What's the difference between Bashir Gemayel and Samir Geagea?

fresh

New Member
#1
I have a question in mind about the difference between the two LF leaders Bashir Gemayel and Samir Gaegae.
From what I saw and read in this forum, I noticed that most of the users talk about Bashir Gemayel as a Hero and saint-like. While the same majority calls SG a war criminal.
SG was an assistant to Bashir and they fought together and they lead the same organization. The LF believes remained the same throughout the leadership period of both of them.
So what makes Bashir different than Samir?
 
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  • terror

    Well-Known Member
    #2
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    In theory, Bachir is supposed to be a clean Lebanese national who was working for a unified strong Lebanon while Geagea was a Christian warlord who became a traitor after he did not give a clear position on Taef.

    In practice, they were both warlords and Christian nationalists who participated in mass murders.

    The difference is probably that Bachir was much more charismatic while Geagea's charisma was overshadowed by that of Aoun, and Geagea also came at a time when people were becoming tired of militias, and after a series of infighting inside the Lebanese Forces.

    I understand why someone would like Bachir and hate Samir, but what is absurd is the kind of arguments they use.
     

    Mey

    Well-Known Member
    #3
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    terror said:
    In theory, Bachir is supposed to be a clean Lebanese national who was working for a unified strong Lebanon while Geagea was a Christian warlord who became a traitor after he did not give a clear position on Taef.

    In practice, they were both warlords and Christian nationalists who participated in mass murders.

    The difference is probably that Bachir was much more charismatic while Geagea's charisma was overshadowed by that of Aoun, and Geagea also came at a time when people were becoming tired of militias, and after a series of infighting inside the Lebanese Forces.

    I understand why someone would like Bachir and hate Samir, but what is absurd is the kind of arguments they use.
    I think you said it all. And may I add that in theory and practice Bashir is a warlord and a christian nationalist and believed in mass murders.

    However in theory Bachir is supposed to be a clean Lebanese national who was working for a unified strong Lebanon. This is only in his last days when he started campaigning heavily for presidency. And it was only theory IMO to gain acceptance from his Muslim counterparts.
     

    Sami.NJ

    Active Member
    #4
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    fresh said:
    I have a question in mind about the difference between the two LF leaders Bashir Gemayel and Samir Gaegae.
    From what I saw and read in this forum, I noticed that most of the users talk about Bashir Gemayel as a Hero and saint-like. While the same majority calls SG a war criminal.
    SG was an assistant to Bashir and they fought together and they lead the same organization. The LF believes remained the same throughout the leadership period of both of them.
    So what makes Bashir different than Samir?
    After the death of Bachir, revenge took over the mind and soul of LF. Hate was the only thing they knew.
     

    LebArmenian

    Well-Known Member
    #5
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    fresh said:
    I have a question in mind about the difference between the two LF leaders Bashir Gemayel and Samir Gaegae.
    From what I saw and read in this forum, I noticed that most of the users talk about Bashir Gemayel as a Hero and saint-like. While the same majority calls SG a war criminal.
    SG was an assistant to Bashir and they fought together and they lead the same organization. The LF believes remained the same throughout the leadership period of both of them.
    So what makes Bashir different than Samir?
    simple
    Bashir Gemayel had a cause , fighting the palestinians who wanted to make Lebanon their Palestine

    Samir geagea fought against ....well actually he only fought against the Christians
     

    Bach_10452

    Active Member
    #6
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    Many Things differenciate BG from SG ...
    1st of all : BG won all of his wars against syrians and palestinians ( ex :Zahle Battle , 100 day war ......) while SG lost all of his wars ( ex: Mountain War , Ilgha War ...)
    2nd of all : BG was a Charismatic man who came into politics carrying a plan of stopping the war and buildin a unified and independant Lebanon while SG got into fights with Lebanese Fractions as PSP and GMA .
    3rd of all : BG became the President of Lebanon and he was the latest dream of Christians and a part of Muslims who saw in Bachir the saviour.
    and he lost his daughter and he continued the dream .. He is a Unique person and may he RIP.
    Thanks.
     

    X

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #7
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    Fresh, you the FM have no idea about what you are doing, you are using the LF for your own sake and they are using you for their own sake, you never lived in an area controlled by the LF, and you never had any kind of contacts with them, you just began to contact them this year and most of the contact is happening between few people (officials)

    The only reason LF are in love with you is your hate to GMA, it’s like the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    The old FM, the ones who were FM prior 14 February 2005, were much close to FPM, we had many issues with the economical policy of the martyr but both movements had many things in common, specially on the strategically front and “secularism”

    Unfortunately after the killing of the Martyr, FM became a place for the fanatic Sunnis, FM previously was a group of elites, university students were the core of FM.

