USA Violence and Civil Unrest in America [Daily protests ongoing against Racism and Police Brutality]

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    it's very hard for leftists to put 2 and 2 together
    unless its rolling a weed cig, that they can do easily
    I used to watch the Young Turks

    I stopped because they disgusted me

    they complain and complain and refuse to look at other angles or facts

    i remember the time i stopped when they were milking Trevon Martin

    I was like ok you are right, there are violent issues in the usa, but its not one sided, and no you cant milk the death of others nor reshape facts

    the person who killed him wasnt even white, and the teen was a shite trouble maker also, its was a powder keg situation, but no for leftists facts and nuance are insults

    Same for that asshole teen who made a fake bomb and took it to school to troll, TYT turks made him a hero, so did Obama and the rest

    Ana Kasperian and Cenk Yuger need to be offended and nag like old women nagging at the young generation at the bakery over trivial things

    i thought they were open minded, but after closer inspection they are not

    especially when they hate individual rights and are obsessed with group mentality and shaming others, even any leftist who disagreed with them on any of their new religious mantras, one sec their buddy, another he is now a nazi. Dave Rubin the calm gay atheist jew ex-TYT is now a nazi..

    the black americans have self inflicted problems in the usa, and they inflict dis-proportionally this unto others with crime waves

    same for many issues, including lgbt+, you cant make up genders like kids make up imaginary games

    i supported Obama on his first election, then i regretted it

    i supported and still support gay marriage, its a given right

    but i dont and wont support magical genders, i wont support re-writing history that i dont like, i wont support mob mentality, nor affermative action instead of equality of opportunity, and no way in hell i will be a sexist pig who claims white men are responsible for a 'horrible patriarchy' that built the civilized west like third wave feminists do

    only when leftists acknowledge these and other issues can a useful discussion be made on how to help ourselves and others around us who are suffering also

    a bit of realism is needed to improve this world

    i cant talk to a delusional feminist blonde who thinks islam is her ideological ally

    now, due to social media, the left has the persona of a proud automated lynch mob, get them excited and give them a few nice pitchforks and they will happily poke the eyes out of some old grandpa in a farm somewhere for being a patriarchal tyrant

    ideologically possessed is an understatement at this point

    all this drama over nothing in the USA while Hong Kong is being taken over by communist china

    you cannot take the left seriously

    but they sure know how to swing the pendulum to the left so violently that the next right wing swing will cause a crash with them that is deadly

    for centrists which they attacked us early on to remove us from the discussion, i have no skin in the game

    i prefer to sit back and protect myself, the coming fight the left started but i have no interest in them clashing with the right

    these idiots are destroying all the stability we current enjoy or enjoyed
    all arabs have an inferiority complex
    You write a full page to express your personal sorrows to justify where your racism and bigotry came from. The more you explain the more you raise questions about yourself as if you and your problems are topics.

    You can’t debate with someone who disagrees with your rigid state of mind even if the disagreement was partial or a misunderstanding. So you rush to silly and inaccurate labels with vicious attacks against others who are not even addressing you.

    Then you suggest to us “All Arabs have an inferiority complex” and when asked, you evade the question by suggesting to us that you are not one when in reality both of your suggestions are false and you are living painfully in a denial about your own identity confusion and inferiority complex.

    So learn how to debate with others or take the time to learn how to do it without embarrassing yourself.
     
    Red Phoenix

    Red Phoenix

    Legendary Member

    keep bowing to the left

    keep virtue signalling and playing their inter sectional deconstructionist games

    keep using their words and drinking their koolaid

    let them run wild in unis and media and school and big tech

    let this small cultist hate mob with its new religion dictate your future and erase your past

    be brave, be progressive, be proud

    til your new cultist mob friends get to your front door to lynch you next
     
    Nevermore

    Nevermore

    New Member
    I think it's now time to bring back some reasoned ideas to this thread. Disclaimer: This post is necessarily verbose and possibly multi-syllabic.

