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Why did FPM hit the streets yesterday ? and what was achieved ?

Do you still trust FPM's moves & decisions ?

  • Yes

  • No

  • I dont know


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Jo

Administrator
Master Penguin
Brace yourselves, this is a long post

Lots of members here and actually a big portion of the Lebanese population didn't know or understand what was yesterday's movement for.

What I will try to do here, is explain as simply as possible, the why and the results of this movement.

Since the 1990 Taef agreement, the decision-making "solta siyesiye" in the country has been divided between 3 main offices: The President of the Republic (Christians), The Prime Minister (Sunni) and the Speaker of the Parliament (Shia).

While the President of the Republic's power have greatly diminished, he still holds some leverage in the decision-making process.

Through the years (after 1990) the President of the Republic office has been occupied by weak presidents (in terms of number of MPs supporting him in parliament). Without going into details here, lets fast forward that to 2013.

In 2013, the Parliament term ended and, as we all know, the parliament renewed its own mandate twice already denying the Lebanese people the only right they had left to chose their representatives.

In 2014, Michel Sleiman's term ended and also the unconstitutional and illegitimate self-mandated parliament could not elect a new president. An important role in the decision making has been lost here. For the ones who dont know, each major decision must be accepted by the 3 main constituencies in the country (the Christians represented by the President, the Sunnis represented by the PM and the Shias represented by the Parliament Speaker). This is a core covenant, "3eref" as we like to call it, and Lebanese governments have been respecting this "3eref" since Independence and anytime someone tried not to abide by it, it caused major unrest and even wars.

In order to keep the country "on its feet" and not paralyze the whole process, all political parties in the government agreed to some terms, so what lead to this FPM movement ?

Here are some facts explaining these terms and some major events leading to this FPM movement:

1. For each law to pass, and in the absence of the President, all the ministers should approve it (especially the Christians ones who are representing the Christians vote here instead of the President)

2. Many times before, FPM-proposed laws or decisions were stopped because 1 single minister (e.g. Boutros Harb and others) objected to them for no compelling reason other than to deny FPM credit for good projects or decisions.

3. FPM and ministers from other parties wanted a say in what gets included in the agenda, arguing that this is a constitutional prerogative of the President that they now represent. Salam (prodded by FM) refused and insisted that he alone controls the agenda in every cabinet session thus adding to his own vast powers as PM those of the President and becoming practically a sole decision maker in the executive branch... almost a dictator.

4. Many issues important to FPM (and other parties like Kataeb) were refused to be discussed even by Salam (again at the insistence and prodding of FM).

5. In February, Saad Hariri proposed to Aoun appointing a candidate Saad nominated as ISF Chief (a position reserved for Sunnis). Aoun accepted on the condition that an Army Chief is also appointed at the same time. They both agreed and took their proposal to all other concerned parties and no one objected and they all (yes Junblat and Berri included) gave tacit approval.

6. When the term of the acting ISF chief was about to expire, FM tried to wiggle their way through and get a new ISF Chief appointed without appointing an Army Chief. They used their usual deceiving ways arguing that there is still plenty of time (until September) to appoint an Army Chief but they needed to appoint the ISF Chief now as the acting Chief's term is about to expire. Needless to say, FPM ministers objected and insisted that all security and armed forces be appointed at the same time in one package. FM not being able to get their way, they asked Salam to postpone all appointments.

7. FM asked the Interior Minister to issue a simple executive order extending the term of the acting ISF Chief and bypass the whole Cabinet. He did. It was meant to set a precedent to having the Defense Minister extending the term of Kahwagi the Army Chief for the second time. By this they want to sneakily accomplish a double blow to FPM:
- Removing General Roukoz from the picture who has to retire in October unless appointed as Army Chief
- Keeping Kahwagi as a continued threat to Aoun in the presidential race.

8. FPM, recognizing the childish conspiracy and silly FM's ways of deception (pun intended), struck back by declaring that they will not let any other decision or decree pass in the Cabinet unless the security appointments are dealt with first. This created an impasse within the Cabinet.

9. Since, FM and Salam changed their mind about how decisions inside the Cabinet should or can be taken. Now they claim that they can take any decision by a simple majority vote which they more than control. To set a precedent that they can proceed this way they chose one single small issue that can make FPM look bad (the subsidies to the truckers to export agricultural and other products) and passed it by a simple majority over FPM's objections. And now they can point at FPM (as exhibited here in the forum by some FMers and F14 supporters) as wanting to paralyze the country thinking that they can embarrass FPM into submission and capitulation. This is just a dry test run to later pass anything they want (including armed forces appointments) by a simple majority... basically running the country as a. dictatorship as they always did since their collaboration with the Syrian occupiers.