    The old FM was never going to ally with sectarian groups, and the old FM was more close to secular groups.

    I was one of those who worked inside FPM to bring FPM and FM close to each others, I was one of those who worked don the ground the night of February 14 last year, you can go ask “Amer” the administrator of FM forum about the cedar revolution, and he can tell you that FPM and FM were the main people on the ground the first month (between February 14 and March 14)

    I will not go into the details of why all this collapsed, history will tell you that you did a huge mistake with the alliances you made, right now you don’t see those mistakes.
     

    drkalsaee

    Active Member
    #8
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    LebArmenian said:
    simple
    Bashir Gemayel had a cause , fighting the palestinians who wanted to make Lebanon their Palestine

    Samir geagea fought against ....well actually he only fought against the Christians
    LebArmenian,

    Everyone in Lebanon (well most) fight for a cause, Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah fight for a cause, yet you see that some people love HN and some people hate him. It's the same with Bashir, many people love him and many people hate him.

    Now let's look at facts, was he a warlord and a criminal by practice? Did he fight for Lebanon or did he fight for the christians? The answers are that he fought for christians as a criminal and a warlord. He allowed the Israelis to enter Lebanon ya 3alam, maybe Israel helped with some people's fight against the Palestinians bas still Israel ruined the lives and killed many innocent people. Israel layyed seige and floored a lot of the infrastructure in Lebanon. This was all the work of Bashir that allowed them into Lebanon.

    So a hero to some and a villain to others. Also the fact that he was killed could help his image and the couple of speeches he made after elected president. SG on the other hand was thrown in jail and actually convicted of crimes.

    I request that EVERYONE reading this thread go to this link and read some facts...

    http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showpost.php?p=180112

    Cheers,

    drkalsaee
     

    a3ntar

    Active Member
    #9
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    fresh said:
    I have a question in mind about the difference between the two LF leaders Bashir Gemayel and Samir Gaegae.
    From what I saw and read in this forum, I noticed that most of the users talk about Bashir Gemayel as a Hero and saint-like. While the same majority calls SG a war criminal.
    SG was an assistant to Bashir and they fought together and they lead the same organization. The LF believes remained the same throughout the leadership period of both of them.
    So what makes Bashir different than Samir?
    You just cannot compare Bashir and Samir ! They are two different people.
    Regards.
     
    #10
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    fresh said:
    I have a question in mind about the difference between the two LF leaders Bashir Gemayel and Samir Gaegae.
    From what I saw and read in this forum, I noticed that most of the users talk about Bashir Gemayel as a Hero and saint-like. While the same majority calls SG a war criminal.
    SG was an assistant to Bashir and they fought together and they lead the same organization. The LF believes remained the same throughout the leadership period of both of them.
    So what makes Bashir different than Samir?

    Hello,

    No differences what so ever.

    Both are criminal warlords basing their agenda on feudalistic, religious and divisionism sick mentalities leading to chaos and backwardness.

    Finally, both are only looking for their personal interests. Just like any other sectarian leader in Lebanon.

    This is my humble opinion of course.

    Regards,

    Damascus_Rose
     

    Carlutchi

    Active Member
    #11
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    X said:
    The only reason LF are in love with you is your hate to GMA, it’s like the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
    This sentence is enough to clear the situation.
     

    WiseCookie

    Well-Known Member
    #12
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    drkalsaee said:
    LebArmenian,

    Everyone in Lebanon (well most) fight for a cause, Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah fight for a cause, yet you see that some people love HN and some people hate him. It's the same with Bashir, many people love him and many people hate him.

    Now let's look at facts, was he a warlord and a criminal by practice? Did he fight for Lebanon or did he fight for the christians? The answers are that he fought for christians as a criminal and a warlord. He allowed the Israelis to enter Lebanon ya 3alam, maybe Israel helped with some people's fight against the Palestinians bas still Israel ruined the lives and killed many innocent people. Israel layyed seige and floored a lot of the infrastructure in Lebanon. This was all the work of Bashir that allowed them into Lebanon.

    So a hero to some and a villain to others. Also the fact that he was killed could help his image and the couple of speeches he made after elected president. SG on the other hand was thrown in jail and actually convicted of crimes.

    I request that EVERYONE reading this thread go to this link and read some facts...

    http://www.lfpm.org/forum/showpost.php?p=180112

    Cheers,

    drkalsaee
    Ok let's just take a second over here and look at what you're saying. You're saying that hizbulla have a cause right, and that is to deny any foriegn interference, so what's up with syria then ?