    ok, let me tell you something before we proceed further, the average syllable count in your words does not have much bearing on reality. the truth remains that no matter how you look at it, our culture, our civilization and the progress we made as human beings, is based on established hierarchies of competence. it might very well happen that you find incompetent people in some posts, however that is not a valid reason to demolish or negate the hierarchy of merit principle, to the contrary it should rather present an additional incentive to emphasizes that any post should be given to the most competent at handling it.

    admission to colleges and universities should not be based on the color of your skin, but rather on how well you do in the SAT exams, once you break that simple norm, you have allowed decay to filter into the institutions that issue the objective accreditation and validation of a person's abilities, and that's one of the ways social decay begins to seep into a society.
    What does competence have to do with crime and police brutality? I know you’re much more discerning than this, there is a more sophisticated way of assessing why crime occurs than simply someone’s competence. People can still exert bad behavior even when there aren’t structural impediments to them living a good life. At least one source attempts to give us some explanation to the phenomenon using multiple methods and lenses. The determinative factor is actually which crimes are policed and which aren’t. Behavior alone is a grossly inadequate framework for understanding crime. There’s almost the assumption built into this line of argumentation that some people innately have intelligent characteristics and others lack as much, simply by their biological nature or genetic composition.

    You say “our” like we own it. This is what the New York Times wrote about Maronites when they emigrated to the US in the late 19th century. Things change with time. Inclusion and exclusion to power structures, including to western civilization, is often conditional on consent and compliance, not always hard work, perseverance, and values. I think it is naive to assume that different cultures can come into constant contact without experiencing some tension, hostility, or even violence, but absent a discussion of tangible power, the civilizational clash model falls apart, and Huntington and most, if not all, scholars of global politics acknowledge as much. Your analysis, therefore, is one rooted in deference, rather than independence from the established powers because you’ve chosen not to elicit even the slightest critique toward the most basic transgressions of the police.

    We can talk about the SAT another time, but SAT scores are laughably bad determinants of competence. Imagine only hiring someone for a job if they passed an exam but couldn’t apply the skills needed to competently complete the job. In fact, the system decays when it perpetuates its admissions standards only based on the SAT and not a variety of academic and personal factors that might determine whether a student is competent or not.


    some officers are corrupt, some others are out of control. however we cannot claim that all officers are the same. blacks commit the highest number of crimes in the USA. can we say that all blacks are criminals? or is it that each individual, be it a cop or a black person, is strictly responsible and accountable of his own actions.

    you are furthering identity politics to envelop the police? really? you want to put them all on the same boat and pass a collective judgment on them? what about the millions of positive cases that are not filmed and published in these videos?
    Sure, but we have to ask why we would excuse those corrupt officers for bad behavior. Again, I am not talking about individual cops and their merits. Please understand the essence of my argument is not limited to behavioral explanations.

    Nevertheless, the stats necessitate a discussion of police training and standards. It’s not simply an issue of the policeman acting with poor judgment. When such poor judgment is repeatedly displayed, it calls into question the standards, practices, and training he received. If you work for a company that has loose rules for managing your behavior and allows you significant discretion in conducting your business and there’s little to no accountability for your loose behavior, in fact there’s are entire institutions (including police unions, and officers themselves) and groups of people who blindly support and defend your behavior, effectively disabling accountability, and you and many of your coworkers continuously misinterpret its rules and act in a manner that negatively hurts your clients, would you not say there is a systemic issue and not simply bad actors in those positions?

    A report on a documentary highlighting the dangers of militarized police training provides additional evidence that this issue is embedded within policing in much of the country. Another element that shows the systemic nature of the problem at hand is how medical examiners' reports can often be manipulated to, seemingly, cover up murders. Even some former cops agree there’s a police training issue, especially when cops are undertrained in conflict resolution, imbibed with battle rhetoric, and their main reaction to many situations that can be resolved otherwise is to use brutal force.

    “Well, if he just complied…”, one might say. However, compliance is not simply something desired for the officers to do their jobs, it is what the system necessitates in order to defeat any form of dissent, justification for legal recourse, and if the rules of compliance are not followed, then murder is justified.

