What are some effective ways to de-Islamize Lebanon?

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Today's Lebanese Muslims are smart and well-educated. However, they are also more religious than ever.
Despite relative advances in social and cultural norms, Muslim are still being held back by regressive cultural and religious practices.
One only needs to step in Dahyeh or Tripoli to witness the resurgence in religious fundamentalism among the Lebanese Muslim communities.
The number of veiled/tchadored women is a testament to that.

Current estimates put the number of Lebanese Muslims at 57%-60%. The number is expected to double in a few years.
In light of this demographic urgency, what do you think should be done to counter the ever-growing rise of Islam in Lebanon?
And how can we persuade a young generation of Muslims to abandon their satanic cult, or at least embrace other religions like Christianity and Buddhism that are more compatible with democracy and human rights?
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
Today's Lebanese Muslims are smart and well-educated. However, they are also more religious than ever.
Despite relative advances in social and cultural norms, Muslim are still being held back by regressive cultural and religious practices.
One only needs to step in Dahyeh or Tripoli to witness the resurgence in religious fundamentalism among the Lebanese Muslim communities.
The number of veiled/tchadored women is a testament to that.

Current estimates put the number of Lebanese Muslims at 57%-60%. The number is expected to double in a few years.
In light of this demographic urgency, what do you think should be done to counter the ever-growing rise of Islam in Lebanon?
And how can we persuade a young generation of Muslims to abandon their satanic cult, or at least embrace other religions like Christianity and Buddhism that are more compatible with democracy and human rights?
Do 80% deals on bacon, watch the people flock to spyneys and emancipate!
 

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
.... how can we persuade a young generation of Muslims to abandon their satanic cult, or at least embrace other religions like Christianity and Buddhism that are more compatible with democracy and human rights?

This is the best way to alienate others and grow extremism among them, and hatred towards you, hence making yourself contributing in the creation of the problem you're complaining about.
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
And how can we persuade a young generation of Muslims to abandon their satanic cult, or at least embrace other religions like Christianity and Buddhism that are more compatible with democracy and human rights?


All you need is two missionaries: @HannaTheCrusader and @LVV. LVV knocks doors and cooks food, and Hanna will be building churches and distributing bibles.

Next easy problem?
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
This is the best way to alienate others and grow extremism among them, and hatred towards you, hence making yourself contributing in the creation of the problem you're complaining about.

So what do you suggest? And do you acknowledge there is a problem?
If Muslims continue to grow at this rate, next thing they'll be demanding the implementation of Sharia laws.
That's the case in most Muslim-majority according to polls.

Screen Shot 2019-05-05 at 1.17.12 AM.png
 

Abou Sandal

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
So what do you suggest? And do you acknowledge there is a problem?
If Muslims continue to grow at this rate, next thing they'll be demanding the implementation of Sharia laws.
That's the case in most Muslim-majority according to polls.

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No, Muslims in Lebanon will not ask for Sharia law. Even the most religious among them, would reject that, as a system of ruling, and I'm not talking about the wide majority of them, which is moderate, and secular.

As for their actual or future numbers, that does not count. Again, this is a deceiving concept, used as a scarecrow, for various political reasons.

On the other hand, there is however a big problem in the way Islam is widely taught, and and another one in Muslim societies traditions and culture.

This is a problem that is not inherently attached to Islam, but rather to Muslims. And this problem needs to be addressed on a socio-cultural level, and Muslims should be an active player in it, just like everyone else.

To make it short, it is not by insulting Muslims and badmouthing them and their religion, that you're going to improve the society you, and them, live in. Quite the opposite actually.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
To make it short, it is not by insulting Muslims and badmouthing them and their religion, that you're going to improve the society you, and them, live in. Quite the opposite actually.

Hippie Westerners bend over backwards not to offend Muslims, to the point of denying plain truths and risking their own survival...and it changes absolutely nothing to the way Muslims percieve them.

It doesn't matter whether you're a nice kafir or a mean kafir. At the end of the day you are a kafir, and in the eyes of a Muslim, you need to convert or to be exterminated.
 