10. FPM struck back with very measured demos to stop this slippery course and show them that if they want to try to force things down our throats another time like they got used to doing, especially that they think FPM's allies are now either consumed by other concerns or not willing to stand by it, FPM can also go down that slippery and dangerous road all by itself.

What was achieved yesterday ?


I will just list some news/headlines here and leave the rest to time:

1. Yesterday between the measured demos and the confrontation of the ministers they accomplished the first goal. Forcing Salam and FM to back down and agree not to try to pass decrees without unanimous consent.

2. جعجع:- ندعو إلى إنشاء لواء من أنصار الجيش اللبناني يتألف من أبناء القرى الحدودية في البقاع الراغبين في حراسة بلداتهم
- لم يعد هناك أي مبرر للتأخر في إقرار قانون جديد للانتخابات النيابية كما إقرار قانون استعادة الجنسية

3. Sleiman Frangieh: "We are with you," the Marada leader said, addressing Aoun, "but you have to coordinate stances with us... We only disagree on the manner, not the stances."

Why doesn't the FPM resign ?

FPM is in a confrontation mode to accomplish specific things and not trying to score political points by being principled. Remaining in government provides FPM with additional tools in their confrontation as proven yesterday by the confrontation inside the cabinet.

A side note:

For the demos, FPM started the day before at night for two reasons. First not to prevent people to get to their work and do their business and deny its opponents the opportunity to turn people against FPM and its movement. Second, not to make FPMers leave their work to participate and create problems for them with their employers. This is why FPM said "measured moves" enough to accomplish the immediate goal. But FPM is ready to and can escalate much much more if need be.


Disclaimer: I am not an FPM spokesman and this is not an official FPM Statement
 
Last edited:

Amirkani

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Jo, many many more goals achieved. Enough to see many old activists who were sitting on the sidelines and even battling it out with other FPMers lead the demos again and voluntarily offer themselves again to be beaten :)
 

HannaTheCrusader

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Brace yourselves, this is a long post

Lots of members here and actually a big portion of the Lebanese population didn't know or understand what was yesterday's movement for.

What I will try to do here, is explain as simply as possible, the why and the results of this movement.

Since the 1990 Taef agreement, the decision-making "solta siyesiye" in the country has been divided between 3 main offices: The President of the Republic (Christians), The Prime Minister (Sunni) and the Speaker of the Parliament (Shia).

While the President of the Republic's power have greatly diminished, he still holds some leverage in the decision-making process.

Through the years (after 1990) the President of the Republic office has been occupied by weak presidents (in terms of number of MPs supporting him in parliament). Without going into details here, lets fast forward that to 2013.

In 2013, the Parliament term ended and, as we all know, the parliament renewed its own mandate twice already denying the Lebanese people the only right they had left to chose their representatives.

In 2014, Michel Sleiman's term ended and also the unconstitutional and illegitimate self-mandated parliament could not elect a new president. An important role in the decision making has been lost here. For the ones who dont know, each major decision must be accepted by the 3 main constituencies in the country (the Christians represented by the President, the Sunnis represented by the PM and the Shias represented by the Parliament Speaker). This is a core covenant, "3eref" as we like to call it, and Lebanese governments have been respecting this "3eref" since Independence and anytime someone tried not to abide by it, it caused major unrest and even wars.

In order to keep the country "on its feet" and not paralyze the whole process, all political parties in the government agreed to some terms, so what lead to this FPM movement ?

Here are some facts explaining these terms and some major events leading to this FPM movement:

1. For each law to pass, and in the absence of the President, all the ministers should approve it (especially the Christians ones who are representing the Christians vote here instead of the President)

2. Many times before, FPM-proposed laws or decisions were stopped because 1 single minister (e.g. Boutros Harb and others) objected to them for no compelling reason other than to deny FPM credit for good projects or decisions.

3. FPM and ministers from other parties wanted a say in what gets included in the agenda, arguing that this is a constitutional prerogative of the President that they now represent. Salam (prodded by FM) refused and insisted that he alone controls the agenda in every cabinet session thus adding to his own vast powers as PM those of the President and becoming practically a sole decision maker in the executive branch... almost a dictator.

4. Many issues important to FPM (and other parties like Kataeb) were refused to be discussed even by Salam (again at the insistence and prodding of FM).