    If you’re so worried about things changing for the worse, baddi tamnak. What you’re seeing today is not the change you think it is. Barring a seismic shift in the political power balance, systemic change will not occur. The most that you could expect are some changes to policing at the local level, culminating mostly in a shift in tactics, possibly spurned by funding cuts that require more resourcefulness, as well as forcing some police to fall on their swords in terms of convictions, firings, resignations, replacements and the like. Asking Mitch and Nancy to institute any kind of reforms is the equivalent of asking the Nabih of Lebanon to fight corruption, they ruin more than they help, just like Clinton did in the 90s because their role is to reinforce the preexisting power structure, the only difference is the words they use to do it. It’d be naive to assume that they will prostrate as easily and as quickly as some of those white people at the protests. The corporate and cultural elements are separately performative and most people aren’t buying them. Maybe I'm naive, but I always thought upholding American values and norms and western civilization meant justice for all. Upholding justice and small changes to police tactics =/= the demise of western civilization. Most white people and many Republicans recognize at least that there’s a problem that needs to be addressed.


    yes by all means, let's examine the numbers provided in the link you have shared.

    percentage whites in the USA according to the 2010 census: 72%
    percentage of blacks in the USA according to the 2010 census: 12.6%

    total offenses: 7,710,900
    by whites: 5,319,654 -> 69%
    by blacks: 2,115,381 -> 27%
    conclusion a black person is 2.27 times more likely to committing an offense than a white person.

    murder and manslaughter: 8,957
    by whites: 3,953-> 44%
    by blacks: 4,778-> 53%
    conclusion a black person is 6.9 times more likely to committing a murder than a white person.

    Rape: 18,776
    by whites: 12,794-> 68%
    by blacks: 5,376 -> 29%
    conclusion a black person is 2.4 times more likely to committing rape than a white person.

    these numbers are very telling. this is not to vilify anyone, but rather this is to present the severity of the problem. when you can correlate the race of a person to a 7 times higher proneness of committing murder, this indicates a real problem, and is not racism.

    the data suggests that a black person is twice more likely to commit drug related crimes, so it is normal that the profiling would reflect these numbers. it is abnormal if it doesn't. this is not racism.
    Nope, they’re not very telling. In fact, pulling these numbers without providing proper context kills the point of providing statistics to being with. Crime and policing are not mutually inclusive, as shown by the higher number of overall crimes committed by whites, yet the lower preponderance of policing in middle and upper class, predominantly white communities.

    To go back to the original argument, I was merely refuting your assertion that blacks commit more crimes overall, which is correct.

    As I said, the UCR numbers are not crimes committed, but crimes reported to police. Guess who is more likely to have crimes reported against them despite demonstrably similar levels of committed crimes? A black person is X times more likely to be arrested for committing an offense. So, this does not mean they are more likely to commit murder; it means they are more likely to be caught given the total number of murders committed.

    Additionally, these top researchers, who closely represent my position, explicate that crime differences virtually disappear between whites and blacks when accounting for neighborhood. Why is it that poor, predominantly black neighborhoods are targeted significantly, but affluent, predominantly white neighborhoods aren’t? The difference is poverty [see pages 339-40 here].

    It is important here to consider what I stated concerning overpolicing and underpolicing and how this supposed pathology of criminal behavior can be better explained by understanding relative deprivation and how black neighborhoods have been historically underserved and disadvantaged. They are twice as likely to get arrested for the same offense as a white person. Further, blacks can receive harsher jail/prison sentences for committing the same, minor offense as whites [Source 1, Source 2]. “blacks are 40% of drug violation arrests but only 13% of admitted drug users”, said a 1995 federal government report. So, there’s no real discrepancy between the races in terms of behavior regarding drug use. The problem must be somewhere else. The “war on drugs” has had deeply significant human costs that perpetuate the cycle of violence and crime, which, again, can be learned behavior given the circumstances, in certain neighborhoods. According to one report, we see that enforcement of drug laws, because of the war on drugs, has been most consistent in poor neighborhoods that tend to have large black populations. One example is Chicago:

    Chicago.png

    So, policing has been most present in poor and black neighborhoods purposefully because they were targeted in the war on drugs, not simply because they consume, sell, or possess more drugs. Consider only that crack-cocaine, the drug most associated with blacks, carries the highest sentence of all drugs and resulted in immense over-criminalization [1, 2, 3], whereas the opioid crisis, which has afflicted more whites than blacks, was treated as a public health crisis that required marshaling the non-police resources of all 50-states.