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Today's Lebanese Muslims are smart and well-educated. However, they are also more religious than ever.
Despite relative advances in social and cultural norms, Muslim are still being held back by regressive cultural and religious practices.
One only needs to step in Dahyeh or Tripoli to witness the resurgence in religious fundamentalism among the Lebanese Muslim communities.
The number of veiled/tchadored women is a testament to that.

Current estimates put the number of Lebanese Muslims at 57%-60%. The number is expected to double in a few years.
In light of this demographic urgency, what do you think should be done to counter the ever-growing rise of Islam in Lebanon?
And how can we persuade a young generation of Muslims to abandon their satanic cult, or at least embrace other religions like Christianity and Buddhism that are more compatible with democracy and human rights?

Starts with tackling corruption which leads to dire economic conditions and social inequality. Poverty and radicalisation go hand in hand. You also must replace the confessional system with a democratic one, otherwise polarisation will never cease. Last but not least, pour lots of money into education and stop accepting refugees.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Today's Lebanese Muslims are smart and well-educated. However, they are also more religious than ever.
Despite relative advances in social and cultural norms, Muslim are still being held back by regressive cultural and religious practices.
One only needs to step in Dahyeh or Tripoli to witness the resurgence in religious fundamentalism among the Lebanese Muslim communities.
The number of veiled/tchadored women is a testament to that.

Current estimates put the number of Lebanese Muslims at 57%-60%. The number is expected to double in a few years.
In light of this demographic urgency, what do you think should be done to counter the ever-growing rise of Islam in Lebanon?
And how can we persuade a young generation of Muslims to abandon their satanic cult, or at least embrace other religions like Christianity and Buddhism that are more compatible with democracy and human rights?

First of all, your thread is insulting. Secondly, there are many false assumptions. Even the topic itself is faulty.

When you want to de-islamize Lebanon, what exactly do you mean? Converting people to other faiths? You're talking of about 70% of the population. Are the other religions the truth? Or are they more lax and care free about lifestyle? Do care free religions produce better societies? Are the other adherents of other religions violent as well? (Religions are not violent or peaceful; it is the adherent who choose to be violent or peaceful). Do other countries, with other religions than Islam, have low criminal/gang violence?

As for the premise of making this thread. What indications are there to claim that Lebanon is "islamized"? How many of our youths actually observe the five daily prayers? How many Muslims follow the religion to the dot? How many Muslims actually, out of the fear of God do not engage in drugs, alcohol, fornication, fighting, violent behavior and killings? What is the percentage of women who observe the hijab or wear chador? Will they be better or worse without religion? I think if they are more religious, and God fearing, many problems will not exist in the first place relating to violence, lawlessness and intimidation. There is intimidation because my people (all Lebanese) have this mentality of entitlement and superman behavior (3antariyyet).

On my way home once, in Beirut, the driver of the vehicle I boarded drove a bit rough. The motorcyclist had to sway aside to avoid being jammed. The motorcyclist then follow the vehicle and threw insults at the driver and used his motorcycle to halt the vehicle by parking in front of the moving vehicle on a busy road in Beirut. Then, the motorcyclist came to the door of the driver and asked him for his documents. The driver refused to give him and asked him who is he to demand official documents. That he should identify himself. The motorcyclist used his phone and captured the plate number of the vehicle and gesticulated that "he will show him" (bfarjeek). Likely, the motorcyclist is a police or soldier or some local 3antar (maybe belonging to a political party). How does this behavior relate to Islam? Both are likely from the same religion (judging by the area both were heading to and their accent) bullying each other.

Listen to the mode of conversation of our youths. They are the ones who insult God the most on the face of the earth! When there is any type of problem they face, they scream curses at God...not at their country, not at their mothers, fathers, sisters, family but at God! Do religious and sane people behave that way? The most well behaved youths in Lebanon who show respect, courtesy, discipline and piousness are the religious ones belonging to Hezballah. Many of those who aren't religious are themselves ungodly and pretenders and beasts. I am talking for my own community. Many of those not belonging to Hezbollah lack discipline and are wild and dangerous. They behave like beasts in society. Nothing restrains them, neither religion or leadership nor national laws.