    Just to correct some of ur information too and the information of the person who u refered too in the link. First of all, the LF never fought side by side with the Israelis. They remained on the side and allowed the Israelis to go into the Palestinian camps, and just so u know how dirty the PLO were. They use to have thier bases in residential areas. That is also what angered sharon and the israelis incredibly. Bachir did not want to be just pictures as any other warlord but as a real Lebanese president so everybody would accept him.

    Anyway that's not the case. Bachir fought for all of Lebanon and u can strictly refer to his qoute saying that Lebanon is not only for the christians but for everybody and unity is our only salvation against all the international plans that have been set against Lebanon.

    Look at how many fighters from different nations u had. You had algerians,somalians,syrians,jordanians,palestinians,saudis,israelis, americans, and french all fight their wars on the Lebanese turf and we glady took the bait. That's what Bachir was constantly refering to.

    Another thing you can also refer to is the fact that Hizbullah my friend practiced a very hypocritical ideology. They did not want foreign interference but they accepted the syrian occupation. Now how is that possible ?

    Bachir also was using the israelis to his own advantage, and he certainly was not going to allow them to remain in Lebanon. He actually flipped when he found out there were plans for the Israelis to stay in Lebanon and he strictly refused that.

    So why was he killed? He was killed because he was everybody's enemy at that point and he stood infront of the kisinger plan. He was the israeli's enenmy because he did not want them to stay in Lebanon. He was the syrian's enemy because he did not want them to stay in Lebanon. He was the Palestinians enemy because he did not want them to stay in Lebanon. So in the end what do u actually do with a person like that? You kill him.

    Do u know who was in charge of his security back then ? Elie Hobieka. And did u know that Elie Hobieka knew about plans to assasinate Bachir but he did not take the measures. How was Habib Chartouni able to sneak in a bomb into the building. And then where did he end up? He ended up creating his own LF wing that was protected by syria after he completed a coup over Fadi Frem, who in turn was overthrown by a coup of Samir Geagea. This is where we get to geagea.

    I don't suppose u want me to get the list of taxations he use to impose on the Lebanese people during his time? And how is it that during Geagea's era there was a widespread drug usage in the free-areas? You want an answer. Go to Bchareh now, drugs are still being grown there. Another recent event, look at SGs house. It's an interesting palace right in Arez. Nothing special since all ex-warlords have one as they stole and pillaged the people. In 1982 the LF was at the height of its power and wealth and did u know what Bachir had. He had an appartment in achrafieh. That's pretty luxorious isn't it.

    One other thing, Bachir was never commited an mass murders, and especially never murdered any innocent people. He killed members of other militias because he had to form a unified front. He did that by laying siege to the Franjieh house, and do u know who was in charge of that? SG. And did u know what SG and elie hobieka were to Bachir. They were his ravaging dogs on a leech. It's a common known fact around this forum that SG did everything he could to erase Bachir's memory and when he found himself cornered he would distribute pictures of him. He's an oppurtunist. Anyway he preffered to be able to control them and not have them pitted against him. Bachir ordered the siege
    of the Franjieh house on the account that the Franjieh family wasn't there
    and that it would be just to frighten him and have him join the LF. However,
    Franjieh turned out to be there, and since the hero SG was in charge of the operation then guess what happened? He even killed the dog...

    Just to conclude this, Bachir is a person that is hated and loved by many. In my opinion that's because he never had the chance to complete what he wanted. If he did Lebanon would have probably been a much different place, so Basically that is what's the difference.

    Bachir is a unifier and believed in the 10452km2

    SG is a divider and believed in the 5226km2, and i hope people know what i mean by that one.
     
    #13
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    bashir and samir are the same in my view, both are christian sectarian warlords/criminals.

    but the difference is in the popularity.
    geagea never had real popularity among christians and was hated by muslims.

    bachir was very popular among christians, and he killed those who were against him to stay alone in the christian street.
     

    WiseCookie

    Well-Known Member
    #14
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    I_Am_LebanoN said:

    bachir was very popular among christians, and he killed those who were against him to stay alone in the christian street.
    That depends on how u actually see it, and pretty much he did not kill all ALL those who were against him. Most followed him peacefully. Anyway, u can see it as a way to have a united front or u can see it as a way for him to have sole power, but if u read more about him and listen to him, ull probably agree with me on the first option.
     
    #15
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    WiseCookie said:
    That depends on how u actually see it, and pretty much he did not kill all ALL those who were against him. Most followed him peacefully. Anyway, u can see it as a way to have a united front or u can see it as a way for him to have sole power, but if u read more about him and listen to him, ull probably agree with me on the first option.
    i always see the killings as an unforgivable crime , whether he killed all or not all those who were against him.

    he was killing lebanese people to protect us from palestinians and syrians, because if palestinians or syrians ruled us they will kill lebanese people.
    then what's the difference?:confused:

    i could understand that a syrian kills a lebanese, but i could not understand that a lebanese kills a lebanese.
     

