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Who/what is Allah?

Rafidi

Legendary Member
still no sources. in the absence of sources i will have to say that this is simply your own opinion. which is a good one in many aspects if you ask me. trying to pass it as the islamic perspective is however simply incorrect. for instance, when muslims around the world bow their heads to allah they do so as a ritual of worship, negotiated down from 50 to 5 by the prophet's visit to Allah in paradise, mostly in a mechanical fashion at the strike of some clock. but let's not get into that.

regardless, on a personal level and despite exhibiting some confusion there is a glimpse of a better path in your perception hopefully it will lead you to more realizations. time brings many answers when people are genuinely seeking them.

How many times do Christians pray "at the strike of the holy spirit"?

Dont let me start with you. Don't you ever forget you're a trinitarian. That's enough said.
 

Rafidi

Legendary Member
Which claims are you referring to?

You made a number of them. You can back these up:

- "Allah is not a god to begin with". The Quran says He is the only "God" (Ilah) and He is Al-Lah (The One and Only God).

- "The universe doesn't exist". That it is just a thought. The Quran says the universe was made.

-"Allah cannot be separate from His creation... Which would mean separate entities". The Quran says Allah was before the universe.

So on what scripture are you basing your claims?
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
How many times do Christians pray "at the strike of the holy spirit"?
1- you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
Dont let me start with you.
2- not a problem, start all you want, as long as you are arguing facts rather than things you yourself invent.
Don't you ever forget you're a trinitarian. That's enough said.
this combines both 1 and 2.

you obviously still argue out of spite, you should know by now i am not interested in such exchanges.
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
Are you telling me that “la ilaha il Allah” defies Islam? Allah cannot be a god because Allah is UNLIKE anything in creation (see Surah Al-Ahad). And anything in creation can be worshipped as a god, but Allah is the most High.

As for “defending mentalist” (whatever that means); no, I’m simply advancing a perspective that doesn’t allow the secular forces of today to poke holes in the Absolute nature of Allah. Because once you argue that Allah is another god like all the other gods invented by man (as most Muslims do), the opposing side can easily compromise your general perspective of Divinity and it’s consequent spiritual practices.

I don't think you know how to read or understand Arabic. I quoted you the Qur'an saying "No God but Him".
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
Can you present an Islamic source or reference where Prophet Muhammad is reported to have "seen Allah as a brown man with curly green hair"?

There is no where in Islam where it is believed Muhammad (sa) saw Allah.

You should seek medical care. You're typing lots of hallucinations and khuza3balat.

First of all, as a Twelver Zoroastrian and follower of Zoroastrian Magick, this matter relating to Islam doesn't really concern you. But since you asked.


الهيثمي - معجم الزوائد - كتاب التعبير - باب فيما رآه النبي (ص) في المنام
الجزء : ( 7 ) - رقم الحديث : ( 179 )​
11745 - وعن أم الطفيل امرأة أبي بن كعب ، قال : سمعت رسول الله (ص) يقول : رأيت ربي في المنام في صورة شاب موفر في خضر عليه نعلان من ذهب على وجهه فراش من ذهب ، قال : الحديث رواه الطبراني ، وقال ابن حبان : إنه حديث منكر لأن عمارة بن عامر ابن حزم الأنصاري لم يسمع من أم الطفيل ، ذكره في ترجمة عمارة في الثقات.










أبو يعلى ابن الفراء - ابطال التأويلات لأخبار الصفات - فصل ثان يتعلق بليلة الإسراء
الجزء : ( 1 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 136 )​


127 - وناه : أبو محمد الحسن بن محمد ، في جملة أخبار الصفات ، نا : يوسف بن عمر ، قال : نا : إسحاق بن ابراهيم بن الحسن بن داود العطار ، قال : نا : أبو الفضل محمد بن أبي هارون الوراق ، قال : نا : أحمد بن محمد بن يحيى بن سعيد القطان ، قال : نا : أسود بن عامر ، قال : نا : حماد بن سلمة ، عن قتادة ، عن عكرمة ، عن ابن عباس ، قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : رأيت ربي جعدا أمرد عليه حلة خضراء.