In the south, there was heavy army presence and restricted movement in one of the southern towns last night. A warrior from Amal was shot severely on his legs about a week or two ago in a revenge shooting and he passed away last night in Jabal Amel Hospital. The deceased, last year during Ramadan, had shot the brother of the man who shot him. It is relating to politics and the baladiyyeh. The dead is from Amal and the brothers are more or less independent, who stood by their uncle who was a member of the baladiyyieh and local Amal members wanted him to resign. The uncle at a point was part of Amal. He refused to resign and violent intimidation was used and his nephew got shot on the foot but survived. Then money was used to wrap up the matter. The guy shot on the foot and his brother still had grudge and shot the shooter last two weeks. The brothers, I heard, are on the run and no where to be found. This isn't linked to Hezballah or Islam. It isn't linked to Islamic lifestyle. It is tribal behavior. The deceased family are now threatening to retaliate against the family of the two brothers. It is linked to a gangster life and political violence and political intimidation and lack of democratic system, free and fair elections at the local level. Just like you have them in Latin American countries, where criminal/gang violence are the highest in the world. Chicago is the most violent city in the US with deaths recorded almost everyday on average. These are all not Islamic societies and they don't follow an Islamic lifestyle and they don't pray five times or observe fasting during Ramadan.

When one follows a spiritual and pious lifestyle (whether Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist etc), he is expected to be a better person in society. What is needed is the streamlining of laws and making Lebanon a modern country with all citizens under the law and imposing and enforcing order to apply the law. Our system of government is retrogressive. We are better off under colonialism. We aren't fit to govern ourselves with our divisions and temperament. Whether Syria or France or the Turks should rule us, it is better. We also don't like ourselves. Even within a village, people from the same sect do not like themselves on personal levels. And this is everywhere in Lebanon. We are diverse racially and ethnically to feel cohesion. Arabism is just camouflage to unify us.

Don't forget also that the lawless and retarded display of most people carry flavors of tribal mentality and tribal behavior. Our sects in Lebanon act as if they are ethnic groups, while they are not. We all speak the same language, have the same food and share the same areas across the length and breadth of Lebanon.
 
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Rafidi

Legendary Member
I am pondering, still, on the topic. What is really Islamized about Lebanon? We only find religion when it is time to share political posts and to kill ourselves. People that don't attend mosque or church service will be the first to shoot at the other for political reasons using religion as cover.

Lebanon is anything but islamized. Lebanon is ungodly. We don't use religion to help the poor and the needy. And when some of us do, it is broadcasted on aljadeed TV. Ya 3alam shoofo shu 3am be3mal lal ness. Lebanon is capitalist. Lebanon is sectarian. Lebanon is westernized. Lebanon is everything but islamized. And Lebanon is not also Christianized. Lebanon is not spiritual, not even religious. We only politicize religion to divide the country and share the spoils among the sectarian warlords.
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Hippie Westerners bend over backwards not to offend Muslims, to the point of denying plain truths and risking their own survival...and it changes absolutely nothing to the way Muslims percieve them.

It doesn't matter whether you're a nice kafir or a mean kafir. At the end of the day you are a kafir, and in the eyes of a Muslim, you need to convert or to be exterminated.

From close encounter to people from various religions I can attest that 99,999% of them all perceive the others as errants, misled, unfaithful, disbelievers or kuffar. It comes with the territory of any dogma with exclusivity on truth.

Unless people peacefully try to operate on each other's minds in an attempt to make them, out of free will, want to convert and adopt a different set of beliefs, I'm sure you and I are perfectly okey with the fact that no harm is done to any one by any one's perception of others. Religious or non-religious, what people believe, think or how they perceive others is something we have to live with every minute in our daily lives interactions with others.

The problem arises when someone holds an intention to either force her belief on you through any mean, including violence, or use the same to threaten, exclude, persecute or in other way harm you for what you believe in. This is what some, not all, islamic adherents do.
If you can find humane ways to softly exterminate these people, I won't be the first to object.
 