5. In February, Saad Hariri proposed to Aoun appointing a candidate Saad nominated as ISF Chief (a position reserved for Sunnis). Aoun accepted on the condition that an Army Chief is also appointed at the same time. They both agreed and took their proposal to all other concerned parties and no one objected and they all (yes Junblat and Berri included) gave tacit approval.

6. When the term of the acting ISF chief was about to expire, FM tried to wiggle their way through and get a new ISF Chief appointed without appointing an Army Chief. They used their usual deceiving ways arguing that there is still plenty of time (until September) to appoint an Army Chief but they needed to appoint the ISF Chief now as the acting Chief's term is about to expire. Needless to say, FPM ministers objected and insisted that all security and armed forces be appointed at the same time in one package. FM not being able to get their way, they asked Salam to postpone all appointments.

7. FM asked the Interior Minister to issue a simple executive order extending the term of the acting ISF Chief and bypass the whole Cabinet. He did. It was meant to set a precedent to having the Defense Minister extending the term of Kahwagi the Army Chief for the second time. By this they want to sneakily accomplish a double blow to FPM:
- Removing General Roukoz from the picture who has to retire in October unless appointed as Army Chief
- Keeping Kahwagi as a continued threat to Aoun in the presidential race.

8. FPM, recognizing the childish conspiracy and silly FM's ways of deception (pun intended), struck back by declaring that they will not let any other decision or decree pass in the Cabinet unless the security appointments are dealt with first. This created an impasse within the Cabinet. @loubnaniTO

9. Since, FM and Salam changed their mind about how decisions inside the Cabinet should or can be taken. Now they claim that they can take any decision by a simple majority vote which they more than control. To set a precedent that they can proceed this way they chose one single small issue that can make FPM look bad (the subsidies to the truckers to export agricultural and other products) and passed it by a simple majority over FPM's objections. And now they can point at FPM (as exhibited here in the forum by some FMers and F14 supporters) as wanting to paralyze the country thinking that they can embarrass FPM into submission and capitulation. This is just a dry test run to later pass anything they want (including armed forces appointments) by a simple majority... basically running the country as a. dictatorship as they always did since their collaboration with the Syrian occupiers.

10. FPM struck back with very measured demos to stop this slippery course and show them that if they want to try to force things down our throats another time like they got used to doing, especially that they think FPM's allies are now either consumed by other concerns or not willing to stand by it, FPM can also go down that slippery and dangerous road all by itself.

What was achieved yesterday ?


I will just list some news/headlines here and leave the rest to time:

1. Yesterday between the measured demos and the confrontation of the ministers they accomplished the first goal. Forcing Salam and FM to back down and agree not to try to pass decrees without unanimous consent.

2. جعجع:- ندعو إلى إنشاء لواء من أنصار الجيش اللبناني يتألف من أبناء القرى الحدودية في البقاع الراغبين في حراسة بلداتهم
- لم يعد هناك أي مبرر للتأخر في إقرار قانون جديد للانتخابات النيابية كما إقرار قانون استعادة الجنسية

3. Sleiman Frangieh: "We are with you," the Marada leader said, addressing Aoun, "but you have to coordinate stances with us... We only disagree on the manner, not the stances."

Why doesn't the FPM resign ? @loubnaniTO

FPM is in a confrontation mode to accomplish specific things and not trying to score political points by being principled. Remaining in government provides FPM with additional tools in their confrontation as proven yesterday by the confrontation inside the cabinet.

A side note:

For the demos, FPM started the day before at night for two reasons. First not to prevent people to get to their work and do their business and deny its opponents the opportunity to turn people against FPM and its movement. Second, not to make FPMers leave their work to participate and create problems for them with their employers. This is why FPM said "measured moves" enough to accomplish the immediate goal. But FPM is ready to and can escalate much much more if need be.


Disclaimer: I am not an FPM spokesman and this is not an official FPM Statement

Great analysis
To the point
 

JB81

Legendary Member
Does a unanimous vote effect Kahwaji's term extension? In a sense, if FPM ministers refuse the extension, Kahwaji service should be over.
 

Amirkani

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Does a unanimous vote effect Kahwaji's term extension? In a sense, if FPM ministers refuse the extension, Kahwaji service should be over.
Read the defense minister's statement today. He no longer is talking about extending Kahwagi's term. He is trying though a new trick: that he has the right to "appoint" a new Army Commander. LOL
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Brace yourselves, this is a long post

Lots of members here and actually a big portion of the Lebanese population didn't know or understand what was yesterday's movement for.

What I will try to do here, is explain as simply as possible, the why and the results of this movement.

