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Who/what is Allah?

Dark Angel

Dark Angel

Legendary Member
Of course it’s a gift. However, a reliance on intellectual faculties can prove detrimental to faith. The truly faithful don’t need to use their rationality in knowing Truth, because they know that whatever their mind conceives of, will be totally encompassed by Reality itself either way.
that is the case when there is a stark contradiction between reality and what you hold to be true. this schism makes for an argument against the Divine, rather than in its favor.

to each person his or her path to reach the Divine, rationality is one of those paths, some people reach God through the exercising of their intellect. reality however is that for truth and faith no matter how small the beginning is, they are bound to grow with each other, hence the parable of the mustard seed, which grows into a large tree that gives shelter to many. the same goes for truth, if you start from a little truth, it is bound to grow and mature until it blossoms, and in fact this is how science evolved from a couple of postulates taken on faith.

truth however cleans itself up as it grows, whatever proves to be false should be dropped, and whatever proves to be true should be embraced, and our task is to always put our knowledge to the test, whatever fails that test is not true to begin with and is not worth holding on to. which brings us to the parable of the Kingdom of heaven and the pearl trader, whenever you uncover a bigger and a better truth embrace it and let go of false notions.
Mat 13:
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it."

This has nothing to do with Daesh. Islamic terrorism/fundamentalism are themselves products of an over-reliance on intellect, and reflect an ego-based conception of reality.
yes of course, reliance on intellect is the most stunning characteristic and trademarks of da3esh.

Complete ignorance. You don’t have books on Shariah because Jesus to Christians was not a figure who dealt with the wide-ranging affairs of human conduct (on all levels), but merely a spiritual mentor who educated his followers on specific moralistic concepts.

This is why smug and arrogant Christians like yourself are always eager to point out how Jesus did not engage in violence or politics, but in reality, that wasn’t part of his modus operandi to begin with (unlike Moses and Muhammad)!
yes of course, you obviously know much better why Christ freed us from the Law. in fact i have rarely to meet someone on your side of this debate who does not now more than Christ, the disciples, the prophets, the popes and the theologians combined. it seems that knowledge runs so deep in your camp that this is a very normal occurrence.

it is impressive though how strong that inferiority complex eating you up seems to be. now matter how much you attempt to restrain it, it is bound to peek its head up sooner or later. i hope you will be cured soon.

There’s nothing of much value to steal from Christianity, so I’m not sure where you came up with such an assertion.
and this is in reality is your motivation for this whole thread, despite the fact that most of what you have said about allah is stolen straight from Christian theology. this is why you cannot validate with islamic references.
this goes to show that there isn't much truth in you, favoring treachery and deceit over truth, even when discussing the notion of God and Truth for that matter, which is quite baffling if you ask me. you're not even true to the islamic doctrine and the islamic beliefs, as has been pointed out by other members.

and with that, my job here is done.. troll away.
 
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  • eile

    eile

    Well-Known Member
    No, I’m not doing that. I’m simply putting forth the assertion that there is Reality as it is, and as it always will be, and then there are human notions of reality that make absolutely no difference in the end in terms of Truth. It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks, because creation is a relative existence, and Truth will always be as it always has been, independent of whatever we may think about it.

    We can only know Truth by knowing our original selves; not by relying on arguments written a thousand years ago by specific people interpreting particular human events.



    The problem with using one’s intelligence to know Truth is that the method itself is self-defeating. Why? Because it stems from the idea that Truth is known through reason, as opposed to being experienced in the moment, for everything in reality is a reflection of Truth.

