Who historically persecuted the Maronites? Your thoughts...

W

What

New Member
The Byzantine Empire in Constantinople started another round of major persecution of the “heretic” Christian sects that opted to pay allegiance to the Pope of Rome. Among those persecuted Christian sects was the Maronite sect which fled and took refuge in the northern parts of the mountainous Mount Lebanon.

The Melkite (Royalist) Christian sect, later called the Orthodox Church, was the main persecutor of the Maronites and not any Muslim sect.
 
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  • Muki

    Muki

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    Some sources for the information you are presenting will make your thread more credible. To say Muslims did not persecute the Maronites, when Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites is well-documented in history, well that's quite a reach to say the least.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

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    Some sources for the information you are presenting will make your thread more credible. To say Muslims did not persecute the Maronites, when Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites is well-documented in history, well that's quite a reach to say the least.
    No no it was the damn byzantine!! Thise paleologos @manifesto keeps following on twitter i tell ya!
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    Muslims, just like they persecuted every other Christian sect. But they persecuted Maronites the most because they refused the Arab identity, keeping their Syriac identity.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

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    Melkites persecuting Maronites lol? Melkites are an off-shoot of the Greek Orthodox Church who embraced Papal rule and thus became Catholics, not the other way around.
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    Some sources for the information you are presenting will make your thread more credible. To say Muslims did not persecute the Maronites, when Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites is well-documented in history, well that's quite a reach to say the least.
    Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites? I mean, I dunno, that might be the case, but Maronites prospered and increased in number under the Ottomans, hence the creation of Lebanon.

    I think the bigger misperception is the persecution of Christians under Islam when the Near East was conquered. There was probably no mass conversion but very slow conversion and immigration that lead to the area being majority Muslim nowadays. Sure, there was discrimination and a jizya that needed to be paid as well as political privileges that came with being Muslim, but there's no evidence of mass forced conversions, expulsions or extermination.

    Now contrast that with the great Christian conquests of Spain and every other corner of the New World.
     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites? I mean, I dunno, that might be the case, but Maronites prospered and increased in number under the Ottomans, hence the creation of Lebanon.

    I think the bigger misperception is the persecution of Christians under Islam when the Near East was conquered. There was probably no mass conversion but very slow conversion and immigration that lead to the area being majority Muslim nowadays. Sure, there was discrimination and a jizya that needed to be paid as well as political privileges that came with being Muslim, but there's no evidence of mass forced conversions, expulsions or extermination.

    Now contrast that with the great Christian conquests of Spain and every other corner of the New World.
    Indeed, during the events of 1860 and the famine of 1915 the Maronite prospered and multiplied. Thank you Ottomans for your blessings of wiping out more than a third of Maronite and forcing another third to migrate.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    Indeed, during the events of 1860 and the famine of 1915 the Maronite prospered and multiplied. Thank you Ottomans for your blessings of wiping out more than a third of Maronite and forcing another third to migrate.
    Now I'm more convinced that Jorje is a rabid Muslim hiding behind a Christian name.

    The extent to which he'll go to defend Islam and whitewash its violent history is just unbelievable.
     
    W

    What

    New Member
    Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites? I mean, I dunno, that might be the case, but Maronites prospered and increased in number under the Ottomans, hence the creation of Lebanon.

    I think the bigger misperception is the persecution of Christians under Islam when the Near East was conquered. There was probably no mass conversion but very slow conversion and immigration that lead to the area being majority Muslim nowadays. Sure, there was discrimination and a jizya that needed to be paid as well as political privileges that came with being Muslim, but there's no evidence of mass forced conversions, expulsions or extermination.

    Now contrast that with the great Christian conquests of Spain and every other corner of the New World.
    Be Christian or die." There's no sense in pretending this was an exceptional missionary tactic; for many centuries, it was the method of choice among Christian rulers and missionaries. If Islam behaved in the same manner, their wont be native Christians in the Mideast .