أبو يعلى ابن الفراء - طبقات الحنابلة - الطبقة الثانية
باب الحاء من الطبقة الثانية - الحسين بن عبد الله بن أحمد أبو علي الخرقي
الجزء : ( 2 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 45 / 46 )​

[ النص طويل لذا استقطع منه موضع الشاهد ]​

- حدثنا : أبو بكر المروذي ، قال : قرأت على أبي عبد الله أحمد بن حنبل ، حدثكم : شاذان ، حدثنا : حماد بن سلمة ، عن قتادة ، عن عكرمة ، عن ابن عباس ، قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : رأيت ربي عز وجل شاب أمرد جعد قطط عليه حلة خضراء ، قال المروذي : قلت لأبي عبد الله : أنهم يقولون ما رواه الا شاذان فغضب ، وقال : من قال هذا ....


البيهقي - الأسماء والصفات
باب ما جاء في قول الله عز وجل : ثم دنا فتدلى فكان قاب قوسين أو أدنى ( النجم : 8 - 9 )
الجزء : ( 2 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 363 )
938 - كما أخبرنا : أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد الماليني ، أنا : أبو أحمد بن عدي الحافظ ، ثنا : الحسن بن علي بن عاصم ، ثنا : إبراهيم بن أبي سويد الذراع ، ثنا : حماد بن سلمة ، ح وأخبرنا : أبو سعد الماليني ، أنا : أبو أحمد بن عدي الحافظ ، أخبرني : الحسن بن سفيان ، ثنا : محمد بن رافع ، ثنا : أسود بن عامر ، ثنا : حماد بن سلمة ، عن قتادة ، عن عكرمة ، عن ابن عباس (ر) قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : رأيت ربي جعدا أمرد عليه حلة خضراء ، قال : وأخبرنا : أبو أحمد ، ثنا : ابن أبي سفيان الموصلي ، وابن شهريار ، قالا : ثنا : محمد بن رزق الله بن موسى ، ثنا : الأسود بن عامر ، فذكره بإسناده الا أنه قال : في صورة شاب أمرد جعد ، قال : وزاد علي بن شهريار : عليه حلة خضراء ، ورواه النضر بن سلمة ، عن الأسود بن عامر بإسناده : أن محمدا (ص) رأى ربه في صورة شاب أمرد ، دونه ستر من لؤلؤ قدميه ـ أو قال رجليه في خضرة.


الهيثمي - معجم الزوائد - كتاب التعبير - باب فيما رآه النبي (ص) في المنام
الجزء : ( 7 ) - رقم الحديث : ( 178 )​

11738 - وعن عبد الرحمن بن عائش ، عن بعض أصحاب النبي (ص) : أن رسول الله (ص) خرج عليهم ذات غداة وهو طيب النفس مشرق الوجه - أو مسفر الوجه - فقلنا ‏:‏ يا رسول الله : إنا نراك مسفر الوجه أو مشرق الوجه‏ ،‏ فقال : ‏‏ما يمنعني وأتاني ربي الليلة في أحسن صورة ، فقال : يا محمد ، فقلت ‏:‏ لبيك ربي وسعديك ، قال : فيم يختصم الملأ الأعلى‏ ،‏ قلت ‏:‏ لا أدري أي رب‏ ،‏ قال : ذاك مرتين أو ثلاثا ، قال : فوضع كفيه بين كتفي فوجدت بردها بين ثديي ، حتى تجلى لي ما في السماوات وما في الأرض‏‏‏ ، ثم تلا هذه الآية ‏:‏ ‏‏‏وكذلك نري إبراهيم ملكوت السماوات والأرض‏ ( الأنعام : 75 ) الآية‏ ،‏ ‏‏‏ثم‏ قال : يا محمد فيم يختصم الملأ الأعلى ‏،‏ قلت ‏:‏ في الكفارات ، قال : وما الكفارات ‏،‏ قلت‏ :‏ المشي على الأقدام ‏‏إلى الجماعات ‏والجلوس في المسجد خلاف الصلوات وابلاغ الوضوء في المكاره ، فمن فعل ذلك عاش بخير ومات بخير وكان من خطيئته كيوم ولدته أمه‏ ، ومن الدرجات طيب الكلام وبذل السلام واطعام الطعام والصلاة بالليل والناس نيام‏ ، وقال : يا محمد إذا صليت ، فقل ‏:‏ اللهم إني أسألك الطيبات وترك المنكرات وحب المساكين وأن تتوب علي وإذا أردت في الناس فتنة فتوفني غير مفتون‏‏‏ ، رواه أحمد ورجاله ثقات‏.‏​
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
The sources I quoted above (a few books out of hundreds) indicate Allah used to appear to Mohammad in his dreams in the image of a young brown man "شاب أمرد " with curly hair having a green dye "جعد قطط عليه حلة خضراء " and that God had shoulders " فوضع كفيه بين كتفي" and pearlescent feet (لؤلؤ قدميه ).. .
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
More on what I said earlier...

