Who/what is Allah?

NewLeb

NewLeb

New Member
Part I.

There seems to be a lot of ignorance and confusion among the general peoples (even among Muslims) in respect to the nature of Allah. Most view Him as a god, whether it be the same Abrahamic god that’s worshipped by Christians or Jews; or a completely different idea of a god as invented by the Arabs.

Neither opinion is factual. Why? Because Allah is not a god to begin with. La ilaha il Allah means “there is no god but Allah.” Now, let’s pause for a moment and consider the word ‘god.’ Anything in this universe can be essentially worshipped as a god- mountains; vaginas (it’s been done); humans- yes, anything that the mind can conceive of can be worshipped as a god. Yet Allah is beyond human comprehension.

It is clear-cut in Islam that Allah is One. He is the Eternal, and thus cannot be separated from His creation in terms of physicality, as that would mean you have two different entities at place (God vs the universe). However, this in no way means that the universe is God, or vice verse, again in terms of physicality. No, the universe is just one, singular instance of a Divine thought within the infinite knowledge of Allah.

For example, if you were to create a character within your own mind, this doesn’t mean that the idea of the being that you created really exists in an absolute sense. However, it does have a relative existence, based on your willingness to keep the idea going.

Allah then is not some sort of personality that rewards and punishes humans based on their respective acts, at least literally speaking. Submission to Allah (Islam) is simply being in tune to the Reality of creation, for Allah is the only Reality. It is the extent to which a Muslim (one who acts in accordance to Reality) acts in respect to the realities of the universe on every possible level.
 
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  • ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    That's a modern reading that defies authentic Islamic readings and sources.

    Mohammad is reported to have seen Allah appear as a brown man with curly green hair.

    Allah in Islam literally sits on a throne somewhere in the universe, and has hell and heaven where people there literally watch each other and he replaces their skin when it is burnt out.

    And the sky is a hard ceiling with water above it. And the stars are lamps on that ceiling which he brings down to blast demons (like in Zoroastrianism).

    He is rooted in Zoroastrian and Hindu mythology but his evil counterpart (Satan) is rooted in secondary Judaism / human-written Jewish sources.

    And "No God but Allah" does mean he is a God. Your logic to say it doesn't doesn't make sense. A God doesn't have to be within comprehension.
     
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    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    لَقَدۡ اَرۡسَلۡنَا نُوۡحًا اِلٰى قَوۡمِهٖ فَقَالَ يٰقَوۡمِ اعۡبُدُوا اللّٰهَ مَا لَـكُمۡ مِّنۡ اِلٰهٍ غَيۡرُهٗ ؕ اِنِّىۡۤ اَخَافُ عَلَيۡكُمۡ عَذَابَ يَوۡمٍ عَظِيۡمٍ‏

    Also the Qur'an does make sure to specify that he is a God. And that "you have no God but him". Not sure if you know Arabic though.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The Islamic God is really Krishna. A young man with magic powers (e.g Mohammad always saying he saw God appear in a child or a young man). The Kaaba is a Hindu temple and the Black stone is a Shiva Linga.



    Abraham is Brahma. And Sarah is Sarawati.
    And if you look deeper, you find more secrets I'm not allowed to share with you.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    سَأَلَ الْحَارِثُ بْنُ هِشَامٍ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم كَيْفَ يَأْتِيكَ الْوَحْىُ قَالَ ‏ “‏ فِي مِثْلِ صَلْصَلَةِ الْجَرَسِ فَيَفْصِمُ عَنِّي وَقَدْ وَعَيْتُ وَهُوَ أَشَدُّهُ عَلَىَّ وَأَحْيَانًا يَأْتِينِي فِي مِثْلِ صُورَةِ الْفَتَى فَيَنْبِذُهُ إِلَىَّ ‏”‏ ‏.‏
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    The Islamic God is really Krishna. A young man with magic powers (e.g Mohammad always saying he saw God appear in a child or a young man). The Kaaba is a Hindu temple and the Black stone is a Shiva Linga.



    Abraham is Brahma. And Sarah is Sarawati.
    And if you look deeper, you find more secrets I'm not allowed to share with you.
    Lol, way to miss the whole point of the OP.
     
    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    ܐܵܠܘܼܟ̰ܵܐ

    Active Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Lol, way to miss the whole point of the OP.
    I responded to the OP and answered the title.
    Your modern reading is not found among any old Islamic scholar in its basic premises. And it defies pages and pages of Islam.
    To say Allah is not God. And defend mentalism (the world is just his thought), etc etc.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Part I.

    There seems to be a lot of ignorance and confusion among the general peoples (even among Muslims) in respect to the nature of Allah. Most view Him as a god, whether it be the same Abrahamic god that’s worshipped by Christians or Jews; or a completely different idea of a god as invented by the Arabs.