    This is not to discount the effects of the economic collapse of many de-industrialized cities like Milwaukee and Detroit, and segregation, though Jim Crow laws and black codes/covenants and redlining that prevented what few black people who made it to the middle class from owning homes, property being one of the sanctified American rights. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5].

    All of this is to say that, while inexcusable, crime often occurs for conditional reasons, tied to some measure of socioeconomic deprivation, and not only because of some behavioral traits extant in a given group of people. This is consistent with Merton’s strain typology, as well as the theories on learned behavior. Agency and free will can’t explain the whole story.

    Finally, simply taking the behavioral approach cannot explain why crime has fallen significantly in the United States since 1999. Did people all of a sudden decide to behave better? One source claims that the self-control might be only one possible explanation. Another source gives significantly increased policing as another very plausible explanation. But this might be suitable for another topic.


    as to families being ripped apart, you do realize that in black neighborhoods, out of wedlock births, take a look at this chart and observe how the most successful by race are the ones who have preserved a strong family unit, which indicates that this is a cultural problem not simply a systematic one.

    View attachment 19763




    the nonmarital births rate chart says it all. people need to grow up in a healthy family. when the family is destroyed everything else follows. family values need to be reinstated within the black community, and the family should be promoted as the real line of defense. in other words, you can find a direct correlation between the collapse of a community to the promoted liberal notions of nontraditional sexual freedom.
    The chart doesn't say even part of it - you’ve provided a non-explanation. What’s more, your argument is revealing itself as one that seeks to implicitly crush the protestors for even daring to exert recalcitrant behavior. This is not friendly to the established principle of freedom of speech. Notwithstanding

    You can also find a direct correlation between the collapse of the community, its socioeconomic status, and the effects of the war on drugs, sexual pathologies notwithstanding. How can you expect them to grow up in a healthy family when their entire communities have been decimated by the process I’ve explained above? It’s correct to say that the nuclear family has been eroded, and I agree that that could be problematic. But the issue has economic implications. From the CATO Institute: “Approximately 50,000–60,000 students are denied financial aid every year due to past drug convictions.6” Therefore, a drug conviction can mean that those individuals may never recover socially and economically from their sentence. Is that simply their own fault? While shockingly high among blacks, the rate for unmarried births has been increasing across the board. Nevertheless, all is not lost. According to numbers from the CDC, “black fathers (70%) were most likely to have bathed, dressed, diapered, or helped their children use the toilet every day compared with white (60%) and Hispanic fathers (45%)”, in addition to other activities like reading to them and eating meals with them. There are economic reasons why blacks do not often cohabitate, related possibly to social security, jobs, and prior convictions, even if the parents are equally involved in caring for the family. That said, kin networks might be an additional support mechanism for non-traditionally nuclear families [Source]. I will forgo talking about income for the sake of time, but the racial wealth gap shows that the median black family owns significantly less in terms of real money.

    Since raising a family requires some measure of wealth, let’s take a look at how socioeconomic status affects the average urban black family’s ability to properly raise their family. First there’s the neighborhood. Since we’ve determined the conditions of most of the neighborhoods that most black people live in, let’s assess whether individuals can raise stable families there. Historically, it goes without saying that conditions of black neighborhoods are a result of segregation. Some seminal perspectives claim that what happened in the 1970s, despite a period of relative prosperity and lower crime/violence, was a social fragmenting of predominantly black neighborhoods, not simply the family, but friends and kin, had separated from each other. That was precisely when the “war on drugs” began and the US government sought to eliminate black gangs and, by extension, community groups. Recent studies (cited is one among a series of them) of federal programs like Moving to Opportunity prove that exposure to better living environments help children’s long-term educational and career outcomes.