Since the 1990 Taef agreement, the decision-making "solta siyesiye" in the country has been divided between 3 main offices: The President of the Republic (Christians), The Prime Minister (Sunni) and the Speaker of the Parliament (Shia).

While the President of the Republic's power have greatly diminished, he still holds some leverage in the decision-making process.

Through the years (after 1990) the President of the Republic office has been occupied by weak presidents (in terms of number of MPs supporting him in parliament). Without going into details here, lets fast forward that to 2013.

In 2013, the Parliament term ended and, as we all know, the parliament renewed its own mandate twice already denying the Lebanese people the only right they had left to chose their representatives.

In 2014, Michel Sleiman's term ended and also the unconstitutional and illegitimate self-mandated parliament could not elect a new president. An important role in the decision making has been lost here. For the ones who dont know, each major decision must be accepted by the 3 main constituencies in the country (the Christians represented by the President, the Sunnis represented by the PM and the Shias represented by the Parliament Speaker). This is a core covenant, "3eref" as we like to call it, and Lebanese governments have been respecting this "3eref" since Independence and anytime someone tried not to abide by it, it caused major unrest and even wars.

In order to keep the country "on its feet" and not paralyze the whole process, all political parties in the government agreed to some terms, so what lead to this FPM movement ?

Here are some facts explaining these terms and some major events leading to this FPM movement:

1. For each law to pass, and in the absence of the President, all the ministers should approve it (especially the Christians ones who are representing the Christians vote here instead of the President)

2. Many times before, FPM-proposed laws or decisions were stopped because 1 single minister (e.g. Boutros Harb and others) objected to them for no compelling reason other than to deny FPM credit for good projects or decisions.

3. FPM and ministers from other parties wanted a say in what gets included in the agenda, arguing that this is a constitutional prerogative of the President that they now represent. Salam (prodded by FM) refused and insisted that he alone controls the agenda in every cabinet session thus adding to his own vast powers as PM those of the President and becoming practically a sole decision maker in the executive branch... almost a dictator.

4. Many issues important to FPM (and other parties like Kataeb) were refused to be discussed even by Salam (again at the insistence and prodding of FM).

5. In February, Saad Hariri proposed to Aoun appointing a candidate Saad nominated as ISF Chief (a position reserved for Sunnis). Aoun accepted on the condition that an Army Chief is also appointed at the same time. They both agreed and took their proposal to all other concerned parties and no one objected and they all (yes Junblat and Berri included) gave tacit approval.

6. When the term of the acting ISF chief was about to expire, FM tried to wiggle their way through and get a new ISF Chief appointed without appointing an Army Chief. They used their usual deceiving ways arguing that there is still plenty of time (until September) to appoint an Army Chief but they needed to appoint the ISF Chief now as the acting Chief's term is about to expire. Needless to say, FPM ministers objected and insisted that all security and armed forces be appointed at the same time in one package. FM not being able to get their way, they asked Salam to postpone all appointments.

7. FM asked the Interior Minister to issue a simple executive order extending the term of the acting ISF Chief and bypass the whole Cabinet. He did. It was meant to set a precedent to having the Defense Minister extending the term of Kahwagi the Army Chief for the second time. By this they want to sneakily accomplish a double blow to FPM:
- Removing General Roukoz from the picture who has to retire in October unless appointed as Army Chief
- Keeping Kahwagi as a continued threat to Aoun in the presidential race.

8. FPM, recognizing the childish conspiracy and silly FM's ways of deception (pun intended), struck back by declaring that they will not let any other decision or decree pass in the Cabinet unless the security appointments are dealt with first. This created an impasse within the Cabinet. @loubnaniTO

9. Since, FM and Salam changed their mind about how decisions inside the Cabinet should or can be taken. Now they claim that they can take any decision by a simple majority vote which they more than control. To set a precedent that they can proceed this way they chose one single small issue that can make FPM look bad (the subsidies to the truckers to export agricultural and other products) and passed it by a simple majority over FPM's objections. And now they can point at FPM (as exhibited here in the forum by some FMers and F14 supporters) as wanting to paralyze the country thinking that they can embarrass FPM into submission and capitulation. This is just a dry test run to later pass anything they want (including armed forces appointments) by a simple majority... basically running the country as a. dictatorship as they always did since their collaboration with the Syrian occupiers.

10. FPM struck back with very measured demos to stop this slippery course and show them that if they want to try to force things down our throats another time like they got used to doing, especially that they think FPM's allies are now either consumed by other concerns or not willing to stand by it, FPM can also go down that slippery and dangerous road all by itself.

What was achieved yesterday ?