    Neither opinion is factual. Why? Because Allah is not a god to begin with. La ilaha il Allah means “there is no god but Allah.” Now, let’s pause for a moment and consider the word ‘god.’ Anything in this universe can be essentially worshipped as a god- mountains; vaginas (it’s been done); humans- yes, anything that the mind can conceive of can be worshipped as a god. Yet Allah is beyond human comprehension.

    It is clear-cut in Islam that Allah is One. He is the Eternal, and thus cannot be separated from His creation in terms of physicality, as that would mean you have two different entities at place (God vs the universe). However, this in no way means that the universe is God, or vice verse, again in terms of physicality. No, the universe is just one, singular instance of a Divine thought within the infinite knowledge of Allah.

    For example, if you were to create a character within your own mind, this doesn’t mean that the idea of the being that you created really exists in an absolute sense. However, it does have a relative existence, based on your willingness to keep the idea going.

    Allah then is not some sort of personality that rewards and punishes humans based on their respective acts, at least literally speaking. Submission to Allah (Islam) is simply being in tune to the Reality of creation, for Allah is the only Reality. It is the extent to which a Muslim (one who acts in accordance to Reality) acts in respect to the realities of the universe on every possible level.
    This sounds like pantheism (wahdatul wujood) with a touch of suggesting or promoting atheism (very typical of our atheist friend, Manifesto) and degrading God to just a reality of uncreated physical laws in place that act mechanically:

    "He is the Eternal, and thus cannot be separated from His creation in terms of physicality, as that would mean you have two different entities at place (God vs the universe)."

    First, who told you the God Muslims worship is physical or has physical components?

    Secondly, the above quoted from your post suggests the universe and its Creator are "one". You speak about the two not being "separate entities". Then you said the universe is not God and God is not the universe. It is true that God is not the universe; but His creation and the universe are not God. But how then do you justify saying the two are not separate entities?

    Islamically, we do not quantify God. He is far above the physical and the eyes cannot grasp Him. But since God is eternal, therefore the universe becomes a separate entity that was not present at a certain point before its creation. The universe isn't eternal. It had a beginning (scientifically) and it will have an end.

    I would like to know whose perspective you typed in the above. By no means is that an Islamic perspective. Whose religious views are you expressing here?
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    That's a modern reading that defies authentic Islamic readings and sources.

    Mohammad is reported to have seen Allah appear as a brown man with curly green hair.

    Allah in Islam literally sits on a throne somewhere in the universe, and has hell and heaven where people there literally watch each other and he replaces their skin when it is burnt out.

    And the sky is a hard ceiling with water above it. And the stars are lamps on that ceiling which he brings down to blast demons (like in Zoroastrianism).

    He is rooted in Zoroastrian and Hindu mythology but his evil counterpart (Satan) is rooted in secondary Judaism / human-written Jewish sources.

    And "No God but Allah" does mean he is a God. Your logic to say it doesn't doesn't make sense. A God doesn't have to be within comprehension.
    Can you present an Islamic source or reference where Prophet Muhammad is reported to have "seen Allah as a brown man with curly green hair"?

    There is no where in Islam where it is believed Muhammad (sa) saw Allah.

    You should seek medical care. You're typing lots of hallucinations and khuza3balat.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Part I.

    There seems to be a lot of ignorance and confusion among the general peoples (even among Muslims) in respect to the nature of Allah. Most view Him as a god, whether it be the same Abrahamic god that’s worshipped by Christians or Jews; or a completely different idea of a god as invented by the Arabs.

    Neither opinion is factual. Why? Because Allah is not a god to begin with. La ilaha il Allah means “there is no god but Allah.” Now, let’s pause for a moment and consider the word ‘god.’ Anything in this universe can be essentially worshipped as a god- mountains; vaginas (it’s been done); humans- yes, anything that the mind can conceive of can be worshipped as a god. Yet Allah is beyond human comprehension.

    It is clear-cut in Islam that Allah is One. He is the Eternal, and thus cannot be separated from His creation in terms of physicality, as that would mean you have two different entities at place (God vs the universe). However, this in no way means that the universe is God, or vice verse, again in terms of physicality. No, the universe is just one, singular instance of a Divine thought within the infinite knowledge of Allah.

    For example, if you were to create a character within your own mind, this doesn’t mean that the idea of the being that you created really exists in an absolute sense. However, it does have a relative existence, based on your willingness to keep the idea going.