    Forced conversions in Christianity was influence by the interpretation of Jesus teachings according to professor Richard Fletcher, history professor at the University of York, England ,

    Further more early Muslim were the model of tolerance they even built Church's like caliphate Omar as a sign of tolerance - what undermined Muslim tolerance was adopting Jude-Christian values according to western scholars i will provide details later on , nonetheless Muslim remind far more tolerance then the western or eastern or Mideast Christianity in pre Islamic times - furthermore in the case of Jizya (Tax)both Christianity & Judaism had stiffer Jizya (Tax) to the point that both Muslim& Christians preferred Muslim Jizya (Tax) especially Jews who previously lived in Christendom - yet Christian Jizys didnt lead to Jewish conversion to Christianity which invited more prosecution in an effort to convert them .

    Modern times : When France colonized Muslims in Algeria they treated them as second class and made every effort to convert them to Christianity , when France realized it couldn't convert them they abandoned Algeria
     
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    Indie

    Indie

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    Now I'm more convinced that Jorje is a rabid Muslim hiding behind a Christian name.

    The extent to which he'll go to defend Islam and whitewash its violent history is just unbelievable.
    You just realized this?

    He used to like me until I started to speak out against islamic migration to the West. That's when his Indie hatred started.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites? I mean, I dunno, that might be the case, but Maronites prospered and increased in number under the Ottomans, hence the creation of Lebanon.
    The starvation of the people of Lebanon under Ottoman rule is well documented. It also resulted in the first mass migration of Lebanese to places like Brazil.

    The Ottomans had nothing to do with the creation of Lebanon. It was a joint Maronite / French project.

    I think the bigger misperception is the persecution of Christians under Islam when the Near East was conquered. There was probably no mass conversion but very slow conversion and immigration that lead to the area being majority Muslim nowadays. Sure, there was discrimination and a jizya that needed to be paid as well as political privileges that came with being Muslim, but there's no evidence of mass forced conversions, expulsions or extermination.
    Right. And the Armenian genocide never happened, nor did Armenians lose 9/10th of their historical lands.
     
    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    For all the geniuses in here, 1914 was not specifically directed towards Maronites afaik. All of Lebanon suffered.

    And yes, there were obviously periods where the Ottomans intervened for the sake of other Muslim communities, but this would be a myopic look on history. It's a historical consensus that the Ottoman millet system was critical to the stability of the empire by giving religious minorities autonomy and their rights to worship. Can even call them 'national rights'. This is all basic information that you could look up if you actually read. It's also a fact that Maronites prospered in the 19th century, despite the 1860 war.. hence their increase in number and power becoming the largest community in Lebanon by early 20th century. How did this happen?

    In your black/white myopic world, you may not be able to integrate or acknowledge historical facts like these. Too much to ask for, there.
     
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    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    Now I'm more convinced that Jorje is a rabid Muslim hiding behind a Christian name.

    The extent to which he'll go to defend Islam and whitewash its violent history is just unbelievable.
    LOL. :lol:

    You want people to trash Islam all the time because of, I dunno, deep seated personal hatred. I'm just not gonna go down that route because I could look at actual history in a more objective way.

    Frankly I think Islam was much less violent than Christianity, actually. You could make that point with reasonable confidence.

    Where did the Jews go when they were exterminated from Spain? Take a guess.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    Ottoman persecution and starvation of Maronites? I mean, I dunno, that might be the case, but Maronites prospered and increased in number under the Ottomans, hence the creation of Lebanon.

    I think the bigger misperception is the persecution of Christians under Islam when the Near East was conquered. There was probably no mass conversion but very slow conversion and immigration that lead to the area being majority Muslim nowadays. Sure, there was discrimination and a jizya that needed to be paid as well as political privileges that came with being Muslim, but there's no evidence of mass forced conversions, expulsions or extermination.

