought. Let’s leave it at that

What you don't seem to get is that neither my opinion nor your opinion are relevant to this discussion. Islam is what it says it is. It is not a matter of opinion.

But yes, let's leave it at that.
 

Walidos

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
@Walidos

By the way, the documentary I posted is not from some right-wing organization. It was produced for the current affairs program Dispatches, on channel 4. They have been around since the 80's and they cover all kinds of topics, including social, political, and environmental ones.

The preachers / teachers at the mosques filmed during production said things like:

- Apostates should be killed
- Don't mix with the non-Muslims in the UK
- Even if you have to deal with them, keep a hatred for them in your heart
- Etc.

This, despite the fact they claim to be promoters of inter-faith dialogue.

When the documentary came out and people were outraged, the government had to investigate. Not only did they ignore / downplay the hatred being preached, there was even talk of charging the documentary filmmakers, themselves, with incitement of racism...for exposing racism!!!

So...if you haven't watched the video, you should do so before accusing me of misrepresenting islam.
I’ve seen the first one, and just caught up on what happened. As a side note to the author of this thread, the police paid 100k for libel against channel 4 and the makers of the documentary for claiming they misrepresented the hate speech of those clerics :) this is not the doing if a police state.

now I know the prevent act, I also recall when Theresa May was in power there was action forbidding hate speakers from entering mosques. These are good actions. The government also clearly wants to fight the extremist ideology without discriminating against all Muslims, because plenty of people, myself included, don’t believe that Islam in itself is evil... Similarly, there are laws and actions against right wing extremists without discriminating against rightists in general...

The issue for you is you want the uk government, and all other governments, to take a very tough stance against Islam, basically adopting your point of view. They don’t...
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I’ve seen the first one, and just caught up on what happened. As a side note to the author of this thread, the police paid 100k for libel against channel 4 and the makers of the documentary for claiming they misrepresented the hate speech of those clerics :) this is not the doing if a police state.

now I know the prevent act, I also recall when Theresa May was in power there was action forbidding hate speakers from entering mosques. These are good actions. The government also clearly wants to fight the extremist ideology without discriminating against all Muslims, because plenty of people, myself included, don’t believe that Islam in itself is evil... Similarly, there are laws and actions against right wing extremists without discriminating against rightists in general...

The issue for you is you want the uk government, and all other governments, to take a very tough stance against Islam, basically adopting your point of view. They don’t...

I don't want you, or the UK government, or anyone else to "take a tough stance on islam." I want everyone to judge islam by the same standards they judge any other ideology.

You can repeat a million times that you don't believe islam is evil; but, like I said, your beliefs, my beliefs, and everyone else's beliefs are irrelevant. Islam is what it says it is. Period.

Now if you'll excuse me, I will leave this discussion, rather than repeat myself over and over.
 
Last edited:

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Regarding the other comment, I am neither SJW nor brainwashed, and stating “no offense “ doesn’t really help as both are offensive :) your views of Islam, from our previous conversations, are quite extreme. And you already know I don’t share them.

Anyone who believes that Islam is not "extreme" needs to do himself a favor and read the Quran and Hadith, or better yet book a ticket to Pakistan where thousands took to the street to demand the death penalty for a blaspheming Christian woman.

Moderation in the face of tyranny is no virtue. It's a sign of naivety and Leftist rose-tinted spectacles.
 
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