The Kaaba itself is a Hindu temple (with a lot of archealogical aspects similar to Hindu temples). But the main thing about it is that it depicts Shiva's genitalia (both genitals) as Hindus do.




Prophet Abraham is a made up figure (like most of the prophets of Judaism). But even if we follow the Jewish timeline, there was no built Meccah at his time for him to build the Kaaba. Abraham himself is from Sumerian Abram (mentioned in the Ebla tablets). And goes back to Brahma. Jews stole from Babloynians and Sumerians, who are tied with Hinduism and the Indus Valley. So it's a multi-chain of influence and back amd forth because of Trade.

 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
Oh and I forgot to mention that the Hadith I mentioned is considered "authentic" by many Sunni Islamic scholars. But somehow, your average Sunni doesn't know of it. Including authenticity from the "Demi-God" Sheikh Ibn Tammiyah.


((رأيت ربي في صورة شاب أمرد جعد عليه حلة خضراء))

وهذا الحديث من هذا الطريق صححه جمعٌ من أهل العلم، منهم:
الإمام أحمد (المنتخب من علل الخلال: ص282، وإبطال التأويلات لأبي يعلى 1/139)
وأبو زرعة الرازي (إبطال التأويلات لأبي يعلى 1/144)
والطبراني (إبطال التأويلات لأبي يعلى 1/143)
وأبو الحسن بن بشار (إبطال التأويلات 1/ 142، 143، 222)
وأبو يعلى في (إبطال التأويلات 1/ 141، 142، 143)
وابن صدقة (إبطال التأويلات 1/144) (تلبيس الجهمية 7 /225 )
وابن تيمية في (بيان تلبيس الجهمية 7/290، 356) (طبعة مجمع الملك فهد لطباعة المصحف الشريف- 1426هـ)
 
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Saqar18

New Member
First of all, as a Twelver Zoroastrian and follower of Zoroastrian Magick, this matter relating to Islam doesn't really concern you. But since you asked.


الهيثمي - معجم الزوائد - كتاب التعبير - باب فيما رآه النبي (ص) في المنام
الجزء : ( 7 ) - رقم الحديث : ( 179 )​
11745 - وعن أم الطفيل امرأة أبي بن كعب ، قال : سمعت رسول الله (ص) يقول : رأيت ربي في المنام في صورة شاب موفر في خضر عليه نعلان من ذهب على وجهه فراش من ذهب ، قال : الحديث رواه الطبراني ، وقال ابن حبان : إنه حديث منكر لأن عمارة بن عامر ابن حزم الأنصاري لم يسمع من أم الطفيل ، ذكره في ترجمة عمارة في الثقات.










أبو يعلى ابن الفراء - ابطال التأويلات لأخبار الصفات - فصل ثان يتعلق بليلة الإسراء
الجزء : ( 1 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 136 )​


127 - وناه : أبو محمد الحسن بن محمد ، في جملة أخبار الصفات ، نا : يوسف بن عمر ، قال : نا : إسحاق بن ابراهيم بن الحسن بن داود العطار ، قال : نا : أبو الفضل محمد بن أبي هارون الوراق ، قال : نا : أحمد بن محمد بن يحيى بن سعيد القطان ، قال : نا : أسود بن عامر ، قال : نا : حماد بن سلمة ، عن قتادة ، عن عكرمة ، عن ابن عباس ، قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : رأيت ربي جعدا أمرد عليه حلة خضراء.