    All human notions of Truth will always stem from a dualistic mindset and ego. Truth simply is, yes, it’s really that simply. However, human pride necessitates that we interpret it according to our rational faculties and whims, ergo developing all sorts of theories and mental jargon that invariably get in the way of True Reality.

    there's an intrinsic correspondence between truth and reality. statements or things are true or false depending on how they relate to reality. “to say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”. statements that describe reality as it is are true; those that do not are false. and because reality is singular and shared by all, this truth is absolute/objective/universal. and while reality is reality irrespective of us processing it, spelling it out or acknowledging it, it is knowable and ascertainable or validated through reason. the problem is that you are denying this and contradicting yourself in the very act of you denying it, or in the very act of you claiming anything at all about reality to start with. there's no escaping it. in the very definition of reality or in the very act of thinking about it and defining it, the existence of falsehood (or what is held as reality and is in fact not reality) is inherently assumed as a possibility

    it is true that absolute/objective/universal truth is something that is true at all times and in all places, true no matter the circumstances. it is absolutely true that there are no round squares, that there are also no square circles, that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. these are all truths, objective/universal/absolute; discovered not invented, true independently of us. it doesn't matter if you write 2+2=4 (base 10) or if you write 10+10=100 (base 2) or if you write II + II = IV; in all these cases the idea (the truth) expressed is the same and transcendent. the truth that is 2+2=4 is unchanging (unaffected), that is irrespective of how we deal with it or represent it (if at all) using material symbolism. it is true with or without us reasoning and conveying it. however, this is one simple truth example that is so simple that it is intuitive, self-evident, and cannot therefore honestly be denied by anyone. reality however is a little more complex. the world can seem chaotic and full of uncertainty and mystery, full of correct signs, as well as full of false signs, actually it is a sea of conflicting voices and opinions (and feelings) oftentimes within the single self, it can therefore be hard (and is very necessary) to chart a course and discern reality or truth from falsehood. reason is thus at the service of that task, of discerning and conveying reality vs falsehood (or vs non-reality that is presented as reality), lest we fall prey to deceit and falsehood and drag ourselves and others on an erroneous path towards a deadly cliff. that follows from the fact that you are not God (or not Reality as you want to call it), which is a premise you hold, and from which further follows that you can be (self)deceived, that what you might be (thinking) feeling of as God (or Reality) could possibly not in fact be truly God (or Reality), but a false one. hence human's intrinsic need for reason
     
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    eile

    eile

    Well-Known Member
    We can only know Truth not by relying on arguments written a thousand years ago by specific people interpreting particular human events.
    cannot help but add as a bonus the following (and because the quote fits well as a textbook example); in responding as such you are committing the genetic fallacy. it is a fallacy of irrelevance whereby a claim is ignored in favor of attacking or championing its source. the fallacy therefore fails to assess the claim on its merit
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    that is the case when there is a stark contradiction between reality and what you hold to be true. this schism makes for an argument against the Divine, rather than in its favor.

    to each person his or her path to reach the Divine, rationality is one of those paths, some people reach God through the exercising of their intellect. reality however is that for truth and faith no matter how small the beginning is, they are bound to grow with each other, hence the parable of the mustard seed, which grows into a large tree that gives shelter to many. the same goes for truth, if you start from a little truth, it is bound to grow and mature until it blossoms, and in fact this is how science evolved from a couple of postulates taken on faith.
    Truth is The Absolute regardless of whichever “path” an individual decides to tread. Indeed, there is no path to begin with, as there is only The Truth. You think that there’s a so-called “path,” but in reality, people are just doing and thinking what they’ve been conditioned to do and think ever since they left their wombs (genetically and behaviorally speaking).

    To know Truth, one must perceive reality from a mindset reflected by an unconditioned state. One must operate on the very premise of Truth, because with Truth, an individual can have whatever he wants. Jesus knew that, which is why he could walk on water. Not because he was The One Lord, but because of his high degree of detachment from ego.

    yes of course, reliance on intellect is the most stunning characteristic and trademarks of da3esh.
    Either way, The Truth remains as it is, regardless if your perception of it is mostly fueled by your ego.

    yes of course, you obviously know much better why Christ freed us from the Law.
    ...which is a nonsensical approach as can be seen from events like the two world wars and crusades; and all the other murderous events in Christian history. Christians do and say in the name of hate, but it’s all okay because they go to church for an hour on Sunday.