I will just list some news/headlines here and leave the rest to time:

1. Yesterday between the measured demos and the confrontation of the ministers they accomplished the first goal. Forcing Salam and FM to back down and agree not to try to pass decrees without unanimous consent.

2. جعجع:- ندعو إلى إنشاء لواء من أنصار الجيش اللبناني يتألف من أبناء القرى الحدودية في البقاع الراغبين في حراسة بلداتهم
- لم يعد هناك أي مبرر للتأخر في إقرار قانون جديد للانتخابات النيابية كما إقرار قانون استعادة الجنسية

3. Sleiman Frangieh: "We are with you," the Marada leader said, addressing Aoun, "but you have to coordinate stances with us... We only disagree on the manner, not the stances."

Why doesn't the FPM resign ? @loubnaniTO

FPM is in a confrontation mode to accomplish specific things and not trying to score political points by being principled. Remaining in government provides FPM with additional tools in their confrontation as proven yesterday by the confrontation inside the cabinet.

A side note:

For the demos, FPM started the day before at night for two reasons. First not to prevent people to get to their work and do their business and deny its opponents the opportunity to turn people against FPM and its movement. Second, not to make FPMers leave their work to participate and create problems for them with their employers. This is why FPM said "measured moves" enough to accomplish the immediate goal. But FPM is ready to and can escalate much much more if need be.


Disclaimer: I am not an FPM spokesman and this is not an official FPM Statement

Thanks @Jo for this comprehensive post. Very helpful.
 

Indie

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Actually, it is a shame you are not the spokesman. Most eloquent and clear articulation of the issue I have read / heard!

I second this. I was seriously confused about the whole thing until reading @Jo's post.
 

lebanese1

Legendary Member
Read the defense minister's statement today. He no longer is talking about extending Kahwagi's term. He is trying though a new trick: that he has the right to "appoint" a new Army Commander. LOL

بالنسبة لقيادة الجيش، في هذه الأوقات التي يمر بها البلد مركز قيادة الجيش مركز حساس ومن أهم المراكز. إذا أردنا أو لم نرد، العملية سياسية أكثر منها عملية عسكرية. أنا كوزير دفاع من واجبي مراجعة كل الزعماء السياسيين وأخذ رأيهم قبل أن أطرح على مجلس الوزراء بعض الأسماء للتعيين. إذا لم يحصل اتفاق في مجلس الوزراء على التعيين، عندها يحق لوزير الدفاع تبعا لقانون الدفاع أن يعين من يريد".

Lebanon News - ????? ????? - -
 

Jo

Administrator
Master Penguin
Does a unanimous vote effect Kahwaji's term extension? In a sense, if FPM ministers refuse the extension, Kahwaji service should be over.

Yes they can but as you saw (and they saw) yesterday, every move they make has its consequence. Its a dangerous game being played here.

Every single step will be well calculated from now on, from both sides.
 

CitizenOfTheRepublic

Legendary Member
[...]Lots of members here and actually a big portion of the Lebanese population didn't know or understand what was yesterday's movement for.
[...]
Disclaimer: I am not an FPM spokesman and this is not an official FPM Statement
I think this statement sadly points to the pathetic state of the FPM PR machine. Seriously, they let FM media wa tawbi3iha dictate the discourse... Keno etdeya2o nafsiyan law fassaroowa mazbout lal cha3eb?
 

Bandar

Well-Known Member
Orange Room Supporter
Just a few questions for FPM'ers:

1. Why do you believe that the C&R bloc, which has ~30 Christian MP's out of 64, has the right to decide unilaterally who becomes president and commander of the LAF?

2. If the top three posts (Pres, PM, Speaker) ought to be elected by their respective communities, what do you call the government of Najib Mikati? Was Mikati the candidate supported by the majority of Sunnis? Are the accusations leveled against the FM in the OP of this thread, if they are true, as bad as the deployment of a militia in 2011 to overthrow a government?

3. After May 7, black shirts, one way tickets, dozens of assassinations, and the accusation that all Sunnis support da3esh, do you expect March 14 to treat you any differently than the way described in OP? When Tamam Salam is accused of "da3esh politics" by Aoun's son-in-law, and FPM partisans regularly call for genocide in Tripoli, do you expect March 14 to play politics as if they are living in Belgium or Germany?

Thank you.
 

Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Just a few questions for FPM'ers:



Thank you.

On 2. and 3. you have a serious chronological problem (and a bit of exaggeration too).

On 1., I will remind you that the entire parliament is illegal today, given that it extended itself. Nevertheless, who has the majority? Let the 64 MPs vote and see who gets the most votes...
 
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