أبو يعلى ابن الفراء - طبقات الحنابلة - الطبقة الثانية
باب الحاء من الطبقة الثانية - الحسين بن عبد الله بن أحمد أبو علي الخرقي
الجزء : ( 2 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 45 / 46 )​

[ النص طويل لذا استقطع منه موضع الشاهد ]​

- حدثنا : أبو بكر المروذي ، قال : قرأت على أبي عبد الله أحمد بن حنبل ، حدثكم : شاذان ، حدثنا : حماد بن سلمة ، عن قتادة ، عن عكرمة ، عن ابن عباس ، قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : رأيت ربي عز وجل شاب أمرد جعد قطط عليه حلة خضراء ، قال المروذي : قلت لأبي عبد الله : أنهم يقولون ما رواه الا شاذان فغضب ، وقال : من قال هذا ....


البيهقي - الأسماء والصفات
باب ما جاء في قول الله عز وجل : ثم دنا فتدلى فكان قاب قوسين أو أدنى ( النجم : 8 - 9 )
الجزء : ( 2 ) - رقم الصفحة : ( 363 )
938 - كما أخبرنا : أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد الماليني ، أنا : أبو أحمد بن عدي الحافظ ، ثنا : الحسن بن علي بن عاصم ، ثنا : إبراهيم بن أبي سويد الذراع ، ثنا : حماد بن سلمة ، ح وأخبرنا : أبو سعد الماليني ، أنا : أبو أحمد بن عدي الحافظ ، أخبرني : الحسن بن سفيان ، ثنا : محمد بن رافع ، ثنا : أسود بن عامر ، ثنا : حماد بن سلمة ، عن قتادة ، عن عكرمة ، عن ابن عباس (ر) قال : قال رسول الله (ص) : رأيت ربي جعدا أمرد عليه حلة خضراء ، قال : وأخبرنا : أبو أحمد ، ثنا : ابن أبي سفيان الموصلي ، وابن شهريار ، قالا : ثنا : محمد بن رزق الله بن موسى ، ثنا : الأسود بن عامر ، فذكره بإسناده الا أنه قال : في صورة شاب أمرد جعد ، قال : وزاد علي بن شهريار : عليه حلة خضراء ، ورواه النضر بن سلمة ، عن الأسود بن عامر بإسناده : أن محمدا (ص) رأى ربه في صورة شاب أمرد ، دونه ستر من لؤلؤ قدميه ـ أو قال رجليه في خضرة.


Al-Haythami - Glossary of Increases - Book of Expression - Chapter on what the Prophet (PBUH) saw in a dream
Part: (7) - Hadith number: (178)​

11738 - On the authority of Abd al-Rahman bin Aish, on the authority of some of the Companions of the Prophet (PBUH): The Messenger of God (PBUH) came out to them the next day and he was kind-hearted, bright-faced - or a yellow-faced man - so we said: O Messenger of God: We see you as a yellow-faced or bright face, he said: what prevents me and my Lord came to me tonight in the best form , he said: O Muhammad, I said to my Lord and Beck Saadak, said: Wim Echtsam top public, I said: I do not know any employer, He said: That is two or three times. He said: He put his palms between my shoulders and found their cold between my breastsSo that what was revealed in the heavens and what was on the earth was revealed to me, then this verse was read: Likewise, we see Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the earth (cattle: 75) the verse, then he said: O Muhammad The highest authority is specialized, I said: In the expiation, he said: What are the expiation, I said: Walk on foot to the congregations and sit in the mosque other than prayers and inform ablution in the misfortune, whoever did that lived well and died fine and was From his sin as a day his mother gave birth to him, and from the grades are good words and he made peace and food and prayer at night and people are asleep, and he said: Oh Muhammad if you pray, then say: Oh God, I ask you good things and leave evil T love the poor and to repent and if you want people in strife Vtuffine is intrigued, Narrated by Ahmad and his men are trustworthy.​
[/ QUOTE]
Who the in the blue hell are you myso?
 

NewLeb

Member
- "Allah is not a god to begin with". The Quran says He is the only "God" (Ilah) and He is Al-Lah (The One and Only God).

Sure, and I never stated otherwise. I argued that Allah is not “a god,” as opposed to your straw-man that I said that Allah is not “The God.” The point is that “a god” can be anything from creation. For example, Christians worship a god, because they took a form of creation (Jesus) as a god. But Allah is The Truth, The Reality, The Only One.

Muslims don’t “worship” like Christians or Hindus. Muslims are slaves who serve Allah. Islam itself means submission, and Muslims submit to The Reality.