    Allah then is not some sort of personality that rewards and punishes humans based on their respective acts, at least literally speaking. Submission to Allah (Islam) is simply being in tune to the Reality of creation, for Allah is the only Reality. It is the extent to which a Muslim (one who acts in accordance to Reality) acts in respect to the realities of the universe on every possible level.
    even among muslims? interesting choice of words.

    is this is your personal interpretation? if so why are you assuming the authority to present your perspective as an exclusive truth? if however this is not your personal perspective, provide your sources.

    the reality however is that you are exhibiting a classical case of disenchantment with the islamic scripture. you are simply romanticizing, for the simple reality that the majority - if not the totality - of the islamic authoritative sources go against your perspective. consequently, you are singing a foreign tune within that group that no longer presents a coherent perception of the divine, however you do not dare break free from your niche of comfort.

    this is not a bad thing however, it is a necessary step to press forward some very needed reforms, which could impose an interpretation that is more in tune with the current state of the human intellect rather than with the rigid state of the traditional institutions many of which are still stuck in time.
    -------
    now all of that aside, did you run your research about the perception of the divine across the ages? how it evolved within each group or community? and consequently, does what you are trying to describe constitute a regression from already established notions elsewhere or does it constitute a step forward? etc.. so in other words, do your research..
     
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    Saqar18

    Saqar18

    New Member
    Dom
    Can you present an Islamic source or reference where Prophet Muhammad is reported to have "seen Allah as a brown man with curly green hair"?

    There is no where in Islam where it is believed Muhammad (sa) saw Allah.

    You should seek medical care. You're typing lots of hallucinations and khuza3balat.
    Dont do it man, hes gonna bring the heat. He will bite back. Im even waiting for his reply
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    This sounds like pantheism (wahdatul wujood) with a touch of suggesting or promoting atheism (very typical of our atheist friend, Manifesto) and degrading God to just a reality of uncreated physical laws in place that act mechanically:
    Dude, give it a rest already. You need to think that I’m not a real person because you are intellectually intimidated by me- along with the rest of the insecure posters on this forum.

    First, who told you the God Muslims worship is physical or has physical components?
    Strawman, as I never argued that.

    Secondly, the above quoted from your post suggests the universe and its Creator are "one".
    And as I clearly stated in my OP, that is certainly not the case.

    You speak about the two not being "separate entities". Then you said the universe is not God and God is not the universe. It is true that God is not the universe; but His creation and the universe are not God. But how then do you justify saying the two are not separate entities?
    I was speaking in terms of physicality, as it makes no sense for an Eternal being to exist along another separate existence. However, we justify our approach because we (along with Muslim theologians) argue that the universe and creation exist within the infinite knowledge of Allah.

    Creation cannot be “outside” Allah, because Allah is the only Reality, the only real existence.

    Islamically, we do not quantify God. He is far above the physical and the eyes cannot grasp Him. But since God is eternal, therefore the universe becomes a separate entity that was not present at a certain point before its creation. The universe isn't eternal. It had a beginning (scientifically) and it will have an end.
    Of course the universe isn’t eternal, because the universe doesn’t even exist (again, in an absolutist sense). If Allah pleases, He can easily “forget” about this universe and create a whole new one. In his Infinite and Eternal knowledge, this is very easy for him. Again, the universe is just one instantaneous Divine thought within the Eternal knowledge of Allah.

    I would like to know whose perspective you typed in the above. By no means is that an Islamic perspective. Whose religious views are you expressing here?
    Nonsense, your views of Islam have simply been corrupted by modern society’s perspective of “what god is.” You have too much ego to perceive Reality as it is. As the Prophet said:

    “Islam began as something strange and it will revert to being strange as it once began, so give glad tidings to the strangers.”
     
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    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    I responded to the OP and answered the title.
    Your modern reading is not found among any old Islamic scholar in its basic premises. And it defies pages and pages of Islam.
    To say Allah is not God. And defend mentalism (the world is just his thought), etc etc.
    Are you telling me that “la ilaha il Allah” defies Islam? Allah cannot be a god because Allah is UNLIKE anything in creation (see Surah Al-Ahad). And anything in creation can be worshipped as a god, but Allah is the most High.

    As for “defending mentalist” (whatever that means); no, I’m simply advancing a perspective that doesn’t allow the secular forces of today to poke holes in the Absolute nature of Allah. Because once you argue that Allah is another god like all the other gods invented by man (as most Muslims do), the opposing side can easily compromise your general perspective of Divinity and it’s consequent spiritual practices.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    provide your sources.
    Sources for what? Pick whatever view that is in the OP, and we will provide proof from the Qur’an and Hadiths. The rest of your post is you assuming I got this all out of my ass, but until you prove that that is the case, it’s all mere conjecture on your part.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Sources for what? Pick whatever view that is in the OP, and we will provide proof from the Qur’an and Hadiths. The rest of your post is you assuming I got this all out of my ass, but until you prove that that is the case, it’s all mere conjecture on your part.
    now that is conjecture. but regardless. provide your sources for the following as a start:
    "Allah then is not some sort of personality that rewards and punishes humans based on their respective acts, at least literally speaking. Submission to Allah (Islam) is simply being in tune to the Reality of creation, for Allah is the only Reality. It is the extent to which a Muslim (one who acts in accordance to Reality) acts in respect to the realities of the universe on every possible level."​

    but that is still not the elephant in the room. i will address it after we discuss your sources, validate them, and compare them with what islamic authorities and other sources say about the subject.