My Moria Moon

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I am pondering, still, on the topic. What is really Islamized about Lebanon? We only find religion when it is time to share political posts and to kill ourselves. People that don't attend mosque or church service will be the first to shoot at the other for political reasons using religion as cover.

Lebanon is anything but islamized. Lebanon is ungodly. We don't use religion to help the poor and the needy. And when some of us do, it is broadcasted on aljadeed TV. Ya 3alam shoofo shu 3am be3mal lal ness. Lebanon is capitalist. Lebanon is sectarian. Lebanon is westernized. Lebanon is everything but islamized. And Lebanon is not also Christianized. Lebanon is not spiritual, not even religious. We only politicize religion to divide the country and share the spoils among the sectarian warlords.
Spot on. We are only barbarically sectarians for the sake of being so fear-of-the-other mongered by external forces and domestic clowns for many centuries no one really knows when it all started or how miserably it will end.
 

Libnene Qu7

Super Ultra Senior Member
Orange Room Supporter
I am pondering, still, on the topic. What is really Islamized about Lebanon? We only find religion when it is time to share political posts and to kill ourselves. People that don't attend mosque or church service will be the first to shoot at the other for political reasons using religion as cover.

Lebanon is anything but islamized. Lebanon is ungodly. We don't use religion to help the poor and the needy. And when some of us do, it is broadcasted on aljadeed TV. Ya 3alam shoofo shu 3am be3mal lal ness. Lebanon is capitalist. Lebanon is sectarian. Lebanon is westernized. Lebanon is everything but islamized. And Lebanon is not also Christianized. Lebanon is not spiritual, not even religious. We only politicize religion to divide the country and share the spoils among the sectarian warlords.
Spot on. We are only barbarically sectarians for the sake of being so fear-of-the-other mongered by external forces and domestic clowns for many centuries no one really knows when it all started or how miserably it will end.

Which is why being more pious won't help, in my opinion. We need a national narrative that all can agree on. I don't know what it is, but the word "Lebanese" needs to be defined.
 

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I am pondering, still, on the topic. What is really Islamized about Lebanon? We only find religion when it is time to share political posts and to kill ourselves. People that don't attend mosque or church service will be the first to shoot at the
other for political reasons using religion as cover.

Lebanon is anything but islamized. Lebanon is ungodly. We don't use religion to help the poor and the needy. And when some of us do, it is broadcasted on aljadeed TV. Ya 3alam shoofo shu 3am be3mal lal ness. Lebanon is capitalist. Lebanon is sectarian. Lebanon is westernized. Lebanon is everything but islamized. And Lebanon is not also Christianized. Lebanon is not spiritual, not even religious. We only politicize religion to divide the country and share the spoils among the sectarian warlords.

I'll tell you what's wrong with a Muslim Lebanon, barkeh you spare us another "mawdou3 insha".
Women's oppression
1-For instance, a man is not required to ask the permission of the first wife if he wishes to marry another wife.
2-A woman's testimony counts half of a man's testimony.
Sharia-inspired rules
The ban of alcohol in the South and beer advertisements in Tripoli. (And we're not governed by Sharia yet)
Lack of culture and interest in art
Hizbullah's prohibition of musical instruments and singing, and their ridiculing of Nadine Labaki's achievement is a testament to that.
Culture was never on their list of priorities.
Allegiance to the Islamic Ummah and Wliayat el Faqih than to Lebanon.
Intolerance:
If their religion teaches them that apostates and homosexuals must be sentenced to death, why do you expect the followers to be any more tolerant?
The enforcement of an Islamic dress code As a result, women who wear revealing clothes are viewed as loose and sexually available, and often blamed for inciting rape.
Lack of freedom of speech Criticizing Islam leads to violent and bloody protests (example: the Danish cartoons, Charlie Hebdo...).

How do you expect a society that views culture as haram to progress?
And how are Muslim men supposed to change their attitudes towards women when Islam teaches them men are a degree above women?
 
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Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
To make it short, it is not by insulting Muslims and badmouthing them and their religion, that you're going to improve the society you, and them, live in. Quite the opposite actually.

