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Who killed ramzi irani ? and whats setrida role ?

  • Thread starter HannaTheCrusader
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Manifesto

Manifesto

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I think Bachir's popularity and the love he has from a lot of people is due to the fact that he was killed at the top of his popularity to be honest. What he said he wanted to do to Lebanon and the idea he had made people love him, but he didn't get to implement it. It's like god forbid GMA was killed in 1990, people would be talking about him the same way.
However, massacres are still massacres, the Safra massacre is inexcusable. You can't tell me it had to be done. No it didn't, at all. Nor was the Ehden massacre. Taking away all the blame from Bachir is wrong.
Funny you only mentioned Safra and Ehden, although they resulted in far fewer deaths than other massacres.
Did the Karantina and Tel el Zaatar massacres have to be done?
Does a war crime stop being a war crime when the victim is Palestinian?
 
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  • Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Yes, because rounding up 1500 Palestinian citizens and killing them with their women and children is an act of self defense.
    It's just a shortcoming as you said.

    Also, when did you hear me praise Arafat, to accuse me of having an ISIS mentality?
    do you not understand what you read? i just told you i do not condone massacres and that people have to fight with honor when they are forced to do so.

    all of your history is simply about trying to tarnish others to make them as dirty as you are. you should instead try to clean yourself up, that will make for a better equality.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    do you not understand what you read? i just told you i do not condone massacres and that people have to fight with honor when they are forced to do so.

    all of your history is simply about trying to tarnish others to make them as dirty as you are. you should instead try to clean yourself up, that will make for a better equality.
    For someone who wrote a 3-paragraph post trying to justify Bachir's use of violence and downplay his criminal record by saying "no one is perfect", it's clear you don't condone massacres.

    Anyway, I want to paraphrase Bassil. "Christians will forget Bachir's leadership" for good. You know why? Because the moment another sectarian blood-thirsty Maronite thug appears, we will make sure to send him back to you in a coffin.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
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    For someone who wrote a 3-paragraph post trying to justify Bachir's use of violence and downplay his criminal record by saying "no one is perfect", it's clear you don't condone massacres.

    Anyway, I want to paraphrase Bassil. "Christians will forget Bachir's leadership" for good. You know why? Because the moment another sectarian blood-thirsty Maronite thug appears, we will make sure to send him back to you in a coffin.
    That's fair. You should stop whining when you are sent coffins back in return.
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
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    That's fair. You should stop whining when you are sent coffins back in return.
    Throughout our history, we only fought in self-defense, be it from PLO or Maronite-Israeli aggression.
    Our record is a testament to that.

    But rest assured. Eza eja Bachir Gemayel aw Antoine Lahd teneh, ra7 ennazlo ta7t sebi3 ared.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    For someone who wrote a 3-paragraph post trying to justify Bachir's use of violence and downplay his criminal record by saying "no one is perfect", it's clear you don't condone massacres.

    Anyway, I want to paraphrase Bassil. "Christians will forget Bachir's leadership" for good. You know why? Because the moment another sectarian blood-thirsty Maronite thug appears, we will make sure to send him back to you in a coffin.
    what does that "we" stand for? the coalition of bisexual atheist shiite trolls? the irony is that if your own community - the people you refer to as "we" - finds out about you they will hang you from your balls and throw you from the nearest roof top. so shut up and go to bed.
     
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    light-in-dark

    light-in-dark

    Legendary Member
    Throughout our history, we only fought in self-defense, be it from PLO or Maronite-Israeli aggression.
    Our record is a testament to that.

    But rest assured. Eza eja Bachir Gemayel aw Antoine Lahd teneh, ra7 ennazlo ta7t sebi3 ared.
    I think that you are out of subject. This thread is about Ramzi Irani.
    Secondly my friend take it easy and calm down your nerves. Don’t commit any crime else you will go to prison.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
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    I think that you are out of subject. This thread is about Ramzi Irani.
    Secondly my friend take it easy and calm down your nerves. Don’t commit any crime else you will go to prison.
    W aham shi, kol khas.
    @manifesto
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Throughout our history, we only fought in self-defense, be it from PLO or Maronite-Israeli aggression.
    Our record is a testament to that.

    But rest assured. Eza eja Bachir Gemayel aw Antoine Lahd teneh, ra7 ennazlo ta7t sebi3 ared.
    Akbar wa7ad fikon byiswash sormayto la Bashir Gemayel.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I an not accusing anyone or defending anyone but why would the Syrian regime kill Ramzi Irani? Was he a threat in any way to the occupation and or to the political class at that time? Why would they kill the Head of the students' sector in a party? Why didn't they assassinate Setrida instead for example?
     