    Next, the problem can often be traced back to education, which has a significant correlation with wealth, in neighborhoods and families. Lack of economic success among US-born blacks compared to that of black immigrant families is inherently tied to level of education. People with lower incomes pay a lower percentage of that income toward taxes. Since lower income people tend to gather in low-income neighborhoods, their neighborhoods often contribute less into the tax system. Public schools are funded locally through property taxes, and most poor and black people do not own their homes in impoverished and ghettoized neighborhoods. Therefore, the schools received less funding, resources, and educational attention in many ways. If you can’t get a good education, you’re condemned to fail in the job market, which is often decided by your degrees, certifications, and skills. Those poor and black communities reproduce unskilled labor [1, 2, 3]. Additionally, while black wealth has slightly increased and poverty decreased over time, “white family wealth was seven times greater than black family wealth” most recently [Source]. Again, poverty isn’t an exclusively black issue. Finally, working hard and getting an education have usually not been perfect solutions for closing the wealth gap, for poor people in general, but also for most blacks. Studies find that simply putting money into schooling doesn’t address the issue of broader social deprivation.

    I never claimed that the systemic problem was ONLY one of racism against blacks, which has been well researched. My claim is that there are consistent impediments at the institutional and individual levels that are concentrated among poor US-born blacks whose largely inherited and structurally-perpetuated conditions reproduce a cyclical process of poverty and violence. It’s an iterative process whereby children grow up poor, lack proper education, skills, and training for higher-paying work, and reproduce that cycle in future generations. It’s a poverty issue foremost, compounded by the racial factor and its historical significance.


    not sure what this has to do with anything. you know a few black people and they are nice? yes of course. why wouldn't they be? who is saying there are no black nice people or that black people are not nice in general? the point i am making is that those protesters in the streets in their majority are issuing a verdict on all white people and accusing them of all sorts of things, guilt by transitivity is the most idiotic and ridiculous notion, and it is also the most racist notion. quite frankly the only racist parties in these events are the people taking to the streets, it is not simply that they are racists, it is more like they believe they have the right to be racist, and that is when things can turn dangerous.
    LOL, nice deflection. I countered your anecdotal social media “evidence” with my own factual anecdotal evidence. Are you telling me I shouldn’t trust what I see in real life and only trust what I see on social media? Like I’ve said, the race aspect is the most visceral part of this, and, by attempting to counter their narrative with your own on race, you fell in their trap. I fully recognize that the issue not just one of race, which is why my discussion is one based around class/wealth/poverty.

    Nobody’s holding whole groups guilty! The point remains that there might be many of the protestors who are prejudiced or biased against white people, but to charge them with racism is false because racism entails holding a measure of power that can be officially acted upon to purposely inflict damage on another group.

    Social media can be deluding, people telling police officers to take a knee and the like are the equivalent of those in Lebanon calling for “isqat al-nizam” and indicative of the empty, performative aspects of wokeness. They amount to nothing tangible but to make people feel better about themselves. If this continues, I promise nothing will fundamentally change. I summarized what I think could change from the protests and it’s not much. The point remains that we keep seeing instances of excessive use of force by officers and the fact there will be some slight measure of accountability now is a good thing for all and doesn’t indicate a decline in western civilization.

    I’ll make the same argument that Donald Trump made after the Charlottesville protests, there are good people and bad people on both sides. And I will add to it that one group inherently exerts more power and influence than others. Those protestors brandishing their guns in statehouses looked as much like ISIS as those BLM protestors supposedly do ;).


    are you really saying obama was not black enough? what would constitute a "black" black president? my friend, this is not a conversation you should be having :)
    LOL again. I’m saying the conditions that allowed for Obama to be elected were favorable toward whites, and he advanced a system that didn’t threaten white interests, so your assertion that racism is over is incorrect because his election did not, in fact, could not, change the system. Why can’t I have this conversation? A Lebanese can’t talk about race?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    This writer sums this whole fiasco up almost perfectly:
    Both are are full of it and both are in love with it.