    PS: do not provide a source that says allah is not a person, rather provide the ones that underline the idea as a whole.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Dude, give it a rest already. You need to think that I’m not a real person because you are intellectually intimidated by me- along with the rest of the insecure posters on this forum.



    Strawman, as I never argued that.



    And as I clearly stated in my OP, that is certainly not the case.



    I was speaking in terms of physicality, as it makes no sense for an Eternal being to exist along another separate existence. However, we justify our approach because we (along with Muslim theologians) argue that the universe and creation exist within the infinite knowledge of Allah.

    Creation cannot be “outside” Allah, because Allah is the only Reality, the only real existence.



    Of course the universe isn’t eternal, because the universe doesn’t even exist (again, in an absolutist sense). If Allah pleases, He can easily “forget” about this universe and create a whole new one. In his Infinite and Eternal knowledge, this is very easy for him. Again, the universe is just one instantaneous Divine thought within the Eternal knowledge of Allah.



    Nonsense, your views of Islam have simply been corrupted by modern society’s perspective of “what god is.” You have too much ego to perceive Reality as it is. As the Prophet said:

    “Islam began as something strange and it will revert to being strange as it once began, so give glad tidings to the strangers.”
    Beating around the bush with zero references/sources for your claims. Are you still speaking in the name of Islam? Can you back your claims with references?
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    Beating around the bush with zero references/sources for your claims. Are you still speaking in the name of Islam? Can you back your claims with references?
    Which claims are you referring to?
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    New Member
    now that is conjecture. but regardless. provide your sources for the following as a start:

    "Allah then is not some sort of personality that rewards and punishes humans based on their respective acts, at least literally speaking. Submission to Allah (Islam) is simply being in tune to the Reality of creation, for Allah is the only Reality. It is the extent to which a Muslim (one who acts in accordance to Reality) acts in respect to the realities of the universe on every possible level."
    This view is a natural corollary of the idea that creation is a reflection of the Oneness of Allah. Since Allah, as referred to by the Qur’an is “The Absolute,” there cannot be a separate existence that is not relative to Him, and Him alone. Indeed, as the Qur’an says, He is the First, and He is the Last.

    Any idea or action that sprouts from a dualistic and material source is considered not being in submission to Allah, or “The Reality” (another name of Allah found in the Qur’an). This is because it’s all coming from a position of “I” which all started when Adam and Eve at the fruit in the garden.

    “I” or “ego” is not a reality. To think that there is an “I” to begin with is pride itself, for the only Real existence is Allah. As the Qur’an says, Allah is the only Truth. Anything else comes from a position of thinking in terms of the self that has been conditioned by humanity for eons.

    When a Muslims bows his head to Allah, it is a reflection of the fact that Allah is the only Reality. It’s got nothing to do with “pleasing” a personality or doing it out of some sort of ego-driven fear. This is why prayer is a powerful weapon, and the only reason many say it doesn’t work is because they’re doing it wrong.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    This view is a natural corollary of the idea that creation is a reflection of the Oneness of Allah. Since Allah, as referred to by the Qur’an is “The Absolute,” there cannot be a separate existence that is not relative to Him, and Him alone. Indeed, as the Qur’an says, He is the First, and He is the Last.

    Any idea or action that sprouts from a dualistic and material source is considered not being in submission to Allah, or “The Reality” (another name of Allah found in the Qur’an). This is because it’s all coming from a position of “I” which all started when Adam and Eve at the fruit in the garden.

    “I” or “ego” is not a reality. To think that there is an “I” to begin with is pride itself, for the only Real existence is Allah. As the Qur’an says, Allah is the only Truth. Anything else comes from a position of thinking in terms of the self that has been conditioned by humanity for eons.

    When a Muslims bows his head to Allah, it is a reflection of the fact that Allah is the only Reality. It’s got nothing to do with “pleasing” a personality or doing it out of some sort of ego-driven fear. This is why prayer is a powerful weapon, and the only reason many say it doesn’t work is because they’re doing it wrong.
    still no sources. in the absence of sources i will have to say that this is simply your own opinion. which is a good one in many aspects if you ask me. trying to pass it as the islamic perspective is however simply incorrect. for instance, when muslims around the world bow their heads to allah they do so as a ritual of worship, negotiated down from 50 to 5 by the prophet's visit to Allah in paradise, mostly in a mechanical fashion at the strike of some clock. but let's not get into that.

    regardless, on a personal level and despite exhibiting some confusion there is a glimpse of a better path in your perception hopefully it will lead you to more realizations. time brings many answers when people are genuinely seeking them.
     
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