    The Truth is reflected in all human forms of existence, including the political. This is a critical concept because The Light must be Perceived in all instances of human existence, for The Light is all there is.

    it is impressive though how strong that inferiority complex eating you up seems to be. now matter how much you attempt to restrain it, it is bound to peek its head up sooner or later. i hope you will be cured soon.
    I don’t believe in an inferiority complex, sonny. I’m only concerned with Truth. Whatever ideas in your head that you choose to create and act upon, that’s on you. Just don’t go projecting your personal conceptions of reality unto me, because I’m just going to reflect them right back at you. ;)


    and this is in reality is your motivation for this whole thread, despite the fact that most of what you have said about allah is stolen straight from Christian theology. this is why you cannot validate with islamic references.
    this goes to show that there isn't much truth in you, favoring treachery and deceit over truth, even when discussing the notion of God and Truth for that matter, which is quite baffling if you ask me. you're not even true to the islamic doctrine and the islamic beliefs, as has been pointed out by other members.

    and with that, my job here is done.. troll away.
    LOL, you are so full of it. It’s only the Christians on this thread who keep bring up their alleged savior, Jesus. I’m only concerned with Truth, you guys with a dead man on a cross.
     
    Dark Angel

    Dark Angel

    Legendary Member
    Truth is The Absolute regardless of whichever “path” an individual decides to tread. Indeed, there is no path to begin with, as there is only The Truth. You think that there’s a so-called “path,” but in reality, people are just doing and thinking what they’ve been conditioned to do and think ever since they left their wombs (genetically and behaviorally speaking).

    To know Truth, one must perceive reality from a mindset reflected by an unconditioned state. One must operate on the very premise of Truth, because with Truth, an individual can have whatever he wants. Jesus knew that, which is why he could walk on water. Not because he was The One Lord, but because of his high degree of detachment from ego.

    Either way, The Truth remains as it is, regardless if your perception of it is mostly fueled by your ego.

    ...which is a nonsensical approach as can be seen from events like the two world wars and crusades; and all the other murderous events in Christian history. Christians do and say in the name of hate, but it’s all okay because they go to church for an hour on Sunday.

    The Truth is reflected in all human forms of existence, including the political. This is a critical concept because The Light must be Perceived in all instances of human existence, for The Light is all there is.

    I don’t believe in an inferiority complex, sonny. I’m only concerned with Truth. Whatever ideas in your head that you choose to create and act upon, that’s on you. Just don’t go projecting your personal conceptions of reality unto me, because I’m just going to reflect them right back at you. ;)

    LOL, you are so full of it. It’s only the Christians on this thread who keep bring up their alleged savior, Jesus. I’m only concerned with Truth, you guys with a dead man on a cross.
    what we have here is even more rigid than isis' ideology.

    truth remains the same whether people understand it or not. but people do not remain the same after they begin understanding it. such realizations change people, and usually for the better. this is why we have people who have dedicated their lives to help others on one extreme and people like isis chopping heads off on the other extreme. if you are not willing to comprehend at least this much and are unable to understand how the perception of truth factors into the making of a better world and a better reality for mankind then you have your lot already cut out for you in life.

    and of course at such a level there is no use going into how meaningless truth is without a consciousness to comprehend it.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    what we have here is even more rigid than isis' ideology.

    truth remains the same whether people understand it or not. but people do not remain the same after they begin understanding it. such realizations change people, and usually for the better. this is why we have people who have dedicated their lives to help others on one extreme and people like isis chopping heads off on the other extreme. if you are not willing to comprehend at least this much and are unable to understand how the perception of truth factors into the making of a better world and a better reality for mankind then you have your lot already cut out for you in life.

    and of course at such a level there is no use going into how meaningless truth is without a consciousness to comprehend it.
    Do you check for ISIS under your bed every night?:banghead::banghead::banghead:

    You want to make the world a better place, but your false identity (ego) is getting in the way of perceiving certain life-phenomena from a completely neutral state, hence your great fear of daesh. ISIS is simply a reflection of your own deep-seated fears and anxieties.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    there's an intrinsic correspondence between truth and reality. statements or things are true or false depending on how they relate to reality. “to say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”. statements that describe reality as it is are true; those that do not are false. and because reality is singular and shared by all, this truth is absolute/objective/universal. and while reality is reality irrespective of us processing it, spelling it out or acknowledging it, it is knowable and ascertainable or validated through reason. the problem is that you are denying this and contradicting yourself in the very act of you denying it, or in the very act of you claiming anything at all about reality to start with. there's no escaping it. in the very definition of reality or in the very act of thinking about it and defining it, the existence of falsehood (or what is held as reality and is in fact not reality) is inherently assumed as a possibility

    it is true that absolute/objective/universal truth is something that is true at all times and in all places, true no matter the circumstances. it is absolutely true that there are no round squares, that there are also no square circles, that the angles of a triangle add up to 180 degrees. these are all truths, objective/universal/absolute; discovered not invented, true independently of us. it doesn't matter if you write 2+2=4 (base 10) or if you write 10+10=100 (base 2) or if you write II + II = IV; in all these cases the idea (the truth) expressed is the same and transcendent. the truth that is 2+2=4 is unchanging (unaffected), that is irrespective of how we deal with it or represent it (if at all) using material symbolism. it is true with or without us reasoning and conveying it. however, this is one simple truth example that is so simple that it is intuitive, self-evident, and cannot therefore honestly be denied by anyone. reality however is a little more complex. the world can seem chaotic and full of uncertainty and mystery, full of correct signs, as well as full of false signs, actually it is a sea of conflicting voices and opinions (and feelings) oftentimes within the single self, it can therefore be hard (and is very necessary) to chart a course and discern reality or truth from falsehood. reason is thus at the service of that task, of discerning and conveying reality vs falsehood (or vs non-reality that is presented as reality), lest we fall prey to deceit and falsehood and drag ourselves and others on an erroneous path towards a deadly cliff. that follows from the fact that you are not God (or not Reality as you want to call it), which is a premise you hold, and from which further follows that you can be (self)deceived, that what you might be (thinking) feeling of as God (or Reality) could possibly not in fact be truly God (or Reality), but a false one. hence human's intrinsic need for reason
    I find it difficult to read lengthy blocks of text. Please explain your major point/s in concise form, otherwise I’m going to have a seizure.
     
    eile

    eile

    Well-Known Member
    I find it difficult to read lengthy blocks of text. Please explain your major point/s in concise form, otherwise I’m going to have a seizure.
    - statements or things are true or false depending on how they relate to reality. statements that describe reality as it is are true, those that do not are false
    - reality is reality (what is true is true) irrespective of us processing or acknowledging it; reality is primarily objective, singular, and universal (shared by all)
    - reality is knowable and ascertainable or validated through reason
    - for in the very definition of reality or in the very act of thinking about reality and defining it, the existence of falsehood (or non-reality) is inherently assumed as a possibility
    - so while some of reality may be intuitive, self-evident (e.g 2+2=4) and cannot therefore honestly or validly be denied by anyone, reality as a whole to us is not as intuitive and self-evident or direct, and is therefore potentially mistakable to us mere humans
    - indeed, the world or our existence (what we hold as reality or part of reality) seems chaotic and full of uncertainty and mystery, full of correct signs as well as false signs. it is a sea of conflicting voices and opinions (and feelings) oftentimes within the single self. indeed, we are not God after all (or Reality with capital r), and therefore we can fall prey to falsehood (to deception and self-deception). hence, while charting a course by discerning reality or truth from falsehood or non-reality can be hard, it deems a necessary task for the purpose of knowing and embracing truth or reality
    - the tool of reason (and our exercising it), the human faculty of discernment between truth and falsehood, right and wrong, is thus at the service of that task, the task of discerning, knowing and conveying reality against non-reality
    - hence human's intrinsic need for reason with regards to truth and reality
     