    Manifesto

    Manifesto

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    what does that "we" stand for? the coalition of bisexual atheist shiite trolls? the irony is that if your own community - the people you refer to as "we" - finds out about you they will hang you from your balls and throw you from the nearest roof top. so shut up and go to bed.
    By we, I meant us, free-thinking liberals who oppose fascism and sectarian-motivated violence.
    Also, I don't consider Hizbullah my community. They may be the most popular Shiite party, but they don't represent all Lebanese Shiites.
    Remember, 50% of the Shiite population did not vote.
     
    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Lebanon_not_Arabic

    Well-Known Member
    I understand your hate for Bachir.
    During wartime, people from your caliber (Awme, Baathi, leftist, pro-Palestinian, communist ... bref, the whole tabbous) were the enemy.

    Without him, your Palestinian Mo/bro would be chatting with you from his chalet in Faraya.

    Jounieh would be another Gaza, or another dahieh....le paradis quoi!

    Mich ........ ella l Maronites w Bachir (min abro, 37 years after his martyrdom) and apparently it is working!:cool:
     
    The_FPMer

    The_FPMer

    Active Member
    I think Bachir's popularity and the love he has from a lot of people is due to the fact that he was killed at the top of his popularity to be honest. What he said he wanted to do to Lebanon and the idea he had made people love him, but he didn't get to implement it. It's like god forbid GMA was killed in 1990, people would be talking about him the same way.
    However, massacres are still massacres, the Safra massacre is inexcusable. You can't tell me it had to be done. No it didn't, at all. Nor was the Ehden massacre. Taking away all the blame from Bachir is wrong.
    He was the most popular way before he was killed.

    Safra was a necessity, a lot of undisciplined Ahrar militiamen were roaming free and causing mayhem. Kamil Chamoun himself gave the green light. What was inexcusable, is the way it was handled.
     
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    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
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    Sounds like typical Syrian mukhabarat tale.
    eliano was a high ranking i ouwat
    and he has been accusing setrda for years

    HE HAS CHALLENGED SETRIDA TO TAKE HIM TO COURTS and she will never dare
     
    Abotareq93

    Abotareq93

    Legendary Member
    He was the most popular way before he was killed.

    Safra was a necessity, a lot of undisciplined Ahrar militiamen were roaming free and causing mayhem. Kamil Chamoun himself gave the green light. What was inexcusable, is the way it was handled.
    Again, what gave him the right to unify the Christian factions by force? Who said that he didn't have ze3ran among his militants? Ahrar were real freedom fighters; they were the ones who fought Damour battle and they participated in liberating Tal ElZaatar Camp. Kataeb didn't have any role in Tal ElZaatar; in the contrary, they tried to back stab those who were fighting there. I know Ahrar members who died in Safra but they were not ze3ran, they had a cause and were fighting for it. Was raping Dany Chamoun's wife part of the unification of the Christians? Camille Chamoun was very upset of what happened but he couldn't do anything.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Again, what gave him the right to unify the Christian factions by force? Who said that he didn't have ze3ran among his militants? Ahrar were real freedom fighters; they were the ones who fought Damour battle and they participated in liberating Tal ElZaatar Camp. Kataeb didn't have any role in Tal ElZaatar; in the contrary, they tried to back stab those who were fighting there. I know Ahrar members who died in Safra but they were not ze3ran, they had a cause and were fighting for it. Was raping Dany Chamoun's wife part of the unification of the Christians? Camille Chamoun was very upset of what happened but he couldn't do anything.
    الله
    الوطن
    العائلة
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I love propaganda threads. They so cool :)
    @HannaTheCrusader succeeded in creating a Bullshit discussion here, but I am more curious as to why? recently he has deliberately been doing this, and I know hanna too well to know this is no coincidence :)
    JL JL JL

    my brother

    ouwat is a golden name taken over by a criminal couple.

    ga3ga3 health is failing and they need to think about a heir
    strida has a lot to answer when it comes to how she ran ouat and ramzi case

    what i am tying to do, is shed light on that criminal duo., who took a golden party and turned it into a mafoa fief and a regional one ) bchare and co)
     
    HannaTheCrusader

    HannaTheCrusader

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    eliano is truly worried that he will meet an untimely death


    في حديثه لـ"ليبانون ديبايت"، يؤكد المير أن كلامه يأتي في اطار توثيق تاريخي لما جرى في تلك الحقبة "لا أكثر ولا أقل" رافضاً تحميل منشوراته أكثر مما تحمل، أو الايحاء بأنه اتهم النائب جعجع بقتل "رمزي"، فهو ليس ضابطة عدلية ليتهم أي طرف.

    ويستذكر المير الوزير غازي العريضي حين كان وزيراً للاعلام في تلك الحقبة وخرج ليتهمه في القضية حين أعلن عن أول حرف من اسمه قبل أن "يفبركوا" له ملفا لتوريطه.