    BOILER

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #16
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    drkalsaee said:
    LebArmenian,

    enter Lebanon ya 3alam, maybe Israel helped with some people's fight against the Palestinians bas still Israel ruined the lives and killed many innocent people. Israel layyed seige and floored a lot of the infrastructure in Lebanon. This was all the work of Bashir that allowed them into Lebanon.


    u can't say that.because all who brought an outsider to fight with a lebanese is a traitor.and who didn't do that.i don't think syri ais better than israel or palestibe.all r the same.we were the victims.but glory to those who fought an outsider occupation.
    [
     

    drkalsaee

    Active Member
    #17
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    Very nice post wisecookie,

    You made a mistake by assuming I was defending Hezbollah's cause. I was just citing an example 7abibi, everyone in Lebanon fights for a cause, even if the cause could be popularity or money.

    Now tell me something, when you speak about hypocrisy, tell me wasn't BG a hypocrite to refuse palestinians and invite the Israelis? It was him that brought Israel in, and it was the CIA and the Israelis that helped him get to where he did as a president. He marched with the foreign occupation.

    By the way, by your logic, Bashaar Al-Asad is not a killer, because he never killed anyone by his own hands. Bashir ordered the killing of many Lebanese and his biggest mistake was inviting Israel in.

    Now Wisecookie, do you know that when Israel occupied a large portion of the south that they used to put signs in Hebrew? Wasn't this occupation? Who is responsible for that? How can you prove to me that BG was against Israel at the end? And even if he was, he made a mistake that will never be forgiven. Oh and you know, it's his mistake of inviting Israel that we now have Hezbollah at such a strong position. Think about it.
     

    BOILER

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    #18
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    drkalsaee said:
    Very nice post wisecookie,


    Now tell me something, when you speak about hypocrisy, tell me wasn't BG a hypocrite to refuse palestinians and invite the Israelis? It was him that brought Israel in, and it was the CIA and the Israelis that helped him get to where he did as a president. He marched with the foreign occupation.

    By the way, by your logic, Bashaar Al-Asad is not a killer, because he never killed anyone by his own hands. Bashir ordered the killing of many Lebanese and his biggest mistake was inviting Israel in.

    i'm not defending bachir but u can't say when he made a president christians weren't after him.i know he was a warlord but when going back to that period,all participated in killing lebanon.if u find that he made a big crime in letting israel in, for me ones who helped the palestines to do that and who fought with them another lebanese parties made the same big crime.
     

    JoeFPM

    Well-Known Member
    #19
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    WiseCookie said:
    hat depends on how u actually see it, and pretty much he did not kill all ALL those who were against him. Most followed him peacefully.

    dany chamoun, rémond éddé, tony franjyé,...ta ma nsami ghayron...


    WiseCookie said:
    T. Anyway, u can see it as a way to have a united front or u can see it as a way for him to have sole power, but if u read more about him and listen to him, ull probably agree with me on the first option.
    according to your logic the syrian occupation in lebanon was necessary for lebanon...lets see..
    u can see the syrian occupation in lebanon as a united front to fight the israelis and to keep the security in lebanon...or u can see it as a way for the syrians to control and murder our country...but if u read more about hafez el assad and the arabo-israeli conflict u ll probably agree with me on the first option :wink:
     
    #20
    Re: What's the difference between BG and SG?

    WiseCookie said:
    Bachir is a unifier and believed in the 10452km2

    SG is a divider and believed in the 5226km2, and i hope people know what i mean by that one.
    Quite an interesting post i must say, and you are correct in saying: Many ppl loved Bachir and Many ppl hated him.. He's an extremelly controvertial fellow. I do not think he is very humane tho (i.E: differentiated and segregated between human biengs, wether it be by religion, familial ties, and what not), but he certainly wasn NOT a geagea or a Hobeika.. Those few, alongside Jumblatt and Berri AND Arafat are in a Class of their own.

    now i am interested in this part wise amigo?!

    were did you get this NUMBER from (5226), LoL


    regds
    Dr. Dude HAPPY BIRTHDAY :D said:
    And even if he was, he made a mistake that will never be forgiven. Oh and you know, it's his mistake of inviting Israel that we now have Hezbollah at such a strong position. Think about it.
    Dr. San,

    Did the US. need Saddams invitation to go into iraq??
    Would Israel have needed an invitation to go into lebanon ??


    regds
     

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