    With one thing I agree though: war on drugs must be conducted totally differently - not by using power, but by using money.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    So now they toppled Washington. I’m sure they’d love to put Stalin in his place;

     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    If every four or five or ten years, a few hundred or a thousand protesters, instigated by foreign agents and misled and deceived, lose their lives; and if every year hundreds of Americans are killed by the police, whether they protest or not; then, what is the difference between Iran and the USA? At least in Iran we dont have instances of police racially or ethnically profiling certain groups of people and inflicting them with targeted killings. As a Muslim, as a Black person or as anyone not White and of Judeo-Christian background living in America is not all that rosy and can become messy within a second, if you meet the wrong set of cops or you mistakenly behave yourself in an unacceptable way.

    That is the reason people are protesting. That is the reason I am support the BLM. That is the reason every White person must stand up for justice. The black guy who was shot in Atlanta two days ago could have been restrained just with a taser, even if he resisted arrest or even he could have been shot on the legs. He was shot and killed. They shot at him to kill him. And he was drunk. Is that fair? Would those cops have reacted in the same way if that guy was White?
    Iranian police treats minorities in Iran way worse and it is a systematic, government policy unlike individual actions by police officers.

    In other words, seddo because your taqiya doesn't work except on lying Shiites.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Iranian police treats minorities in Iran way worse and it is a systematic, government policy unlike individual actions by police officers.

    In other words, seddo because your taqiya doesn't work except on lying Shiites.
    Iran FYI is a country of ethnic minorities. The binding force in Iran is Shiism, which over 90% of the population adheres to.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Iran FYI is a country of ethnic minorities. The binding force in Iran is Shiism, which over 90% of the population adheres to.
    Yup and those 90% treat the other 10% like shit, especially Arab Sunnis.
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    Yup and those 90% treat the other 10% like shit, especially Arab Sunnis.
    Arab Sunnis in Iran dont constitute up to 2% of the population in Iran. Most Sunnis in Iran non Arabs.

    But still your claim is not true. Just sensationalism.

    And this thread is about US and its systematic racism towards blacks. Why are you trying to use Iran as an escape route?
     
    Rafidi

    Rafidi

    Legendary Member
    And how does it contradict @Muki's claim.
    It does because there is really little or no racial or ethnic discrimination in Iran. Some may claim sectatian discrimination against Sunnis. Of course the same people have made many false claims on that to incite Sunnis. The best selling point is claiming that even Jews and Christians have places of worship in Tehran but Sunnis dont. That also not correct.

    Please stick to the topic of the thread. Let us not drift from the topic. Not interested this evening to make posts that would be taken down by mods for off topic. 😉
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Arab Sunnis in Iran dont constitute up to 2% of the population in Iran. Most Sunnis in Iran non Arabs.

    But still your claim is not true. Just sensationalism.

    And this thread is about US and its systematic racism towards blacks. Why are you trying to use Iran as an escape route?
    I said especially Arab Sunnis, not exclusively Arab Sunnis.

    I am responding to your claims lies.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    It does because there is really little or no racial or ethnic discrimination in Iran. Some may claim sectatian discrimination against Sunnis. Of course the same people have made many false claims on that to incite Sunnis. The best selling point is claiming that even Jews and Christians have places of worship in Tehran but Sunnis dont. That also not correct.

    Please stick to the topic of the thread. Let us not drift from the topic. Not interested this evening to make posts that would be taken down by mods for off topic. 😉
    "It does because there is really little or no racial or ethnic discrimination in Iran." - hard to believe because I know for a fact that for example Zoroastrians and Baha'i are being openly prosecuted.

    "Please stick to the topic of the thread." - no problem, but with one stipulation: I reserve the right to respond to your posts regardless of whether they are off topic or not.
     
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