Why is it insulting to call things by their name? I never insult Muslims, only Islam.
Islam has many questionable verses and inhumane Sharia rules that must be called out.
If Muslims feel offended when they're reminded of the horrors of their faith, then perhaps it's time for them to question their religion.

If someones starts a cult today that taught half of what Islam teaches, it would automatically be labelled Nazi, misogynist, radical, barbaric...
The only reason Islam gets a free pass, is because it's a 1400 year-old Abrahamic religion.

Enough submission to Islam.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
From close encounter to people from various religions I can attest that 99,999% of them all perceive the others as errants, misled, unfaithful, disbelievers or kuffar. It comes with the territory of any dogma with exclusivity on truth.

Unless people peacefully try to operate on each other's minds in an attempt to make them, out of free will, want to convert and adopt a different set of beliefs, I'm sure you and I are perfectly okey with the fact that no harm is done to any one by any one's perception of others. Religious or non-religious, what people believe, think or how they perceive others is something we have to live with every minute in our daily lives interactions with others.

The problem arises when someone holds an intention to either force her belief on you through any mean, including violence, or use the same to threaten, exclude, persecute or in other way harm you for what you believe in. This is what some, not all, islamic adherents do.
If you can find humane ways to softly exterminate these people, I won't be the first to object.

While Christians believe that Muslims are following a false religion, they are taught to see everyone as children of God, to be loved. Christians do not use derogatory terms like "kafir" to describe others. Christians are not taught to hate and stay away from others the way preachers teach in mosques. Christians are not taught that it is halal to enslave, rape, and kill "unbelievers."

There is a world of difference between the way Christians percieve non-Christians and the way Muslims percieve non-Muslims.
 

Ice Tea

Active Member
While Christians believe that Muslims are following a false religion, they are taught to see everyone as children of God, to be loved. Christians do not use derogatory terms like "kafir" to describe others. Christians are not taught to hate and stay away from others the way preachers teach in mosques. Christians are not taught that it is halal to enslave, rape, and kill "unbelievers."

There is a world of difference between the way Christians percieve non-Christians and the way Muslims percieve non-Muslims.

My family thinks that Islam is demonic and on the judgement day Muslims will be allowed to choose between the Muslim God (Satan) and Jesus. This is how most religious Lebanese Christians think.
 

Picasso

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Hippie Westerners bend over backwards not to offend Muslims, to the point of denying plain truths and risking their own survival...and it changes absolutely nothing to the way Muslims percieve them.

It doesn't matter whether you're a nice kafir or a mean kafir. At the end of the day you are a kafir, and in the eyes of a Muslim, you need to convert or to be exterminated.

This is a call for violence against Muslims. It means simply that you cannot live peacefully alongside or in a Muslim community. That is aside from your grudging reaction to the way the West is becoming more tolerant and sympathizing with Muslims despite the Nazi right-wing populist wave against them, people of color, and the Jews.

Your sentence means one thing. Exterminate Muslims before they exterminate you. Genocidal Indie.

On another note, no need for self-flagellation, manifesto, in order to prove that you are not with Sharia laws. People are free to choose which doctrine they want to abide by as long as they do not force others to do so. Islam is being unjustly defamed just because some Muslims need to reconsider the way things are. Like if we had the slightest chance to breathe in the twentieth century.

I do not agree with your smearing campaign and inferiority complex. But I agree that we need to change, the Islamists are definitely not the answer. It starts with the economy and the system of education.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
My family thinks that Islam is demonic and on the judgement day Muslims will be allowed to choose between the Muslim God (Satan) and Jesus. This is how most religious Lebanese Christians think.

If individuals choose to ignore Church teachings and follow their own base instincts (perhaps even influenced by demonic forces), they represent no one but themselves.

The fact of the matter is that, as per Church teaching, we are all children of God. And if someone happens to be born in a Muslim family but has a good heart and behaves in a good way, he is not automatically condemned to hell. Nor is someone born in a Christian family, but who has a hardened heart and commits evil deeds, automatically destined for heaven.
 
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