    Now contrast that with the great Christian conquests of Spain and every other corner of the New World.

    The increase of the Christian population in Mount Lebanon had nothing to do with the Moslem Ottomans. It was the Druze's hospitality and welcoming of Christian refugees to the area which allowed the community to grow.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Member
    For all the geniuses in here, 1914 was not specifically directed towards Maronites afaik. All of Lebanon suffered.

    And yes, there were obviously periods where the Ottomans intervened for the sake of other Muslim communities, but this would be a myopic look on history. It's a historical consensus that the Ottoman millet system was critical to the stability of the empire by giving religious minorities autonomy and their rights to worship. Can even call them 'national rights'. This is all basic information that you could look up if you actually read. It's also a fact that Maronites prospered in the 19th century, despite the 1860 war.. hence their increase in number and power becoming the largest community in Lebanon by early 20th century. How did this happen?

    In your black/white myopic world, you may not be able to integrate or acknowledge historical facts like these. Too much to ask for, there.

    Lebanon at the time was just Mount Lebanon, which had a Christian majority. Do you really believe them targeting Lebanon had nothing to do with its Christian majority, when the same Ottomans had just genocided Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks?!
     
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    Jorje

    Jorje

    Legendary Member
    You just realized this?

    He used to like me until I started to speak out against islamic migration to the West. That's when his Indie hatred started.
    Translation: you used to more tolerable as the armpit hair loving feminist hipster before your most recent metamorphosis into an altright bigot Princess.
     
    Indie

    Indie

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    Orange Room Supporter
    Translation: you used to more tolerable as the armpit hair loving feminist hipster before your most recent metamorphosis into an altright bigot Princess.
    You can phrase it however you want. It changes nothing to the meaning.
     
    AtheistForJesus

    AtheistForJesus

    Well-Known Member
    LOL. :lol:

    You want people to trash Islam all the time because of, I dunno, deep seated personal hatred. I'm just not gonna go down that route because I could look at actual history in a more objective way.

    Frankly I think Islam was much less violent than Christianity, actually. You could make that point with reasonable confidence.

    Where did the Jews go when they were exterminated from Spain? Take a guess.
    I don't care about history.
    Many horrific crimes have been wrongly committed in the name of Christianity, by people who had nothing to do with Christianity.

    But today, there's only one group of people committing violence out of religious motives, and that is Islamists.
    Only Islamic countries have the death sentence for something as trivial as converting to another religion.

    Christianity is very clear in its condemnation of violence.
    All you have to do is compare the Pope's sermons with the fatwas that come out from Al Azhar, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, to realize how
    weak your argument is.

    Deep seated personal hatred? LOL
    It's Islam that hates everyone dude.

    And now I'll leave it to your Pakistani friends to demonstrate the peacefulness of Islam.

     
    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    CitizenOfTheRepublic

    Legendary Member
    For all the geniuses in here, 1914 was not specifically directed towards Maronites afaik. All of Lebanon suffered.

    And yes, there were obviously periods where the Ottomans intervened for the sake of other Muslim communities, but this would be a myopic look on history. It's a historical consensus that the Ottoman millet system was critical to the stability of the empire by giving religious minorities autonomy and their rights to worship. Can even call them 'national rights'. This is all basic information that you could look up if you actually read. It's also a fact that Maronites prospered in the 19th century, despite the 1860 war.. hence their increase in number and power becoming the largest community in Lebanon by early 20th century. How did this happen?

    In your black/white myopic world, you may not be able to integrate or acknowledge historical facts like these. Too much to ask for, there.
    Yes, quelle coïncidence that the overwhelming majority of the ones wiped out by the 1915 famine are Maronites. And yeah, the events of 1860 are oh so minor, only 10s of thousands perished. After all, who cares, those pesky Maronite were able to multiply so all the dead are forgotten and in conclusion thank you dear Ottomans for your blessings. Not to mention the beauty of safar barlek and forced labor.
     
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