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    eile

    eile

    Well-Known Member
    in the very act of 'describing reality as it is', in the very act of engendering a truth statement (a statement that is true, a statement that 'describes reality as it is') lies the laws of thought;

    "The laws of thought are fundamental axiomatic rules upon which rational discourse itself is often considered to be based. The formulation and clarification of such rules have a long tradition in the history of philosophy and logic. Generally they are taken as laws that guide and underlie everyone's thinking, thoughts, expressions, discussions, etc.

    According to the 1999 Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy,[1] laws of thought are laws by which or in accordance with which valid thought proceeds, or that justify valid inference, or to which all valid deduction is reducible. Laws of thought are rules that apply without exception to any subject matter of thought, etc."
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    - statements or things are true or false depending on how they relate to reality. statements that describe reality as it is are true, those that do not are false
    But nothing relates to The Reality, as there is nothing like it! Whatever statement is attributed to Truth is always encompassed by Oneness.

    - reality is reality (what is true is true) irrespective of us processing or acknowledging it;
    Indeed.

    reality is primarily object, singular,
    These are meaningless human thought-concepts. You cannot attach anything to The Truth. The One is above being labeled by His creation.

    - reality is knowable and ascertainable or validated through reason
    No, it is the material world that is knowable and ascertainable through reason. The only knowledge that ultimately matters is knowledge of the Divine, knowledge that can only be perceived from an un-conditioned mind.

    for in the very definition of reality or in the very act of thinking about reality and defining it, the existence of falsehood (or non-reality) is inherently assumed as a possibility
    This is why we don’t define The Reality. God is beyond concepts of good vs. evil. Falsehood and truth are dualistic notions that True Oneness transcends.

    - so while some of reality may be intuitive, self-evident (e.g 2+2=4) and cannot therefore honestly or validly be denied by anyone, reality as a whole to us is not as intuitive and self-evident or direct, and is therefore potentially mistakable to us mere humans
    This is all based on the unfounded assumption that man perceives all forms of immediate reality through the same perceptual wavelength.

    - indeed, the world or our existence (what we hold as reality or part of reality) seems chaotic and full of uncertainty and mystery, full of correct signs as well as false signs. it is a sea of conflicting voices and opinions (and feelings) oftentimes within the single self. indeed, we are not God after all (or Reality with capital r), and therefore we can fall prey to falsehood (to deception and self-deception). hence, while charting a course by discerning reality or truth from falsehood or non-reality can be hard, it deems a necessary task for the purpose of knowing and embracing truth or reality
    Indeed, we are not The Lord; but in the same vein, we are. We are a reflection of The Reality, and the convoluted and seemingly incomprehensible nature of life is a reflection of the totality of His Divine Nature.

    Once you set preconditions on reality, you are limiting yourself. Man is what man thinks about, and if you choose to perceive life from a purely rational perspective, you will miss Truth. God will always defy our ego-based notions and expectations of what is. Yes, a person who has any preconditions on reality is pride in itself, as God is the Ultimate Authority over all things.

    - the tool of reason (and our exercising it), the human faculty of discernment between truth and falsehood, right and wrong, is thus at the service of that task, the task of discerning, knowing and conveying reality against non-reality

    - hence human's intrinsic need for reason with regards to truth and reality
    Reason serves its own functions....falling in love with Truth is not one of them.
     
    eile

    eile

    Well-Known Member
    But nothing relates to The Reality, as there is nothing like it! Whatever statement is attributed to Truth is always encompassed by Oneness.



    Indeed.



    These are meaningless human thought-concepts. You cannot attach anything to The Truth. The One is above being labeled by His creation.