    وبرأي المير الشخصي، فإن "ستريدا جعجع بعيدة عن هذه الأعمال وبالتالي يستبعد تورطها في هذه القضية، لاسيما وأنها كانت ضعيفة في تلك الحقبة لارتكاب هكذا أعمال".

    ويسترجع المير أحداث تلك الحقبة ليؤكد أن س"تريدا كانت تريد اخراج عيراني من القوات على خلفية انفصال الجنرال فؤاد مالك من الحزب ليترأس بعدها الحركة التصحيحة في القوات، حيث كان يردد عيراني لرفاقه أنه معهم في القلب ومع "مالك" في "العقل"".

    ويشير المير الى أن رمزي ارتكب خطأ يومها بإحضاره المسؤول في الحركة التصحيحية في القوات ريشار جريصاتي الى الدائرة القواتية المسؤول عنها عيراني في الجامعة اللبنانية ما اثار غضبا كبيرا لدى ستريدا جعجع التي قررت فصل عيراني من الحزب، وتأتي هذه الخطوة بإطار رغبة النائب جعجع يومها بتولي مام الامور في الحزب.

    وانطلاقاً من هنا، يؤكد المير أنه "غير معني بأي تحليل خارج عن نطاق الوصف والتوثيق التاريخي للحادثة، متخوفاً من اقحامه في سجال قد يدفع ثمنه ويتحول الى "كبش محرقة" كرمزي عيراني لاتهام جعجع أو اللواء السيد في القضية".

    يذكر أن "المير نشر على صفحته على "الفايسبوك" بياناً رد فيه على كلام اللواء جميل السيد، أوضح فيه بعض النقاط، جاء فيه:

    تعقيباً، على ما ورد من قبل النائب جميل السيد وزج اسمي في إطار اتهامات متبادلة بينه وبين النائب ستريدا جعجع بقضية اغتيال الشهيد رمزي عيراني يهمني توضيح النقاط التالية:

    أولاً: انا لم اتهم يوما ستريدا جعجع بقضية اغتيال الشهيد رمزي عيراني بل قمت بنشر شهادتي حول جميع الظروف والمعطيات التي سبقت ورافقت قضية الاغتيال وكان عتبي على ستريدا وفريقها هو موضوع تخوين الرفاق الذين لم يدينوها الولاء.

    ثانياً: ما زلت على رأيي واقول رأيي الشخصي لأنني لست ضابطة عدلية او الجهة المخولة بالإتهام، انما ما زلت مقتنع بالجواب الذي أعطيته إلى عدنان عضوم عندما سألني عن الجهة القاتلة وهي جهة نافذة وتملك سلطة ونفوذ وعندها جن جنونه وصرخ بوجهي قائلاً: "هل تتهم السلطة هل تتهمنا".

    ثالثاً: اضع دم رفيقي وصديقي رمزي برقبة السلطة السياسية والامنية في تلك الفترة لأنها هي وحدها كانت الآمر والناهي والمتحكم بجميع مفاصل الدولة الامنية والقضائية.

    رابعاً وأخيراً: أنا على ثقة بأن العدالة لن نشهدها في لبنان في وجود هذه الطبقة السياسية العقيمة انما لا مفر ومهرب في نهاية المطاف من عدالة السماء.

    أما إلى جميع المصطادين في الماء العكر... أوقفوا سجالتكم فوراً وطالبوا بإعادة التحقيق الجدي والشفاف للوصول الى العدالة.
     
    Tayyar9

    Tayyar9

    Legendary Member
    bachir was a charismatic young leader who organized the scattered ranks of the Christians and established the Lebanese Forces albeit by force, he is also credit for establishing the Lebanese Front, and putting an end to the string of defeats that the Christians have been afflicted with. he turned the scenario from fleeing for their lives into fighting to win as he gave them a well established cause.

    the forging of the Lebanese Forces was a bloody affair, and it was one of bachir's greatest falls, but many thought that the unification of the ever feuding military parties was worth it, and from a military strategic perspective it was. the only regret is that the Christian leaders couldn't come to that conclusion without a bloody mini-war.

    he had his shortcomings, no one is perfect. but make no mistakes, GMA himself is continuing the objective set by the Lebanese front, our beef with the Lebanese Forces is simply the person of samir geagea who has hijacked the party through a series of uprisings and revolts. the Lebanese Forces was supposed to be the military arm of the Lebanese Front, and samir jeajea simply couldn't understand that. the rest is history, and now the flame is being carried by FPM, bassil seems to be turning out smarter than bachir, albeit not as charismatic, and that is something he should work on going forward.

    it is beyond normal that all the leftist will have nothing but subjective hatred towards bachir and his accomplishments.
    What the Lebanese Forces were supposed to be and what they are is the reason FPM is the leading christian party, because all those who were with LF in the early 80s are not anymore. I agree with you that the vision might be the same, but GMA is different than Bachir, that's for sure
     
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