- "The universe doesn't exist". That it is just a thought. The Quran says the universe was made.

The universe certainly does not exist in an absolute sense. Humans and everything else are a relative existence. Our entire existence hinges upon Allah’s Divine Mercy in keeping this whole show running. As the Qur’an says, absolutely NOTHING in creation happens without His Will.

-"Allah cannot be separate from His creation... Which would mean separate entities". The Quran says Allah was before the universe.

Of course Allah was before the universe! Allah is as Allah always was, and will be as He always was, Glorious is He. This is why he is the Eternal One.

He may have created the universe, but in what sense? Creation can only be understood from a position where one is in constant referral to the Divine Names of Allah. Since Allah is most Knowledgeable, we know that we exist within His Infinite Knowledge.

This is why, as the Qur’an repeatedly says, Allah encompasses everything, as He is The Encompasser.

284385F6-5187-4F34-864B-5DBF3FCB3E45.jpeg



So on what scripture are you basing your claims?

That recited by Allah’s final Prophet on earth, Muhammad.
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
You’re a liar. The names of Allah are sources whether you like it or not.
and we are back to the same classical problem usually faced when discussing matters of belief with people who possess more zeal and anger than faith. you cannot discuss divine matters with such an attitude, this is not a battlefield, this is an intellectual a discussion. you are doing yourself a disservice my friend, trust me, you do not want to be that guy.

i do not think you understood what a source is. the names of allah are not a valid source to pass your own personal interpretation as a generally accepted one. what you should be presenting is a matching interpretation of the 99 names of allah from an official islamic source with a widely accepted authority, and which supports your perspective.

this is pretty discouraging though, it is not starting well for you. but if you behave for a while, i will tell you later why @Lebmonage got all worked up when he read your initial post.
 
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NewLeb

Member
and we are back to the same classical problem usually faced when discussing matters of belief with people who possess more zeal and anger than faith. you cannot discuss divine matters with such an attitude, this is not a battlefield, this is an intellectual a discussion. you are doing yourself a disservice my friend, trust me, you do not want to be that guy.

i do not think you understood what a source is. the names of allah are not a valid source to pass your own personal interpretation as a generally accepted one. what you should be presenting is a matching interpretation of the 99 names of allah from an official islamic source with a widely accepted authority, and which supports your perspective.

this is pretty discouraging though, it is not starting well for you. but if you behave for a while, i will tell you later why @Lebmonage got all worked up when he read your initial post.

This post oozes of self-righteousness, which is typical among your lot. There is no attitude; it’s simply a FACT that you are feigning ignorance. We are discussing the nature of Allah, and Allah is known by is His Divine Names. This is self-evident knowledge, yet you ask for proof....
 

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
This post oozes of self-righteousness, which is typical among your lot. There is no attitude; it’s simply a FACT that you are feigning ignorance. We are discussing the nature of Allah, and Allah is known by is His Divine Names. This is self-evident knowledge, yet you ask for proof....
ok. so in other words that are no sources. you are simply doing a personal projection from the names of allah. thank you.
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
Which “allah?” Are there really other “allahs” found among scriptures other than the Qur’an?

There actually is two different Gods in the Qur'an. Allah and Rahman. But that's another topic.

Your post wasn't clear to anyone on that you meant he was "The God" and not "A God". But that's nothing new, found in Christianity and other faiths.
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
Sure, and I never stated otherwise. I argued that Allah is not “a god,” as opposed to your straw-man that I said that Allah is not “The God.” The point is that “a god” can be anything from creation. For example, Christians worship a god, because they took a form of creation (Jesus) as a god. But Allah is The Truth, The Reality, The Only One.

Uhm no. Christians worship "The One" and "The Reality" too. Muslims didn't invent anything here, Haboub.
The Christian trinity is explained in a monotheistic sense. God is not limited to Jesus. God is more of a Stereo with three functions. But he is one stereo. The Only One.
 

Myso

Active Member
Orange Room Supporter
It's fair to say that @NewLeb is a Muslim Edgelord. He pretends he's onto something new. But he's really clueless as to what he is arguing. And unable to comprehend that what he's saying is false in many places, and in others cherry-picking. The Qur'an has a model of God that doesn't really have anything new. I'm done arguing here. This is a waste of time.
 
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