    No, it is the material world that is knowable and ascertainable through reason. The only knowledge that ultimately matters is knowledge of the Divine, knowledge that can only be perceived from an un-conditioned mind.



    This is why we don’t define The Reality. God is beyond concepts of good vs. evil. Falsehood and truth are dualistic notions that True Oneness transcends.



    This is all based on the unfounded assumption that man perceives all forms of immediate reality through the same perceptual wavelength.



    Indeed, we are not The Lord; but in the same vein, we are. We are a reflection of The Reality, and the convoluted and seemingly incomprehensible nature of life is a reflection of the totality of His Divine Nature.

    Once you set preconditions on reality, you are limiting yourself. Man is what man thinks about, and if you choose to perceive life from a purely rational perspective, you will miss Truth. God will always defy our ego-based notions and expectations of what is. Yes, a person who has any preconditions on reality is pride in itself, as God is the Ultimate Authority over all things.



    Reason serves its own functions....falling in love with Truth is not one of them.
    interesting. so to you, truth, reality and god are terms that cannot be known or defined, but they are the same and interchangeable, are this and that, as opposed to this and that, and this is 'simply because I feel and say so or am told so'. and when, by grace, the basic thought of your view (unknowable knowable, undefinable definable god) being contradictorily invalid miraculously makes its way down your seemingly few remaining functioning synapses (because God desires salvation for all), your system suddenly short-circuits and you then find yourself involuntarily uttering your view repeatedly in mantric form. in this case, i can only recommend someone sprinkles you with holy water followed probably by a session of exorcism
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    interesting. so to you, truth, reality and god are terms that cannot be known or defined, but they are the same and interchangeable, are this and that, as opposed to this and that, and this is 'simply because I feel and say so or am told so'. and when, by grace, the basic thought of your view (unknowable knowable, undefinable definable god) being contradictorily invalid miraculously makes its way down your seemingly few remaining functioning synapses (because God desires salvation for all), your system suddenly short-circuits and you then find yourself involuntarily uttering your view repeatedly in mantric form. in this case, i can only recommend someone sprinkles you with holy water followed probably by a session of exorcism
    Incoherent rambling. Respond to the arguments at hand, or don’t waste my time.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    Allah is the Arabian Pagan Moon God. Not the God of Abraham and all the Jewish prophets. Some people make the mistake to assume the Muslim Allah is the same as the Christian/Jewish God because Arabic-speaking Christians call God Allah. They couldn't be more wrong. For us 'Allah' is just the word for God since we were Arabized by force; in Islam 'Allah' is literally the NAME of their god. That's the difference.
     
    NewLeb

    NewLeb

    Member
    Allah is the Arabian Pagan Moon God. Not the God of Abraham and all the Jewish prophets. Some people make the mistake to assume the Muslim Allah is the same as the Christian/Jewish God because Arabic-speaking Christians call God Allah. They couldn't be more wrong. For us 'Allah' is just the word for God since we were Arabized by force; in Islam 'Allah' is literally the NAME of their god. That's the difference.
    I agree to an extent; they’re not really the same thing. Jews believe in their own tribal deity called “yaweh,” while Christians believe in a man named Jesus who they consider to be a god.

    As to Allah being a “moon god,” this is a common interpretation of Islam posited by Western orientalists (often with an agenda) who mostly don’t know what they’re talking about.
     
    Ice Tea

    Ice Tea

    Active Member
    I agree to an extent; they’re not really the same thing. Jews believe in their own tribal deity called “yaweh,” while Christians believe in a man named Jesus who they consider to be a god.

    As to Allah being a “moon god,” this is a common interpretation of Islam posited by Western orientalists (often with an agenda) who mostly don’t know what they’re talking about.
    Yhwh is God as a whole, the Triune.




    "In the end, there is one God who exists in three persons, and those three persons share the one divine name of YHWH. That is the name of the Father, but it is also the name of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three persons, but one God with one Holy Name. The Father, therefore, is not given a separate personal name."
     
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